Expect more positive bodhi karma / check karma automatism

[Till Maas]

Good news everyone,

you can probably expect to receive more positive bodhi karma for your
updates in the future (or you already got unexpected much), because
there is now a script called 'fedora-easy-karma'[0], that makes
providing feedback a lot easier.

This makes it more important to consider the "karma automatism" for your
updates. By default testing updates updates are declared stable when
they get three karma points. In the past this probably never happened,
but now I have seen several updates, where this occurred. So if you
think your package should stay longer in testing or needs more intensive
testing than the average updates, consider disabling the "karma
automatism" or select a higher threshold for the automatic push to
happen.

Regards
Till

[0] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Easy_Karma

[Milos Jakubicek]

On 6.3.2010 23:21, Till Maas wrote:
>  Good news everyone,
>
>  you can probably expect to receive more positive bodhi karma for your
>  updates in the future (or you already got unexpected much), because
>  there is now a script called 'fedora-easy-karma'[0], that makes
>  providing feedback a lot easier. 
Till, great job, thank you!

Also thanks for packaging that immediately -- what about installing it 
by default? It's a tiny package and we really do want our users to 
provide feedback.

Best,
Milos

Install fedora-easy-karma by default? (was: Re: Expect more positive bodhi karma / check karma automatism)

[Till Maas]

On Sun, Mar 07, 2010 at 01:29:28AM +0100, Milos Jakubicek wrote:

>  Also thanks for packaging that immediately -- what about installing
> it 
>  by default? It's a tiny package and we really do want our users to 
>  provide feedback. 
I do not mind, if it is installed by default, but I am not sure,
whether this is a good idea. Users will still need a FAS account,
install packages from updates-testing and know that it exist to use it.

Regards
Till

Install fedora-easy-karma by default? (was: Re: Expect more positive bodhi karma / check karma automatism)

[Bill Nottingham]

Till Maas (opensource(a)till.name) said: 
>  > Also thanks for packaging that immediately -- what about
> installing it 
>  > by default? It's a tiny package and we really do want our users to 
>  > provide feedback.
>  
>  I do not mind, if it is installed by default, but I am not sure,
>  whether this is a good idea. Users will still need a FAS account,
>  install packages from updates-testing and know that it exist to use it. 
Given that it at the moment requires a FAS account, perhaps having
it as default in the Fedora packager group is a good first step.

Hey, why don't we register for FAS accounts with firstboot?

Bill

Install fedora-easy-karma by default?

[Matthew Woehlke]

Bill Nottingham wrote:
>  Till Maas (opensource(a)till.name) said:
> >> Also thanks for packaging that immediately -- what about installing it
> >> by default? It's a tiny package and we really do want our users to
> >> provide feedback.
> >
> > I do not mind, if it is installed by default, but I am not sure,
> > whether this is a good idea. Users will still need a FAS account,
> > install packages from updates-testing and know that it exist to use it.
>
>  Given that it at the moment requires a FAS account, perhaps having
>  it as default in the Fedora packager group is a good first step.
>
>  Hey, why don't we register for FAS accounts with firstboot? 
Can you leave bodhi feedback with an FAS account if you haven't signed a 
CLA? (The thing about FAS accounts I am not crazy about is the CLA. What 
about using a bugzilla account instead?)

-- 
Matthew
Please do not quote my e-mail address unobfuscated in message bodies.
-- 
. . . . . ##@NO CARRIER

Install fedora-easy-karma by default?

[Rahul Sundaram]

On 03/11/2010 02:14 AM, Matthew Woehlke wrote:
>  Can you leave bodhi feedback with an FAS account if you haven't signed a 
>  CLA? (The thing about FAS accounts I am not crazy about is the CLA. What 
>  about using a bugzilla account instead?)
>     
What is the problem you have with the CLA?

Rahul

Install fedora-easy-karma by default?

[Matthew Woehlke]

Rahul Sundaram wrote:
>  On 03/11/2010 02:14 AM, Matthew Woehlke wrote:
> >
> > Can you leave bodhi feedback with an FAS account if you haven't signed a
> > CLA? (The thing about FAS accounts I am not crazy about is the CLA. What
> > about using a bugzilla account instead?)
> >
>
>  What is the problem you have with the CLA? 
I tried to send you a reply, but it bounced; gmail says the address you 
gave does not exist.

-- 
Matthew
Please do not quote my e-mail address unobfuscated in message bodies.
-- 
Oops. -- Shannon Foraker (David Weber, Ashes of Victory)

Install fedora-easy-karma by default?

