Re: Non-responsive maintainer: pocock

[Dakota Williams]

On 2/26/20 6:59 PM, Daniel Pocock wrote:
>  
>  
>  On 26/02/2020 22:56, Dakota Williams wrote:
> > On 2/24/20 5:57 PM, Daniel Pocock wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> On 24/02/2020 20:47, Dakota Williams wrote:
> >>> Does anyone know how to contact maintainer pocock?
> >>>
> >>> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1806708
> >>> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1790674
> >>
> >>
> >> Like most developers, I have a backlog of things to deal with and I try
> >> to coordinate fixes for packaging issues into the right part of the
> >> release cycle
> >>
> >
> > Would you like help? I'd be willing to be a co-maintainer to make the
> > branch.
>  
>  Yes, I would welcome help with these packages
>  
>  But there is also an increasing problem of making decisions about trust
>  
>  In the case of developers who I haven't met or worked with, I don't
>  really know how to proceed
>  
>  I've seen several extraordinary examples of developers doing things that
>  undermine my confidence in them over the last couple of years.  The
>  fighting within GNU and FSF right now is the latest iteration of that.
>  
>  Now, whenever I receive a request from somebody I don't know, there is
>  an extra effort for me to decide how to proceed.
>  
>  Maybe I can simply resign from maintaining the asio package and then opt
>  out of the process of choosing a new maintainer.
>  
>  Please don't take this personally: it is a reflection of the overall
>  state of free software communities today.
>   
I don't know about the situation with the GNU project and the FSF, but 
if there's something you'd like me to do to prove trust, I could do it.

Non-responsive maintainer: pocock

[Ankur Sinha]

On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 17:07:21 -0500, Dakota Williams via devel wrote:
>  On 2/26/20 6:59 PM, Daniel Pocock wrote:
>  <snip>
>  > > 
>  > > Would you like help? I'd be willing to be a co-maintainer to make the
>  > > branch.
>  > 
>  > Yes, I would welcome help with these packages
>  > 
>  > But there is also an increasing problem of making decisions about trust
>  > 
>  > In the case of developers who I haven't met or worked with, I don't
>  > really know how to proceed
>  > 
>  > I've seen several extraordinary examples of developers doing things that
>  > undermine my confidence in them over the last couple of years.  The
>  > fighting within GNU and FSF right now is the latest iteration of that.
>  > 
>  > Now, whenever I receive a request from somebody I don't know, there is
>  > an extra effort for me to decide how to proceed.
>  > 
>  > Maybe I can simply resign from maintaining the asio package and then opt
>  > out of the process of choosing a new maintainer.
>  > 
>  > Please don't take this personally: it is a reflection of the overall
>  > state of free software communities today.
>  > 
>  I don't know about the situation with the GNU project and the FSF, but if
>  there's something you'd like me to do to prove trust, I could do it. 
I'd like to add that by default we trust each other, in the spirit of
being excellent to each other. In this particular case,
co-maintainership shares responsibility but does not hand it over
completely (the handing-over bit can be done at a later stage, if
necessary). Every change/commit/message is public, so there are plenty
of opportunities to catch any errors.

Given that we do not often meet our Fedora colleagues in person, it is
not viable to expect members of the community to prove trustworthiness
through personal relationships. We assume the best in each other, and if
things do get hairy, we have open community channels, processes, and
overseeing bodies through which changes can be emended.

-- 
Thanks,
Regards,
Ankur Sinha "FranciscoD" (He / Him / His) |
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Ankursinha
Time zone: Europe/London

Non-responsive maintainer: pocock

[Radka Janekova]

Please excuse me going completely offtopic here - for some reason I'm
getting this thread addressed directly to me. If someone's adding me as bcc
please don't, I have nothing to do with this.

Thanks,
Radka

------------------------------
*Radka Janeková (she/her)*
.NET Core QE Lead, Red Hat
*radka.janek(a)redhat.com <radka.janek(a)redhat.com&gt;*
IRC: radka | Freenode: Rhea



On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 10:02 AM Ankur Sinha <sanjay.ankur(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:

