Re: Fedora's way forward
by chasd
I know I'm late jumping into this thread.
I also realize I am a lurker for the most part, but I felt I should
respond.
On 3/28/06, Eric S. Raymond <esr(a)thyrsus.com> wrote:
> Good thing the fourth: A combination of increased polish in various
> distro components and significant upstream developments (one biggie
> being OpenOffice 2.0) has, to my observation, inched FC across an
> important functional threshold. My wife can use it with as little
> pain as Windows now, rather than merely tolerating the crap because
> she believes in what the Linux community is trying to do.
For some users this happened in the FC3/FC4 timeframe.
> First, a relatively minor issue that is nevertheless quite annoying.
> It's the Fedora distribution art, the images in Anaconda and the
> Fedora-customized graphics in the admin tools and elsewhere. It has
> never been much better than mediocre, and in FC5 it hits a new low
> with backgrounds that look like a Teletubby hocked loogies into a
> dish full of soap scum.
Constructive criticism would do more.
What kind of imagery would be better, considering the same goals and
parameters the designers were given ? Without _constructive_ criticism,
the comments seem like something from Simon Cowell.
> And whose bright idea, I have to wonder, was
> it to abandon the attractive and recognizable Fedora icon for
> something that's...not a fedora?
The Fedora project does need to come out from the shadow of Red Hat.
Establishing a new visual identity is an important part of that.
Whether the new identity is hitting its goals is a different question,
but the change needed to happen.
> And
> original BlueCurve wasn't much to cheer about compared to the
> decorative art on a Windows or (especially) a Mac -- acceptable, but
> not a competitive plus,
Personally I have a negative reaction to the Windows XP interface
graphics, I think the FC5 interface at least as appealing. With the
different themes available. our users are happy they have a choice to
configure the interface, which a stock Windows install has less
latitude and is harder to find for our users.
> That means high-quality art, art that makes people actually *want* to
> look at the screen because it's a significant aesthetic experience.
Graphics are not art. Graphics are the prostitution of art concepts and
techniques to get a specific desired reaction for the benefit of the
party paying for the graphics.
Successful graphics need to have goals established and the success of
the graphics is measured against those goals. Many times looking
"pretty" is a low priority goal for graphics. "Pretty" graphics can be
a pleasant side benefit of successful graphics. When considering the
goals for graphics, it is possible for _one_ of those goals to be
visual appeal.
> But the art problem pales compared to the issue that everyone has been
> ducking, which is Fedora's support for DVDs and proprietary audio and
> video and web-streaming formats and Java applets.
> AVI. Quicktime. ASF. MPEG. DVD playback. Flash. Java. These are
> *not optional* in 2006
Flash is available for x86 Linux with the same licensing terms for the
other OS's Adobe supports. That says Adobe treats Linux on equal
footing to other OS's, or what I could call a level playing field. Why
should Linux get special treatment ? A stock install of Windows does
not include Flash, although it may be bundled by an OEM hardware
manufacturer.
Sun's JRE is available for x86 with the same licensing as other OS's.
Again Linux is treated the same as other OS's, not as a special
stepchild. A stock install of Windows does not include a JRE, or if one
is included it is Microsoft's crusty old thing that is much worse than
the free stack provided with Fedora.
A stock install of Windows does not include DVD, MPEG2, or MPEG4
playback. These are provided by bundles of third party software the
hardware manufacturer includes on top of the OS. Remember, a WMV file
that uses a MPEG4 codec is not a standard MPEG4 file. A file that
adheres to the MPEG4 standard is not playable with WMP as shipped by
MS.
Even on commercial operating systems, video playback is a crapshoot. As
a graphics professional, determining the best digital video format to
use is a project-by-project set of trade-offs. I really don't expect it
to be any easier with Linux. Several of our clients now lean to Flash
video because a player exists for Linux in addition to the other big
two commercial OS's.
