On Tue, 2024-06-11 at 19:48 +0200, Marc Deop i Argemí wrote:
On Tuesday 11 June 2024 14:52:19 CEST Sérgio Basto wrote:
I had enough with you an your attitude. You have been abusing the good will and temperament of many Fedora contributors for too long. Somebody must put a stop to your comments and behavior.
If you can't support X11 together with Wayland on boot.iso , why you want move to Wayland ?
The explanation to this is very clearly explained in the == Detailed Description === section
it is stupid break Linux user experience just because Wayland is fancy ,
Refrain from calling our actions or (implicitly) our contributors _stupid_
I don't want that you deduce that.
OK I 'll try be more inclusive BTW I confused you with user moceap. yeah I think try removing X11 is not right path that is my opinion. And you don't have the right of remove X11 software from Fedora . You aren't adding software, you are trying removing X11 and impose Wayland because, I think, you want that people test wayland, you think if people test more, the things will be fixed by them self but I don't think that is true, see the case of btrfs , still missing core functionalities, hopefully nobody tried to remove ext4. Moreover I won't test wayland, wayland simple is not ready for me. I don't use wayland and I want maintain X11
About benefit to Fedora https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Anaconda_As_Native_Wayland_Applicatio...
- RDP is more secure that VNC ? this is not an argument, and typically is not an honest argument. VNC works over ssh, is more light, is more quick and is better in all aspect that I can think of. So RDP is not a benefit is an escape to VNC problem .
- This change will enable removal of X11 dependencies from the Anaconda which may result in reduction of installed software ? you don't even know if reduce the installed software , so in my conclusion also is not an argument .
So zero benefits to Fedora, on other hand any old computer with a graphic where drives don't support wayland will have problems .
So is the same problem of kde-X11 and is not just me, several people already state the same.
And I'd like discuss this
That is just not acceptable. Period.
What for me is not acceptable disable kwin-x11, just because yes , and give a bunch of work to the others , everywhere forum, discourse , chat , email bugzilla, we have to explain what happened , with X11 , how reinstall X11 , so is just not me .
Not to mention that nobody is breaking any user experience. Your mind is so distorted that whenever you see "Wayland" you get immediately triggered and you fight whatever is going on in the discussion.
The problem is not Wayland , the problem is remove X11, and the x11 experience . If you enable wayland but keep X11 as fallback I hadn't any problem .
what we get with Wayland that we don't get with X11 ?
This has been explained so many times that the fact that you keep asking this over and over and over is just making you look like somebody one cannot have a conversation with.
if you need remove X11 to add Wayland, don't do it ! .
Again, the reasoning has been explained in the == Detailed Description == section
Don't break the other Linux user systems .
Nobody is breaking anything. Stop spreading FUD.
No, is not FUD, because we got this experience in Fedora 40, _all_ old nvidia drives simple don't support wayland .
Is difficult understand that you should not remove components without agreement of everyone ?
yes, sure, like absolutely everything in our society needs to be agreed by 100% of the people. Of course.
Do you realize how non nonsensical that sounds
Until a few weeks ago, there was always agreement and consensus among everyone, here in Fedora, in 20 years I don't remember any discussion like these one.
Linux should support all kind of hardware, if Wayland don't, you should provide at least fall backs , and not just ignore the others .
That is only *your* view. Please explain me why I cannot install Fedora in my AMD K6-2 or my Pentium 200 MMX (because I cannot, it is not supported anymore).
Linux should support all kind of hardware, right? ¯_(ツ)_/¯
:thumbs up:
The removal of X11 from KDE , just because KDE SIG decide without consent of many members of Fedora which contribute to Fedora KDE , should not be acceptable .
Why on earth would you bring this here? I am not sure you can understand how childish you look by doing this sort of thing.
no, that is the main problem is the removal of X11 .
Waste my energy discussing things that should be obvious , make me think if I still should contribute to this project .
If you ask me? Please don't. I personally do not want to deal with contributors with the attitude that you have.
me too , please stop your contributions to Fedora and attempts of remove X11 , you make me miss the previous maintainers a lot .
Like Linus says "DON'T BREAK THE USER SPACE"
Is that supposed to mean anything? Just because the kernel maintainer says something it doesn't mean that is a rule written by the Heavens and The All Mighty and we must follow it.
(for the record, the linux kernel *has* broken userspace in the past. Just saying).
This is a principle that means that you should avoid break things and should provide fallback
(I don't have more time)
Best regards,