devel August 2008

devel@lists.fedoraproject.org

290 participants
297 discussions

Now koji down?
by KaiGai Kohei 15 Aug '08

15 Aug '08

It seems to me now Koji down. http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/ -- OSS Platform Development Division, NEC KaiGai Kohei <kaigai(a)ak.jp.nec.com>

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Important infrastructure announcement
by Paul W. Frields 15 Aug '08

15 Aug '08

The Fedora Infrastructure team is currently investigating an issue in the infrastructure systems. That process may result in service outages, for which we apologize in advance. We're still assessing the end-user impact of the situation, but as a precaution, we recommend you not download or update any additional packages on your Fedora systems. We'll share updates as we develop more information. Those updates will be published here on the public fedora-announce-list: https://redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-announce-list Thanks for your patience as we continue working on this. -- Paul W. Frields gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://paul.frields.org/ - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -- fedora-announce-list mailing list fedora-announce-list(a)redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-announce-list

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Bodhi down?
by Jon Ciesla 15 Aug '08

15 Aug '08

Bodhi gives me a 503. Pkgdb and FAS are fine. -Jon -- novus ordo absurdum

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Important infrastructure announcement
by Paul W. Frields 15 Aug '08

15 Aug '08

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Need help making syslog-ng, rsyslog, and sysklogd not conflict
by Douglas E. Warner 14 Aug '08

14 Aug '08

I've been sitting on an update to syslog-ng for quite awhile now because I haven't been able to make syslog-ng compatible with simultaneous installations of rsyslog or sysklogd (RHEL). The root of the problem is that currently you can't install syslog-ng along side of either of the other two syslog providers since both packages installs their own logrotate files that rotate the same log files resulting in double log rotation. I've tried updating my syslog-ng package to include the logrotate file of each of the other packages, but this still conflicts on RHEL-based boxes and when sysklogd gets an update, syslog-ng gets silently removed (RPM does it without reporting that it happened or yum saying it will happen). Any ideas how I can make these packages installable at the same time? -Doug Sources: https://rpm.silfreed.net:8002/file/tip/syslog-ng/ Packages: http://www.silfreed.net/download/repo/packages/syslog-ng/ (syslog-ng 2.0.9-3 is the latest) Repo release files: http://www.silfreed.net/download/repo/packages/silfreednet-release/

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Default Groups, Default Packages, CD Sets and DVD Size
by Jeroen van Meeuwen 14 Aug '08

