5:48 a.m.
Re the discussion at
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2009-June/msg01991.html
The below suggestion tries to satisfy all parties:
- it presents a neutral default
- it presents a simple choice for newbie who doesnt know what a desktop is
- it shows the range of what is available
- it allows a specific choice
Design suggestion for the Fedora download page
(http://fedoraproject.org/en/get-fedora):
FEDORA LIVE CD
Do you require a specific desktop ?
[ * ] I don't care
[ ] Fedora Live with GNOME
[ ] Fedora Live with KDE
[ ] Fedora Live with LXDE
[ ] Fedora Live with XFCE
etc
The "I don't care" just links to whichever desktop is currently the
"default".
Implementation of this logic doesn't require radio buttons. Just 2 links:
1) "click here for default"
2) or "click here to choose (go to a selection menu)"
Clicking link #1 gets you the default. Or clicking link #2 takes you
to a menu of links, one for each available choice.
Fedora policy specifies which desktop the user gets if they click the default.
But the above user interface design is independent of whichever one is
the default.
6:14 a.m.
2009/6/29 David <bouncingcats(a)gmail.com>:
Re the discussion at
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2009-June/msg01991.html
The below suggestion tries to satisfy all parties:
- it presents a neutral default
- it presents a simple choice for newbie who doesnt know what a desktop is
- it shows the range of what is available
- it allows a specific choice
Design suggestion for the Fedora download page
(http://fedoraproject.org/en/get-fedora):
FEDORA LIVE CD
Do you require a specific desktop ?
[ * ] I don't care
[ ] Fedora Live with GNOME
[ ] Fedora Live with KDE
[ ] Fedora Live with LXDE
[ ] Fedora Live with XFCE
etc
The "I don't care" just links to whichever desktop is currently the
"default".
Implementation of this logic doesn't require radio buttons. Just 2 links:
1) "click here for default"
2) or "click here to choose (go to a selection menu)"
Clicking link #1 gets you the default. Or clicking link #2 takes you
to a menu of links, one for each available choice.
Fedora policy specifies which desktop the user gets if they click the default.
But the above user interface design is independent of whichever one is
the default.
David, this looks awesome to my, really good work!
+1
--
Regards,
Niels
--
fedora-devel-list mailing list
fedora-devel-list(a)redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
6:22 a.m.
The "I don't care" looks like "get me out of here!".
Not presenting a default choice is just bad usability. Those that know about
the different desktop environments should be offered an easy and accessible
way to get to them (I am not suggesting that the current page does that -
but presenting a false choice to many people already out of their element
trying this linux thingymajig may be enough to scare them away.). Those that
don't should not have to worry to much over such a page.
6:27 a.m.
On Monday 29 June 2009 13:22:05 Naheem Zaffar wrote:
The "I don't care" looks like "get me out of
here!".
"I don't care" really scares me. If you don't care then system
installation or
using with live CD is not a job for you!
Jaroslav
Not presenting a default choice is just bad usability. Those that know
about the different desktop environments should be offered an easy and
accessible way to get to them (I am not suggesting that the current page
does that - but presenting a false choice to many people already out of
their element trying this linux thingymajig may be enough to scare them
away.). Those that don't should not have to worry to much over such a page.
--
Jaroslav Řezník <jreznik(a)redhat.com>
Associate Software Engineer - Base Operating Systems Brno
Office: +420 532 294 275
Mobile: +420 731 455 332
Red Hat, Inc. http://cz.redhat.com/
9:56 a.m.
On 06/29/2009 05:27 AM, Jaroslav Reznik wrote:
On Monday 29 June 2009 13:22:05 Naheem Zaffar wrote:
> The "I don't care" looks like "get me out of here!".
>
"I don't care" really scares me. If you don't care then system
installation or
using with live CD is not a job for you!
Maybe call it "Default" then?
10:31 a.m.
On Monday 29 June 2009 17:02:36 Michael Cronenworth wrote:
Dariusz J. Garbowski on 06/29/2009 09:56 AM wrote:
> Maybe call it "Default" then?
No, because that's offensive to some people apparently.
No, "default" is not offensive! "Gnome Desktop Live Edition (default)"
is OK
for me...
