Possibly off topic: Slack will discontinue packaging for Fedora

[Gordon Messmer]

https://slack.com/help/articles/115002037526-System-requirements-for-usin...

"Note: Starting March 1, 2022, Slack will no longer support Fedora Linux 
distributions."

I don't know if that's of interest to Fedora, as an organization, but on 
the off-chance that it is: Is anyone in a position to ask someone at 
Slack about that decision?  And whether there's anything that Fedora can 
do to make publishing that package more feasible?

[Gwyn Ciesla]

I believe the flatpak on flathub is built on Ubuntu, so there's that, but yes, this is
odd and potentially unfortunate.




\--


Gwyn Ciesla


she/her/hers


\------------------------------------------------


in your fear, seek only peace


in your fear, seek only love


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Sent from ProtonMail mobile



\-------- Original Message --------
On Nov 4, 2021, 7:23 PM, Gordon Messmer < gordon.messmer(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:

>  https://slack.com/help/articles/115002037526-System-requirements-for-usin...
>
>  "Note: Starting March 1, 2022, Slack will no longer support Fedora Linux
>  distributions."
>
>  I don't know if that's of interest to Fedora, as an organization, but on
>  the off-chance that it is: Is anyone in a position to ask someone at
>  Slack about that decision? And whether there's anything that Fedora can
>  do to make publishing that package more feasible?
>
> \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_
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[JT]

As someone who has to use Slack for work, this is disappointing, but
at least there is still a flatpak for Slack:
https://www.flathub.org/apps/details/com.slack.Slack

On Thu, Nov 4, 2021 at 8:24 PM Gordon Messmer <gordon.messmer(a)gmail.com&gt;
wrote:

>  https://slack.com/help/articles/115002037526-System-requirements-for-usin...
>
>  "Note: Starting March 1, 2022, Slack will no longer support Fedora Linux
>  distributions."
>
>  I don't know if that's of interest to Fedora, as an organization, but on
>  the off-chance that it is: Is anyone in a position to ask someone at
>  Slack about that decision?  And whether there's anything that Fedora can
>  do to make publishing that package more feasible?
>  _______________________________________________
>  devel mailing list -- devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  Fedora Code of Conduct:
>  https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
>  List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
>  List Archives:
>  https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail]
>  Do not reply to spam on the list, report it:
>  https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
>

[Sérgio Basto]

as root 
dnf install dpkg 
dpkg --force-depends -i slack-desktop-4.21.1-amd64.deb
desktop-file-install ./usr/share/applications/slack.desktop 

works for me ,

is a "standalone" package we can check with :
dpkg-deb --fsys-tarfile slack-desktop-4.21.1-amd64.deb | tar tf - 



On Thu, 2021-11-04 at 20:35 -0400, JT wrote:
>  As someone who has to use Slack for work, this is disappointing, but
>  at least there is still a flatpak for Slack:
>  https://www.flathub.org/apps/details/com.slack.Slack
>  
>  On Thu, Nov 4, 2021 at 8:24 PM Gordon Messmer
>  <gordon.messmer(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>  > https://slack.com/help/articles/115002037526-System-requirements-for-usin...
>  > 
>  > "Note: Starting March 1, 2022, Slack will no longer support Fedora
>  > Linux 
>  > distributions."
>  > 
>  > I don't know if that's of interest to Fedora, as an organization,
>  > but
>  > on 
>  > the off-chance that it is: Is anyone in a position to ask someone
>  > at 
>  > Slack about that decision?  And whether there's anything that
>  > Fedora
>  > can 
>  > do to make publishing that package more feasible?
>  > _______________________________________________
>  > devel mailing list -- devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  > Fedora Code of Conduct:
>  > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
>  > List Guidelines:
>  > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
>  > List Archives:
>  > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail]
>  > Do not reply to spam on the list, report it:
>  > https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
>  _______________________________________________
>  devel mailing list -- devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  Fedora Code of Conduct:
>  https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
>  List Guidelines:
>  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
>  List Archives:
>  https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail]
>  Do not reply to spam on the list, report it:
>  https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure 
-- 
Sérgio M. B.

