10:15 a.m.
so, upgraded to F23 with "dnf distro-sync" and how do dnf-developers and
the people decided to replace yum at the moment imagine cleanup setups now?
in fact after *every* dist-upgrade there are obsolete packages left
because changed dependencies
[root@rawhide data]# package-cleanup --leaves
Yum-utils package has been deprecated, use dnf instead.
See 'man yum2dnf' for more information.
10:34 a.m.
On Tue, 11 Aug 2015 17:15:58 +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:
so, upgraded to F23 with "dnf distro-sync" and how do
dnf-developers and
the people decided to replace yum at the moment imagine cleanup setups now?
in fact after *every* dist-upgrade there are obsolete packages left
because changed dependencies
[root@rawhide data]# package-cleanup --leaves
Yum-utils package has been deprecated, use dnf instead.
See 'man yum2dnf' for more information.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^
^^
^
(!) Scroll down to the bottom.
10:46 a.m.
Am 11.08.2015 um 17:34 schrieb Michael Schwendt:
On Tue, 11 Aug 2015 17:15:58 +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:
> so, upgraded to F23 with "dnf distro-sync" and how do dnf-developers and
> the people decided to replace yum at the moment imagine cleanup setups now?
>
> in fact after *every* dist-upgrade there are obsolete packages left
> because changed dependencies
>
> [root@rawhide data]# package-cleanup --leaves
> Yum-utils package has been deprecated, use dnf instead.
> See 'man yum2dnf' for more information.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^
^^
^
(!) Scroll down to the bottom
"dnf list autoremove" gives *nothing* while "dnf remove wget" as one
of
many samples could be removed without any deps - so i guess that's just
working with the yumdb/dnfdb and is in *no way* compareable with
"package-cleanup --leaves --all"
"package-cleanup --leaves --all" for years now works perfectly, lists
*any* package which could be unnstalled and so takes care in combination
with own metapackages listing wanted programs as Requires to keep
systems *absolutely* clean
10:48 a.m.
Leaves and autoremove a bit different stuff.. You'd want to use
https://github.com/rpm-software-management/dnf-plugins-extras/blob/master...
On Tue, Aug 11, 2015, 6:46 PM Reindl Harald <h.reindl(a)thelounge.net> wrote:
Am 11.08.2015 um 17:34 schrieb Michael Schwendt:
> On Tue, 11 Aug 2015 17:15:58 +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:
>
>> so, upgraded to F23 with "dnf distro-sync" and how do dnf-developers
and
>> the people decided to replace yum at the moment imagine cleanup setups
now?
>>
>> in fact after *every* dist-upgrade there are obsolete packages left
>> because changed dependencies
>>
>> [root@rawhide data]# package-cleanup --leaves
>> Yum-utils package has been deprecated, use dnf instead.
>> See 'man yum2dnf' for more information.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> ^^^
> ^^
> ^
> (!) Scroll down to the bottom
"dnf list autoremove" gives *nothing* while "dnf remove wget" as one
of
many samples could be removed without any deps - so i guess that's just
working with the yumdb/dnfdb and is in *no way* compareable with
"package-cleanup --leaves --all"
"package-cleanup --leaves --all" for years now works perfectly, lists
*any* package which could be unnstalled and so takes care in combination
with own metapackages listing wanted programs as Requires to keep
systems *absolutely* clean
--
devel mailing list
devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
--
-Igor Gnatenko
10:56 a.m.
Am 11.08.2015 um 17:48 schrieb Igor Gnatenko:
Leaves and autoremove a bit different stuff.. You'd want to use
https://github.com/rpm-software-management/dnf-plugins-extras/blob/master...
i'd want to use Fedora with packages from Fedora and ignored until now
F22, but trying F23 and face that a whole release later the
yum-replacement is still in a early stage makes let me puke
just the "Yum-utils package has been deprecated, use dnf instead. See
'man yum2dnf' for more information." message for a well known command
found in howtos all over the web is a bad user expierience
from a users point of view i still miss a single improvement of that
change - renaming everything, missing features - i want see you
developers responsible for such changes when somebody sells you a car
with the wheel on the backseat and call it a improvement
On Tue, Aug 11, 2015, 6:46 PM Reindl Harald
<h.reindl(a)thelounge.net
<mailto:h.reindl@thelounge.net>> wrote:
Am 11.08.2015 um 17:34 schrieb Michael Schwendt:
> On Tue, 11 Aug 2015 17:15:58 +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:
>
>> so, upgraded to F23 with "dnf distro-sync" and how do
dnf-developers and
>> the people decided to replace yum at the moment imagine cleanup
setups now?