--
Jaroslav Řezník <jreznik(a)redhat.com>
Associate Software Engineer - Base Operating Systems Brno
Office: +420 532 294 275
Mobile: +420 731 455 332
Red Hat, Inc. http://cz.redhat.com/
11:36 a.m.
2009/6/29 Jaroslav Reznik <jreznik(a)redhat.com>:
On Monday 29 June 2009 17:02:36 Michael Cronenworth wrote:
> Dariusz J. Garbowski on 06/29/2009 09:56 AM wrote:
> > Maybe call it "Default" then?
>
> No, because that's offensive to some people apparently.
No, "default" is not offensive! "Gnome Desktop Live Edition
(default)" is OK
for me...
+1
--
LG Thomas
Dubium sapientiae initium
8:57 a.m.
On 06/29/2009 07:22 AM, Naheem Zaffar wrote:
The "I don't care" looks like "get me out of
here!".
Not presenting a default choice is just bad usability. Those that know
about the different desktop environments should be offered an easy and
accessible way to get to them (I am not suggesting that the current page
does that - but presenting a false choice to many people already out of
their element trying this linux thingymajig may be enough to scare them
away.). Those that don't should not have to worry to much over such a page.
Probably should read "No Preference" vice "I don't care...." then
the
link can lead to a dialogue that explains the default or even provides
some neutral facts about the other desktops. Keep the facts short.
I know that there is a debate about who the Fedora audience is, but if
Fedora ever wants to be a contender desktop alternative for the
non-techie, just give me something that lets me do my e-mail, facebook,
write my college papers or whatever, it has to lose the "techie"
overtones it currently has. Those of us who appreciate Fedora and enjoy
living with rawhide will easily be able to quickly adopt the desktop we
like or even play with multiple desktops. We can then hand out DVDs
with David's menu to friends and associates and say, "Hey, try this one.
You'll like it!!"
9:19 a.m.
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 8:57 AM, Clyde E. Kunkel <clydekunkel7734(a)cox.net>wrote:
On 06/29/2009 07:22 AM, Naheem Zaffar wrote:
> The "I don't care" looks like "get me out of here!".
>
> Not presenting a default choice is just bad usability. Those that know
> about the different desktop environments should be offered an easy and
> accessible way to get to them (I am not suggesting that the current page
> does that - but presenting a false choice to many people already out of
> their element trying this linux thingymajig may be enough to scare them
> away.). Those that don't should not have to worry to much over such a
> page.
>
>
Probably should read "No Preference" vice "I don't care...."
then the link
can lead to a dialogue that explains the default or even provides some
neutral facts about the other desktops. Keep the facts short.
I think a "Help me choose" choice that takes you to a page with
descriptions
of each spin's environment would be more friendly (and probably more
accurate as to why someone would want to use that choice.
On the opposite side, there could be a "Show me everything" to just link
to all the ISO's, which is aimed at the folks who know what they want and
just want to get there in the quickest number of clicks.
C.
4:50 a.m.
On Monday 29 June 2009 16:19:13 Cliff Nadler wrote:
I think a "Help me choose" choice that takes you to a page with
descriptions of each spin's environment would be more friendly (and
probably more accurate as to why someone would want to use that choice.
[cut]
I agree, "Help me choose" + description + a couple of screenshots would be nice,
and I think that it's much better than labeling one version as "default".
Maybe it's also useful to teach people that there are multiple environments to
choose from (instead of assuming that they won't care about that)?
L.V.
6:36 a.m.
2009/6/29 David <bouncingcats(a)gmail.com>:
Re the discussion at
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2009-June/msg01991.html
The below suggestion tries to satisfy all parties:
- it presents a neutral default
- it presents a simple choice for newbie who doesnt know what a desktop is
- it shows the range of what is available
- it allows a specific choice
Design suggestion for the Fedora download page
(http://fedoraproject.org/en/get-fedora):
FEDORA LIVE CD
Do you require a specific desktop ?
[ * ] I just want to try/have a look [Info]
[ ] Fedora Live with GNOME [Screenshots] [Info]
[ ] Fedora Live with KDE [Screenshots] [Info]
[ ] Fedora Live with LXDE [Screenshots] [Info]
[ ] Fedora Live with XFCE [Screenshots] [Info]
etc
The "I just want to try/have a look" just links to whichever desktop
is currently the "default".
