4:52 p.m.
On 25/10/2020 22:47, Leigh Scott wrote:
There is already a fork of youtube-dl removing the critical parts, maybe
we should switch if Fedora has to remove original youtube-dl for legal
reasons: https://github.com/l1ving/youtube-dl
Greetings,
Christian
6:13 p.m.
On Sun, Oct 25, 2020 at 10:52 PM Christian Dersch
<lupinix.fedora(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On 25/10/2020 22:47, Leigh Scott wrote:
> See
>
> https://github.com/github/dmca/blob/master/2020/10/2020-10-23-RIAA.md
There is already a fork of youtube-dl removing the critical parts, maybe
we should switch if Fedora has to remove original youtube-dl for legal
reasons: https://github.com/l1ving/youtube-dl
Greetings,
Christian
IANAL, but maybe we should not speculate about such things on the devel list?
Fabio
3:18 a.m.
I don't know what IANAL means but sounds rude...
On Mon, 26 Oct 2020 at 00:14, Fabio Valentini <decathorpe(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, Oct 25, 2020 at 10:52 PM Christian Dersch
<lupinix.fedora(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On 25/10/2020 22:47, Leigh Scott wrote:
> > See
> >
> > https://github.com/github/dmca/blob/master/2020/10/2020-10-23-RIAA.md
>
>
> There is already a fork of youtube-dl removing the critical parts, maybe
> we should switch if Fedora has to remove original youtube-dl for legal
> reasons: https://github.com/l1ving/youtube-dl
>
> Greetings,
>
> Christian
IANAL, but maybe we should not speculate about such things on the devel
list?
Fabio
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4:47 a.m.
On Mon, 2020-10-26 at 08:33 +0000, Leigh Scott wrote:
> I don't know what IANAL means but sounds rude...
>
>
>
> On Mon, 26 Oct 2020 at 00:14, Fabio Valentini
> <decathorpe(a)gmail.com> wrote:
LOL :-)
IANAL=I am not a lawyer
you may install wtf [1] (part of bsd-games package) and query aboutthis acronym [2]
[1]
dnf install /usr/bin/wtf
[2]
wtf IANAL
IANAL: I am not a lawyer
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--
Sérgio M. B.
11:16 a.m.
New subject: bsd wtf (was Re: youtube-dl Copyright Violations)
On Mon, 26 Oct 2020 09:47:42 +0000
Sérgio Basto <sergio(a)serjux.com> wrote:
On Mon, 2020-10-26 at 08:33 +0000, Leigh Scott wrote:
> > I don't know what IANAL means but sounds rude...
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 26 Oct 2020 at 00:14, Fabio Valentini
> > <decathorpe(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> LOL :-)
>
> IANAL=I am not a lawyer
you may install wtf [1] (part of bsd-games package) and query
aboutthis acronym [2]
[1]
dnf install /usr/bin/wtf
[2]
wtf IANAL
IANAL: I am not a lawyer
I did not know that was a thing but I'm happy to know it now.
To save some time in case someone else is curious and ends up going
down the same rabbit hole I did:
There is a maintained upstream for bsd-games [1] that has effectively
forked the old codebase and trimmed out some of the bits which are not
quite games including wtf (the readme says "outdated acronym lookup. We
have Google now."). However, the fedora package doesn't appear to built
from the new upstream, still using 2.17 as a base which still has wtf
instead of the new upstream's 3.x.
[1] https://github.com/msharov/bsd-games
The ftp site that is often credited for being the upstream url for
bsd-games [2] isn't working for me at the moment but I don't know if
that's just temporary.
[2] ftp://metalab.unc.edu/pub/Linux/games/
There is a sourceforge project [3] which mirrors NetBSD's updates to
the wtf acronym database. That acronym database in NetBSD [4] is still
regularly updated and the sourceforge project is still seeing updates.
[3] https://sourceforge.net/projects/bsdwtf/
[4] http://cvsweb.netbsd.org/bsdweb.cgi/src/share/misc/acronyms
Tim
12:32 p.m.
New subject: bsd wtf (was Re: youtube-dl Copyright Violations)
On Mon, Oct 26, 2020, at 12:16 PM, Tim Flink wrote:
There is a maintained upstream for bsd-games [1] that has effectively
forked the old codebase and trimmed out some of the bits which are not
quite games including wtf (the readme says "outdated acronym lookup. We
have Google now."). However, the fedora package doesn't appear to built
from the new upstream, still using 2.17 as a base which still has wtf
instead of the new upstream's 3.x.
wtf, why isn't it updated?