>>
>> in fact after *every* dist-upgrade there are obsolete packages left
>> because changed dependencies
>>
>> [root@rawhide data]# package-cleanup --leaves
>> Yum-utils package has been deprecated, use dnf instead.
>> See 'man yum2dnf' for more information.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> ^^^
> ^^
> ^
> (!) Scroll down to the bottom
"dnf list autoremove" gives *nothing* while "dnf remove wget" as
one of
many samples could be removed without any deps - so i guess that's just
working with the yumdb/dnfdb and is in *no way* compareable with
"package-cleanup --leaves --all"
"package-cleanup --leaves --all" for years now works perfectly, lists
*any* package which could be unnstalled and so takes care in combination
with own metapackages listing wanted programs as Requires to keep
systems *absolutely* clean
11 a.m.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256
Am 11.08.2015 um 17:48 schrieb Igor Gnatenko:
I gave the leaves plugin a try a few minutes ago and all I can say is:
*srsly??*
If I remove all packages listed by the leaves plugin I'd kill my
system. Well done! Not!
- --
Regards,
Heiko Adams
Leaves and autoremove a bit different stuff.. You'd want to use
https://github.com/rpm-software-management/dnf-plugins-extras/blob/mas
ter/plugins/leaves.py
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10:58 a.m.
On Tue, 11 Aug 2015 17:46:28 +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:
>> See 'man yum2dnf' for more information.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> ^^^
> ^^
> ^
> (!) Scroll down to the bottom
"dnf list autoremove" gives *nothing* while "dnf remove wget" as one
of
many samples could be removed without any deps - so i guess that's just
working with the yumdb/dnfdb and is in *no way* compareable with
"package-cleanup --leaves --all"
Noticably, I didn't claim otherwise. I only answered your question. ;-)
And yes, some of the "replacements" are not 100% compatible. I've just
had a bugzilla ticket about "dnf repoquery --whatprovides /usr/lib64" not
reporting anything anymore be closed in a weird way.
11:02 a.m.
Am 11.08.2015 um 17:58 schrieb Michael Schwendt:
On Tue, 11 Aug 2015 17:46:28 +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:
>>> See 'man yum2dnf' for more information.
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> ^^^
>> ^^
>> ^
>> (!) Scroll down to the bottom
>
> "dnf list autoremove" gives *nothing* while "dnf remove wget" as
one of
> many samples could be removed without any deps - so i guess that's just
> working with the yumdb/dnfdb and is in *no way* compareable with
> "package-cleanup --leaves --all"
Noticably, I didn't claim otherwise. I only answered your question. ;-)
no, you did not, bseides dnf/yum "yum autoremove" is by far compareable
with "package cleanup --leaves / package-cleanup --leaves --all"
the yumdb/dnfdb is nothing important and until now you can rm -rf the
whole folder daily because it just wastes space - there is a database
about dependencies and apckages and it's called rpm
And yes, some of the "replacements" are not 100%
compatible. I've just
had a bugzilla ticket about "dnf repoquery --whatprovides /usr/lib64" not
reporting anything anymore be closed in a weird way
well, I'm curious which part of Fedora is damaged next for years.....
11:12 a.m.
On Tue, 11 Aug 2015 18:02:49 +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:
>> "dnf list autoremove" gives *nothing* while
"dnf remove wget" as one of
>> many samples could be removed without any deps - so i guess that's just
>> working with the yumdb/dnfdb and is in *no way* compareable with
>> "package-cleanup --leaves --all"
>
> Noticably, I didn't claim otherwise. I only answered your question. ;-)
no, you did not,
Uh, come on, Harald! Let me quote. You wrote:
| so, upgraded to F23 with "dnf distro-sync" and how do dnf-developers and
| the people decided to replace yum at the moment imagine cleanup setups now?
To which I pointed you at their manual, which explicitly comments on the
"package-cleanup --leaves" command you had tried before.
Now, whether the replacements works or is broken, that's not what you
had asked.