[Rahul Sundaram]

On 03/11/2010 11:00 PM, Matthew Woehlke wrote:
>  I tried to send you a reply, but it bounced; gmail says the address you 
>  gave does not exist.
>     
I got the mail. Thanks.

Rahul

Install fedora-easy-karma by default?

[Matthew Woehlke]

Rahul Sundaram wrote:
>  On 03/11/2010 11:00 PM, Matthew Woehlke wrote:
> >
> > I tried to send you a reply, but it bounced; gmail says the address you
> > gave does not exist.
> >
>
>  I got the mail. Thanks. 
Yes, sorry. Must not have read the bounce close enough; I was trying to 
forward a copy to myself (different account) and got *my* address wrong :-).

-- 
Matthew
Please do not quote my e-mail address unobfuscated in message bodies.
-- 
Oops. -- Shannon Foraker (David Weber, Ashes of Victory)

CLA problems (was: Re: Install fedora-easy-karma by default?)

[Till Maas]

On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 09:20:11AM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
>  On 03/11/2010 02:14 AM, Matthew Woehlke wrote:
>  >
>  > Can you leave bodhi feedback with an FAS account if you haven't signed a 
>  > CLA? (The thing about FAS accounts I am not crazy about is the CLA. What 
>  > about using a bugzilla account instead?)
>  >   
>  
>  What is the problem you have with the CLA? 
Imho it is to complex, which scares potential contributor away.
Especially if only a comment and a karma value are required, the CLA is
way to complex to require it.

Regards
Till

CLA problems (was: Re: Install fedora-easy-karma by default?)

[Mike McGrath]

On Thu, 11 Mar 2010, Till Maas wrote:

>  On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 09:20:11AM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
>  > On 03/11/2010 02:14 AM, Matthew Woehlke wrote:
>  > >
>  > > Can you leave bodhi feedback with an FAS account if you haven't signed a
>  > > CLA? (The thing about FAS accounts I am not crazy about is the CLA. What
>  > > about using a bugzilla account instead?)
>  > >
>  >
>  > What is the problem you have with the CLA?
>
>  Imho it is to complex, which scares potential contributor away.
>  Especially if only a comment and a karma value are required, the CLA is
>  way to complex to require it.
>  
We don't require it though I thought?  Can somone who has not signed the
CLA confirm?

	-Mike

Install fedora-easy-karma by default? (was: Re: Expect more positive bodhi karma / check karma automatism)

[Thomas Janssen]

On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 7:36 PM, Bill Nottingham <notting(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:
>  Till Maas (opensource(a)till.name) said:
> > > Also thanks for packaging that immediately -- what about installing it
> > > by default? It's a tiny package and we really do want our users to
> > > provide feedback.
> >
> > I do not mind, if it is installed by default, but I am not sure,
> > whether this is a good idea. Users will still need a FAS account,
> > install packages from updates-testing and know that it exist to use it.
>
>  Given that it at the moment requires a FAS account, perhaps having
>  it as default in the Fedora packager group is a good first step.
>
>  Hey, why don't we register for FAS accounts with firstboot? 
Good idea. We could also register FAS accounts within the Fedora-Tour
once it's ready. I think it would be a good place with lots of space
to explain the user what benefits a FAS account has.

-- 
LG Thomas

Dubium sapientiae initium

[Stephen Gallagher]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 03/06/2010 05:21 PM, Till Maas wrote:
>  Good news everyone,
>  
>  you can probably expect to receive more positive bodhi karma for your
>  updates in the future (or you already got unexpected much), because
>  there is now a script called 'fedora-easy-karma'[0], that makes
>  providing feedback a lot easier.
>  
>  This makes it more important to consider the "karma automatism" for your
>  updates. By default testing updates updates are declared stable when
>  they get three karma points. In the past this probably never happened,
>  but now I have seen several updates, where this occurred. So if you
>  think your package should stay longer in testing or needs more intensive
>  testing than the average updates, consider disabling the "karma
>  automatism" or select a higher threshold for the automatic push to
>  happen.
>  
>  Regards
>  Till
>  
>  [0] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Easy_Karma 

Given the obvious utility of this script, can we get it added to the
fedora-packager package? It doesn't make a lot of sense to have
developers downloading a script off a wiki to use this.

