Packages RFC

[George Garvey]

For my own purposes, I'm going to package:
	prcs
	qmail
	distcc
	gcc to mingw cross-compiler
	fltk
I doubt qmail is of interest to Fedora, but what about the others? Want
them passed on?

[Jos Vos]

On Sun, Oct 26, 2003 at 09:11:30AM -0800, George Garvey wrote:

>  For my own purposes, I'm going to package:
>  	prcs
>  	qmail
>  	distcc
>  	gcc to mingw cross-compiler
>  	fltk
>  I doubt qmail is of interest to Fedora, but what about the others? Want
>  them passed on? 
Qmail has a non-Open Source license.

-- 
--    Jos Vos <jos(a)xos.nl&gt;
--    X/OS Experts in Open Systems BV   |   Phone: [phone]
--    Amsterdam, The Netherlands        |     Fax: [phone]

[Konstantin Ryabitsev]

On Sun, 2003-10-26 at 12:21, Jos Vos wrote:
>  > I doubt qmail is of interest to Fedora, but what about the
> others? Want
>  > them passed on?
>  
>  Qmail has a non-Open Source license. 
Allow me to add to that. The Qmail license strictly prohibits
distribution of modified sources, and the same goes for binaries. This
makes distribution of qmail for modern-day systems downright impossible,
since Qmail does not compile at all on gcc-3.x. There is a patch that
works around this problem, but, of course, one is not allowed to
distribute binaries with this patch applied, so distributing legal
binaries for a gcc-3 based system is therefore impossible. If this
sounds nuts -- it is.

(e.g. see http://linux.duke.edu/~icon/misc/qmail/debacle.html for a very
lively conversation that I had with the qmail-dist list when I was
looking to become a distributor myself. There are some real pearls in
there).

Due to its murky and restrictive license, I'm pretty sure that Qmail
will never appear in Fedora Core.

I myself would like to get out of distributing it, but that involves a
migration effort. :)

Regards,
-- 
Konstantin Riabitsev <icon(a)linux.duke.edu&gt;
Linux@DUKE

[Matt Jarjoura]

Is there a way to fork QMail and make it a side project of Fedora?

>  On Sun, 2003-10-26 at 12:21, Jos Vos wrote:
> > > I doubt qmail is of interest to Fedora, but what about the others?
> > Want
> > > them passed on?
> >
> > Qmail has a non-Open Source license.
>
>  Allow me to add to that. The Qmail license strictly prohibits
>  distribution of modified sources, and the same goes for binaries. This
>  makes distribution of qmail for modern-day systems downright impossible,
>  since Qmail does not compile at all on gcc-3.x. There is a patch that
>  works around this problem, but, of course, one is not allowed to
>  distribute binaries with this patch applied, so distributing legal
>  binaries for a gcc-3 based system is therefore impossible. If this
>  sounds nuts -- it is.
>
>  (e.g. see http://linux.duke.edu/~icon/misc/qmail/debacle.html for a very
>  lively conversation that I had with the qmail-dist list when I was
>  looking to become a distributor myself. There are some real pearls in
>  there).
>
>  Due to its murky and restrictive license, I'm pretty sure that Qmail
>  will never appear in Fedora Core.
>
>  I myself would like to get out of distributing it, but that involves a
>  migration effort. :)
>
>  Regards,
>  --
>  Konstantin Riabitsev <icon(a)linux.duke.edu&gt;
>  Linux@DUKE
>
>
>  --
>  fedora-devel-list mailing list
>  fedora-devel-list(a)redhat.com
>  http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
>  

--
Matt Jarjoura

[Jos Vos]

On Sun, Oct 26, 2003 at 03:02:58PM -0500, Matt Jarjoura wrote:

>  Is there a way to fork QMail and make it a side project of Fedora?
License-wise: no.

-- 
--    Jos Vos <jos(a)xos.nl&gt;
--    X/OS Experts in Open Systems BV   |   Phone: [phone]
--    Amsterdam, The Netherlands        |     Fax: [phone]

[Michael A. Koziarski]

Jos Vos wrote:
>  On Sun, Oct 26, 2003 at 03:02:58PM -0500, Matt Jarjoura wrote:
>  
>  
> >Is there a way to fork QMail and make it a side project of Fedora?
>  
>  
>  License-wise: no. 

The qmail license situation is a bit of a mess.  What would be nice is a 
guide to migrating to something that *can* be distributed by modern 
distributions.

I currently have several gigabytes of my family's mail in hundreds of 
qmail Maildirs.  An MDA that can read those as is, or can provide 
conversion scripts, would be greatly appreciated.  Plus it will help 
people migrate to a more official fedora-core setup.

