----- "Nicolas Mailhot" nicolas.mailhot@laposte.net wrote:
Le samedi 06 novembre 2010 à 10:57 +0000, Richard W.M. Jones a écrit :
Is Fedora for developers or what?
We want to ditch extremely useful, ground-breaking features because
of
"tearing" when scrolling in a browser window?
Well it would be mightily nice to have an infrastructure that can handle keyboard extended keys (almost every new keyboard sold in the last decade has one or more of those) without barfing because the original x11 protocol designers thought 8 bits would be enough for everyone.
The ground breaking parts can come afterwards. Input on X is so bad this is becoming ridiculous (another example being X has no notion of language, just layouts, so there's no way for apps to know the language being typed and auto-select the correct spellchecker)
Well, actually input methods can do that. :-) They know exactly what language you are typing, and some do basic spelling check in the language they support.
Le jeudi 11 novembre 2010 à 21:05 -0500, Ding Yi Chen a écrit :
Well, actually input methods can do that. :-) They know exactly what language you are typing, and some do basic spelling check in the language they support.
Sorry, but no. Appart from the well known stability problems, which means input methods are not enabled by default for most users, and badly integrated into apps, input methods *still* confuse input system and langage, and assume that you need a qwerty layout to type English.
I despair of making *nix input people understand that LANGAGE ≠ INPUT
Please stop trying to derive one from the other, they are *distinct* and one can (and often does) use a non-english layout to type English. It's about as smart as trying to find German people in Europe by searching for Volkswagen cars. Sometimes it will be right, most often it will be terribly wrong.
On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 18:01, Nicolas Mailhot nicolas.mailhot@laposte.net wrote:
I despair of making *nix input people understand that LANGAGE ≠ INPUT Please stop trying to derive one from the other, they are *distinct* and one can (and often does) use a non-english layout to type English. It's about as smart as trying to find German people in Europe by searching for Volkswagen cars. Sometimes it will be right, most often it will be terribly wrong.
Yes, and it has nothing to do with system-wide or even session-wide settings IMHO.
I'm a French guy living in GB. I type on French AZERTY or UK QWERTY hardware layouts, occasionally German QWERTZ. My software layout layout is always QWERTY US. I mostly use the en_US.UTF-8 locale, but some systems use en_GB.UTF-8. My timezone is Europe/London on my desktop, UTC in my servers and most virtual machines. And the one time I could really significantly benefit from a spell checking mechanism is when I try to improve my Spanish on #fedora-es.
Only the application can often have lucky guesses or can be efficiently taught, unless one comes up with über-heuristics (for #fedora-es, the IRC client based on the channel I'm in).
If you have good reasons to put language information in the input layer of the UI infrastructure, I'd love to hear which :)
And I'd be really pleased if software kept letting me get rid of the Magic most might want. That's one big criteria when I pick my alternatives.
Cheers,
On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 18:54:02 +0000, Pierre Carrier wrote:
On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 18:01, Nicolas Mailhot nicolas.mailhot@laposte.net wrote:
I despair of making *nix input people understand that LANGAGE ≠ INPUT Please stop trying to derive one from the other, they are *distinct* and one can (and often does) use a non-english layout to type English. It's about as smart as trying to find German people in Europe by searching for Volkswagen cars. Sometimes it will be right, most often it will be terribly wrong.
Yes, and it has nothing to do with system-wide or even session-wide settings IMHO.
I'm a French guy living in GB. I type on French AZERTY or UK QWERTY hardware layouts, occasionally German QWERTZ. My software layout layout is always QWERTY US. I mostly use the
Same here. I'm an English-speaker working in Germany, and find it much more convenient to keep my keyboard in US international layout with AltGr dead keys, using the dead keys for entering Umlauts when necessary.
The German layout is *horrible* for programming. We have locale for describing language, punctuation marks, etc.; it should have no correlation with keyboard layout.
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Ding Yi Chen -
Michel Alexandre Salim -
Nicolas Mailhot -
Pierre Carrier