Thanks David
--
LG Thomas
Dubium sapientiae initium
8:12 a.m.
2009/6/29 Thomas Janssen <thomasj(a)fedoraproject.org>:
2009/6/29 David <bouncingcats(a)gmail.com>:
> Re the discussion at
> https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2009-June/msg01991.html
>
> The below suggestion tries to satisfy all parties:
> - it presents a neutral default
> - it presents a simple choice for newbie who doesnt know what a desktop is
> - it shows the range of what is available
> - it allows a specific choice
>
> Design suggestion for the Fedora download page
> (http://fedoraproject.org/en/get-fedora):
>
FEDORA LIVE CD
Do you require a specific desktop ?
[ * ] I just want to try/have a look [Info]
[ ] Fedora Live with GNOME [Screenshots] [Info]
[ ] Fedora Live with KDE [Screenshots] [Info]
[ ] Fedora Live with LXDE [Screenshots] [Info]
[ ] Fedora Live with XFCE [Screenshots] [Info]
etc
The "I just want to try/have a look" just links to whichever desktop
is currently the "default".
I like the screenshot / info page idea. But I think one thing is missing.
I wonder if we could find also a way to get the 32bit vs. 64bit choice
also so smart integrated?
Like a additional radio button at the end for choosing 32bit or 64bit.
PS: Hope that this not cause the next long discussion about the default arch :)
--
Regards,
Niels
Thanks David
--
LG Thomas
Dubium sapientiae initium
--
fedora-devel-list mailing list
fedora-devel-list(a)redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
2:36 p.m.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Niels Haase wrote:
I wonder if we could find also a way to get the 32bit vs.
64bit choice
also so smart integrated?
Like a additional radio button at the end for choosing 32bit
or 64bit.
PS: Hope that this not cause the next long discussion about
the default arch :)
How about, instead of asking for arch directly, we have a
series of questions to determine if they have a 64bit
processor?
0. Button for "I know what I want" (direct choice)
1. Is your computer older (built/purchased new before 200X)?
2. Is it a netbook? (well, in this case should they really be
getting optical media anyways? liveusb-creator can download on
its own)
3. ...
I'm probably not the most qualified to get the most effective
questions, but it's a thought.
- --Ben
--
Regards,
Niels
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
iEYEARECAAYFAkpJF6IACgkQiPi+MRHG3qSBvwCcCl4skiej+IzwZp9d8tno20fW
NnkAoMCZJ4MiKkvc7rTqWXuB2pblafYh
=vbnF
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
3 p.m.
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 9:36 PM, Ben Boeckel<MathStuf(a)gmail.com> wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Niels Haase wrote:
> I wonder if we could find also a way to get the 32bit vs.
64bit choice
> also so smart integrated?
>
> Like a additional radio button at the end for choosing 32bit
or 64bit.
>
> PS: Hope that this not cause the next long discussion about
the default arch :)
How about, instead of asking for arch directly, we have a
series of questions to determine if they have a 64bit
processor?
0. Button for "I know what I want" (direct choice)
1. Is your computer older (built/purchased new before 200X)?
2. Is it a netbook? (well, in this case should they really be
getting optical media anyways? liveusb-creator can download on
its own)
3. ...
I'm probably not the most qualified to get the most effective
questions, but it's a thought.
User wants to download fedora .. sees the download page .. thinks "wtf
is that" ... moves on to ubuntu/opensuse/mandrivia/whatever
3:42 p.m.
2009/6/29 drago01 <drago01(a)gmail.com>:
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 9:36 PM, Ben
Boeckel<MathStuf(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Niels Haase wrote:
>> I wonder if we could find also a way to get the 32bit vs.
> 64bit choice
>> also so smart integrated?
>>
>> Like a additional radio button at the end for choosing 32bit
> or 64bit.
>>
>> PS: Hope that this not cause the next long discussion about
> the default arch :)
>
> How about, instead of asking for arch directly, we have a
> series of questions to determine if they have a 64bit
> processor?
>
> 0. Button for "I know what I want" (direct choice)
> 1. Is your computer older (built/purchased new before 200X)?
> 2. Is it a netbook? (well, in this case should they really be
> getting optical media anyways? liveusb-creator can download on
> its own)
> 3. ...
