6:35 p.m.
Where is glxgears in FC54T3? I just put my radeon 9250 in abgmode 8 and
think it is actually slower.
-Thanks
6:52 p.m.
On Tue, 28 Feb 2006, Louis E Garcia II wrote:
Where is glxgears in FC54T3? I just put my radeon 9250 in abgmode 8
and
think it is actually slower.
glx-utils
I have stopped using ati due to support issues. nVIDIA may have closed
source drivers, but they have at least supported everything with them.
(ATI's support with their closed source driver depends on picking the
right card.)
--
"George W. Bush -- Bringing back the Sixties one Nixon at a time."
6:57 p.m.
New subject: Recommended laptop for FC5, was: glxgears
On Tue, 2006-02-28 at 16:52 -0800, alan wrote:
On Tue, 28 Feb 2006, Louis E Garcia II wrote:
> Where is glxgears in FC54T3? I just put my radeon 9250 in abgmode 8 and
> think it is actually slower.
glx-utils
I have stopped using ati due to support issues. nVIDIA may have closed
source drivers, but they have at least supported everything with them.
(ATI's support with their closed source driver depends on picking the
right card.)
So if I was buying a new laptop sometime soonish, what chipset is best
for all this new accelerated X stuff?
ati seems to not care about Linux, and I've heard bad things about
nvidia. I don't do games, so 3D isn't that important.
Thanks for any help,
Richard.
7:43 p.m.
New subject: Recommended laptop for FC5, was: glxgears
On Tuesday 28 February 2006 05:57pm, Richard Hughes wrote:
On Tue, 2006-02-28 at 16:52 -0800, alan wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Feb 2006, Louis E Garcia II wrote:
> > Where is glxgears in FC54T3? I just put my radeon 9250 in abgmode 8 and
> > think it is actually slower.
>
> glx-utils
>
> I have stopped using ati due to support issues. nVIDIA may have closed
> source drivers, but they have at least supported everything with them.
> (ATI's support with their closed source driver depends on picking the
> right card.)
So if I was buying a new laptop sometime soonish, what chipset is best
for all this new accelerated X stuff?
Personally, I've never liked nVidia. Partly, that's because of how horribly
sucky and unstable the first 4 or 5 generations of each chip were (though,
only the first one really has any serious issues anymore, if even that). Too
many of my friends who had nVidia based cards experienced lots of system
lockups and crashes when running games (even/especially on Windows) and
simply switching to some other video card they wouldn't have any of those
problems at all. Yes, I know nVidia is much better than they used to be, but
something about them still just rubs me the wrong way a little. What can I
say, I don't really like them.
I like Matrox, but they really don't support Linux like they used to. Still,
their cards are rock solid and run quite well. I have lots of success with
3D acceleration of those (I don't have any Parhelia level stuff, for which
there is no 3D acceleration support that I am aware of).
I like ATI for notebooks, especially. Good performance, relatively low power
consumption and they are pretty well supported, even by ATI even for Linux.
But, nVidia's closed source drivers do seem to have the most complete
accelerated 3D support of all the manufacturers. I am considering getting an
nVidia card for a game system for my wife (we play WoW).
Oh, how I would love to see the video card makers build open source drivers.
Sigh. I'll keep dreaming.
ati seems to not care about Linux, and I've heard bad things
about
nvidia. I don't do games, so 3D isn't that important.
Well, if you don't care about 3D, then take your pick. It really doesn't
matter. :)
Almost all cards are very nicely & completely support 2D and pretty much every
card made today has pretty much equal 2D performance. Card makers
distinguish themselves on 3D.
However, with FC5, there are some cool things that can be done for "normal"
apps if you have 3D acceleration. Some new "eye-candy" items and such.
Thanks for any help,
HTH, even though it doesn't look that helpful to me.
--
Lamont R. Peterson <lamont(a)gurulabs.com>
Senior Instructor
Guru Labs, L.C. [ http://www.GuruLabs.com/ ]
GPG Key fingerprint: F98C E31A 5C4C 834A BCAB 8CB3 F980 6C97 DC0D D409
1:47 a.m.