[Joe Doss]

On 11/4/21 7:23 PM, Gordon Messmer wrote:
>  I don't know if that's of interest to Fedora, as an
> organization, but on 
>  the off-chance that it is: Is anyone in a position to ask someone at 
>  Slack about that decision?  And whether there's anything that Fedora can 
>  do to make publishing that package more feasible? 
I have had an open support ticket for over 6 months with Slack Support 
about idle detection being totally broken since Fedora 33 on GNOME + 
Wayland with their RPM. Slack stopped detecting when I was idle on my 
workstations and it would never send notifications to mobile devices. 
They responded recently this was working as intended(?) and tried to 
close the ticket which was a real bummer. Fortunately The flatpak works 
just fine.

It would be cool if we could rally some sort of support on our end to 
help Slack produce a functioning RPM.

Joe



-- 
Joe Doss
joe(a)solidadmin.com

[Joe Doss]

On 11/4/21 8:55 PM, Joe Doss wrote:
>  It would be cool if we could rally some sort of support on our end to
>
>  help Slack produce a functioning RPM. 
I hit up some buds that used to work at Slack to see if they can help 
connect us with some folks there to work this out.

Joe



-- 
Joe Doss
joe(a)solidadmin.com

[Benson Muite]

The Mattermost client is open source and will connect to Slack. There 
are a number of packages in copr:
https://copr.fedorainfracloud.org/coprs/fulltext/?fulltext=mattermost

[Joe Doss]

On 11/5/21 12:41 AM, Benson Muite wrote:
>  The Mattermost client is open source and will connect to Slack. There
>
>  are a number of packages in copr:
>  https://copr.fedorainfracloud.org/coprs/fulltext/?fulltext=mattermost 
Thanks for the suggestion but I prefer the official client for work.

Joe



-- 
Joe Doss
joe(a)solidadmin.com

[Vitaly Zaitsev]

On 05/11/2021 07:04, Joe Doss wrote:
>  Thanks for the suggestion but I prefer the official client for work.
You can also use the official Web version in any modern web browser 
(Firefox or Chromium).

-- 
Sincerely,
   Vitaly Zaitsev (vitaly(a)easycoding.org)

[Vitaly Zaitsev]

On 05/11/2021 01:23, Gordon Messmer wrote:
>  I don't know if that's of interest to Fedora, as an
> organization, but on 
>  the off-chance that it is: Is anyone in a position to ask someone at 
>  Slack about that decision?  And whether there's anything that Fedora can 
>  do to make publishing that package more feasible? 
Always use Flatpaks with maximum isolation for such proprietary software.

-- 
Sincerely,
   Vitaly Zaitsev (vitaly(a)easycoding.org)

[Gordon Messmer]

On 11/4/21 17:23, Gordon Messmer wrote:
>  I don't know if that's of interest to Fedora, as an
> organization, but 
>  on the off-chance that it is: Is anyone in a position to ask someone 
>  at Slack about that decision?  And whether there's anything that 
>  Fedora can do to make publishing that package more feasible?  

To put a finer point on this: I'm not asking how I can run Slack, or how 
other people run or use Slack.  Those are questions I would ask on the 
user list.

What I'm asking is whether Fedora, as an organization, is interested in 
working with prominent vendors to determine whether there are barriers 
to publishing software for Fedora, or whether they perceive insufficient 
value in doing so.  And, beyond those questions, is there anything we 
can do as an organization to help change that situation?

[Matthew Miller]

On Fri, Nov 05, 2021 at 10:24:22AM -0700, Gordon Messmer wrote:
>  What I'm asking is whether Fedora, as an organization, is
> interested
>  in working with prominent vendors to determine whether there are
>  barriers to publishing software for Fedora, or whether they perceive
>  insufficient value in doing so.  And, beyond those questions, is
>  there anything we can do as an organization to help change that
>  situation? 
I've got thoughts! :)

1. I think we have some historical wariness of this, because a while ago, we
put in a big effort around this and it failed. See
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ISV_Special_Interest_Group, which currently
says "This page was last edited on 12 June 2010, at 22:15." (It won't in a
second, as I'm adding the {{old}} macro right now...). Former FPL Greg DeKoenigsberg
has some thoughts on why this failed, written about two years after that.
https://gregdekspeaks.wordpress.com/2012/01/06/why-the-fedora-isv-sig-nev...

2. Market share is hard and vendors have to make hard choices with their
limited resources. We're growing, but Ubuntu is still the dominent desktop
Linux flavor. The best thing to convince vendors is customers — paying
customers — demanding it. So, if you're using Slack in a professional
context, and can help make your voice known, that does a lot more than me
reaching out to them. (Which, by the way, I did.)