14 Aug '08

Hi there, there's a number of issues which you may or may not agree with, and are very real concerns. I'll first try to explain what the issue is; The CD sets in Fedora 10 Alpha, but also Fedora 8 and 9 Re-Spins, require all discs in order to be installed. I say installed, but what I really mean is next, next, next, finish. Eg., this includes the "Office and Productivity" shortcut to the office, games and sound-and-video comps groups of packages. This problem may need a little more detailed description of 1) CD sets are composed, and 2) how the installation procedures selects groups/packages to install -in a default install. FWIW, when I use the term "default install" in this email, it defines "next, next, finish" without checking or unchecking any package or group related settings. Also, FWIW, I'm not putting in all the details in composing- and installing-logic, so that only the bare flow of logic related to the problem set forth remains (or at least I'm attempting to do so). == The compose == Compose tools get input via a kickstart package manifest, which basically describes what groups and packages should be available during the installation. It selects all the relevant groups and packages, resolves the dependencies (inclusive or exclusive -see PS.), puts these in a tree and may or may not create a DVD from that tree. In the case of CD sets however, the packages need to be split over multiple discs and here's how that works (the process is called package ordering for those of you who didn't know that already): From a list of groups, the compose tools first select @core and @base since these are most commonly (e.g. "always") installed. It resolves dependencies for the packages selected (e.g. the mandatory and default packages in the groups @core and @base). The transaction is ordered and the order in which yum will want to install the packages is spit out. Then, another set of groups is selected, depsolved, ordered is if it were for a real transaction, and spit out in the correct order. This continues until all groups the compose tool knows about are selected and spit out, and the package ordering process will then spit out "the remainder of packages". Note that the next generation of compose tools is going to change this package ordering process to match the behavior of the installation procedure, but I'll continue with more about that later. == The installation procedure == By the time the installation procedure has gained the necessary input wrt. which packages to install, it has also selected a number of default groups (as well as "Office and Productivity" when performing a default installation). For this purpose, it uses the "default" (True/False) attribute in the available -possibly aggregated from multiple repositories, but not in this case- comps.xml. Given no additional input during the default installation, these are the groups selected to be installed[1] (from today's x86_64 rawhide): -> office -> admin-tools -> editors -> input-methods -> fonts -> text-internet -> gnome-desktop -> core -> base -> hardware-support -> games -> java -> base-x -> graphics -> dial-up -> printing -> sound-and-video -> graphical-internet Resulting in a required RPM payload (on the media) of 2.88 GB, using exclusive dependency resolving. 2.88 GB in RPMs spans 5 CDs. This means, that a default installation of Fedora Rawhide today, when using CDs, would require 5 discs minimum. == However == However, the default installation requires all 7 CDs, because of how the compose tools resolve dependencies (inclusive) during the compose of the media, and pull in more then is minimally required to complete the actual transaction of a default installation. The compose tools do so for good reason: - one cannot know what package is the user-preferred package for any given required capability (eg. for fictive capability 'web-client', there's firefox, iceweasel, elinks, wget, curl, emacs, emacs, emacs, foo, bar and baz) - one cannot predict on what installed system one is performing an upgrade, and to be able to close the transaction certain considerations must be met justifying the need for inclusive dependency resolving when composing the media (set) or installation tree. - it makes the released media apply to N+X use-cases where the package set or transaction payload during the installation is controlled in a more granular fashion then the selection dialogs allow (by means of a kickstart package manifest maybe?), which I guess applies more to businesses or advanced users using Fedora then it does to Joe Average users. Basically what I'm saying is that the 2.88 GB is spread over more then the minimal amount of discs it would fit on, since the complete package payload when using inclusive dependency resolving grows to 3.66 GB, or 7 discs. So, the compose process spits out 7 discs, each of which contain a part of the 2.88 GB sized RPM payload needed for a default installation. == Next Generation of Package Ordering == So, what package ordering is going to do -instead of having a static list of groups to add to a transaction, resolve, spit out the packages- is use the "default" parameter to groups in comps.xml as well (and then instead of exclusive dependency resolving like it does now, move to inclusive dependency resolving as well). This makes the "which packages and groups are in a default installation" a little less hard to maintain and the package ordering will almost automagically match up with comps.xml (of which the installation procedure also uses the default parameter to groups!) == DVD and Sizes == This leads me to another concern which may or may not be an immediate issue but requires attention from those in the decision making chain as well as generally interested people; the size of the DVD ISO is getting to it's maximum allowed size (just under 4GB for those who use FAT systems as their downloaded data partition), providing just a default (eg. not including anything in addition to the default). == Advise needed == There's several ways this can be solved, but I'm not sure what is the most advisable (some are not feasible I'm sure, I'm just brainstorming here): 1) reduce the number of mandatory and default packages per group in comps.xml 2) reduce the number of groups in comps.xml that have "default" set to True 3) Revisit how comps is formatted; Example: Keep the "default" for compose decisions, but add an "install" attribute for installation decision making. Install set to True may require default set to True as well for the group to even be included on the media. 4) Split the packages that are mandatory or default in comps groups, into smaller packages providing what the group needs and another set of smaller packages belonging to the group as to reduce the number of dependencies needing to be met when the compose or installation procedure selects a group. See also PS2. 5) Or, compared to 4, revisit the Requires in mandatory and default packages and the Provides in the packages that provide the required capabilities so that it abstracts from the requires/provides matching with too many other packages (related to the inclusive dependency resolving which will then make for a thinner RPM payload on the composed media) 6) Have the compose tools as well as the installation procedures not depend on the default attribute to groups anymore, at all. Thank you very much for reading this message so far, and please don't hesitate to ask any questions if I wasn't clear enough in how this works (though I also hope I didn't overdo it for those who already knew) or make a remark or two when you think I'm wrong about something ;-) Ideas and insight on the topic very much appreciated, Kind regards, Jeroen van Meeuwen -kanarip PS. Inclusive dependency resolving is grabbing _all_ packages that provide a required capability. Exclusive dependency resolving is grabbing the one best fit (this is YUM dependency resolving). I'm taking a few shortcuts here but I hope that's OK. PS2. Selecting all 18 default groups in rawhide results in 79 mandatory packages, 302 default packages, and (after depsolving) 1386 packages in total, being a 3.66 GB payload [1] the find-default-groups.py run against a rawhide yum configuration [jmeeuwen@ghandalf scripts]$ ./find-default-groups.py -c ../unity/conf/conf.d/revisor-rawhide-x86_64-respin.conf -r Default groups: -> office -> admin-tools -> editors -> input-methods -> fonts -> text-internet -> gnome-desktop -> core -> base -> hardware-support -> games -> java -> base-x -> graphics -> dial-up -> printing -> sound-and-video -> graphical-internet 3.66 GB (3934874324 archive_size) 79 mandatory packages, 302 default packages, 1386 packages in total (after depsolving) The actual script can be found at https://fedorahosted.org/revisor/browser/scripts/find-default-groups.py