Does anyone have any ideas?

Cheers

Koz

[Matt Jarjoura]

Well there exists that QMail Toaster project which forks Qmail quite a bit
towards a pretty industrious email system.

It's a shame that qmail is in such a mess, the source itself hasn't been
updated in 2 years.  *sigh*

LOL, any influential people on this list who can get that Dan guy to move
over to BSD or GPL license?? :-)

-Matt

>  Jos Vos wrote:
> > On Sun, Oct 26, 2003 at 03:02:58PM -0500, Matt Jarjoura wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Is there a way to fork QMail and make it a side project of Fedora?
> >
> >
> > License-wise: no.
>
>
>  The qmail license situation is a bit of a mess.  What would be nice is a
>  guide to migrating to something that *can* be distributed by modern
>  distributions.
>
>  I currently have several gigabytes of my family's mail in hundreds of
>  qmail Maildirs.  An MDA that can read those as is, or can provide
>  conversion scripts, would be greatly appreciated.  Plus it will help
>  people migrate to a more official fedora-core setup.
>
>  Does anyone have any ideas?
>
>  Cheers
>
>  Koz
>
>
>
>  --
>  fedora-devel-list mailing list
>  fedora-devel-list(a)redhat.com
>  http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
>  

--
Matt Jarjoura

[Warren Togami]

On Sun, 2003-10-26 at 10:35, Matt Jarjoura wrote:
>  Well there exists that QMail Toaster project which forks Qmail quite
> a bit
>  towards a pretty industrious email system.
>  
>  It's a shame that qmail is in such a mess, the source itself hasn't been
>  updated in 2 years.  *sigh*
>  
>  LOL, any influential people on this list who can get that Dan guy to move
>  over to BSD or GPL license?? :-)
>  
>  -Matt 
Last I looked at qmail toaster SRPMS maybe two months ago, they were
absolutely unacceptable in quality.

Warren

[Leonid Mamchenkov]

Dear "Michael A. Koziarski",

Once you wrote about "Re: Packages RFC":
MAK> Jos Vos wrote:
MAK> >On Sun, Oct 26, 2003 at 03:02:58PM -0500, Matt Jarjoura wrote:
MAK> >>Is there a way to fork QMail and make it a side project of Fedora?
MAK> >License-wise: no.
MAK> 
MAK> The qmail license situation is a bit of a mess.  What would be nice is a 
MAK> guide to migrating to something that *can* be distributed by modern 
MAK> distributions.
MAK> 
MAK> I currently have several gigabytes of my family's mail in hundreds of 
MAK> qmail Maildirs.  An MDA that can read those as is, or can provide 
MAK> conversion scripts, would be greatly appreciated.  Plus it will help 
MAK> people migrate to a more official fedora-core setup.
MAK> 
MAK> Does anyone have any ideas?

Have you looked into Exim ( http://www.exim.org ) ?

-- 
Best regards,
  Leonid Mamtchenkov, RHCE
  System Administrator
  Francoudi & Stephanou Ltd.

[Warren Togami]

On Sun, 2003-10-26 at 23:20, Michael A. Koziarski wrote:
>  The qmail license situation is a bit of a mess.  What would be nice
> is a 
>  guide to migrating to something that *can* be distributed by modern 
>  distributions.
>  
>  I currently have several gigabytes of my family's mail in hundreds of 
>  qmail Maildirs.  An MDA that can read those as is, or can provide 
>  conversion scripts, would be greatly appreciated.  Plus it will help 
>  people migrate to a more official fedora-core setup.
>  
>  Does anyone have any ideas? 
All of my friends still using qmail absolutely refuse to migrate because
they are using vpopmail.  vpopmail itself is an abomination for
packagers for several reasons, and it requires qmail for some aspect of
its function.  Sure it works with postfix, but it still requires qmail
installed if you insist on using it with postfix.

Warren

[Wil Cooley]

On Mon, 2003-10-27 at 01:20, Michael A. Koziarski wrote:

>  I currently have several gigabytes of my family's mail in
> hundreds of 
>  qmail Maildirs.  An MDA that can read those as is, or can provide 
>  conversion scripts, would be greatly appreciated.  Plus it will help 
>  people migrate to a more official fedora-core setup.
>  
>  Does anyone have any ideas? 
I believe that Postfix can deliver to Maildirs, and Dovecot can be used
to access them over IMAP/POP.