New subject: Recommended laptop for FC5, was: glxgears
On Wed, 2006-03-01 at 00:57 +0000, Richard Hughes wrote:
On Tue, 2006-02-28 at 16:52 -0800, alan wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Feb 2006, Louis E Garcia II wrote:
>
> > Where is glxgears in FC54T3? I just put my radeon 9250 in abgmode 8 and
> > think it is actually slower.
>
> glx-utils
>
> I have stopped using ati due to support issues. nVIDIA may have closed
> source drivers, but they have at least supported everything with them.
> (ATI's support with their closed source driver depends on picking the
> right card.)
So if I was buying a new laptop sometime soonish, what chipset is best
for all this new accelerated X stuff?
ati seems to not care about Linux, and I've heard bad things about
nvidia. I don't do games, so 3D isn't that important.
go intel.. intel video is well supported and open
(David will now say that it uses the bios to do mode setting and that it
thus isn't fully open, but i'll ignore him for now :)
4:19 a.m.
New subject: Recommended laptop for FC5, was: glxgears
On Wed, 2006-03-01 at 08:47 +0100, Arjan van de Ven wrote:
On Wed, 2006-03-01 at 00:57 +0000, Richard Hughes wrote:
> On Tue, 2006-02-28 at 16:52 -0800, alan wrote:
> > On Tue, 28 Feb 2006, Louis E Garcia II wrote:
> >
> > > Where is glxgears in FC54T3? I just put my radeon 9250 in abgmode 8 and
> > > think it is actually slower.
> >
> > glx-utils
> >
> > I have stopped using ati due to support issues. nVIDIA may have closed
> > source drivers, but they have at least supported everything with them.
> > (ATI's support with their closed source driver depends on picking the
> > right card.)
>
> So if I was buying a new laptop sometime soonish, what chipset is best
> for all this new accelerated X stuff?
>
> ati seems to not care about Linux, and I've heard bad things about
> nvidia. I don't do games, so 3D isn't that important.
go intel.. intel video is well supported and open
(David will now say that it uses the bios to do mode setting and that it
thus isn't fully open, but i'll ignore him for now :)
Thanks, that sounds the most definitive.
I'll do some googling on specific chipsets to make sure.
Thanks.
Richard.
7:20 a.m.
New subject: Recommended laptop for FC5, was: glxgears
Curiously enough yesterday I was thinking about buying
a laptop myself and I got my eye on a Dell Inspiron
630m:
http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/inspn_630m?c...
It seems to ship an Intel Media Accelerator 900 with
128 MB of video memory and I think it uses the 915G
chipset family:
http://www.intel.com/design/graphics/gma900/
Is this video card well supported (as in open source
support) on the linux kernel and Xorg server? Can
anyone provide some links where I could read more
information about this? Anyone have some experience
with this laptop with Fedora or Ubuntu (mainly
Fedora)?
Richard, may be you are not interested about gaming
but if you want the latest X stuff we have been seeing
around you will need good 3D support any way.
Cheers,
-William
--- Richard Hughes <hughsient(a)gmail.com> escribió:
Thanks, that sounds the most definitive.
I'll do some googling on specific chipsets to make
sure.
Thanks.
Richard.
___________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
La mejor conexión a Internet y <b >2GB</b> extra a tu correo por $100 al mes.
http://net.yahoo.com.mx
4:33 a.m.
New subject: Recommended laptop for FC5, was: glxgears
On Wed, 2006-03-01 at 08:47 +0100, Arjan van de Ven wrote:
go intel.. intel video is well supported and open
(David will now say that it uses the bios to do mode setting and that
it thus isn't fully open, but i'll ignore him for now :)
Binary-only code is binary-only code, whether it's shipped with the
system or whether you install it yourself. Have you been overdosing on
the Intel kool-aid since you joined them? :)
Seriously -- please don't refer to Intel video as 'open' because it
misleads people. That kind of misinformation led directly to me buying
the useless Intel hardware I now have in what's supposed to become my
MythTV box. You might just as well say that nVidia is 'well supported
and open' because you can use it with the VESA 'driver'. But we digress.
