* Matthew Garrett mjg@redhat.com [20090417 18:52]:
On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 08:43:28AM -0700, Christopher Stone wrote:
2009/4/16 Jesse Keating jkeating@redhat.com:
On Fri, 2009-04-17 at 01:37 +0500, Suren Karapetyan wrote:
You will not find anyone @RH who will agree that previews behavior was better
On the contrary, you'll likely find many people who work for Red Hat that would prefer the old behavior, they're just not wasting their time by arguing about it on a distribution mailing list.
So what are they doing instead? Absolutely nothing? How ridiculous. Let's just make a bunch of extremely bad decisions and keep bad defaults because actually trying to convince someone that the defaults or decisions people make are bad is pointless.
The people to convince are the maintainers of the code in question, and in the general case sprawling threads on distribution mailing lists aren't a good way to do that. Some worthwhile ideas came out of this discussion and were implemented - however, at this point it's just repeating the same arguments over and over again, and argument ad nauseum is not the most convincing approach.
While I am not a representative figure of the user population, I had a case today where:
* Thunar made a "grab" and I could not click to change focus away. To all intents and purposes, I was in the situation that the contingency for preserving C-A-Bs as enabled by default is holding up as the primary reason.
* Switching to vc/2 gave a blank screen
* My sshd setup is to only allow pub-key auth coming in to my laptop and I did not have the right keys on another system yet set up (that's now rectified), so ssh in to kill Thunar didn't work
I was doing some pretty intricate stuff for several customers in parallel, and shooting the session through C-A-Bs was out of the question *even though it was available as an option to me*.
I ended up logging in on the console "black screen", because I knew there was a login there, and typing blind, I killed thunar off to recover my session and the hours worth of work I had sitting in my session.
So - from my perspective, being one of those hate-object "@RH" people, while C-A-Bs was available, my choice was not to use it because the work was more valuable than the 3-4 minutes to assess the situation and to try a few ways to recover it.
C-A-Bs is akin to Alt-SysRq-C if you have SysRq's enabled. The default setting should be "off" so that people by accident can't trigger it. If you need it - you get to enable it yourself. That is a sensible default for a debug function.
In all else you wrote Matthew, I agree with you.
(And while I have not yet filed a BZ against Thunar, that is forthcoming shortly.)
-- /Anders