- -- 
Stephen Gallagher
RHCE 804006346421761

Delivering value year after year.
Red Hat ranks #1 in value among software vendors.
http://www.redhat.com/promo/vendor/
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[Thomas Spura]

Am Dienstag, den 09.03.2010, 07:50 -0500 schrieb Stephen Gallagher:
>  On 03/06/2010 05:21 PM, Till Maas wrote:
>  > [0] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Easy_Karma
>  
>  
>  Given the obvious utility of this script, can we get it added to the
>  fedora-packager package? It doesn't make a lot of sense to have
>  developers downloading a script off a wiki to use this. 
This is already in its own package:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/search/fedora-easy-karma

[Mike Chambers]

On Tue, 2010-03-09 at 14:06 +0100, Thomas Spura wrote:
>  Am Dienstag, den 09.03.2010, 07:50 -0500 schrieb Stephen Gallagher:
>  > On 03/06/2010 05:21 PM, Till Maas wrote:
>  > > [0] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Easy_Karma
>  > 
>  > 
>  > Given the obvious utility of this script, can we get it added to the
>  > fedora-packager package? It doesn't make a lot of sense to have
>  > developers downloading a script off a wiki to use this.
>  
>  This is already in its own package:
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/search/fedora-easy-karma 
Should this script still work if you mirror the updates-testing path and
use your local disk for upgrades?   Cause that is what I do and it don't
do nothing for me.

[mike@scrappy Downloads]$ ./fedora-easy-karma.py 
Adding en_US to language list
[mike@scrappy Downloads]$ 

NO menus, or anything.  And this only updating partially, or everything
from updates-testing.

-- 
Mike Chambers
Madisonville, KY

"Best lil town on Earth!"

[Till Maas]

On Tue, Mar 09, 2010 at 03:42:19PM -0600, Mike Chambers wrote:
>  On Tue, 2010-03-09 at 14:06 +0100, Thomas Spura wrote:
>  > Am Dienstag, den 09.03.2010, 07:50 -0500 schrieb Stephen Gallagher:
>  > > On 03/06/2010 05:21 PM, Till Maas wrote:
>  > > > [0] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Easy_Karma
>  > > 
>  > > 
>  > > Given the obvious utility of this script, can we get it added to the
>  > > fedora-packager package? It doesn't make a lot of sense to have
>  > > developers downloading a script off a wiki to use this.
>  > 
>  > This is already in its own package:
>  > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/search/fedora-easy-karma
>  
>  Should this script still work if you mirror the updates-testing path and
>  use your local disk for upgrades?   Cause that is what I do and it don't
>  do nothing for me. 
How do you update? Do you use yum or rpm? yum with localupdate?
>  
>  [mike@scrappy Downloads]$ ./fedora-easy-karma.py 
>  Adding en_US to language list
>  [mike@scrappy Downloads]$ 
>  
>  NO menus, or anything.  And this only updating partially, or everything
>  from updates-testing. 
You need to update packages from updates-testing first and then it's
useful to run it. Please look at the wiki for example output.

Regards
Till

[Seth Vidal]

On Tue, 9 Mar 2010, Till Maas wrote:

>  On Tue, Mar 09, 2010 at 03:42:19PM -0600, Mike Chambers wrote:
> > On Tue, 2010-03-09 at 14:06 +0100, Thomas Spura wrote:
> >> Am Dienstag, den 09.03.2010, 07:50 -0500 schrieb Stephen Gallagher:
> >>> On 03/06/2010 05:21 PM, Till Maas wrote:
> >>>> [0] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Easy_Karma
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Given the obvious utility of this script, can we get it added to the
> >>> fedora-packager package? It doesn't make a lot of sense to have
> >>> developers downloading a script off a wiki to use this.
> >>
> >> This is already in its own package:
> >> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/search/fedora-easy-karma
> >
> > Should this script still work if you mirror the updates-testing path and
> > use your local disk for upgrades?   Cause that is what I do and it don't
> > do nothing for me.
>
>  How do you update? Do you use yum or rpm? yum with localupdate? 
If you know which pkgs you've installed that were from updates-testing you 
can run:


yumdb set from_repo updates-testing pkg_name

and that should do it.

-sv

[Mike Chambers]

On Tue, 2010-03-09 at 17:19 -0500, Seth Vidal wrote:

>  If you know which pkgs you've installed that were from
> updates-testing you 
>  can run:
>  
>  
>  yumdb set from_repo updates-testing pkg_name
>  
>  and that should do it. 
Yes, that fixed it.  So the name has to be "updates-testing" in the repo
for it to work. Guess I can see how that would be the case, unless it
checked the packages and compared to the repo on the internet or
something, but that would take way too long.