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Problem enabling new language on gdm language selection list
by Rahul Bhalerao 14 Aug '08

14 Aug '08

For adding a language on gdm's login screen, apart from having a locale file, few translations and required fonts, it is required that language is recognized by fontconfig. To make a fontconfig recognize the language, a related lang.orth file is required. With my experiment on this, I think there is also need to add an entry to fcfreetype.c of fontconfig and related language code entry in ttnameid.h of freetype2. After making all these changes the language is listed in the gdm's list. But this has a problem, as the entries of language code in ttnameid.h are MS and MAC codes for these languages and there are languages that do not have these codes but are included in iso639-2 language codes. Thus my question is, how much important is it to have an entry for the language in the file fcfreetype.c of fontconfig and related entry in the header file ttnameid.h of freetype2? And what is to be done for the language that does not have MS or MAC code? Is it possible to use our own codes? Can anyone please help resolving this? -- Rahul. http://b.rahul.pm.googlepages.com/home - http://rahulpmb.blogspot.com - http://samadiyami.blogspot.com - http://mazikavita.blogspot.com

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Bodhi/koji issues?
by Jon Ciesla 14 Aug '08

14 Aug '08

Any update on the koji outage or the bodhi wierdness (See bodhi ticket 221)? Thanks, Jon -- novus ordo absurdum

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iLBC codec legal status
by Peter Lemenkov 14 Aug '08