>
> I'm probably not the most qualified to get the most effective
> questions, but it's a thought.
User wants to download fedora .. sees the download page .. thinks "wtf
is that" ... moves on to ubuntu/opensuse/mandrivia/whatever
Sorry, but is that what you would do? Dont always think users are
stupid. If you hunt for the stupid ones, you will get the stupid ones.
I would prefer to have more smarter users. But you have to be very
dumb to not understand simple questions to fit your needs perfect. And
we would always have the "give me the default" option for users like
that. By the way, have you ever thought about that the users are right
now going away because they think wtf is that? It's not like that we
have the perfect solution yet.
--
LG Thomas
Dubium sapientiae initium
3:46 p.m.
Does archetecture get exported anywhere by javascript?
If so, it would provide a simple way to query the users' hardware.
4:18 p.m.
On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 23:12:10 +0200
drago01 <drago01(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 10:46 PM, Richard
June<rjune(a)bravegnuworld.com> wrote:
> Does archetecture get exported anywhere by javascript?
> If so, it would provide a simple way to query the users' hardware.
No.
Additionally, as the websites folks have already mentioned:
There is no way to know if you are downloading on the machine you are
going to install on. It could be a friends, at a library, etc.
kevin
9:59 a.m.
On Tuesday 30 June 2009, drago01 wrote:
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 10:46 PM, Richard
June<rjune(a)bravegnuworld.com>
wrote:
> Does archetecture get exported anywhere by javascript?
> If so, it would provide a simple way to query the users' hardware.
No.
Sure it does get "exported", kind of, but at least some parsing is required
and there are cross browser issues; see navigator.platform, navigator.oscpu
and/or navigator.userAgent. Anyway, as others have already noted, the
usefulness of that info for the above purpose is very much questionable.
10:24 a.m.
Ville Skyttä wrote:
Sure it does get "exported", kind of, but at least some
parsing is
required and there are cross browser issues; see navigator.platform,
navigator.oscpu and/or navigator.userAgent. Anyway, as others have
already noted, the usefulness of that info for the above purpose is very
much questionable.
And many people who aren't using GNU/Linux yet will be running 32-bit
Window$ on their 64-bit CPU, so it'll report 32-bit.
Kevin Kofler
6:40 a.m.
On Monday 29 June 2009 12:48:11 David wrote:
Re the discussion at
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2009-June/msg01991.html
The below suggestion tries to satisfy all parties:
- it presents a neutral default
- it presents a simple choice for newbie who doesnt know what a desktop is
- it shows the range of what is available
- it allows a specific choice
Design suggestion for the Fedora download page
(http://fedoraproject.org/en/get-fedora):
FEDORA LIVE CD
Do you require a specific desktop ?
[ * ] I don't care
[ ] Fedora Live with GNOME
[ ] Fedora Live with KDE
[ ] Fedora Live with LXDE
[ ] Fedora Live with XFCE
etc
The "I don't care" just links to whichever desktop is currently the
"default".
Implementation of this logic doesn't require radio buttons. Just 2 links:
1) "click here for default"
2) or "click here to choose (go to a selection menu)"
Clicking link #1 gets you the default. Or clicking link #2 takes you
to a menu of links, one for each available choice.
Fedora policy specifies which desktop the user gets if they click the
default. But the above user interface design is independent of whichever
one is the default.
small improvement:
FEDORA LIVE CD
Do you require a specific desktop ?
[ * ] Fedora Live with GNOME (default)
[ ] Fedora Live with KDE
[ ] Fedora Live with LXDE
[ ] Fedora Live with XFCE
etc
it's better than "I don't care" and it suggests what to use if you
really
don't care :)
9:26 a.m.
Michal Hlavinka wrote:
FEDORA LIVE CD
Do you require a specific desktop ?
[ * ] Fedora Live with GNOME (default)
[ ] Fedora Live with KDE
[ ] Fedora Live with LXDE
[ ] Fedora Live with XFCE
The word "require" is too strong, I may choose by preference
or by curiosity, which are not exactly a requirement.
I propose:
FEDORA LIVE CD
Fedora includes many desktops. You can choose:
[ * ] Fedora Live with GNOME (default)
[ ] Fedora Live with KDE
[ ] Fedora Live with LXDE
[ ] Fedora Live with XFCE
(Funny that the order of the desktops has come out
alphabetically sorted too)
--
Roberto Ragusa mail at robertoragusa.it
10:10 a.m.
Roberto Ragusa wrote:
(Funny that the order of the desktops has come out
alphabetically sorted too)
We may want to list XFCE before LXDE as its the more mature option. But I
don't have popularity stats for those, so I don't know which one is more
popular. The more popular one should be listed first.
Kevin Kofler
11:34 a.m.
2009/6/29 Kevin Kofler <kevin.kofler(a)chello.at>:
Roberto Ragusa wrote:
> (Funny that the order of the desktops has come out
> alphabetically sorted too)
We may want to list XFCE before LXDE as its the more mature option. But I
don't have popularity stats for those, so I don't know which one is more
popular. The more popular one should be listed first.
Well, alphabetically sorted is just perfect. No matter what DE might
be the most popular.
--
LG Thomas
Dubium sapientiae initium
11:27 a.m.
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 3:26 PM, Roberto Ragusa<mail(a)robertoragusa.it> wrote:
I propose:
FEDORA LIVE CD
Fedora includes many desktops. You can choose:
[ * ] Fedora Live with GNOME (default)
[ ] Fedora Live with KDE
[ ] Fedora Live with LXDE
[ ] Fedora Live with XFCE
(Funny that the order of the desktops has come out
alphabetically sorted too)
How about:
Fedora Live Image <--- A link that downloads the Gnome or KDE image,
picked at random by a script. ;-) Followed by:
Fedora Live Image
with GNOME <--- Links to specific editions.
with KDE
with LXDE
with XFCE
--
Mat Booth
www.matbooth.co.uk
11:31 a.m.
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 11:27 AM, Mat Booth<fedora(a)matbooth.co.uk> wrote:
Fedora Live Image <--- A link that downloads the Gnome or KDE
image,
picked at random by a script. <SNIP>
Now its just getting silly... What a support nightmare that would be.
<user> I need help
<fedora-member> What desktop are you running?
<user> I dunno ... I just downloaded the default
<fedora-member> .....
Enjoy DE Russian Roulette :)
-Adam
--
http://maxamillion.googlepages.com
---------------------------------------------------------
() ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
/\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments
11:34 a.m.
Adam Miller on 06/29/2009 11:31 AM wrote:
Now its just getting silly... What a support nightmare that would be.
<user> I need help
<fedora-member> What desktop are you running?
<user> I dunno ... I just downloaded the default
<fedora-member> .....
Enjoy DE Russian Roulette :)
What if the Fedora version had a suffix?
Fedora 11G - Gnome
11K - KDE
11X - XFCE
11S - no desktop (server?)
Seems silly, too, yes, but just an idea.
11:38 a.m.
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 11:34 AM, Michael Cronenworth<mike(a)cchtml.com> wrote:
What if the Fedora version had a suffix?
Fedora 11G - Gnome
11K - KDE
11X - XFCE
11S - no desktop (server?)
Seems silly, too, yes, but just an idea.
Somewhat silly, but the naming convention could actually help until we
run into some new DE (not sure if anyone has plans to pop one up or
not) that starts with the same letter as another). Not a bad idea imho
if we are to travel down this path.
-Adam
--
http://maxamillion.googlepages.com
---------------------------------------------------------
() ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
/\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments
9:29 p.m.
Adam Miller wrote:
Somewhat silly, but the naming convention could actually help until
we
run into some new DE (not sure if anyone has plans to pop one up or
not) that starts with the same letter as another).
Well, Ubuntu will have a problem at that point as well (see Kubuntu and
Xubuntu). ;-) Maybe we should write a U Desktop Environment just to give
them trouble. ^^
Kevin Kofler
9:42 p.m.
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 9:29 PM, Kevin Kofler<kevin.kofler(a)chello.at> wrote:
Well, Ubuntu will have a problem at that point as well (see Kubuntu
and
Xubuntu). ;-) Maybe we should write a U Desktop Environment just to give
them trouble. ^^
That's actually a little different, Kubutu and Xubuntu are considered
completely separate distributions from within the Ubuntu community.
