I'd like to add a new Fedora project for translation.
The instructions in the guide at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/Guide#How_do_I_add_a_module_to_Transifex... have a link to a page which doesn't exist.
Mail sent to trans@lists.fedoraproject.org, from the email address associated with my Fedora account, basically tell me to go away:
"You are not allowed to post to this mailing list, and your message has been automatically rejected. If you think that your messages are being rejected in error, contact the mailing list owner at trans-owner@lists.fedoraproject.org."
Contacting the mailing list owner, as requested, has so far elicited no response either although it's only been 28 hours or so.
I appreciate there has been something of a storm around the translation issue, and things may be a little up in the air right now.
But I'd be very grateful if someone could tell me if it's currently possible to add new projects for translation, or not? And if not, some idea when it might be possible again (and how to tell, other than to keep asking).
Thanks.
David Woodhouse wrote:
Mail sent to trans@lists.fedoraproject.org, from the email address associated with my Fedora account, basically tell me to go away:
"You are not allowed to post to this mailing list, and your message has been automatically rejected. If you think that your messages are being rejected in error, contact the mailing list owner at trans-owner@lists.fedoraproject.org."Contacting the mailing list owner, as requested, has so far elicited no response either although it's only been 28 hours or so.
It looks like the standard you-are-not-subscribed-to-the-list rejection email. The list itself appears to be active:
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/trans/
You can subscribe to the list from
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/trans
On Wed, 2014-08-13 at 15:50 -0400, Andrew Schultz wrote:
David Woodhouse wrote:
Mail sent to trans@lists.fedoraproject.org, from the email address associated with my Fedora account, basically tell me to go away:
"You are not allowed to post to this mailing list, and your message has been automatically rejected. If you think that your messages are being rejected in error, contact the mailing list owner at trans-owner@lists.fedoraproject.org."Contacting the mailing list owner, as requested, has so far elicited no response either although it's only been 28 hours or so.
It looks like the standard you-are-not-subscribed-to-the-list rejection email.
Oh, so that list is only for internal private discussion by members of the team?
What's the point of contact for developers who just want to Do The Right Thing and make sure their package gets localised then?
On 08/13/2014 12:50 PM, Andrew Schultz wrote:
David Woodhouse wrote:
Mail sent to trans@lists.fedoraproject.org, from the email address associated with my Fedora account, basically tell me to go away:
"You are not allowed to post to this mailing list, and your message has been automatically rejected. If you think that your messages are being rejected in error, contact the mailing list owner at trans-owner@lists.fedoraproject.org."Contacting the mailing list owner, as requested, has so far elicited no response either although it's only been 28 hours or so.
It looks like the standard you-are-not-subscribed-to-the-list rejection email. The list itself appears to be active:
I would recommend changing the wording as, at least to me, that sounds like a closed list. There is no indication that someone could actually send to the list if they were subscribed.
On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 13:50:53 -0700 Samuel Sieb samuel@sieb.net wrote:
On 08/13/2014 12:50 PM, Andrew Schultz wrote:
David Woodhouse wrote:
Mail sent to trans@lists.fedoraproject.org, from the email address associated with my Fedora account, basically tell me to go away:
"You are not allowed to post to this mailing list, and yourmessage has been automatically rejected. If you think that your messages are being rejected in error, contact the mailing list owner at trans-owner@lists.fedoraproject.org."
Contacting the mailing list owner, as requested, has so far elicited no response either although it's only been 28 hours or so.
It looks like the standard you-are-not-subscribed-to-the-list rejection email. The list itself appears to be active:
I would recommend changing the wording as, at least to me, that sounds like a closed list. There is no indication that someone could actually send to the list if they were subscribed.
Well, I'm not sure why this is suddenly confusing. This very list you are posting on is setup the same way (you have to subscribe to post).
I guess the wording could be better and mention that you may need to subscribe to post. List admins can customize the default. Might be good to look and see if mailman3's message is similar.
kevin
On Wed, 2014-08-13 at 14:56 -0600, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
Well, I'm not sure why this is suddenly confusing.
Because I misunderstood and thought that the trans@ list might actually be somewhere that people should post to for one-off advice and assistance (or to point out broken links on the web page), without wanting to subscribe and take a daily interest in l10n matters.
If it doesn't serve that purpose, do we have something that *does*?
David Woodhouse wrote:
Because I misunderstood and thought that the trans@ list might actually be somewhere that people should post to for one-off advice and assistance (or to point out broken links on the web page), without wanting to subscribe and take a daily interest in l10n matters.
While that seems like a good idea and I have sometimes wanted something like that myself, I think people on the list are much more likely to respond if they know the original person will see the response. From experience, I see people posting to such more "open" lists and saying "I'm not subscribed. Please send replies to my email address", which is not the way things should work.
Limiting posting to subscribers probably also reduces spam (or at least the need for spam moderation).
Of course, all that doesn't mean the message shouldn't try to more accurately convey the situation. It sounds like a catch-all rejection message or like the wording is targeted at subscribers who are being incorrectly rejected.