3. Probably Council Discussion
https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/c/project/council-discuss/60 is a
better venue than devel-list for non-development Fedora Project
organizational-goal topics. I mean, not that this is bad, just that's
_definitely_ good.


-- 
Matthew Miller
<mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;
Fedora Project Leader

[Mat Booth]

On Fri, 5 Nov 2021 at 17:41, Matthew Miller <mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote:
>  On Fri, Nov 05, 2021 at 10:24:22AM -0700, Gordon Messmer wrote:
>  > What I'm asking is whether Fedora, as an organization, is interested
>  > in working with prominent vendors to determine whether there are
>  > barriers to publishing software for Fedora, or whether they perceive
>  > insufficient value in doing so.  And, beyond those questions, is
>  > there anything we can do as an organization to help change that
>  > situation?
>
>  I've got thoughts! :)
>
>  1. I think we have some historical wariness of this, because a while ago, we
>  put in a big effort around this and it failed. See
>  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ISV_Special_Interest_Group, which currently
>  says "This page was last edited on 12 June 2010, at 22:15." (It won't in a
>  second, as I'm adding the {{old}} macro right now...). Former FPL Greg DeKoenigsberg
>  has some thoughts on why this failed, written about two years after that.
>  https://gregdekspeaks.wordpress.com/2012/01/06/why-the-fedora-isv-sig-nev...
>  
After being a flatpak app maintainer for a few years, Greg's article
was well worth the reread. Flatpak has really nailed some of these
points (e.g. targeting all distros with a single build/release
process, binary dependency predictability, etc)... From an ISV
perspective Flatpak is a *much* better value for money prospect than
in-distro packaging.


-- 
Mat Booth
http://fedoraproject.org/get-fedora

[Stephen John Smoogen]

On Fri, 5 Nov 2021 at 13:25, Gordon Messmer <gordon.messmer(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>  On 11/4/21 17:23, Gordon Messmer wrote:
>  > I don't know if that's of interest to Fedora, as an organization, but
>  > on the off-chance that it is: Is anyone in a position to ask someone
>  > at Slack about that decision?  And whether there's anything that
>  > Fedora can do to make publishing that package more feasible?
>
>
>  To put a finer point on this: I'm not asking how I can run Slack, or how
>  other people run or use Slack.  Those are questions I would ask on the
>  user list.
>
>  What I'm asking is whether Fedora, as an organization, is interested in
>  working with prominent vendors to determine whether there are barriers
>  to publishing software for Fedora, or whether they perceive insufficient
>  value in doing so.  And, beyond those questions, is there anything we
>  can do as an organization to help change that situation?
>  
I believe those need to be tied into a couple of other questions
1. How does any organization work with these various prominent vendors?
2. What are the interests of said vendors and what are they focusing
on for customer growth?

Once those questions have been answered, then we can ask
3. Why did these prominent vendors decide to focus on OS A and B
versus A and B and C and ...
4. What barriers are there for making it work for OS C/D/E/F

Slack is now owned by Salesforce which will have specific monetary
goals for what they want the sub company to focus on. In the past
there was a large focus on getting everyone possible to use the
product and there is now going to be more focus on paying customers.
If we want a port focused for our OS, there need to be significant
paying customers who are using Fedora.

-- 
Stephen J Smoogen.
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Flame wars in
sci.astro.orion. I have seen SPAM filters overload because of Godwin's
Law. All those moments will be lost in time... like posts on a BBS...
time to shutdown -h now.

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Stephen John Smoogen writes:

>  I believe those need to be tied into a couple of other questions
>  1. How does any organization work with these various prominent vendors? 
I doubt that this is a very useful question as stated.  Even
near-peers like Red Hat itself and Ubuntu are probably corporate
customers of Slack.  Is Fedora?  If not, that's going to color the
conversation a different hue (ie, the answer may be the same, but I
bet they'll try a lot harder to soften the wording), even though all
of these organizations are also going to be representing a user base.

So I would say to focus on closer peers like Centos and Debian as
(a) better case studies and (b) potential allies.

Your other three questions are right on.

>  2. What are the interests of said vendors and what are they focusing
>  on for customer growth?
>  3. Why did these prominent vendors decide to focus on OS A and B
>  versus A and B and C and ...
>  4. What barriers are there for making it work for OS C/D/E/F 
Steve