They all have disjoint development teams (though *some* do cross
distros in their development efforts) really the only thing they share
is a package repository, but so do distros like Mint.
This is an aspect of Fedora that I really like, I always felt it
foolish to have a different distro for each Desktop Environment.
-Adam
--
http://maxamillion.googlepages.com
---------------------------------------------------------
() ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
/\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments
10:14 p.m.
On 06/29/2009 09:42 PM, Adam Miller wrote:
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 9:29 PM, Kevin
Kofler<kevin.kofler(a)chello.at> wrote:
> Well, Ubuntu will have a problem at that point as well (see Kubuntu and
> Xubuntu). ;-) Maybe we should write a U Desktop Environment just to give
> them trouble. ^^
>
That's actually a little different, Kubutu and Xubuntu are considered
completely separate distributions from within the Ubuntu community.
They all have disjoint development teams (though *some* do cross
distros in their development efforts) really the only thing they share
is a package repository, but so do distros like Mint.
This is an aspect of Fedora that I really like, I always felt it
foolish to have a different distro for each Desktop Environment.
Yes, because what if someone installs Gnome, KDE, and XFCE? Is it now
called Fedora 11GKX? Ukxuntu? (probably works out with some African
dialect ;) )
Kevin, they'd probably just call it "Uubuntu" sadly.
10:27 a.m.
Adam Miller wrote:
That's actually a little different, Kubutu and Xubuntu are
considered
completely separate distributions from within the Ubuntu community.
That wasn't really my point (it was about their use of just one letter for
each desktop environment), but...
They all have disjoint development teams (though *some* do cross
distros in their development efforts) really the only thing they share
is a package repository, but so do distros like Mint.
This is an aspect of Fedora that I really like, I always felt it
foolish to have a different distro for each Desktop Environment.
... +1. :-)
That said, Kubuntu and Xubuntu aren't really completely separate either,
they're just marketed as such. They're really just spins from the same
repository. The way they're marketed as "separate" is really silly.
Kevin Kofler
10:54 a.m.
On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 10:27 AM, Kevin Kofler<kevin.kofler(a)chello.at> wrote:
That said, Kubuntu and Xubuntu aren't really completely separate
either,
they're just marketed as such. They're really just spins from the same
repository. The way they're marketed as "separate" is really silly.
They are actually separate development teams unless something changed
since I left the Xubuntu project a few years ago. It was always that
the projects were disjoint and the project leads were really the main
line of communication between the separate projects (which makes zero
sense to me).
But none of that really matters, and I do see your point that we would
essentially run into a similar situation from a marketing standpoint
and I agree it is best left to the way it is with full identification
of the Spins and their purpose.
-Adam
--
http://maxamillion.googlepages.com
---------------------------------------------------------
() ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
/\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments
5:15 p.m.
Adam Miller wrote:
But none of that really matters, and I do see your point that we
would
essentially run into a similar situation from a marketing standpoint
Huh? If you follow the thread, I didn't really make that point at all! I
just said made a semi-serious remark about how having a desktop environment
with the same first letter as another would be a problem for Ubuntu as
well.
That said, I do agree that having our spins presented as separate projects
is not the way to go.
Kevin Kofler
11:58 a.m.
On 6/29/2009 12:31 PM, Adam Miller wrote:
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 11:27 AM, Mat
Booth<fedora(a)matbooth.co.uk> wrote:
> Fedora Live Image <--- A link that downloads the Gnome or KDE image,
> picked at random by a script. <SNIP>
Now its just getting silly... What a support nightmare that would be.
<user> I need help
<fedora-member> What desktop are you running?
<user> I dunno ... I just downloaded the default
<fedora-member> .....
Enjoy DE Russian Roulette :)
<lurk mode off>
Now you guys are just getting Geeky about this.
First. What makes you think that 'a Newbie from Windows' has any idea
just what this 'desktop thing' is all about?
Second. I would guess that if 'a Newbie from Windows' showed up to
download that someone showed him where to go and made strong suggestions
something like 'this one is what I use'.
Third. I would be willing to bet that many of them would name the
wallpaper if you ask them what a Windows desktop is. :-)
What makes you think that 'a Newbie from Windows' has any idea just what
a 'desktop' is?
Sheesh.