12:46 p.m.
New subject: bsd wtf (was Re: youtube-dl Copyright Violations)
On Mon, 26 Oct 2020 at 13:33, Colin Walters <walters(a)verbum.org> wrote:
On Mon, Oct 26, 2020, at 12:16 PM, Tim Flink wrote:
>
> There is a maintained upstream for bsd-games [1] that has effectively
> forked the old codebase and trimmed out some of the bits which are not
> quite games including wtf (the readme says "outdated acronym lookup. We
> have Google now."). However, the fedora package doesn't appear to built
> from the new upstream, still using 2.17 as a base which still has wtf
> instead of the new upstream's 3.x.
wtf, why isn't it updated?
I am not sure if there is a missing :) to say if this was a joke on the
fact that the bsd-games isn't updated to the latest and would then lose
wtf.. or if it is a serious question. For the serious answer...
I am guessing the lack of updates has to do with the history of bsd-games
not being 'solid'. I believe the 'upstream' is one of several forks of
the
original code which used to be on metalab from times long ago. Different
distributions have used different versions at different times so it isn't
always clear which one is the 'real' bsd-games. Some of the forks have made
large changes to ui and game layout and some of them had code which may or
may not be really BSD code. Either one of those can cause either screams of
outrage.
--
Stephen J Smoogen.
2:47 p.m.
New subject: bsd wtf (was Re: youtube-dl Copyright Violations)
On Mon, Oct 26, 2020, at 1:46 PM, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
On Mon, 26 Oct 2020 at 13:33, Colin Walters <walters(a)verbum.org> wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 26, 2020, at 12:16 PM, Tim Flink wrote:
> >
> > There is a maintained upstream for bsd-games [1] that has effectively
> > forked the old codebase and trimmed out some of the bits which are not
> > quite games including wtf (the readme says "outdated acronym lookup. We
> > have Google now."). However, the fedora package doesn't appear to
built
> > from the new upstream, still using 2.17 as a base which still has wtf
> > instead of the new upstream's 3.x.
>
> wtf, why isn't it updated?
I am not sure if there is a missing :) to say if this was a joke
It was a joke :)
6:10 a.m.
New subject: bsd wtf (was Re: youtube-dl Copyright Violations)
On Mon, 2020-10-26 at 10:16 -0600, Tim Flink wrote:
On Mon, 26 Oct 2020 09:47:42 +0000
Sérgio Basto <sergio(a)serjux.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 2020-10-26 at 08:33 +0000, Leigh Scott wrote:
> > > I don't know what IANAL means but sounds rude...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, 26 Oct 2020 at 00:14, Fabio Valentini
> > > <decathorpe(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > LOL :-)
> >
> > IANAL=I am not a lawyer
>
> you may install wtf [1] (part of bsd-games package) and query
> aboutthis acronym [2]
>
> [1]
> dnf install /usr/bin/wtf
>
> [2]
> wtf IANAL
>
> IANAL: I am not a lawyer
I did not know that was a thing but I'm happy to know it now.
To save some time in case someone else is curious and ends up going
down the same rabbit hole I did:
There is a maintained upstream for bsd-games [1] that has effectively
forked the old codebase and trimmed out some of the bits which are
not
quite games including wtf (the readme says "outdated acronym lookup.
We
have Google now."). However, the fedora package doesn't appear to
built
from the new upstream, still using 2.17 as a base which still has wtf
instead of the new upstream's 3.x.
[1] https://github.com/msharov/bsd-games
The ftp site that is often credited for being the upstream url for
bsd-games [2] isn't working for me at the moment but I don't know if
that's just temporary.
[2] ftp://metalab.unc.edu/pub/Linux/games/
There is a sourceforge project [3] which mirrors NetBSD's updates to
the wtf acronym database. That acronym database in NetBSD [4] is
still
regularly updated and the sourceforge project is still seeing
updates.
[3] https://sourceforge.net/projects/bsdwtf/
[4] http://cvsweb.netbsd.org/bsdweb.cgi/src/share/misc/acronyms
Hi,
wtf was updated to wtf version 20200829 a few weeks ago
I use the files from https://sourceforge.net/projects/bsdwtf/, which is
updated by the person who updates
http://cvsweb.netbsd.org/bsdweb.cgi/src/share/misc/acronyms
Due to the lack of time, bsdwtf is still in the bsd-games package.