>  On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 17:07:21 -0500, Dakota Williams via devel
> wrote:
>  > On 2/26/20 6:59 PM, Daniel Pocock wrote:
>  > <snip>
>  > > >
>  > > > Would you like help? I'd be willing to be a co-maintainer to make the
>  > > > branch.
>  > >
>  > > Yes, I would welcome help with these packages
>  > >
>  > > But there is also an increasing problem of making decisions about trust
>  > >
>  > > In the case of developers who I haven't met or worked with, I don't
>  > > really know how to proceed
>  > >
>  > > I've seen several extraordinary examples of developers doing things
>  that
>  > > undermine my confidence in them over the last couple of years.  The
>  > > fighting within GNU and FSF right now is the latest iteration of that.
>  > >
>  > > Now, whenever I receive a request from somebody I don't know, there is
>  > > an extra effort for me to decide how to proceed.
>  > >
>  > > Maybe I can simply resign from maintaining the asio package and then
>  opt
>  > > out of the process of choosing a new maintainer.
>  > >
>  > > Please don't take this personally: it is a reflection of the overall
>  > > state of free software communities today.
>  > >
>  > I don't know about the situation with the GNU project and the FSF, but if
>  > there's something you'd like me to do to prove trust, I could do it.
>
>  I'd like to add that by default we trust each other, in the spirit of
>  being excellent to each other. In this particular case,
>  co-maintainership shares responsibility but does not hand it over
>  completely (the handing-over bit can be done at a later stage, if
>  necessary). Every change/commit/message is public, so there are plenty
>  of opportunities to catch any errors.
>
>  Given that we do not often meet our Fedora colleagues in person, it is
>  not viable to expect members of the community to prove trustworthiness
>  through personal relationships. We assume the best in each other, and if
>  things do get hairy, we have open community channels, processes, and
>  overseeing bodies through which changes can be emended.
>
>  --
>  Thanks,
>  Regards,
>  Ankur Sinha "FranciscoD" (He / Him / His) |
>  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Ankursinha
>  Time zone: Europe/London
>  _______________________________________________
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>  Fedora Code of Conduct:
>  https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
>  List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
>  List Archives:
>  https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail]
>

Non-responsive maintainer: pocock

[Julian Sikorski]

Hi Daniel,

I would like to add to Ankur's point: while I understand that many of us are doing
Fedora work voluntarily and the expectations should be set accordingly, I believe we
should be open to accept help when we realise that we cannot realistically commit enough
time to the project. In case of asio, I have contacted you back in 2018 [1][2]. The pull
request I have filed [3] has been opened since.
The situation with asio right now is that Fedora with its asio-1.10.8 is not only behind
arch and gentoo (both at 1.14.0), but also behind debian buster (at 1.12.2). Resiprocate,
which is what was holding back asio update, has been retired due to FTBFS, then unorphaned
at your request, and then retired again after being orphaned for 6+ weeks [4]. There has
not been a successful build of resiprocate since 2016 [5].
Again, I perfectly understand that you have a backlog and that updating asio is not on top
on your priority list. Being sceptical about co-maintainership offers seems
counter-productive though, as there are things which need fixing and other people willing
to step in.

Best regards,
Julian

[1] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1551800#c2
[2] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1638081#c2
[3] https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/asio/pull-request/1
[4] https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/resiprocate/commits/master
[5] https://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/packageinfo?packageID=15875

Non-responsive maintainer: pocock

[Neal Gompa]

On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 1:23 PM Julian Sikorski <belegdol(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>  Hi Daniel,
>
>  I would like to add to Ankur's point: while I understand that many of us are doing
> Fedora work voluntarily and the expectations should be set accordingly, I believe we
> should be open to accept help when we realise that we cannot realistically commit enough
> time to the project. In case of asio, I have contacted you back in 2018 [1][2]. The pull
> request I have filed [3] has been opened since.
>  The situation with asio right now is that Fedora with its asio-1.10.8 is not only behind
> arch and gentoo (both at 1.14.0), but also behind debian buster (at 1.12.2). Resiprocate,
> which is what was holding back asio update, has been retired due to FTBFS, then unorphaned
> at your request, and then retired again after being orphaned for 6+ weeks [4]. There has
> not been a successful build of resiprocate since 2016 [5].
>  Again, I perfectly understand that you have a backlog and that updating asio is not on
> top on your priority list. Being sceptical about co-maintainership offers seems
> counter-productive though, as there are things which need fixing and other people willing
> to step in.
>  
Hello Daniel,

I would like to suggest that given our community and its modus
operandi, I think it would be unfair to automatically be suspicious of
the work fellow packagers are trying to do to help you. But, if it
helps, I'd be willing to assist with the asio package. Hopefully, my
track record speaks for itself, in terms of maintaining packages in
Fedora and contributing to various aspects of the Project. I also
sponsored Dakota (the OP who asked you about asio), and I have been
mentoring him on how to interact with the larger Fedora community and
I was the one who encouraged him to reach out to you on asio for EPEL
8.

If you feel you are no longer able to give it the attention it needs,
I would respectfully request you transfer the ownership to Dakota, who
is interested in maintaining the package. If you have some concern
with him maintaining it, feel free to transfer the package to me
instead. Failing that, please just orphan the package so someone can
take care of it in your stead.

Thanks in advance, and thank you for being a member of the Fedora community.

Best regards,
Neal


-- 
真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth!