F37 proposal: BIOS boot.iso with GRUB2 (System-Wide Change proposal)

[Ben Cotton]

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/BIOSBootISOWithGrub2

This document represents a proposed Change. As part of the Changes
process, proposals are publicly announced in order to receive
community feedback. This proposal will only be implemented if approved
by the Fedora Engineering Steering Committee.

== Summary ==
Modify [https://github.com/weldr/lorax/tree/master/share/templates.d/99-generic
lorax-generic-templates] to use GRUB2 when booting the boot.iso on
BIOS systems, instead of syslinux. Upstream syslinux development is
dead, and the Fedora maintainer would like to drop the package from
the distribution. GRUB2 works as a replacement in most situations and
continues to have upstream support.

== Owner ==
* Name: [[User:bcl| Brian C. Lane]]
* Email: bcl(a)redhat.com


== Detailed Description ==
After the recent discussion surrounding removing BIOS support from the
boot.iso I have modified the templates used to build it to use GRUB2
with help from the xorriso author Thomas Schmitt. In testing so far
this seems to work in the majority of cases, which should be
sufficient to keep Fedora working on most BIOS systems.

== Feedback ==
The community is strongly in favor of continuing to support BIOS
booting for the boot.iso, we figured out how to use GRUB2 instead of
syslinux so that we can continue to support BIOS systems.

== Benefit to Fedora ==
The benefit to Fedora is that it will continue to be available on BIOS
systems, at least until GRUB2 stops supporting it.

== Scope ==
* Proposal owners:
Update lorax-generic-templates to use GRUB2. See the
[https://github.com/weldr/lorax/pull/1226 Lorax PR]

* Other developers:
Pungi uses the boot.iso as the basis for the DVD and may need changes.
I have opened a [https://pagure.io/pungi/issue/1608 Pungi issue] to
track this.

* Release engineering: [https://pagure.io/releng/issues/10788]
* Policies and guidelines: N/A (not needed for this Change)
* Trademark approval: N/A (not needed for this Change)
* Alignment with Objectives:


== Upgrade/compatibility impact ==
This will have no effect on upgrades, it only effects the installation
boot media.

== How To Test ==
Testing can be done with the test iso from
[https://bcl.fedorapeople.org/boot-grub2-f36.iso] or by checking out
the [https://github.com/weldr/lorax/pull/1226 Lorax PR] and running
Lorax from the git repo to build a new boot.iso locally:

 sudo PATH="./src/sbin:$PATH" PYTHONPATH=./src/ ./src/sbin/lorax \
 -p Fedora -v rawhide -r rawhide \
 -s
https://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora/linux/development/rawhide/Everyth...
\
 --logfile=lorax-build.log --sharedir ./share/ --tmp /var/tmp/ \
 ./rawhide-lorax/ |& tee lorax-build-out.log


== User Experience ==
Users will notice that the boot.iso menu is now using GRUB2 when
booting on BIOS and UEFI systems.

== Dependencies ==
Pungi uses Lorax to create the base of the DVD, it then repackages it
without using the templates. These changes may cause problems for that
workflow, an issue has been filed with Pungi for this.

== Contingency Plan ==

* Contingency mechanism: I will revert the changes to the templates
and return to syslinux.
* Contingency deadline: Beta Freeze
* Blocks release? Yes

If the change does not work we can easily fall back to the previous
templates, as long as syslinux is still available.
Without syslinux, and without this change, we will have to remove BIOS
support from the boot.iso as implemented in
[https://github.com/weldr/lorax/pull/1205 this draft PR]

== Documentation ==
There will be documentation included in the Lorax PR.

== Release Notes ==


-- 
Ben Cotton
He / Him / His
Fedora Program Manager
Red Hat
TZ=America/Indiana/Indianapolis

[Steven A. Falco]

+1

My main machine still uses bios boot.

