F27 Self Contained Change: No More i686 Kernels

[Jaroslav Reznik]

= Proposed Self Contained Change: No More i686 Kernels =
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Stop_Building_i686_Kernels

Change owner(s):
* Justin Forbes <jforbes(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;

Stop building i686 kernels, reduce the i686 package to a
kernel-headers package that can be used to build 32bit versions of
everything else.

== Detailed Description ==
The i686 kernel is of limited use as most x86 hardware supports 64bit
these days. It has been in a status of "community supported" for
several Fedora releases now. As such, it gets very little testing, and
issues frequently appear upstream. These tend to go unnoticed for long
periods of time. When issues are found, it is often a long time before
they are fixed because they are considered low priority by most
developers upstream. This can leave other architectures waiting for
important updates, and provides a less than desirable experience for
people choosing to run a 32bit kernel. With this proposal, the i686
kernel will no longer be built. A kernel headers package will still
exist, and all 32bit packages should continue to build as normal. The
main difference is there would no longer be bootable 32bit images.

== Scope ==

* Proposal owners:
Changes to the kernel spec to stop the actual i686 builds, but keep
the kernel-headers package.

* Other developers: NA

* Release engineering: [1] (a check of an impact with Release
Engineering is needed)

* List of deliverables: N/A (not a System Wide Change)

* Policies and guidelines: N/A (not a System Wide Change)

* Trademark approval: N/A (not needed for this Change)

[1] https://pagure.io/releng/issues/6894

Thanks,
Jaroslav

[Hans de Goede]

Hi,

On 12-07-17 14:36, Jaroslav Reznik wrote:
>  = Proposed Self Contained Change: No More i686 Kernels =
>  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Stop_Building_i686_Kernels
>  
I hereby formally object against this being
categorized as a "Self Contained Change" it clearly
is not.

Regards,

Hans


> Change owner(s):
> * Justin Forbes <jforbes(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;
> 
> Stop building i686 kernels, reduce the i686 package to a
> kernel-headers package that can be used to build 32bit versions of
> everything else.
> 
> == Detailed Description ==
> The i686 kernel is of limited use as most x86 hardware supports 64bit
> these days. It has been in a status of "community supported" for
> several Fedora releases now. As such, it gets very little testing, and
> issues frequently appear upstream. These tend to go unnoticed for long
> periods of time. When issues are found, it is often a long time before
> they are fixed because they are considered low priority by most
> developers upstream. This can leave other architectures waiting for
> important updates, and provides a less than desirable experience for
> people choosing to run a 32bit kernel. With this proposal, the i686
> kernel will no longer be built. A kernel headers package will still
> exist, and all 32bit packages should continue to build as normal. The
> main difference is there would no longer be bootable 32bit images.
> 
> == Scope ==
> 
> * Proposal owners:
> Changes to the kernel spec to stop the actual i686 builds, but keep
> the kernel-headers package.
> 
> * Other developers: NA
> 
> * Release engineering: [1] (a check of an impact with Release
> Engineering is needed)
> 
> * List of deliverables: N/A (not a System Wide Change)
> 
> * Policies and guidelines: N/A (not a System Wide Change)
> 
> * Trademark approval: N/A (not needed for this Change)
> 
> [1] https://pagure.io/releng/issues/6894
> 
> Thanks,
> Jaroslav
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>

[Josh Boyer]

On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 10:16 AM, Hans de Goede <hdegoede(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:
>  Hi,
>
>  On 12-07-17 14:36, Jaroslav Reznik wrote:
> > = Proposed Self Contained Change: No More i686 Kernels =
> > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Stop_Building_i686_Kernels
> >
>
>  I hereby formally object against this being
>  categorized as a "Self Contained Change" it clearly
>  is not. 
Agreed.  It should be System Wide.

josh

[Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski]

On Wednesday, 12 July 2017 at 18:40, Josh Boyer wrote:
>  On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 10:16 AM, Hans de Goede
> <hdegoede(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:
>  > Hi,
>  >
>  > On 12-07-17 14:36, Jaroslav Reznik wrote:
>  >> = Proposed Self Contained Change: No More i686 Kernels =
>  >> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Stop_Building_i686_Kernels
>  >>
>  >
>  > I hereby formally object against this being
>  > categorized as a "Self Contained Change" it clearly
>  > is not.
>  
>  Agreed.  It should be System Wide. 
+1, as mentioned already in the other thread. Since it's too late to
submit a system wide change for F27, this needs to be rescheduled
as a F28 System Wide Change.

Regards,
Dominik
-- 
Fedora http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Rathann
RPMFusion http://rpmfusion.org
"Faith manages."
        -- Delenn to Lennier in Babylon 5:"Confessions and Lamentations"

[Dennis Gilmore]

This is 100% a system wide change, the releng issue linked does not exist, however not
having a kernel will mean that we have to stop making everything for 32 bit x86. The only
thing we could do is make 32 bot x86 containers, which is something we do not do at all
today.  It makes me want to look at changing up some of the build processes as most 32 bit
x86_64 builds will never ship. The only content readily available would be what is
multilib.

[Florian Weimer]

On 07/13/2017 11:40 AM, Dennis Gilmore wrote:
>  This is 100% a system wide change, the releng issue linked does not
> exist, however not having a kernel will mean that we have to stop making everything for 32
> bit x86. The only thing we could do is make 32 bot x86 containers, which is something we
> do not do at all today. 
I don't understand.  We already build i686 packages in chroots on x86-64
hosts running a 64-bit kernel.

Here's an example:

  https://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=20482941

uname in the build log is:

Linux buildhw-09.phx2.fedoraproject.org 4.11.5-200.fc25.x86_64 #1 SMP
Wed Jun 14 17:17:29 UTC 2017 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux

I think this means it's a 64-bit kernel package, and someone just ran
setarch to change the uname output.

Thanks,
Florian

[Dennis Gilmore]

El jue, 13-07-2017 a las 11:53 +0200, Florian Weimer escribió:
>  On 07/13/2017 11:40 AM, Dennis Gilmore wrote:
>  > This is 100% a system wide change, the releng issue linked does not
>  > exist, however not having a kernel will mean that we have to stop
>  > making everything for 32 bit x86. The only thing we could do is
>  > make 32 bot x86 containers, which is something we do not do at all
>  > today.
>  
>  I don't understand.  We already build i686 packages in chroots on
>  x86-64
>  hosts running a 64-bit kernel.
>  
>  Here's an example:
>  
>    https://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=20482941
>  
>  uname in the build log is:
>  
>  Linux buildhw-09.phx2.fedoraproject.org 4.11.5-200.fc25.x86_64 #1 SMP
>  Wed Jun 14 17:17:29 UTC 2017 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux
>  
>  I think this means it's a 64-bit kernel package, and someone just ran
>  setarch to change the uname output.
>   
We have not ran 32 bit harware or installations on the builders in over
10 years. we build in chroot's made and managed by mock. and we are
looking at moving to using systemd-nspawn. Waht I was talking about is
end user deliverables. we currently are not making 32 bit x86 container
base images, the tooling that makes them(imagefactory) requires a
anaconda install tree so that a vm can be booted to install the
contents for the image. There is a difference in what and how we build
and what and how we ship things. 

Dennis