<rant>
If I was Michael Dell, I wouldn't be complaining about how many
different Linux distributions there are, I would be putting money into
developing applications that provide this "last mile" media
functionality to Linux, and providing an OS bundle that matches the
functionality provided by the Windows bundles they offer. It is needed,
and there is a business opportunity to provide an out-of-the-box
experience for Linux similar to Windows. It is my opinion that it is
the hardware manufacturer that is to provide the solution to that gap
<emphasis> as it does with other operating systems </emphasis> not the
OS vendor.
</rant>
To look at the media playback "deficiency" from _my_ perspective, I
consider the absence of media players to be an advantage.
Yes, an advantage.
For the same reasons I remove the games installed by default on
Windows, I do not want media players on company systems. I do not want
employee time wasted viewing streaming video or audio. I don't want
employees to watch the telly at work, and I don't want them consuming
other media via the computer in front of them at work either. It is an
unnecessary distraction. I also don't want the liability of digital
media files of unknown source residing on company systems. Those
problems are solved by removing or not providing media players.
In the home environment, that is different, however I don't care what
someone does in their own home. It is possible that Fedora is not
suitable for some home users who require media playback without their
hardware OEM providing it for them in a bundle, like what happens with
commercial OS's. It _is_ suitable in a business environment in its
present form _because_ this media functionality is not present.
Charles Dostale
System Admin - Silver Oaks Communications
http://www.silveroaks.com/
18 years, 1 month
speed up FC 5
by Amit Karpe
Hi all,
How we can speed up FC 5 ?
As we ( in India ) normally have 128 MB RAM and 1GHz to 2 GHz processor .
So any Fedora Core Linux will get slow down on this configuration of m/c .
So how can we twik it to speed up FC 5 .
Thanks.
Amit.
______________________________________________________
param vaibhavam netum etat swaraashtram
samrthaa bhavatwaashishaa tebhrusham
|| Bharat Maata Ki Jay ||
18 years, 1 month
FC5 kernels in updates/testing
by Bojan Smojver
Just out of curiosity, is 2069 testing kernel going to be replaced
with 2080, now that 2.6.16.1 is out?
--
Bojan
18 years, 1 month
Mirrorlist Issues
by Ryan Skadberg
It seems that with FC5, the rawhide mirror list has changed to being
just one round-robin DNS name. This is fine, except that it causes
yum to not be able to retry things on other mirrors, since it just
sees one mirror on the mirror list, so I am constantly getting:
---> Downloading header for gnome-applets-debuginfo to pack into
transaction set.
http://download.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora/linux/core/development/i386/...:
[Errno 14] HTTP Error 404: Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 13:23:01 GMT
Server: Apache/2.0.46 (Red Hat)
Content-Length: 392
Connection: close
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Trying other mirror.
Error: failure: debug/gnome-applets-debuginfo-2.14.0-3.i386.rpm from
development: [Errno 256] No more mirrors to try.
And since there is just the one host on the mirror list, yum dies. If
there were multiple mirrors on the list, it could then try again on
other sites. Since there is only one, it fails once and dies. I get
this CONSTANTLY when trying to update rawhide and usually have to
restart yum 5 to 10 times before I can get all the headers downloaded
and then have to do it another 5-10 times to get the packages
downloaded.
Any chance we can change the mirror list back to being a real list of
mirrors so this problem goes away?
Thanks!
Skadz
18 years, 1 month
Anonymous CVS server not being updated?
by Jason L Tibbitts III
I'm seeing plenty of commits on the fedora-cvs-commits list but those
changes aren't being reflected on the anonymous CVS server. Was
something busted in the shift to the new server?
- J<
18 years, 1 month
kernel 2.6.16-1.2097_FC6 unbootable on Itanium
by Émeric Maschino
Hi,
There's something wrong with kernel 2.6.16-1.2097_FC6. The last displayed
message is "Freeing unused kernel memory: 400kB freed" and then nothing.
kernel-2.6.16-1.2088_FC6 runs fine.
Cheers,
Émeric
18 years, 1 month
Gutenprint core or extras
by Andy Burns
Does anyone know (or have views on) whether Gutenprint 5.x is likely to
directy "upgrade" gimp-print 4.x in FC6, or will it go through Extras first?
18 years, 1 month
Re: Fedora's way forward
by Matthew Swasey
On Tue, 2006-03-28 at 13:36 -0500, sean wrote:
> Why the hell does everyone think we have to take over the world?
> We're just a little open source distribution trying to make
> open source solutions. Why the fuck is that so hard to understand
> without caling someone an idealist?
>
> Sean
>
That's what I want to know. Why is everyone so hell bent on world
domination? This attitude has been around since I first got into Linux
(1995) and I did not understand it then. I use Fedora (and other disros
and BSD) because I like it, I don't care one bit what my friends run on
their computers as long as they are at least somewhat content.
I like what Theo de Raadt (who I've always thought was a little pompous)
had to say in a recent interview about OpenBSD [1]:
"NewsForge: Why should someone use OpenBSD instead of another operating
system, besides security?"
"TdR: I don't really take any position of advocacy. People should use
what they want to, and I am not the right person to say anyone "should"
do anything. But hey, if someone is adventurous, check it out."
I agree with him completely.
-Matt
[1]: http://os.newsforge.com/os/06/03/20/2050223.shtml?tid=8
18 years, 1 month
rawhide report: 20060329 changes
by Build System
Updated Packages:
anaconda-11.1.0.2-1
-------------------
* Tue Mar 28 2006 Chris Lumens <clumens(a)redhat.com> 11.1.0.2-1
- Remove reference to pythondeps.
* Tue Mar 28 2006 Chris Lumens <clumens(a)redhat.com> 11.1.0.1-1
- Prompt for reformatting ancient swap partitions (dcantrel, #122101)
- Fix lots of deprecation warnings (dcantrel)
- Check for suspend signatures in swap (dcantrel, #186018)
- Support logging command in kickstart
- Clean up URLs we try to fetch in the loader
- Fix SELinux conditional inclusion (pjones)
- Remove customClass
- Always ignore disks listed in ignoredisks (#186438)
- Fix loader segmentation fault (#186210)
- Reiser fs label avoidance (dcantrel, #183183)
- Remove traceonly mode
- Add rhpl to minstg2.img (#185840)
- Remove lots of unneeded code in isys, iutil, and elsewhere
(clumens, dcantrel, pnasrat)
arts-8:1.5.2-1
--------------
* Tue Mar 21 2006 Than Ngo <than(a)redhat.com> 8:1.5.2-1
- update to 1.5.2
checkpolicy-1.30.3-1
--------------------
* Tue Mar 28 2006 Dan Walsh <dwalsh(a)redhat.com> - 1.30.3-1
- Latest upgrade from NSA
* Fixed checkmodule to call link_modules prior to expand_module
to handle optionals.
* Fixed require_class to avoid shadowing permissions already defined
in an inherited common definition.
cpio-2.6-17
-----------
* Tue Mar 28 2006 Peter Vrabec <pvrabec(a)redhat.com> 2.6-17
- rebuild
* Sat Mar 25 2006 Peter Vrabec <pvrabec(a)redhat.com> 2.6-15
- fix (#186339) on ppc and s390
* Thu Mar 23 2006 Peter Vrabec <pvrabec(a)redhat.com> 2.6-14
- init struct file_hdr (#186339)
cups-1:1.2-0.2.rc1.2
--------------------
* Tue Mar 28 2006 Tim Waugh <twaugh(a)redhat.com> 1:1.2-0.2.rc1.2
- Fix lpq -h (STR#1515, bug #186686).
gconf-editor-2.14.0-2
---------------------
* Tue Mar 28 2006 Ray Strode <rstrode(a)redhat.com> - 2.14.0-2
- Use gconf_value_free instead of g_free (bug 186479)
glibc-2.4-5
-----------
* Tue Mar 28 2006 Jakub Jelinek <jakub(a)redhat.com> 2.4-5
- update from CVS
- pshared robust mutex support
- fix btowc and bwtoc in C++ (#186410)
- fix NIS+ (#186592)
- don't declare __wcsto*l_internal for non-GCC or if not -O1+ (#185667)
- don't mention nscd failures on 2.0 kernels (#185335)
gnome-applets-1:2.14.0-3
------------------------
* Tue Mar 28 2006 Ray Strode <rstrode(a)redhat.com> - 2.14.0-3
- apply patch
* Tue Mar 28 2006 Ray Strode <rstrode(a)redhat.com> - 2.14.0-2
- export symbols in gswitchit applet so applet plugins
work (bug 187168)
hal-cups-utils-0.5.5-2
----------------------
* Tue Mar 28 2006 John (J5) Palmieri <johnp(a)redhat.com> - 0.5.5-2
- Make sure backends install into /usr/lib and not /usr/lib64
hplip-0.9.10-3
--------------
* Tue Mar 28 2006 Tim Waugh <twaugh(a)redhat.com> 0.9.10-3
- Always use /usr/lib/cups/backend.
* Tue Mar 28 2006 Tim Waugh <twaugh(a)redhat.com> 0.9.10-2
- 0.9.10.
- Ship PPDs.
kdebase-6:3.5.2-1
-----------------
* Sun Mar 26 2006 Than Ngo <than(a)redhat.com> 6:3.5.2-1
- update to 3.5.2
- update dbus patch
- drop kdebase-3.5.1-kwin-systray.patch, kdebase-3.5.1-keyboardlayout.patch,
included in new upstream
kdelibs-6:3.5.2-1
-----------------
* Tue Mar 21 2006 Than Ngo <than(a)redhat.com> 6:3.5.2-1
- update to 3.5.2
kernel-2.6.16-1.2102_FC6
------------------------
* Tue Mar 28 2006 Dave Jones <davej(a)redhat.com>
- 2.6.16-git14 & git15
- reenable sky2.
mc-1:4.6.1a-12
--------------
* Tue Mar 28 2006 Jindrich Novy <jnovy(a)redhat.com> 4.6.1a-12
- apply more robust version of FISH upload patch,
thanks to Dmitry Butskoy (#186456)
policycoreutils-1.30.1-3
------------------------
* Tue Mar 21 2006 Dan Walsh <dwalsh(a)redhat.com> 1.30.1-3
- Add IN_MOVED_TO to catch renames
tcpdump-14:3.9.4-3
------------------
* Tue Mar 28 2006 Martin Stransky <stransky(a)redhat.com> - 14:3.9.4-3
- updated ethernet codes (#186633)
Broken deps for i386
----------------------------------------------------------
GFS-kernel - 2.6.15.1-5.FC5.17.i686 requires /lib/modules/2.6.15-1.2054_FC5
GFS-kernel - 2.6.15.1-5.FC5.17.i686 requires kernel = 0:2.6.15-1.2054_FC5
GFS-kernel-smp - 2.6.15.1-5.FC5.17.i686 requires /lib/modules/2.6.15-1.2054_FC5smp
GFS-kernel-smp - 2.6.15.1-5.FC5.17.i686 requires kernel-smp = 0:2.6.15-1.2054_FC5
GFS-kernel-xen0 - 2.6.15.1-5.FC5.17.i686 requires kernel-xen0 = 0:2.6.15-1.2054_FC5
GFS-kernel-xenU - 2.6.15.1-5.FC5.17.i686 requires /lib/modules/2.6.15-1.2054_FC5xenU
GFS-kernel-xenU - 2.6.15.1-5.FC5.17.i686 requires kernel-xenU = 0:2.6.15-1.2054_FC5
cman-kernel - 2.6.15.1-0.FC5.16.i686 requires /lib/modules/2.6.15-1.2054_FC5
cman-kernel - 2.6.15.1-0.FC5.16.i686 requires kernel = 0:2.6.15-1.2054_FC5
cman-kernel-smp - 2.6.15.1-0.FC5.16.i686 requires /lib/modules/2.6.15-1.2054_FC5smp
cman-kernel-smp - 2.6.15.1-0.FC5.16.i686 requires kernel-smp = 0:2.6.15-1.2054_FC5
cman-kernel-xen0 - 2.6.15.1-0.FC5.16.i686 requires kernel-xen0 = 0:2.6.15-1.2054_FC5
cman-kernel-xenU - 2.6.15.1-0.FC5.16.i686 requires /lib/modules/2.6.15-1.2054_FC5xenU
cman-kernel-xenU - 2.6.15.1-0.FC5.16.i686 requires kernel-xenU = 0:2.6.15-1.2054_FC5
dlm-kernel - 2.6.15.1-0.FC5.14.i686 requires /lib/modules/2.6.15-1.2054_FC5
dlm-kernel - 2.6.15.1-0.FC5.14.i686 requires kernel = 0:2.6.15-1.2054_FC5
dlm-kernel-smp - 2.6.15.1-0.FC5.14.i686 requires /lib/modules/2.6.15-1.2054_FC5smp
dlm-kernel-smp - 2.6.15.1-0.FC5.14.i686 requires kernel-smp = 0:2.6.15-1.2054_FC5
dlm-kernel-xen0 - 2.6.15.1-0.FC5.14.i686 requires kernel-xen0 = 0:2.6.15-1.2054_FC5
dlm-kernel-xenU - 2.6.15.1-0.FC5.14.i686 requires /lib/modules/2.6.15-1.2054_FC5xenU
dlm-kernel-xenU - 2.6.15.1-0.FC5.14.i686 requires kernel-xenU = 0:2.6.15-1.2054_FC5
gnbd-kernel - 2.6.15-5.FC5.23.i686 requires /lib/modules/2.6.15-1.2054_FC5
gnbd-kernel - 2.6.15-5.FC5.23.i686 requires kernel = 0:2.6.15-1.2054_FC5
gnbd-kernel-smp - 2.6.15-5.FC5.23.i686 requires /lib/modules/2.6.15-1.2054_FC5smp
gnbd-kernel-smp - 2.6.15-5.FC5.23.i686 requires kernel-smp = 0:2.6.15-1.2054_FC5
gnbd-kernel-xen0 - 2.6.15-5.FC5.23.i686 requires kernel-xen0 = 0:2.6.15-1.2054_FC5
gnbd-kernel-xenU - 2.6.15-5.FC5.23.i686 requires /lib/modules/2.6.15-1.2054_FC5xenU
gnbd-kernel-xenU - 2.6.15-5.FC5.23.i686 requires kernel-xenU = 0:2.6.15-1.2054_FC5
Broken deps for ia64
----------------------------------------------------------
rgmanager - 1.9.31-3.ia64 requires ccs
Broken deps for ppc64
----------------------------------------------------------
avalon-logkit - 1.2-3jpp_3fc.noarch requires servletapi5
castor-demo - 0.9.5-1jpp_2fc.noarch requires servletapi5
emacs - 21.4-5.ppc64 requires fonts-xorg-75dpi
geronimo-specs - 1.0-0.M2.2jpp_7fc.ppc64 requires servletapi5
hsqldb - 1.80.1-1jpp_8fc.ppc64 requires servletapi5
jakarta-commons-fileupload - 1:1.0-3jpp_5fc.noarch requires servletapi5
jakarta-taglibs-standard - 1.1.1-4jpp_3fc.noarch requires servletapi5 >= 0:5.0.16
struts - 1.2.8-2jpp_9fc.ppc64 requires servletapi5
struts-webapps-tomcat5 - 1.2.8-2jpp_9fc.ppc64 requires tomcat5
velocity - 1.4-3jpp_4fc.noarch requires servletapi5
xalan-j2-demo - 2.6.0-3jpp_9fc.ppc64 requires servletapi5
Broken deps for s390
----------------------------------------------------------
avalon-logkit - 1.2-3jpp_3fc.noarch requires servletapi5
castor-demo - 0.9.5-1jpp_2fc.noarch requires servletapi5
geronimo-specs - 1.0-0.M2.2jpp_7fc.s390 requires servletapi5
hsqldb - 1.80.1-1jpp_8fc.s390 requires servletapi5
jakarta-commons-fileupload - 1:1.0-3jpp_5fc.noarch requires servletapi5
jakarta-taglibs-standard - 1.1.1-4jpp_3fc.noarch requires servletapi5 >= 0:5.0.16
rhythmbox - 0.8.8-2.s390 requires libgstgconf-0.8.so.0
rhythmbox - 0.8.8-2.s390 requires libgstreamer-0.8.so.1
rhythmbox - 0.8.8-2.s390 requires libgstcontrol-0.8.so.1
struts - 1.2.8-2jpp_9fc.s390 requires servletapi5
struts-webapps-tomcat5 - 1.2.8-2jpp_9fc.s390 requires tomcat5
velocity - 1.4-3jpp_4fc.noarch requires servletapi5
xalan-j2-demo - 2.6.0-3jpp_9fc.s390 requires servletapi5
xmlrpc - 2.0.1-1jpp_6fc.s390 requires servletapi5
Broken deps for s390x
----------------------------------------------------------
avalon-logkit - 1.2-3jpp_3fc.noarch requires servletapi5
castor-demo - 0.9.5-1jpp_2fc.noarch requires servletapi5
geronimo-specs - 1.0-0.M2.2jpp_7fc.s390x requires servletapi5
hsqldb - 1.80.1-1jpp_8fc.s390x requires servletapi5
jakarta-commons-fileupload - 1:1.0-3jpp_5fc.noarch requires servletapi5
jakarta-taglibs-standard - 1.1.1-4jpp_3fc.noarch requires servletapi5 >= 0:5.0.16
rhythmbox - 0.8.8-2.s390x requires libgstcontrol-0.8.so.1()(64bit)
rhythmbox - 0.8.8-2.s390x requires libgstgconf-0.8.so.0()(64bit)
rhythmbox - 0.8.8-2.s390x requires libgstreamer-0.8.so.1()(64bit)
struts - 1.2.8-2jpp_9fc.s390x requires servletapi5
struts-webapps-tomcat5 - 1.2.8-2jpp_9fc.s390x requires tomcat5
velocity - 1.4-3jpp_4fc.noarch requires servletapi5
xalan-j2-demo - 2.6.0-3jpp_9fc.s390x requires servletapi5
Broken deps for x86_64
----------------------------------------------------------
GFS-kernel - 2.6.15.1-5.FC5.17.x86_64 requires /lib/modules/2.6.15-1.2054_FC5
GFS-kernel - 2.6.15.1-5.FC5.17.x86_64 requires kernel = 0:2.6.15-1.2054_FC5
cman-kernel - 2.6.15.1-0.FC5.16.x86_64 requires /lib/modules/2.6.15-1.2054_FC5
cman-kernel - 2.6.15.1-0.FC5.16.x86_64 requires kernel = 0:2.6.15-1.2054_FC5
dlm-kernel - 2.6.15.1-0.FC5.14.x86_64 requires /lib/modules/2.6.15-1.2054_FC5
dlm-kernel - 2.6.15.1-0.FC5.14.x86_64 requires kernel = 0:2.6.15-1.2054_FC5
gnbd-kernel - 2.6.15-5.FC5.23.x86_64 requires /lib/modules/2.6.15-1.2054_FC5
gnbd-kernel - 2.6.15-5.FC5.23.x86_64 requires kernel = 0:2.6.15-1.2054_FC5
18 years, 1 month
Re: FC5 kernels in updates/testing
by Bojan Smojver
> Yes, pretend 2069 never happened.
What 2069? ;-)
Seriously, thanks for the update. Looking forward to ACPI CPU
frequency stuff...
--
Bojan
18 years, 1 month