<lurk mode on>
--
David
11:52 a.m.
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 6:27 PM, Mat Booth<fedora(a)matbooth.co.uk> wrote:
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 3:26 PM, Roberto
Ragusa<mail(a)robertoragusa.it> wrote:
> I propose:
>
> FEDORA LIVE CD
> Fedora includes many desktops. You can choose:
> [ * ] Fedora Live with GNOME (default)
> [ ] Fedora Live with KDE
> [ ] Fedora Live with LXDE
> [ ] Fedora Live with XFCE
>
> (Funny that the order of the desktops has come out
> alphabetically sorted too)
>
How about:
Fedora Live Image <--- A link that downloads the Gnome or KDE image,
picked at random by a script. ;-)
stop right there ... this is becoming really silly now.
As if the name of a iso image is the only problem we should care about.
We should spend our time and efforts on fixing real issues.
12:04 p.m.
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 6:52 PM, drago01 <drago01(a)gmail.com> wrote:
[...]
stop right there ... this is becoming really silly now.
As if the name of a iso image is the only problem we should care about.
We should spend our time and efforts on fixing real issues.
Sorry, but this is ignorant too. A distribution do not only have "real
technical issues". The apperance to the users is also part of the
distribution work.
Kind regards,
Thomas
3:07 p.m.
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 5:52 PM, drago01<drago01(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 6:27 PM, Mat
Booth<fedora(a)matbooth.co.uk> wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 3:26 PM, Roberto Ragusa<mail(a)robertoragusa.it> wrote:
>> I propose:
>>
>> FEDORA LIVE CD
>> Fedora includes many desktops. You can choose:
>> [ * ] Fedora Live with GNOME (default)
>> [ ] Fedora Live with KDE
>> [ ] Fedora Live with LXDE
>> [ ] Fedora Live with XFCE
>>
>> (Funny that the order of the desktops has come out
>> alphabetically sorted too)
>>
>
> How about:
>
> Fedora Live Image <--- A link that downloads the Gnome or KDE image,
> picked at random by a script. ;-)
stop right there ... this is becoming really silly now.
It's a silly suggestion for a silly thread. I've never had the
impression that Fedora was targeted toward the newbie user
demographic. My MP3 swilling, DVD consuming former Windows using
friends have mostly turned to the brown side (ubuntu) -- Fedora's for
people who want to get some work done.
--
Mat Booth
www.matbooth.co.uk
3:40 p.m.
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 21:07:50 +0100,
Mat Booth <fedora(a)matbooth.co.uk> wrote:
It's a silly suggestion for a silly thread. I've never had the
impression that Fedora was targeted toward the newbie user
demographic. My MP3 swilling, DVD consuming former Windows using
friends have mostly turned to the brown side (ubuntu) -- Fedora's for
people who want to get some work done.
My opinion on who Fedora is for, is that Fedora is for people that want to
participate, not just consume.
3:49 p.m.
2009/6/29 Mat Booth <fedora(a)matbooth.co.uk>:
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 5:52 PM, drago01<drago01(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 6:27 PM, Mat Booth<fedora(a)matbooth.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 3:26 PM, Roberto Ragusa<mail(a)robertoragusa.it>
wrote:
>>> I propose:
>>>
>>> FEDORA LIVE CD
>>> Fedora includes many desktops. You can choose:
>>> [ * ] Fedora Live with GNOME (default)
>>> [ ] Fedora Live with KDE
>>> [ ] Fedora Live with LXDE
>>> [ ] Fedora Live with XFCE
>>>
>>> (Funny that the order of the desktops has come out
>>> alphabetically sorted too)
>>>
>>
>> How about:
>>
>> Fedora Live Image <--- A link that downloads the Gnome or KDE image,
>> picked at random by a script. ;-)
>
> stop right there ... this is becoming really silly now.
>
It's a silly suggestion for a silly thread. I've never had the
impression that Fedora was targeted toward the newbie user
demographic. My MP3 swilling, DVD consuming former Windows using
friends have mostly turned to the brown side (ubuntu) -- Fedora's for
people who want to get some work done.
Well, i think fedora is for people who like it to have cutting edge
software even trough the lifetime, like new kernel series, updated
KDE, and and and. All the things they cant have with other distros
like openSUSE (well possible with lots of more or less dangerous extra
repos) or Ubuntu in the stable releasecycle.