-- 
Mike Chambers
Madisonville, KY

"Best lil town on Earth!"

[Michael Cronenworth]

Till Maas wrote:
>  You need to update packages from updates-testing first and then
> it's
>  useful to run it. Please look at the wiki for example output. 
Would your script break, say, if he was using the bodhi-client from 
updates-testing that is broken?

[Till Maas]

On Tue, Mar 09, 2010 at 04:51:52PM -0600, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
>  Till Maas wrote:
>  > You need to update packages from updates-testing first and then it's
>  > useful to run it. Please look at the wiki for example output.
>  
>  Would your script break, say, if he was using the bodhi-client from 
>  updates-testing that is broken? 
fedora-easy-karma does not use bodhi-client, but fedora-python, which
contains a python module for bodhi, that is also used by the
bodhi-client script.

Regards
Till

[Till Maas]

On Tue, Mar 09, 2010 at 07:50:43AM -0500, Stephen Gallagher wrote:

>  Given the obvious utility of this script, can we get it added to the
>  fedora-packager package? It doesn't make a lot of sense to have
>  developers downloading a script off a wiki to use this. 
It's (going to be) in the fedora-packager comps group, so yum install
@fedora-packager should install it iirc (after the next comps to repo
sync, if it's not working yet).

Regards
Till

[Stephen John Smoogen]

On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 3:21 PM, Till Maas <opensource(a)till.name&gt; wrote:
>  Good news everyone,
>
>  you can probably expect to receive more positive bodhi karma for your
>  updates in the future (or you already got unexpected much), because
>  there is now a script called 'fedora-easy-karma'[0], that makes
>  providing feedback a lot easier.
>
>  This makes it more important to consider the "karma automatism" for your
>  updates. By default testing updates updates are declared stable when
>  they get three karma points. In the past this probably never happened,
>  but now I have seen several updates, where this occurred. So if you
>  think your package should stay longer in testing or needs more intensive
>  testing than the average updates, consider disabling the "karma
>  automatism" or select a higher threshold for the automatic push to
>  happen.
>
>  Regards
>  Till
>
>  [0] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Easy_Karma 

Thankyou very much Till. I started using it this morning and it seems
to work as expected. There are a couple of things that would make it
easier to use:

1) Comments could allow for multi-line code. I tried to paste stuff in
and well skipped a couple of packages from the paste :)
2) I found so many packages I didn't know were on my system so had no
idea what they were.
   A) is the package linked to things I use daily? [can this be determined.]
   B) is the package been used by something so I can see its usage by
other daemons.
In the end, I did remove a couple of things I was like "huh why did I
install that?"



-- 
Stephen J Smoogen.

Ah, but a man's reach should exceed his grasp. Or what's a heaven for?
-- Robert Browning

[Till Maas]

On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 09:34:15AM -0700, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:

>  1) Comments could allow for multi-line code. I tried to paste stuff
> in
>  and well skipped a couple of packages from the paste :) 
Do you have any wish about how this should behave? I was thinking that
e.g. a comment like "<EOF" will make it multiline and use everything
until a comment that's only EOF will be used. EOF can be an arbitrary
string.

>  2) I found so many packages I didn't know were on my system so
> had no
>  idea what they were.
>     A) is the package linked to things I use daily? [can this be determined.] 
I don't know how to determine this except to scan your .bash_history and
use rpm -qf to find matches packages.

>     B) is the package been used by something so I can see its usage
> by
>  other daemons. 
So you would like to have a list of all packages that are depending on
this directly or indirectly? For a future release I was thinking about
to use a more interactive shell that allows to also perform some
additional query commands. Maybe this could be one of them.

Regards
Till

[Stephen John Smoogen]

On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 4:27 PM, Till Maas <opensource(a)till.name&gt; wrote:
>  On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 09:34:15AM -0700, Stephen John Smoogen
> wrote:
>
> > 1) Comments could allow for multi-line code. I tried to paste stuff in
> > and well skipped a couple of packages from the paste :)
>
>  Do you have any wish about how this should behave? I was thinking that
>  e.g. a comment like "<EOF" will make it multiline and use everything
>  until a comment that's only EOF will be used. EOF can be an arbitrary
>  string. 
That works for me.

