On 2/26/20 6:59 PM, Daniel Pocock wrote:
On 26/02/2020 22:56, Dakota Williams wrote:
On 2/24/20 5:57 PM, Daniel Pocock wrote:
On 24/02/2020 20:47, Dakota Williams wrote:
Does anyone know how to contact maintainer pocock?
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1806708 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1790674
Like most developers, I have a backlog of things to deal with and I try to coordinate fixes for packaging issues into the right part of the release cycle
Would you like help? I'd be willing to be a co-maintainer to make the branch.
Yes, I would welcome help with these packages
But there is also an increasing problem of making decisions about trust
In the case of developers who I haven't met or worked with, I don't really know how to proceed
I've seen several extraordinary examples of developers doing things that undermine my confidence in them over the last couple of years. The fighting within GNU and FSF right now is the latest iteration of that.
Now, whenever I receive a request from somebody I don't know, there is an extra effort for me to decide how to proceed.
Maybe I can simply resign from maintaining the asio package and then opt out of the process of choosing a new maintainer.
Please don't take this personally: it is a reflection of the overall state of free software communities today.
I don't know about the situation with the GNU project and the FSF, but if there's something you'd like me to do to prove trust, I could do it.
On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 17:07:21 -0500, Dakota Williams via devel wrote:
On 2/26/20 6:59 PM, Daniel Pocock wrote:
<snip> > > > > Would you like help? I'd be willing to be a co-maintainer to make the > > branch. > > Yes, I would welcome help with these packages > > But there is also an increasing problem of making decisions about trust > > In the case of developers who I haven't met or worked with, I don't > really know how to proceed > > I've seen several extraordinary examples of developers doing things that > undermine my confidence in them over the last couple of years. The > fighting within GNU and FSF right now is the latest iteration of that. > > Now, whenever I receive a request from somebody I don't know, there is > an extra effort for me to decide how to proceed. > > Maybe I can simply resign from maintaining the asio package and then opt > out of the process of choosing a new maintainer. > > Please don't take this personally: it is a reflection of the overall > state of free software communities today. > I don't know about the situation with the GNU project and the FSF, but if there's something you'd like me to do to prove trust, I could do it.
I'd like to add that by default we trust each other, in the spirit of being excellent to each other. In this particular case, co-maintainership shares responsibility but does not hand it over completely (the handing-over bit can be done at a later stage, if necessary). Every change/commit/message is public, so there are plenty of opportunities to catch any errors.
Given that we do not often meet our Fedora colleagues in person, it is not viable to expect members of the community to prove trustworthiness through personal relationships. We assume the best in each other, and if things do get hairy, we have open community channels, processes, and overseeing bodies through which changes can be emended.
Please excuse me going completely offtopic here - for some reason I'm getting this thread addressed directly to me. If someone's adding me as bcc please don't, I have nothing to do with this.
Thanks, Radka
------------------------------ *Radka Janeková (she/her)* .NET Core QE Lead, Red Hat *radka.janek@redhat.com radka.janek@redhat.com* IRC: radka | Freenode: Rhea
On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 10:02 AM Ankur Sinha sanjay.ankur@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 17:07:21 -0500, Dakota Williams via devel wrote:
On 2/26/20 6:59 PM, Daniel Pocock wrote:
<snip> > > > > Would you like help? I'd be willing to be a co-maintainer to make the > > branch. > > Yes, I would welcome help with these packages > > But there is also an increasing problem of making decisions about trust > > In the case of developers who I haven't met or worked with, I don't > really know how to proceed > > I've seen several extraordinary examples of developers doing things
that
undermine my confidence in them over the last couple of years. The fighting within GNU and FSF right now is the latest iteration of that.
Now, whenever I receive a request from somebody I don't know, there is an extra effort for me to decide how to proceed.
Maybe I can simply resign from maintaining the asio package and then
opt
out of the process of choosing a new maintainer.