Personally, if I was buying a laptop and didn't care about games, it'd
still have to be a PowerBook. You even get reliable suspend/resume
without all that ACPI crap, and we have the built-in Broadcom wireless
working in the rawhide kernels too, now. The ATI r300 cards are
well-enough supported for 2D, and 3D is sort of on the way too.
--
dwmw2
4:53 a.m.
New subject: Recommended laptop for FC5, was: glxgears
David Woodhouse writes:
The ATI r300 cards are
well-enough supported for 2D, and 3D is sort of on the way too.
Are they really supported? On my PC I still get
drmOpenDevice: Open failed
(II) RADEON(0): [drm] drmOpen failed
(EE) RADEON(0): [dri] DRIScreenInit failed. Disabling DRI.
(II) RADEON(0): Depth moves disabled by default
(II) RADEON(0): Memory manager initialized to (0,0) (1920,8191)
(II) RADEON(0): Reserved area from (0,1200) to (1920,1202)
(II) RADEON(0): Largest offscreen area available: 1920 x 6989
(II) RADEON(0): Render acceleration unsupported on Radeon 9500/9700 and newer.
(II) RADEON(0): Render acceleration disabled
Andrew.
4:55 a.m.
New subject: Recommended laptop for FC5, was: glxgears
On Wed, 2006-03-01 at 10:53 +0000, Andrew Haley wrote:
David Woodhouse writes:
>
> The ATI r300 cards are well-enough supported for 2D, and 3D is sort
> of on the way too.
Are they really supported? On my PC I still get
Yeah, 2D acceleration is OK if not perfect -- I'm slightly surprised by
the lack of RENDER accel.
3D isn't working yet and the experimental 3D support has recently been
disabled for FC5, but it's on the way.
--
dwmw2
10:09 a.m.
New subject: Recommended laptop for FC5, was: glxgears
On Wednesday, March 01, 2006 2:55 am, David Woodhouse wrote:
On Wed, 2006-03-01 at 10:53 +0000, Andrew Haley wrote:
> David Woodhouse writes:
> > The ATI r300 cards are well-enough supported for 2D, and 3D is
> > sort
> >
> > of on the way too.
>
> Are they really supported? On my PC I still get
Yeah, 2D acceleration is OK if not perfect -- I'm slightly surprised
by the lack of RENDER accel.
3D isn't working yet and the experimental 3D support has recently
been disabled for FC5, but it's on the way.
Pick your poison. With ATI chips you get open mode setting code but
very poor support for recent devices. ATI doesn't release specs so
most of the ATI driver support is reverse engineered, and support for
very recent devices is pretty buggy as a result.
With Intel chips, at least you get open 2D and 3D code developed by
people with specs. The modesetting stuff is still VBE-only
unfortunately (though Dave Airlie is working on changing that, as are
others I think), and really it's beyond Intel's control in many (most?)
cases since vendors are free to plugin whatever external interface chip
they want to the basic i9xx graphics hub whey they design their boards.
Jesse
10:12 a.m.
New subject: Recommended laptop for FC5, was: glxgears
On Wednesday, March 01, 2006 8:09 am, Jesse Barnes wrote:
Pick your poison. With ATI chips you get open mode setting code but
very poor support for recent devices. ATI doesn't release specs so
most of the ATI driver support is reverse engineered, and support for
very recent devices is pretty buggy as a result.
With Intel chips, at least you get open 2D and 3D code developed by
people with specs. The modesetting stuff is still VBE-only
unfortunately (though Dave Airlie is working on changing that, as are
others I think), and really it's beyond Intel's control in many
(most?) cases since vendors are free to plugin whatever external
interface chip they want to the basic i9xx graphics hub whey they
design their boards.
Oh, forgot to mention the implications. If you buy a recent ATI device
you get to help debug the drivers. If you buy an Intel based device
you can only set modes that the board/BIOS vendor thought of (though in
some cases you can use vbetool or somesuch to make your own modes),
which means you might have trouble plugging in arbitrary flat panels,
TVs, etc. Your choice.
Jesse
1:19 p.m.