> And yes, some of the "replacements" are not 100%
compatible. I've just
> had a bugzilla ticket about "dnf repoquery --whatprovides /usr/lib64" not
> reporting anything anymore be closed in a weird way
well, I'm curious which part of Fedora is damaged next for years.....
Let's replace Tracker, please. For several days in Rawhide, it crashes
everytime I boot the system.
noon
Am 11.08.2015 um 18:12 schrieb Michael Schwendt:
On Tue, 11 Aug 2015 18:02:49 +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:
>>> "dnf list autoremove" gives *nothing* while "dnf remove
wget" as one of
>>> many samples could be removed without any deps - so i guess that's just
>>> working with the yumdb/dnfdb and is in *no way* compareable with
>>> "package-cleanup --leaves --all"
>>
>> Noticably, I didn't claim otherwise. I only answered your question. ;-)
>
> no, you did not,
Uh, come on, Harald! Let me quote. You wrote:
| so, upgraded to F23 with "dnf distro-sync" and how do dnf-developers and
| the people decided to replace yum at the moment imagine cleanup setups now?
To which I pointed you at their manual, which explicitly comments on the
"package-cleanup --leaves" command you had tried before.
it *is not* a replacement because "yum autoremove" existed and is a
completly different beast
Now, whether the replacements works or is broken, that's not what
you
had asked
Uh, come on, Michael! People usually ask for working things
12:29 p.m.
Reindl Harald composed on 2015-08-11 19:00 (UTC+0200):
Michael Schwendt composed:
> To which I pointed you at their manual, which explicitly comments
on the
> "package-cleanup --leaves" command you had tried before.
it *is not* a replacement because "yum autoremove" existed
and is a
completly different beast
So yum-deprecated autoremove does not preserve the yum functionality?
--
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
12:40 p.m.
Am 11.08.2015 um 19:29 schrieb Felix Miata:
Reindl Harald composed on 2015-08-11 19:00 (UTC+0200):
> Michael Schwendt composed:
>> To which I pointed you at their manual, which explicitly comments on the
>> "package-cleanup --leaves" command you had tried before.
> it *is not* a replacement because "yum autoremove" existed and is a
> completly different beast
So yum-deprecated autoremove does not preserve the yum functionality?
what did you not understand in "yum autoremove existed and is a
completly different beast?" - that is, never was and never will be a
replacement for "package-cleanup --leaves --all"
package-cleanup was never part of yum so it's not part of dnf
it's part of yum-utils which don't exist for dnf
and with F23 there is *one release after* the replacement of YUM
honestly, if i would make such "replacements" i would get fired
instantaneously, even after 12 years and building up the whole software
and infrastructure from scratch
2:17 p.m.
On Tue, 11 Aug 2015 13:29:39 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
Reindl Harald composed on 2015-08-11 19:00 (UTC+0200):
> Michael Schwendt composed:
>> To which I pointed you at their manual, which explicitly comments on the
>> "package-cleanup --leaves" command you had tried before.
> it *is not* a replacement because "yum autoremove" existed and is a
> completly different beast
So yum-deprecated autoremove does not preserve the yum functionality?
If continueing to use packages "yum" and "yum-utils" , what is the
point of calling them "deprecated" and introducing DNF? Deprecated tools
typically are not developed further and receive less maintenance, too.
Eventually, one would like to remove the deprecated tools, but that is
problematic if the "replacements" are not ready.
1:03 p.m.
On 11.08.2015 19:00, Reindl Harald wrote:
Am 11.08.2015 um 18:12 schrieb Michael Schwendt:
> On Tue, 11 Aug 2015 18:02:49 +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:
it *is not* a replacement because "yum autoremove" existed and is a
completly different beast
> Now, whether the replacements works or is broken, that's not what you
> had asked
Uh, come on, Michael! People usually ask for working things
Hello,
Well, I have a opposed opinion from experience. When something is
working, people usually do not write anything :-) When something is not
working, then they have so much things to say. And at the end, when they
bought this not working thing... then people can even bite :-)
I say it generally, without having on mind anybody concrete.
Best regards.
Marcin Haba
1:22 p.m.