On Wed, 2014-08-13 at 17:32 -0400, Andrew Schultz wrote:
David Woodhouse wrote:
Because I misunderstood and thought that the trans@ list might actually be somewhere that people should post to for one-off advice and assistance (or to point out broken links on the web page), without wanting to subscribe and take a daily interest in l10n matters.
While that seems like a good idea and I have sometimes wanted something like that myself, I think people on the list are much more likely to respond if they know the original person will see the response. From experience, I see people posting to such more "open" lists and saying "I'm not subscribed. Please send replies to my email address", which is not the way things should work.
That's kind of an orthogonal issue. Although I absolutely agree that it's not the way things should work.
You should never need to *tell* people to keep you in Cc when they reply. In an ideal world, nobody would ever be so rude and unhelpful as to *remove* you from Cc. So you shouldn't need to *tell* them not to.
(cf. http://david.woodhou.se/reply-to-list.html )
Limiting posting to subscribers probably also reduces spam (or at least the need for spam moderation).
I can understand having a lower threshold for rejecting mail from non-subscribers. (Or, more usefully perhaps, for sender addresses which aren't known in the Fedora account system.) But rejecting them outright seems to be excessive.
The message in question had an extremely low SA score, and the points it *did* have were because of missing rDNS on a Fedora relay machine (67.203.2.69) not the original submission.
It doesn't seem to make sense to reject a valid S/MIME-signed, non-HTML mail, with a very low SA score, from a known Fedora contributor, just because I don't happen to be subscribed to the list. Perhaps some tweaking of the filters could be helpful here, to take some of these 'common sense' criteria into account when deciding whether to accept the mail or not.
FWIW I run a bunch of mailing lists which are open for non-subscribers to post, and don't seem to have much of a spam problem.
On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 10:05:35PM +0100, David Woodhouse wrote:
On Wed, 2014-08-13 at 14:56 -0600, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
Well, I'm not sure why this is suddenly confusing.
Because I misunderstood and thought that the trans@ list might actually be somewhere that people should post to for one-off advice and assistance (or to point out broken links on the web page), without wanting to subscribe and take a daily interest in l10n matters.
If it doesn't serve that purpose, do we have something that *does*?
IRC Freenode at #fedora-l10n perhaps?
On Wed, 2014-08-13 at 18:08 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote:
On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 10:05:35PM +0100, David Woodhouse wrote:
On Wed, 2014-08-13 at 14:56 -0600, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
Well, I'm not sure why this is suddenly confusing.
Because I misunderstood and thought that the trans@ list might actually be somewhere that people should post to for one-off advice and assistance (or to point out broken links on the web page), without wanting to subscribe and take a daily interest in l10n matters.
If it doesn't serve that purpose, do we have something that *does*?
IRC Freenode at #fedora-l10n perhaps?
I've been asking on there for a few days. Mostly crickets.
On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 10:05:35PM +0100, David Woodhouse wrote:
Because I misunderstood and thought that the trans@ list might actually be somewhere that people should post to for one-off advice and assistance (or to point out broken links on the web page), without wanting to subscribe and take a daily interest in l10n matters.
If it doesn't serve that purpose, do we have something that *does*?
We have a general problem where any of our lists which allow open posting are very quickly overwhelmed with spam. That is unfortunate, but overall a greater evil than requiring subscription. Many lists have a moderator who will allow legitimate posts through eventually, although that is hard to keep up with. In the future, the hyperkitty web UI will provide one solution, although maybe not what you're looking for.
On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 22:05:35 +0100 David Woodhouse dwmw2@infradead.org wrote:
On Wed, 2014-08-13 at 14:56 -0600, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
Well, I'm not sure why this is suddenly confusing.
Because I misunderstood and thought that the trans@ list might actually be somewhere that people should post to for one-off advice and assistance (or to point out broken links on the web page), without wanting to subscribe and take a daily interest in l10n matters.
You can always subscribe and set your subscription to 'nomail' ?
Or subscribe and finish your questions/discussion and unsubscribe?
If it doesn't serve that purpose, do we have something that *does*?
Not sure. There's only a few lists that allow posts with no subscription anymore. I suppose you could ask on the infrastructure list (it's one such list, which I spend X minutes a day moderating all the spam flow on), and some translation folks are subscribed.
Once we have hyperkitty you could post from the web interface, but I think it by default then subscribes you still.
kevin
On 08/13/2014 01:56 PM, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 13:50:53 -0700 Samuel Sieb samuel@sieb.net wrote:
I would recommend changing the wording as, at least to me, that sounds like a closed list. There is no indication that someone could actually send to the list if they were subscribed.
Well, I'm not sure why this is suddenly confusing. This very list you are posting on is setup the same way (you have to subscribe to post).
I wasn't confused. (I wasn't trying to post either.) However, I can see how it could be confusing to someone not as familiar with these lists.
I guess the wording could be better and mention that you may need to subscribe to post. List admins can customize the default. Might be good to look and see if mailman3's message is similar.
Yes, my suggestion was just to add a note in the message somewhere that you have to be subscribed to post.
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Andrew Schultz -
David Woodhouse -
Kevin Fenzi -
Matthew Miller -
Paul W. Frields -
Samuel Sieb