New subject: Recommended laptop for FC5, was: glxgears
On 3/1/06, Arjan van de Ven <arjan(a)fenrus.demon.nl> wrote:
On Wed, 2006-03-01 at 00:57 +0000, Richard Hughes wrote:
> On Tue, 2006-02-28 at 16:52 -0800, alan wrote:
> > On Tue, 28 Feb 2006, Louis E Garcia II wrote:
> >
> > > Where is glxgears in FC54T3? I just put my radeon 9250 in abgmode 8 and
> > > think it is actually slower.
> >
> > glx-utils
> >
> > I have stopped using ati due to support issues. nVIDIA may have closed
> > source drivers, but they have at least supported everything with them.
> > (ATI's support with their closed source driver depends on picking the
> > right card.)
>
> So if I was buying a new laptop sometime soonish, what chipset is best
> for all this new accelerated X stuff?
>
> ati seems to not care about Linux, and I've heard bad things about
> nvidia. I don't do games, so 3D isn't that important.
go intel.. intel video is well supported and open
(David will now say that it uses the bios to do mode setting and that it
thus isn't fully open, but i'll ignore him for now :)
My own experience is that Intel should be avoided - I have to run
magic little programs setting magic little parameters to get anything
beyond plain VESA in low colors.
I bought Intel that time because I thought it was open, but low
performing. Only the latter is true, however, and native ATI/Nvidia
work better out of the box.
3D is missing with the bundled drivers, of course, but if you wanted
3D, you wouldn't go Intel anyway.
My recommendation would be NVidia - best out of the box 2D, and if you
want, the best 3D (closed source)
--
Trond Eivind Glomsrød
Oslo, Norway
5:17 p.m.
New subject: Recommended laptop for FC5, was: glxgears
Trond Eivind Glomsrød wrote:
>>So if I was buying a new laptop sometime soonish, what chipset
is best
>>for all this new accelerated X stuff?
>>
>>ati seems to not care about Linux, and I've heard bad things about
>>nvidia. I don't do games, so 3D isn't that important.
>
>go intel.. intel video is well supported and open
>(David will now say that it uses the bios to do mode setting and that it
>thus isn't fully open, but i'll ignore him for now :)
My own experience is that Intel should be avoided - I have to run
magic little programs setting magic little parameters to get anything
beyond plain VESA in low colors.
I bought Intel that time because I thought it was open, but low
performing. Only the latter is true, however, and native ATI/Nvidia
work better out of the box.
3D is missing with the bundled drivers, of course, but if you wanted
3D, you wouldn't go Intel anyway.
My recommendation would be NVidia - best out of the box 2D, and if you
want, the best 3D (closed source)
I disagree with everyone. ;o)
My recommendation, is to use Xvfb or the text console. Almost no
hardware/driver related bugs/problems, and no big concerns over
openness of the code/specs/etc. ;o)
--
Mike A. Harris * Open Source Advocate * http://mharris.ca
Proud Canadian.
9:01 a.m.
New subject: Recommended laptop for FC5, was: glxgears
On Wed, 2006-03-01 at 18:17 -0500, Mike A. Harris wrote:
I disagree with everyone. ;o)
My recommendation, is to use Xvfb or the text console. Almost no
hardware/driver related bugs/problems, and no big concerns over
openness of the code/specs/etc. ;o)
Heh. I'm hoping that www.opengraphics.org turns out to be more than just
a pipe-dream.
--
dwmw2
9:28 a.m.
New subject: Recommended laptop for FC5, was: glxgears
David Woodhouse wrote:
On Wed, 2006-03-01 at 18:17 -0500, Mike A. Harris wrote:
>I disagree with everyone. ;o)
>
>My recommendation, is to use Xvfb or the text console. Almost no
>hardware/driver related bugs/problems, and no big concerns over
>openness of the code/specs/etc. ;o)
Heh. I'm hoping that www.opengraphics.org turns out to be more than just
a pipe-dream.
I think you're pipe dreaming. ;o)
--
Mike A. Harris * Open Source Advocate * http://mharris.ca
Proud Canadian.
4:53 p.m.