Please don't take this personally: it is a reflection of the overall state of free software communities today.
I don't know about the situation with the GNU project and the FSF, but if there's something you'd like me to do to prove trust, I could do it.
I'd like to add that by default we trust each other, in the spirit of being excellent to each other. In this particular case, co-maintainership shares responsibility but does not hand it over completely (the handing-over bit can be done at a later stage, if necessary). Every change/commit/message is public, so there are plenty of opportunities to catch any errors.
Given that we do not often meet our Fedora colleagues in person, it is not viable to expect members of the community to prove trustworthiness through personal relationships. We assume the best in each other, and if things do get hairy, we have open community channels, processes, and overseeing bodies through which changes can be emended.
-- Thanks, Regards, Ankur Sinha "FranciscoD" (He / Him / His) | https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Ankursinha Time zone: Europe/London _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Hi Daniel,
I would like to add to Ankur's point: while I understand that many of us are doing Fedora work voluntarily and the expectations should be set accordingly, I believe we should be open to accept help when we realise that we cannot realistically commit enough time to the project. In case of asio, I have contacted you back in 2018 [1][2]. The pull request I have filed [3] has been opened since. The situation with asio right now is that Fedora with its asio-1.10.8 is not only behind arch and gentoo (both at 1.14.0), but also behind debian buster (at 1.12.2). Resiprocate, which is what was holding back asio update, has been retired due to FTBFS, then unorphaned at your request, and then retired again after being orphaned for 6+ weeks [4]. There has not been a successful build of resiprocate since 2016 [5]. Again, I perfectly understand that you have a backlog and that updating asio is not on top on your priority list. Being sceptical about co-maintainership offers seems counter-productive though, as there are things which need fixing and other people willing to step in.
Best regards, Julian
[1] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1551800#c2 [2] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1638081#c2 [3] https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/asio/pull-request/1 [4] https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/resiprocate/commits/master [5] https://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/packageinfo?packageID=15875
On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 1:23 PM Julian Sikorski belegdol@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Daniel,
I would like to add to Ankur's point: while I understand that many of us are doing Fedora work voluntarily and the expectations should be set accordingly, I believe we should be open to accept help when we realise that we cannot realistically commit enough time to the project. In case of asio, I have contacted you back in 2018 [1][2]. The pull request I have filed [3] has been opened since. The situation with asio right now is that Fedora with its asio-1.10.8 is not only behind arch and gentoo (both at 1.14.0), but also behind debian buster (at 1.12.2). Resiprocate, which is what was holding back asio update, has been retired due to FTBFS, then unorphaned at your request, and then retired again after being orphaned for 6+ weeks [4]. There has not been a successful build of resiprocate since 2016 [5]. Again, I perfectly understand that you have a backlog and that updating asio is not on top on your priority list. Being sceptical about co-maintainership offers seems counter-productive though, as there are things which need fixing and other people willing to step in.
Hello Daniel,
I would like to suggest that given our community and its modus operandi, I think it would be unfair to automatically be suspicious of the work fellow packagers are trying to do to help you. But, if it helps, I'd be willing to assist with the asio package. Hopefully, my track record speaks for itself, in terms of maintaining packages in Fedora and contributing to various aspects of the Project. I also sponsored Dakota (the OP who asked you about asio), and I have been mentoring him on how to interact with the larger Fedora community and I was the one who encouraged him to reach out to you on asio for EPEL 8.
If you feel you are no longer able to give it the attention it needs, I would respectfully request you transfer the ownership to Dakota, who is interested in maintaining the package. If you have some concern with him maintaining it, feel free to transfer the package to me instead. Failing that, please just orphan the package so someone can take care of it in your stead.
Thanks in advance, and thank you for being a member of the Fedora community.
Best regards, Neal
-
Ankur Sinha -
Dakota Williams -
Julian Sikorski -
Neal Gompa -
Radka Janekova