Thanks for letting me know about this new upstream , but the only thing
I want to keep from the bsd-games package is wtf, because it is super
useful when someone writes an acronym that I don't know yet and I also
think acronyms is a super useful tool to communicate :).
Best regards,
--
Sérgio M. B.
4:53 a.m.
On 25.10.2020 22:47, Leigh Scott wrote:
Self-censorship is the worst thing in the world. We shouldn't do
anything with this.
--
Sincerely,
Vitaly Zaitsev (vitaly(a)easycoding.org)
5 a.m.
If you check the fork and what has been removed,
it will be obvious how this happened
On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 11:54 AM Vitaly Zaitsev via devel
<devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org> wrote:
>
> On 25.10.2020 22:47, Leigh Scott wrote:
> > https://github.com/github/dmca/blob/master/2020/10/2020-10-23-RIAA.md
>
> Self-censorship is the worst thing in the world. We shouldn't do
> anything with this.
>
> --
> Sincerely,
> Vitaly Zaitsev (vitaly(a)easycoding.org)
> _______________________________________________
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5:23 a.m.
On 26.10.2020 11:00, Damian Ivanov wrote:
If you check the fork and what has been removed,
it will be obvious how this happened
Yes, they removed some tests and links from the README. But I think the
package maintainer should wait for upstream reaction first. The new fork
is owned by third-parties and hosted on GitHub again, so it can be
blocked again.
I think the upstream should switch from GitHub to another hosting, for
example self-hosted Gitea on their own server.
--
Sincerely,
Vitaly Zaitsev (vitaly(a)easycoding.org)
5:28 a.m.
Well if some tests do download copyrighted material,
I wonder how this has become blocked in the first place...
On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 12:24 PM Vitaly Zaitsev via devel
<devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org> wrote:
>
> On 26.10.2020 11:00, Damian Ivanov wrote:
> > If you check the fork and what has been removed,
> > it will be obvious how this happened
>
> Yes, they removed some tests and links from the README. But I think the
> package maintainer should wait for upstream reaction first. The new fork
> is owned by third-parties and hosted on GitHub again, so it can be
> blocked again.
>
> I think the upstream should switch from GitHub to another hosting, for
> example self-hosted Gitea on their own server.
>
> --
> Sincerely,
> Vitaly Zaitsev (vitaly(a)easycoding.org)
> _______________________________________________
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6:13 a.m.
On 26.10.2020 11:28, Damian Ivanov wrote:
Well if some tests do download copyrighted material,
I wonder how this has become blocked in the first place...
I think upstream can easily move the tests to a separate repository and
remove the copyrighted URLs from the documentation.
--
Sincerely,
Vitaly Zaitsev (vitaly(a)easycoding.org)
6:32 a.m.
On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 12:13:07PM +0100, Vitaly Zaitsev via devel wrote:
On 26.10.2020 11:28, Damian Ivanov wrote:
>Well if some tests do download copyrighted material,
>I wonder how this has become blocked in the first place...
I think upstream can easily move the tests to a separate repository and
remove the copyrighted URLs from the documentation.
IANAL, but I think that the crux of the RIAA's request is that the offending
code used as an evidence of copyright-circumventing nature of the source
code as a whole, so it's not that simple for
having-h264-codec-in-a-separate-repository-for-legal-reasons Fedora.
And this is indeed up to legal, may be youtube-dl RPM have
to be a downloader for the actual source code now to be legally clean,
or something.
7:54 a.m.
On 26.10.2020 12:32, Eugene Syromiatnikov wrote:
IANAL, but I think that the crux of the RIAA's request is that
the offending
code used as an evidence of copyright-circumventing nature of the source
code as a whole, so it's not that simple
Next time they will try to block all torrent clients, then media players
and even web browsers, because all of them can be used to download/play
copyrighted content.
And this is indeed up to legal, may be youtube-dl RPM have
to be a downloader for the actual source code now to be legally clean,
or something.
Or just moved to RPM Fusion.
--
Sincerely,
Vitaly Zaitsev (vitaly(a)easycoding.org)
5:29 a.m.
On 26/10/2020 10:53, Vitaly Zaitsev via devel wrote:
On 25.10.2020 22:47, Leigh Scott wrote:
> https://github.com/github/dmca/blob/master/2020/10/2020-10-23-RIAA.md
Self-censorship is the worst thing in the world. We shouldn't do
anything with this.