New subject: Recommended laptop for FC5, was: glxgears
On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 00:57:37 +0000, Richard Hughes <hughsient(a)gmail.com> wrote:
So if I was buying a new laptop sometime soonish, what chipset is
best
for all this new accelerated X stuff?
Apropos this, what is the situation with VIA Unichrome? Mike?
IIRC, they had an open driver as a plug-in for old X, and it was
poorly written, so someone started a rewrite. Did anything come
out of it? You know, those Averatecs really look attractive...
-- Pete
5:32 p.m.
New subject: Recommended laptop for FC5, was: glxgears
On Thu, 2006-03-02 at 14:53 -0800, Pete Zaitcev wrote:
On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 00:57:37 +0000, Richard Hughes
<hughsient(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> So if I was buying a new laptop sometime soonish, what chipset is best
> for all this new accelerated X stuff?
Apropos this, what is the situation with VIA Unichrome? Mike?
IIRC, they had an open driver as a plug-in for old X, and it was
poorly written, so someone started a rewrite. Did anything come
out of it? You know, those Averatecs really look attractive...
-- Pete
I currently use an Averatec 3250, that I have had for a year and a half.
It is a nice little machine (4.4lbs) and completely suites my needs. I
currently run the via driver from www.openchrome.org, and have no video
problems with it. These drivers do have EXA support now thanks to some
excellent work by Thomas Hellström.
I will warn you that suspend to ram does not work. It is one of the VIA
chipsets that suspends properly then reboots when you hit the power
button to wake it up. There has been a kernel bugzilla open since 2.6.9.
Suspend to disk does work on and off, depending what has been done to
the kernel that night. Since this is just my mobile machine I don't
have a huge need for suspend.
Hope this helps.
Jon
6:27 p.m.
New subject: Recommended laptop for FC5, was: glxgears
Pete Zaitcev wrote:
On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 00:57:37 +0000, Richard Hughes
<hughsient(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>So if I was buying a new laptop sometime soonish, what chipset is best
>for all this new accelerated X stuff?
Apropos this, what is the situation with VIA Unichrome? Mike?
IIRC, they had an open driver as a plug-in for old X, and it was
poorly written, so someone started a rewrite. Did anything come
out of it? You know, those Averatecs really look attractive...
There are about 100 via driver forks nowadays. The original via
code, which it seems via updates once a year or so with a huge
press release. The differences in their code seem to get merged
into the X.Org via driver.
Then there is the unichrome project - a fork of that, and
openchrome, a fork of unichrome. Why so many forks? Certain
individuals don't play well with others essentially.
Which one to use? We ship the X.Org one, and never see any
bug reports, so I assume it must work well enough for FC users,
but I've never ran it personally, so don't know how stable or
reliable it really is, or what the featureset is.
I guess people probably start out using the Xorg driver, and
if it doesn't work perhaps they hop ship to one of the other 2
drivers. Hard to say because there is almost zero feedback. ;)
I'm often asked which laptop chipset one should buy, or which
laptop chipset is best supported. Here are 2 answers I generally
give, and they're dead honest, albeit a bit blunt. I say that
because sometimes people think I'm blowing them off, when I'm
really just giving the reality of things:
1) None of the video chipsets are supported "the best". Roll
a dice, you get a video chipset that has some supported
features, along with various bugs/problems to work around.
or
2) Whichever video chip works best for one's purposes after
they manually test every laptop on the market with the current
drivers, and decide which one meets their needs.
Yes, these answers suck, but they reflect reality, which also
sucks. My advice is don't buy a laptop unless you can get
by with the kernel console driver and 24 VCs. ;)
--
Mike A. Harris * Open Source Advocate * http://mharris.ca
Proud Canadian.
8:52 p.m.
New subject: Recommended laptop for FC5, was: glxgears
Mike A. Harris (mharris(a)mharris.ca) said:
Which one to use? We ship the X.Org one, and never see any
bug reports, so I assume it must work well enough for FC users,
but I've never ran it personally, so don't know how stable or
reliable it really is, or what the featureset is.
It works for me on x86_64, although switching to a VC occasionally
does odd things to the pallette. And DRI is well and truly
hosed (bug 179970).