Am 11.08.2015 um 20:03 schrieb Marcin Haba:
On 11.08.2015 19:00, Reindl Harald wrote:
>
>
> Am 11.08.2015 um 18:12 schrieb Michael Schwendt:
>> On Tue, 11 Aug 2015 18:02:49 +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:
> it *is not* a replacement because "yum autoremove" existed and is a
> completly different beast
>
>> Now, whether the replacements works or is broken, that's not what you
>> had asked
>
> Uh, come on, Michael! People usually ask for working things
Hello,
Well, I have a opposed opinion from experience. When something is
working, people usually do not write anything :-)
where is the opposed opinion here?
* package-cleanup don't work
* "dnf autoremove" is not a working replacement
maybe you just did not understand "People usually ask for working
things" by miss the context "whether the replacements works or is
broken, that's not what you had asked"
2:17 p.m.
On 11.08.2015 20:22, Reindl Harald wrote:
Am 11.08.2015 um 20:03 schrieb Marcin Haba:
> On 11.08.2015 19:00, Reindl Harald wrote:
>>
>>
>> Am 11.08.2015 um 18:12 schrieb Michael Schwendt:
>>> On Tue, 11 Aug 2015 18:02:49 +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:
>> it *is not* a replacement because "yum autoremove" existed and is a
>> completly different beast
>>
>>> Now, whether the replacements works or is broken, that's not what you
>>> had asked
>>
>> Uh, come on, Michael! People usually ask for working things
>
> Hello,
>
> Well, I have a opposed opinion from experience. When something is
> working, people usually do not write anything :-)
Hello,
where is the opposed opinion here?
maybe you just did not understand "People usually ask for
working
things" by miss the context "whether the replacements works or is
broken, that's not what you had asked"
I am not sure if saying general opinions is connected with any context.
It is just subjective opinion, such like "People usually like driving
cars" or "The best diet is eating a lot of salad.".
Opposed opinions are here:
Your: "People usually ask for working things"
Mine: "People usually ask for not working things".
I did not have nothing bad on mind. I noticed your opinion and I thought
that I can share my opposed opinion here.
OK. stop. The thread becomes off-topic :-)
Best regards.
Marcin Haba
2:22 p.m.
On Tue, 11 Aug 2015 20:22:59 +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:
* package-cleanup don't work
First time you say that.
"package-cleanup --leaves" here certainly prints that lame warning
about being a deprecated tool, but it's still available and finds 84
leaves on Rawhide (such as 43 -debuginfo packages and 33 -devel
packages).
* "dnf autoremove" is not a working replacement
maybe you just did not understand "People usually ask for working
things" by miss the context "whether the replacements works or is
broken, that's not what you had asked"
Well, you specifically asked for what the dnf-developers expect
users to run for doing cleanups. That's what the yum2dnf man page
answers. Whether their replacements all work flawlessly yet,
really has not been the original question.
2:38 p.m.
Am 11.08.2015 um 21:22 schrieb Michael Schwendt:
On Tue, 11 Aug 2015 20:22:59 +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:
> * package-cleanup don't work
First time you say that.
"package-cleanup --leaves" here certainly prints that lame warning
about being a deprecated tool, but it's still available and finds 84
leaves on Rawhide (such as 43 -debuginfo packages and 33 -devel
packages).
well, *i swear* "package-cleanup --leaves --all" did not output anything
except the deperation warning after upgrade and reboot
now it lists packages - interesting
> * "dnf autoremove" is not a working replacement
>
> maybe you just did not understand "People usually ask for working
> things" by miss the context "whether the replacements works or is
> broken, that's not what you had asked"
Well, you specifically asked for what the dnf-developers expect
users to run for doing cleanups. That's what the yum2dnf man page
answers. Whether their replacements all work flawlessly yet,
really has not been the original question.
they can't seriously expect replace a car by a bike
"autoremove" is not dnf specific and works completly different
what scares me is that DNF was introduced in F22 with all the stupidity
renaming instead just keep the name and raise the major version as it
was promised at the very first begin of the story and now a release
later there are still a ton of things are not there
where i work we call a replacement so when it has the same capabilities
and semantics and until that happened we don't replace things
no, don't come with the "it's free software" because the replace every
few months things with half baken other things and permanently changing
semantics is the main reason people don't switch to Linux - frankly, i
can't recommend anybody switch from Windows to fedora when i know that
after people learned how to deal with the system needless, user visible
changes are introduced
3217
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6 participants
participants (6)
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Felix Miata -
Heiko Adams -
Igor Gnatenko -
Marcin Haba -
Michael Schwendt -
Reindl Harald