	Steve


On 5/13/22 10:27 AM, Ben Cotton wrote:
>  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/BIOSBootISOWithGrub2
>  
>  This document represents a proposed Change. As part of the Changes
>  process, proposals are publicly announced in order to receive
>  community feedback. This proposal will only be implemented if approved
>  by the Fedora Engineering Steering Committee.
>  
>  == Summary ==
>  Modify [https://github.com/weldr/lorax/tree/master/share/templates.d/99-generic
>  lorax-generic-templates] to use GRUB2 when booting the boot.iso on
>  BIOS systems, instead of syslinux. Upstream syslinux development is
>  dead, and the Fedora maintainer would like to drop the package from
>  the distribution. GRUB2 works as a replacement in most situations and
>  continues to have upstream support.
>  
>  == Owner ==
>  * Name: [[User:bcl| Brian C. Lane]]
>  * Email: bcl(a)redhat.com
>  
>  
>  == Detailed Description ==
>  After the recent discussion surrounding removing BIOS support from the
>  boot.iso I have modified the templates used to build it to use GRUB2
>  with help from the xorriso author Thomas Schmitt. In testing so far
>  this seems to work in the majority of cases, which should be
>  sufficient to keep Fedora working on most BIOS systems.
>  
>  == Feedback ==
>  The community is strongly in favor of continuing to support BIOS
>  booting for the boot.iso, we figured out how to use GRUB2 instead of
>  syslinux so that we can continue to support BIOS systems.
>  
>  == Benefit to Fedora ==
>  The benefit to Fedora is that it will continue to be available on BIOS
>  systems, at least until GRUB2 stops supporting it.
>  
>  == Scope ==
>  * Proposal owners:
>  Update lorax-generic-templates to use GRUB2. See the
>  [https://github.com/weldr/lorax/pull/1226 Lorax PR]
>  
>  * Other developers:
>  Pungi uses the boot.iso as the basis for the DVD and may need changes.
>  I have opened a [https://pagure.io/pungi/issue/1608 Pungi issue] to
>  track this.
>  
>  * Release engineering: [https://pagure.io/releng/issues/10788]
>  * Policies and guidelines: N/A (not needed for this Change)
>  * Trademark approval: N/A (not needed for this Change)
>  * Alignment with Objectives:
>  
>  
>  == Upgrade/compatibility impact ==
>  This will have no effect on upgrades, it only effects the installation
>  boot media.
>  
>  == How To Test ==
>  Testing can be done with the test iso from
>  [https://bcl.fedorapeople.org/boot-grub2-f36.iso] or by checking out
>  the [https://github.com/weldr/lorax/pull/1226 Lorax PR] and running
>  Lorax from the git repo to build a new boot.iso locally:
>  
>    sudo PATH="./src/sbin:$PATH" PYTHONPATH=./src/ ./src/sbin/lorax \
>    -p Fedora -v rawhide -r rawhide \
>    -s
> https://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora/linux/development/rawhide/Everyth...
>  \
>    --logfile=lorax-build.log --sharedir ./share/ --tmp /var/tmp/ \
>    ./rawhide-lorax/ |& tee lorax-build-out.log
>  
>  
>  == User Experience ==
>  Users will notice that the boot.iso menu is now using GRUB2 when
>  booting on BIOS and UEFI systems.
>  
>  == Dependencies ==
>  Pungi uses Lorax to create the base of the DVD, it then repackages it
>  without using the templates. These changes may cause problems for that
>  workflow, an issue has been filed with Pungi for this.
>  
>  == Contingency Plan ==
>  
>  * Contingency mechanism: I will revert the changes to the templates
>  and return to syslinux.
>  * Contingency deadline: Beta Freeze
>  * Blocks release? Yes
>  
>  If the change does not work we can easily fall back to the previous
>  templates, as long as syslinux is still available.
>  Without syslinux, and without this change, we will have to remove BIOS
>  support from the boot.iso as implemented in
>  [https://github.com/weldr/lorax/pull/1205 this draft PR]
>  
>  == Documentation ==
>  There will be documentation included in the Lorax PR.
>  
>  == Release Notes ==
>  
>

[Robbie Harwood]

Ben Cotton <bcotton(a)redhat.com&gt; writes:

>  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/BIOSBootISOWithGrub2
>
>  This document represents a proposed Change. As part of the Changes
>  process, proposals are publicly announced in order to receive
>  community feedback. This proposal will only be implemented if approved
>  by the Fedora Engineering Steering Committee.
>
>  == Summary ==
>  Modify [https://github.com/weldr/lorax/tree/master/share/templates.d/99-generic
>  lorax-generic-templates] to use GRUB2 when booting the boot.iso on
>  BIOS systems, instead of syslinux. Upstream syslinux development is
>  dead, and the Fedora maintainer would like to drop the package from
>  the distribution. GRUB2 works as a replacement in most situations and
>  continues to have upstream support. 
Thanks for the work here, Brian and Thomas!