> > 2) I found so many packages I didn't know were on my system
> so had no
> > idea what they were.
> >    A) is the package linked to things I use daily? [can this be determined.]
>
>  I don't know how to determine this except to scan your .bash_history and
>  use rpm -qf to find matches packages. 
Yeah.. this would require a more massive database than I think is in
the scope of packages. This sort of big brother would basically track
what is run, by what and when. It would then present stuff so that a
user could see what they are using the most.

However, in some cases, I would just like to know:

poppler-glib: used by evince, gimp.

That way I can say.. oh I used evince since the update.. and its
working so I have not had a problem.

> >    B) is the package been used by something so I can see its
> usage by
> > other daemons.
>
>  So you would like to have a list of all packages that are depending on
>  this directly or indirectly? For a future release I was thinking about
>  to use a more interactive shell that allows to also perform some
>  additional query commands. Maybe this could be one of them.
>  
The biggest query command I would like at the moment is something like:

fedora-easy-karma --list # lists packages to be voted on.
fedora-easy-karma --list-new # list pacakges I haven't voted on already.

I removed a couple hundred packages from my system today because I am
not suing them and even just hitting return to go past them was taking
a long time.

-- 
Stephen J Smoogen.

Ah, but a man's reach should exceed his grasp. Or what's a heaven for?
-- Robert Browning

[Till Maas]

On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 04:51:34PM -0700, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:

>  The biggest query command I would like at the moment is something
> like:
>  
>  fedora-easy-karma --list # lists packages to be voted on.
>  fedora-easy-karma --list-new # list pacakges I haven't voted on already. 
fedora-easy-karma by default already skips updates, that you already
commented on, this can be disabled with "--include-commented". So would
it be enough, if there is an option "--list-only", that skips the
questions whether or not to comment, but only displays the update
descriptions?

Regards
Till

[Stephen John Smoogen]

On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 2:07 AM, Till Maas <opensource(a)till.name&gt; wrote:
>  On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 04:51:34PM -0700, Stephen John Smoogen
> wrote:
>
> > The biggest query command I would like at the moment is something like:
> >
> > fedora-easy-karma --list # lists packages to be voted on.
> > fedora-easy-karma --list-new # list pacakges I haven't voted on already.
>
>  fedora-easy-karma by default already skips updates, that you already
>  commented on, this can be disabled with "--include-commented". So would
>  it be enough, if there is an option "--list-only", that skips the
>  questions whether or not to comment, but only displays the update
>  descriptions? 
What I am looking for is something where I can get a short list of
packages I would be asked to comment on if I ran the program. The
reason being that I removed a couple hundred packages yesterday
because I don't run them, haven't run them, and probably wouldn't know
how to test them :).


-- 
Stephen J Smoogen.

Ah, but a man's reach should exceed his grasp. Or what's a heaven for?
-- Robert Browning

[Kevin Fenzi]

Additionally, I have some RFE's too. ;) 

- Could you add a 'q' for quit or something. Or at least not catch
  control-c? If I am in the middle of doing something and need to
  reboot or wander off, I would perfer to be able to just stop. 

- Perhaps also a 'n' and 'p' for next and previous ? If I am looking at
  them quickly, I sometimes hit a return when I should have stopped and
  tested something. The only way to go back is to get to the end and
  restart and find the update I passed. 

- Perhaps add a "(FEK)" or something to the comments? It would then be
  more obvious how many people are using this tool? 

Again, great work on this... thanks!

kevin

[Till Maas]

On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 01:22:35PM -0700, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
>  Additionally, I have some RFE's too. ;) 
>  
>  - Could you add a 'q' for quit or something. Or at least not catch
>    control-c? If I am in the middle of doing something and need to
>    reboot or wander off, I would perfer to be able to just stop.  
Uh, I catching CTRL-C is not intended, I'll look into this the next
days. But you can use CTRL-D to quit.

>  - Perhaps also a 'n' and 'p' for next and previous ?
> If I am looking at
>    them quickly, I sometimes hit a return when I should have stopped and
>    tested something. The only way to go back is to get to the end and
>    restart and find the update I passed.  
Yes, this is annoying, I'll add this to TODO. In the meantime: In the
git repo there is a version that accepts patterns to select an update,
so you can just append the full name (no v-r) of a build to select only
it or use shell pattern, e.g. gstreamer\* to only get updates that
include a build or rpm matching this patterin.

>  - Perhaps add a "(FEK)" or something to the comments? It
> would then be
>    more obvious how many people are using this tool?  
The git version will set it's own http user agent so people with access
to the server logs can create some usage statistics. But I could also
add this, if nobody objects.

Regards
Till