--
LG Thomas
Dubium sapientiae initium
9:32 p.m.
Mat Booth wrote:
Fedora Live Image <--- A link that downloads the Gnome or KDE
image,
picked at random by a script. ;-) Followed by:
WTF, a random default is going to make nobody happy, it'd just make a mess.
Random order of the options, with none marked as default, (which is
basically what openSUSE is doing) MIGHT be borderline tolerable, but I
think even that is silly. Even a bad default (i.e. GNOME ;-) ) is better
than a random one.
Kevin Kofler
3:07 a.m.
Kevin Kofler wrote:
Mat Booth wrote:
> Fedora Live Image <--- A link that downloads the Gnome or KDE image,
> picked at random by a script. ;-) Followed by:
WTF, a random default is going to make nobody happy, it'd just make a mess.
Random order of the options, with none marked as default, (which is
basically what openSUSE is doing) MIGHT be borderline tolerable, but I
think even that is silly. Even a bad default (i.e. GNOME ;-) ) is better
than a random one.
I think the random choice proposal was just a joke (see the
emoticon Mat used).
--
Roberto Ragusa mail at robertoragusa.it
8:15 a.m.
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 5:48 AM, David<bouncingcats(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Re the discussion at
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2009-June/msg01991.html
The below suggestion tries to satisfy all parties:
- it presents a neutral default
- it presents a simple choice for newbie who doesnt know what a desktop is
- it shows the range of what is available
- it allows a specific choice
Design suggestion for the Fedora download page
(http://fedoraproject.org/en/get-fedora):
FEDORA LIVE CD
Do you require a specific desktop ?
[ * ] I don't care
[ ] Fedora Live with GNOME
[ ] Fedora Live with KDE
[ ] Fedora Live with LXDE
[ ] Fedora Live with XFCE
etc
The "I don't care" just links to whichever desktop is currently the
"default".
Implementation of this logic doesn't require radio buttons. Just 2 links:
1) "click here for default"
2) or "click here to choose (go to a selection menu)"
Clicking link #1 gets you the default. Or clicking link #2 takes you
to a menu of links, one for each available choice.
Fedora policy specifies which desktop the user gets if they click the default.
But the above user interface design is independent of whichever one is
the default.
--
fedora-devel-list mailing list
fedora-devel-list(a)redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
+1
Great idea, possibly change the verbage of "I don't care" but a solid
idea non the less.
-Adam
--
http://maxamillion.googlepages.com
---------------------------------------------------------
() ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
/\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments
8:35 a.m.
David wrote:
The "I don't care" just links to whichever desktop is
currently the
"default".
People who don't care should (and will, anyway) just keep using Winblow$ or
whatever crap they're currently using. If you're going through the effort
of downloading an operating system, you should be expected to care about
what you're getting.
Kevin Kofler
9:05 a.m.
On 06/29/2009 09:35 AM, Kevin Kofler wrote:
David wrote:
> The "I don't care" just links to whichever desktop is currently the
> "default".
People who don't care should (and will, anyway) just keep using Winblow$ or
whatever crap they're currently using. If you're going through the effort
of downloading an operating system, you should be expected to care about
what you're getting.
Kevin Kofler
I don't think so. I think if someone wants to give linux and Fedora a
shot, then lets make it easy for them. Let them go back to MS windows
if they like--all that means is that linux/Fedora/free software is not
yet at a level they can appreciate or even use without thinking about
the technie stuff and then we go back to thre drawing boards and try
again (and again...).
5414
days inactive
5415
days old
47 comments
24 participants
participants (24)
-
Adam Miller -
Ben Boeckel -
Bruno Wolff III -
Cliff Nadler -
Clyde E. Kunkel -
Dariusz J. Garbowski -
David -
David Boles -
drago01 -
Jaroslav Reznik -
Kevin Fenzi -
Kevin Kofler -
Lorenzo Villani -
Mat Booth -
Michael Cronenworth -
Michal Hlavinka -
Naheem Zaffar -
Niels Haase -
Ralf Corsepius -
Richard June -
Roberto Ragusa -
Thomas Bendler -
Thomas Janssen -
Ville Skyttä