Be well,
--Robbie

[Adam Williamson]

On Fri, 2022-05-13 at 10:27 -0400, Ben Cotton wrote:
>  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/BIOSBootISOWithGrub2
>  
>  This document represents a proposed Change. As part of the Changes
>  process, proposals are publicly announced in order to receive
>  community feedback. This proposal will only be implemented if approved
>  by the Fedora Engineering Steering Committee.
>  
>  == Summary ==
>  Modify [https://github.com/weldr/lorax/tree/master/share/templates.d/99-generic
>  lorax-generic-templates] to use GRUB2 when booting the boot.iso on
>  BIOS systems, instead of syslinux. Upstream syslinux development is
>  dead, and the Fedora maintainer would like to drop the package from
>  the distribution. GRUB2 works as a replacement in most situations and
>  continues to have upstream support. 
So aside from my comment on the PR, my other note: what about live
images? Don't those use syslinux for BIOS boot too? There doesn't seem
to be any benefit in switching to grub2 only for boot.iso / DVD ISO if
we have to keep maintaining syslinux for live images. Or is the idea
that we'd drop BIOS boot support entirely from live images and people
who want to do BIOS installs are required to use netinst/DVD images?
-- 
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA
IRC: adamw | Twitter: adamw_ha
https://www.happyassassin.net

[Neal Gompa]

On Fri, May 13, 2022 at 1:21 PM Adam Williamson
<adamwill(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote:
>  On Fri, 2022-05-13 at 10:27 -0400, Ben Cotton wrote:
>  > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/BIOSBootISOWithGrub2
>  >
>  > This document represents a proposed Change. As part of the Changes
>  > process, proposals are publicly announced in order to receive
>  > community feedback. This proposal will only be implemented if approved
>  > by the Fedora Engineering Steering Committee.
>  >
>  > == Summary ==
>  > Modify [https://github.com/weldr/lorax/tree/master/share/templates.d/99-generic
>  > lorax-generic-templates] to use GRUB2 when booting the boot.iso on
>  > BIOS systems, instead of syslinux. Upstream syslinux development is
>  > dead, and the Fedora maintainer would like to drop the package from
>  > the distribution. GRUB2 works as a replacement in most situations and
>  > continues to have upstream support.
>
>  So aside from my comment on the PR, my other note: what about live
>  images? Don't those use syslinux for BIOS boot too? There doesn't seem
>  to be any benefit in switching to grub2 only for boot.iso / DVD ISO if
>  we have to keep maintaining syslinux for live images. Or is the idea
>  that we'd drop BIOS boot support entirely from live images and people
>  who want to do BIOS installs are required to use netinst/DVD images? 
Those templates should affect live media too, since I think we use the
same lorax templates for both.



-- 
真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth!

[Brian C. Lane]

On Fri, May 13, 2022 at 10:21:12AM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
>  On Fri, 2022-05-13 at 10:27 -0400, Ben Cotton wrote:
>  > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/BIOSBootISOWithGrub2
>  > 
>  > This document represents a proposed Change. As part of the Changes
>  > process, proposals are publicly announced in order to receive
>  > community feedback. This proposal will only be implemented if approved
>  > by the Fedora Engineering Steering Committee.
>  > 
>  > == Summary ==
>  > Modify [https://github.com/weldr/lorax/tree/master/share/templates.d/99-generic
>  > lorax-generic-templates] to use GRUB2 when booting the boot.iso on
>  > BIOS systems, instead of syslinux. Upstream syslinux development is
>  > dead, and the Fedora maintainer would like to drop the package from
>  > the distribution. GRUB2 works as a replacement in most situations and
>  > continues to have upstream support.
>  
>  So aside from my comment on the PR, my other note: what about live
>  images? Don't those use syslinux for BIOS boot too? There doesn't seem 
The PR includes the same changes for the live iso templates, so they
will also use GRUB2 :)

Brian

-- 
Brian C. Lane (PST8PDT) - weldr.io - lorax - parted - pykickstart

[Adam Williamson]

On Fri, 2022-05-13 at 14:02 -0700, Brian C. Lane wrote:
>  On Fri, May 13, 2022 at 10:21:12AM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
>  > On Fri, 2022-05-13 at 10:27 -0400, Ben Cotton wrote:
>  > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/BIOSBootISOWithGrub2
>  > > 
>  > > This document represents a proposed Change. As part of the Changes
>  > > process, proposals are publicly announced in order to receive
>  > > community feedback. This proposal will only be implemented if approved
>  > > by the Fedora Engineering Steering Committee.
>  > > 
>  > > == Summary ==
>  > > Modify
> [https://github.com/weldr/lorax/tree/master/share/templates.d/99-generic
>  > > lorax-generic-templates] to use GRUB2 when booting the boot.iso on
>  > > BIOS systems, instead of syslinux. Upstream syslinux development is
>  > > dead, and the Fedora maintainer would like to drop the package from
>  > > the distribution. GRUB2 works as a replacement in most situations and
>  > > continues to have upstream support.
>  > 
>  > So aside from my comment on the PR, my other note: what about live
>  > images? Don't those use syslinux for BIOS boot too? There doesn't seem
>  
>  The PR includes the same changes for the live iso templates, so they
>  will also use GRUB2 :) 
I see. In that case, the Change title and description could probably be
updated?
-- 
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA
IRC: adamw | Twitter: adamw_ha
https://www.happyassassin.net