14 Aug '08

Hello All! ILBC is a low-bitrate codec used in many OSS and commerciall applications. However its legal status isn't clear at least for me. Codec itself distributed in opensource form, but no publically available tarball available exists. Instead of this, sources of reference implementation can be accessed as an appendix to RFC 3951: http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3951.txt Someone already extracted source from this RFC, and extracted sources available as 3rd party library in many OSS voip projects, for example: http://download.savannah.nongnu.org/releases/linphone/1.3.x/source/ilbc-rfc… The source has no explicit license but every file in tarball contains the following header: ================================= /****************************************************************** iLBC Speech Coder ANSI-C Source Code iLBC_encode.h Copyright (C) The Internet Society (2004). All Rights Reserved. ******************************************************************/ ================================= The RFC itself contains the following license banner: ================================= Full Copyright Statement Copyright (C) The Internet Society (2004). This document is subject to the rights, licenses and restrictions contained in BCP 78, and except as set forth therein, the authors retain all their rights. This document and the information contained herein are provided on an "AS IS" basis and THE CONTRIBUTOR, THE ORGANIZATION HE/SHE REPRESENTS OR IS SPONSORED BY (IF ANY), THE INTERNET SOCIETY AND THE INTERNET ENGINEERING TASK FORCE DISCLAIM ALL WARRANTIES, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO ANY WARRANTY THAT THE USE OF THE INFORMATION HEREIN WILL NOT INFRINGE ANY RIGHTS OR ANY IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. Intellectual Property The IETF takes no position regarding the validity or scope of any Intellectual Property Rights or other rights that might be claimed to pertain to the implementation or use of the technology described in this document or the extent to which any license under such rights might or might not be available; nor does it represent that it has made any independent effort to identify any such rights. Information on the IETF's procedures with respect to rights in IETF Documents can be found in BCP 78 and BCP 79. Copies of IPR disclosures made to the IETF Secretariat and any assurances of licenses to be made available, or the result of an attempt made to obtain a general license or permission for the use of such proprietary rights by implementers or users of this specification can be obtained from the IETF on-line IPR repository at http://www.ietf.org/ipr. The IETF invites any interested party to bring to its attention any copyrights, patents or patent applications, or other proprietary rights that may cover technology that may be required to implement this standard. Please address the information to the IETF at ietf- ipr(a)ietf.org. ================================= At the iLBC site ( http://ilbcfreeware.org/ ) they mention that this codec is FREE (meaning that no fee required), but under the following license: http://ilbcfreeware.org/documentation/gips_iLBClicense.pdf ======================= ll use of the Original Code (GIPS iLBC , and code provided by GIPS as part of any related IETF Standard or draft standard) is subject to the complete Global IP Sound iLBC Public License, IETF Standard, Limited Commercial Use (the (License"). By accessing the Original Code You agree to the License terms. PLEASE SEE THE COMPLETE LICENSE BELOW FOR ADDITIONAL TERMS. In general: - Personal, non-commercial use is generally permitted. - Commercialization is permitted with certain limitations; for example, to ensure that every iLBC decoder can decode every iLBC-encoded payload, commercial "Deployment" must comply with the applicable IETF Standard/draft, and the format of the bitstream may not be modified. - You are provided no warranty or support, and all liability is disclaimed. - You must register this license with GIPS prior to any commercial Deployment. ======================= Is it acceptable for inclusion into Fedora? If yes, then what sort of license is this? -- With best regards!

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rpath in kde packages added by cmake
by Patrice Dumas 14 Aug '08

14 Aug '08

Hello, In kchmviewer, some rpath are added, that are certainly unneeded: kchmviewer.i386: E: binary-or-shlib-defines-rpath /usr/lib/kde4/kio_msits.so ['/usr/lib', '/usr/lib/kde4/devel'] kchmviewer.i386: E: binary-or-shlib-defines-rpath /usr/bin/kchmviewer ['/usr/lib', '/usr/lib/kde4/devel'] /usr/lib is unneeded for sure and /usr/lib/kde4/devel seems to be unneeded to me too, since, at least looking at libkio.so, one has /usr/lib/kde4/devel/libkio.so -> ../../libkio.so.5 so that at runtime /usr/lib/libkio.so.5 can be used and the rpath is unnecessary (at link time it is important to use /usr/lib/kde4/devel/ since there is another library version linked with /usr/lib/libkio.so). However on http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/cmake it is advised against removing the rpaths with -DCMAKE_SKIP_RPATH:BOOL=ON. Is it relevant here? Am I doing a sound analysis? Is it a known issue? Should I use chrpath, or a cmake trick? A build with rpath removed with chrpath seems to be fine. -- Pat

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devel August 2008