I've recently made some suggestions about using IPFS as part of the
packaging workflow[1]
Fedora could then publish a list of banned RPMs by IPFS hash. People
can use that list to filter what they install on their system if it is
applicable to them.
For example, the RIAA could volunteer to maintain a list of all banned
packages, they could even publish that list in IPFS too.
To give an example of how that might be relevant in this case:
- the source code appears in IPFS (they even have instructions to
push[2] a Git repo into IPFS), this creates one of the hashes for RIAA
to put on their blacklist, then they don't have to make a huge list of
forks like they have in the takedown notice
- somebody else creates a spec file as another object in IPFS
- somebody creates an SRPM, that is in IPFS too
- somebody creates and signs binary RPMs, putting them in IPFS
- the hashes for all these things are tracked centrally
Regards,
Daniel
1. https://danielpocock.com/distributed-packaging-workflow/
2. https://docs.ipfs.io/how-to/host-git-style-repo/
6:09 a.m.
On 26.10.2020 11:29, Daniel Pocock wrote:
I've recently made some suggestions about using IPFS as part of
the
packaging workflow[1]
Censorship is evil. If the copyright holders complain about any
packages, they should be moved to RPM Fusion repository.
We don't need any registries at all. Don't make their life easier.
--
Sincerely,
Vitaly Zaitsev (vitaly(a)easycoding.org)
6:40 a.m.
On 26/10/2020 12:09, Vitaly Zaitsev via devel wrote:
On 26.10.2020 11:29, Daniel Pocock wrote:
> I've recently made some suggestions about using IPFS as part of the
> packaging workflow[1]
Censorship is evil. If the copyright holders complain about any
packages, they should be moved to RPM Fusion repository.
We don't need any registries at all. Don't make their life easier.
Notice that what I proposed provides opt-in censorship. People can use
the list from RIAA if they need to but nobody is forced to use the list.
That is not the same as silently censoring things.
IPFS ensures that both the content and the blacklist is distributed as
widely as possible so any developer can view and audit the banned
content to verify if it should really be on the blacklist.
7:52 a.m.
On 26.10.2020 12:40, Daniel Pocock wrote:
Notice that what I proposed provides opt-in censorship. People can
use
the list from RIAA if they need to but nobody is forced to use the list.
That is not the same as silently censoring things.
Such a list would make it much easier to block applications/packages.
Next time they will try to block all torrent clients, then media players
and even web browsers.
We just need to follow the standard DMCA procedure:
1. copyright holders **must** submit full copyright infringing URLs;
2. The Law team will review these requests.
--
Sincerely,
Vitaly Zaitsev (vitaly(a)easycoding.org)
7:48 a.m.
Le lun. 26 oct. 2020 à 12:10, Vitaly Zaitsev via devel
<devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org> a écrit :
On 26.10.2020 11:29, Daniel Pocock wrote:
> I've recently made some suggestions about using IPFS as part of the
> packaging workflow[1]
Censorship is evil. If the copyright holders complain about any
packages, they should be moved to RPM Fusion repository.
As the RPM Fusion project coordinator, I wouldn't assume such a
solution as a given.
This can be eventually discussed. But I, as someone already stated,
please don't assume legal discussion to be headed here in the fedora
devel list.
Also please remember that rpmfusion is respectful for copyrights in
"european right acceptance".
4:16 a.m.
Am 25.10.20 um 22:47 schrieb Leigh Scott:
youtube-dl src is reachable again( for now ):
https://github.com/github/dmca/tree/416da574ec0df3388f652e44f7fe71b1e3a4701f
pulling this stunt is a hart punch in someones face ;)
personally, I don't see an end to youtube-dl in the near future. As one
only needs to place the executable archive at a specific position,
it will survive, even if distros drop the packages.
best regards,
Marius Schwarz
3:41 p.m.
Am 25.10.20 um 22:47 schrieb Leigh Scott:
Githubs CEO has contacted the youtube-dl devs to help them getting
theire repo back online:
http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdot/~3/4zuP1Ce7AJU/riaas-youtube...
best regards,
Marius
1274
days inactive
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24 comments
14 participants
participants (14)
-
Christian Dersch -
Colin Walters -
Damian Ivanov -
Daniel Pocock -
Eugene Syromiatnikov -
Fabio Valentini -
Leigh Scott -
Marius Schwarz -
Nicolas Chauvet -
Silvia Sánchez -
Stephen John Smoogen -
Sérgio Basto -
Tim Flink -
Vitaly Zaitsev