Bill
1:42 a.m.
New subject: Recommended laptop for FC5, was: glxgears
Mike A. Harris wrote:
I'm often asked which laptop chipset one should buy, or which
laptop chipset is best supported.
It would be much easier for us if we could buy a laptop with Linux
preinstalled, which I haven't seen yet here in Croatia. I saw some
laptops with FreeDOS, but not with Linux.
BTW why Red Hat does not make some contract with some laptop
manufacturer in order to bring Red Hat or fedora to laptops? Is that
such a bad idea? I saw that Mandriva and Ubuntu made this with some
manufacturers (HP, I think) for some markets (South America, I think).
Here are 2 answers I generally
give, and they're dead honest, albeit a bit blunt. I say that
because sometimes people think I'm blowing them off, when I'm
really just giving the reality of things:
1) None of the video chipsets are supported "the best". Roll
a dice, you get a video chipset that has some supported
features, along with various bugs/problems to work around.
or
2) Whichever video chip works best for one's purposes after
they manually test every laptop on the market with the current
drivers, and decide which one meets their needs.
I use nVidia (Xelo FX5200) with closed source drivers because TV out is
well supported.
Yes, these answers suck, but they reflect reality, which also
sucks. My advice is don't buy a laptop unless you can get
by with the kernel console driver and 24 VCs. ;)
I've got an impression that IBM's are well supported on Linux:
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/MIGR-48NT8D.html
There are probably some other manufacturers as well supported, but I
didn't quite make any further research.
--
Igor Jagec
2:14 a.m.
New subject: Recommended laptop for FC5, was: glxgears
On Fri, 2006-03-03 at 08:42 +0100, Igor Jagec wrote:
It would be much easier for us if we could buy a laptop with Linux
preinstalled, which I haven't seen yet here in Croatia. I saw some
laptops with FreeDOS, but not with Linux.
BTW why Red Hat does not make some contract with some laptop
manufacturer in order to bring Red Hat or fedora to laptops? Is that
such a bad idea? I saw that Mandriva and Ubuntu made this with some
manufacturers (HP, I think) for some markets (South America, I think).
Try http://www.dell.com/linux
See what that turns up.
--
Mike Chambers
Madisonville, KY
"It's only funny until someone gets hurt, then it's hilarious!"
7:55 a.m.
New subject: Recommended laptop for FC5, was: glxgears
El vie, 03-03-2006 a las 08:42 +0100, Igor Jagec escribió:
Mike A. Harris wrote:
> I'm often asked which laptop chipset one should buy, or which
> laptop chipset is best supported.
It would be much easier for us if we could buy a laptop with Linux
preinstalled
Talking about this... has anyone tested the LinuxCertified Laptops?
[] http://linuxcertified.com/linux_laptops.html
Any comments about them?
-William
__________________________________________________
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11:21 a.m.
New subject: Recommended laptop for FC5, was: glxgears
On Thu, Mar 02, 2006 at 02:53:38PM -0800, Pete Zaitcev wrote:
Apropos this, what is the situation with VIA Unichrome? Mike?
IIRC, they had an open driver as a plug-in for old X, and it was
poorly written, so someone started a rewrite. Did anything come
out of it? You know, those Averatecs really look attractive...
My VIA unichrome 3D seems to worry pretty well now. The never open sourced
their mpeg engine because of patent concerns but Ivor Hewitt figured that out
and fixed the problem 8)
The slice engine is a great help for TV and the 3D works but the 3D performance
is not stunning. Its fine for tuxracer/bzflag but isnt going to make a gamer
happy
6626
days inactive
6631
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24 comments
17 participants
participants (17)
-
Alan -
Alan Cox -
Andrew Haley -
Arjan van de Ven -
Bill Nottingham -
David Woodhouse -
Igor Jagec -
Jesse Barnes -
Jon Nettleton -
Lamont R. Peterson -
Louis Garcia -
Mike A. Harris -
Mike Chambers -
Pete Zaitcev -
Richard Hughes -
Trond Eivind Glomsrød -
William Lovaton