Wil
-- 
Wil Cooley                                 wcooley(a)nakedape.cc
Naked Ape Consulting                        http://nakedape.cc
* * * * * * * Good, fast and cheap: Pick all 3! * * * * * * *
*   Naked Ape Consulting                http://nakedape.cc  *

[George Garvey]

>  On Mon, 2003-10-27 at 01:20, Michael A. Koziarski wrote:
>  I believe that Postfix can deliver to Maildirs, and Dovecot can be used
>  to access them over IMAP/POP. 
Will Postfix handle qmail's hyphenated delivery? I personally have too
many mailing lists using that feature right now. Don't want the work of
switching them all over to something else.

[Jeremy Portzer]

On Sun, 2003-10-26 at 18:11, George Garvey wrote:
>  > On Mon, 2003-10-27 at 01:20, Michael A. Koziarski wrote:
>  > I believe that Postfix can deliver to Maildirs, and Dovecot can be used
>  > to access them over IMAP/POP.
>  
>  Will Postfix handle qmail's hyphenated delivery? I personally have too
>  many mailing lists using that feature right now. Don't want the work of
>  switching them all over to something else. 
What is hyphenated delivery?  I googled and didn't find anything that
seemed to make sense.  (Feel free to point me to the FM.)

I know that postfix can be configured to support things like
jeremyp+fedora(a)example.com, and then deliver to the "jeremyp" mailbox so
that you can sort on the To: line.  Is that what you mean?

--Jeremy

-- 
/---------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Jeremy Portzer       jeremyp(a)pobox.com       trilug.org/~jeremy     |
| GPG Fingerprint: 712D 77C7 AB2D 2130 989F  E135 6F9F F7BC CC1A 7B92 |
\---------------------------------------------------------------------/

[George Garvey]

On Sun, Oct 26, 2003 at 06:38:25PM -0500, Jeremy Portzer wrote:
>  On Sun, 2003-10-26 at 18:11, George Garvey wrote:
>  > Will Postfix handle qmail's hyphenated delivery? I personally have too
>  > many mailing lists using that feature right now. Don't want the work of
>  > switching them all over to something else.
>  
>  What is hyphenated delivery?  I googled and didn't find anything that
>  seemed to make sense.  (Feel free to point me to the FM.)
>  
>  I know that postfix can be configured to support things like
>  jeremyp+fedora(a)example.com, and then deliver to the "jeremyp" mailbox so
>  that you can sort on the To: line.  Is that what you mean? 
More or less. qmail does it with hyphens. See my from address. Believe
qmail actually calls them "extension addresses." Had to look that up.
Wouldn't be surprised that Postfix did it, but differently. Maybe there's
compatibility in there samewhere. Will look into that when have time.

All of this is pretty irrelevant. Don't expect Fedora or Redhat to ever
support qmail, and can certainly understand not doing it. At the time qmail
was started here, it was a better alternative than sendmail, and there
weren't that many choices.

[seth vidal]

>  More or less. qmail does it with hyphens. See my from address.
> Believe
>  qmail actually calls them "extension addresses." Had to look that up.
>  Wouldn't be surprised that Postfix did it, but differently. Maybe there's
>  compatibility in there samewhere. Will look into that when have time.
>  
>  All of this is pretty irrelevant. Don't expect Fedora or Redhat to ever
>  support qmail, and can certainly understand not doing it. At the time qmail
>  was started here, it was a better alternative than sendmail, and there
>  weren't that many choices. 
postfix can do this too with regexp for aliases.

-sv

[Wil Cooley]

On Sun, 2003-10-26 at 16:38, George Garvey wrote:

>  More or less. qmail does it with hyphens. See my from address.
> Believe
>  qmail actually calls them "extension addresses." Had to look that up.
>  Wouldn't be surprised that Postfix did it, but differently. Maybe there's
>  compatibility in there samewhere. Will look into that when have time. 
Yes.  By default it uses '+', but it can be changed by setting
'recipient_delimiter'.

Wil
-- 
Wil Cooley                                 wcooley(a)nakedape.cc
Naked Ape Consulting                        http://nakedape.cc
* * * * * * * Good, fast and cheap: Pick all 3! * * * * * * *
*   Naked Ape Consulting                http://nakedape.cc  *

[Nicolas Mailhot]

Le dim 26/10/2003 à 22:57, Wil Cooley a écrit :
>  On Mon, 2003-10-27 at 01:20, Michael A. Koziarski wrote:
>  
>  > I currently have several gigabytes of my family's mail in hundreds of 
>  > qmail Maildirs.  An MDA that can read those as is, or can provide 
>  > conversion scripts, would be greatly appreciated.  Plus it will help 
>  > people migrate to a more official fedora-core setup.
>  > 
>  > Does anyone have any ideas?
>  
>  I believe that Postfix can deliver to Maildirs, and Dovecot can be used
>  to access them over IMAP/POP. 
I'm using this here (in fact fetchmail -> postfix -> procmail ->
spamassassin -> maildir -> dovecot). And it's a real pleasure, much more
than wu imap ever was (did you say rebuild to change a config option ?)

You can skip the procmail -> spamassassin bit if you want, postfix can
deliver directly to maildir.

Cheers,

-- 
Nicolas Mailhot

[George Garvey]

I really appreciate the info about Postfix. It was very helpful.

I won't be responding to anything more list mails on the subject of Postfix
or qmail, though. This is really the wrong list for such things, and you've
all been very gracious.

[Tom Diehl]

On Mon, 27 Oct 2003, Michael A. Koziarski wrote:

>  I currently have several gigabytes of my family's mail in
> hundreds of 
>  qmail Maildirs.  An MDA that can read those as is, or can provide 
>  conversion scripts, would be greatly appreciated.  Plus it will help 
>  people migrate to a more official fedora-core setup.
>  
>  Does anyone have any ideas? 
Postfix!!

-- 
......Tom		Registered Linux User #14522	http://counter.li.org
tdiehl(a)rogueind.com	My current SpamTrap ------->	mtd123(a)rogueind.com

[Gordon Messmer]

Michael A. Koziarski wrote:
>  
>  The qmail license situation is a bit of a mess.  What would be nice is a 
>  guide to migrating to something that *can* be distributed by modern 
>  distributions.
>  
>  I currently have several gigabytes of my family's mail in hundreds of 
>  qmail Maildirs.  An MDA that can read those as is, or can provide 
>  conversion scripts, would be greatly appreciated. 

Consider Courier:
http://www.courier-mta.org/

It's extremely similar to qmail in its function and configuration.  Migration
should be very easy.  It was for me.

On Sun, 26 Oct 2003, Konstantin Riabitsev wrote:

>  On Sun, 2003-10-26 at 12:21, Jos Vos wrote:
>  > > I doubt qmail is of interest to Fedora, but what about the others? Want
>  > > them passed on?
>  > 
>  > Qmail has a non-Open Source license.
>  
>  Allow me to add to that. The Qmail license strictly prohibits
>  distribution of modified sources, and the same goes for binaries. 
I believe that Debian works around this by distributing the equivalent of a
src.rpm that wget's the qmail source as part of the build process.

>  Regards, 
Best Regards,
Alex.

[Nicolas Mailhot]

Le dim 26/10/2003 à 21:58, rhldevel(a)assursys.co.uk a écrit :
>  On Sun, 26 Oct 2003, Konstantin Riabitsev wrote:
>  
>  > On Sun, 2003-10-26 at 12:21, Jos Vos wrote:
>  > > > I doubt qmail is of interest to Fedora, but what about the others? Want
>  > > > them passed on?
>  > > 
>  > > Qmail has a non-Open Source license.
>  > 
>  > Allow me to add to that. The Qmail license strictly prohibits
>  > distribution of modified sources, and the same goes for binaries.
>  
>  I believe that Debian works around this by distributing the equivalent of a
>  src.rpm that wget's the qmail source as part of the build process. 
Then just redistribute a src.rpm or even a nosrc.rpm only.

Automated remote download during build process is plain ugly (and
dangerous).

Cheers,

-- 
Nicolas Mailhot

[Dams]

If you're ever interested, fltk has been published in fedora.us some
days ago.

	D

Le dim 26/10/2003 à 18:11, George Garvey a écrit :
>  For my own purposes, I'm going to package:
>  	prcs
>  	qmail
>  	distcc
>  	gcc to mingw cross-compiler
>  	fltk
>  I doubt qmail is of interest to Fedora, but what about the others? Want
>  them passed on? 
-- 
         Dams Nadé
Anvil/Anvilou on irc.freenode.net : #Linux-Fr, #Fedora
I am looking for a job : http://livna.org/~anvil/cv.php
"Dona Nobis Pacem E Dona Eis Requiem". Noir.

[Michael Schwendt]

On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 09:11:30 -0800, George Garvey wrote:

>  For my own purposes, I'm going to package:
>  	prcs
>  	qmail
>  	distcc
>  	gcc to mingw cross-compiler
>  	fltk
>  I doubt qmail is of interest to Fedora, but what about the others? Want
>  them passed on? 
Until Fedora Extras gets alive, FLTK has been packaged at fedora.us
already. But usually there is much opportunity for team-work or taking
over a package if you'd like to. Just talk to the current packager.

--