Orphaning hibernate

[Ondrej Dubaj]

Hi everyone,
I am orphaning hibernate, as I do not maintain any package, which depends
on it. Will anyone of you consider becoming a new main maintainer?

Thanks.
Regards,

Ondrej

[Bill Chatfield]

 I would like to take it, but I am not sponsored yet and I am still trying to learn how to
build packages. I'm getting close but there is a lot to learn. I can see that it is
currently not building because of missing dependencies. What I don't know how to check
is what other packages depend on it. Well if I was at home with my Fedora system, I have a
script that does it but I don't know how to determine that from the on-line build
systems. I'd like to see how important it is to keep. The hibernate jpa implementation
is very important.

    On Monday, February 3, 2020, 1:31:03 AM EST, Ondrej Dubaj <odubaj(a)redhat.com&gt;
wrote:  
 
 Hi everyone,I am orphaning hibernate, as I do not maintain any package, which depends on
it. Will anyone of you consider becoming a new main maintainer?
Thanks.Regards,
Ondrej
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[Fabio Valentini]

On Mon, Feb 3, 2020 at 3:41 PM Bill Chatfield via devel
<devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote:
>  I would like to take it, but I am not sponsored yet and I am still trying to learn how to
> build packages. I'm getting close but there is a lot to learn. I can see that it is
> currently not building because of missing dependencies. What I don't know how to check
> is what other packages depend on it. Well if I was at home with my Fedora system, I have a
> script that does it but I don't know how to determine that from the on-line build
> systems. I'd like to see how important it is to keep. The hibernate jpa implementation
> is very important. 
No fedora package depends on hibernate or any of its subpackages. It
can be safely removed.

Fabio

> On Monday, February 3, 2020, 1:31:03 AM EST, Ondrej Dubaj <odubaj(a)redhat.com&gt;
wrote:
>
>
> Hi everyone,
> I am orphaning hibernate, as I do not maintain any package, which depends on it. Will
anyone of you consider becoming a new main maintainer?
>
> Thanks.
> Regards,
>
> Ondrej
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[Kevin Kofler]

Fabio Valentini wrote:
>  No fedora package depends on hibernate or any of its subpackages. It
>  can be safely removed. 
Java on Fedora is in a really really sad state when we do not even carry 
ubiquitous libraries DEVELOPED BY RED HAT! (But no, I am not signing up to 
do the work for Red Hat, also because I do not use the packaged version of 
Hibernate. That packaged Hibernate would be useful to package Java 
applications, but nobody is working on that anymore. Sad.)

        Kevin Kofler

[Bill Chatfield]

 I may take it as soon as I figure out how.
But, if you're building a Java app, you probably use Maven to build it, so Maven is
going to download from mavencentral, not the version packaged in Fedora. So I'm
beginning to wonder how useful the packaged apps are. Am I missing something?

    On Tuesday, February 4, 2020, 4:25:48 AM EST, Kevin Kofler
<kevin.kofler(a)chello.at&gt; wrote:  
 
 Fabio Valentini wrote:
>  No fedora package depends on hibernate or any of its subpackages. It
>  can be safely removed. 
Java on Fedora is in a really really sad state when we do not even carry 
ubiquitous libraries DEVELOPED BY RED HAT! (But no, I am not signing up to 
do the work for Red Hat, also because I do not use the packaged version of 
Hibernate. That packaged Hibernate would be useful to package Java 
applications, but nobody is working on that anymore. Sad.)

        Kevin Kofler
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[Michal Srb]

Hi Bill,


On Tue, Feb 4, 2020 at 4:29 PM Bill Chatfield via devel <
devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote:

>  I may take it as soon as I figure out how.
>
>  But, if you're building a Java app, you probably use Maven to build it, so
>  Maven is going to download from mavencentral, not the version packaged in
>  Fedora. So I'm beginning to wonder how useful the packaged apps are. Am I
>  missing something?
>  
Packaged Java apps are useful, but packaged libraries (if not used by any
Java app in the distribution) not so much. Nobody's going to develop
anything against them. Like you said, developers will fetch what they need
from Maven Central.

Thanks,
Michal


>  On Tuesday, February 4, 2020, 4:25:48 AM EST, Kevin Kofler <
>  kevin.kofler(a)chello.at&gt; wrote:
>
>
>  Fabio Valentini wrote:
>  > No fedora package depends on hibernate or any of its subpackages. It
>  > can be safely removed.
>
>  Java on Fedora is in a really really sad state when we do not even carry
>  ubiquitous libraries DEVELOPED BY RED HAT! (But no, I am not signing up to
>  do the work for Red Hat, also because I do not use the packaged version of
>  Hibernate. That packaged Hibernate would be useful to package Java
>  applications, but nobody is working on that anymore. Sad.)
>
>          Kevin Kofler
>  _______________________________________________
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>

[Neal Gompa]

On Tue, Feb 4, 2020 at 10:36 AM Michal Srb <msrb(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:
>  Hi Bill,
>
>
>  On Tue, Feb 4, 2020 at 4:29 PM Bill Chatfield via devel
> <devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote:
> >
> > I may take it as soon as I figure out how.
> >
> > But, if you're building a Java app, you probably use Maven to build it, so Maven
> is going to download from mavencentral, not the version packaged in Fedora. So I'm
> beginning to wonder how useful the packaged apps are. Am I missing something?
>
>
>  Packaged Java apps are useful, but packaged libraries (if not used by any Java app in the
> distribution) not so much. Nobody's going to develop anything against them. Like you
> said, developers will fetch what they need from Maven Central.
>  
If we don't have packaged libraries, nobody can ship packaged
applications. And there are definitely cases where people develop
against packaged Java libraries. I used to work in one such case.
Nowadays I live primarily in the Python ecosystem, and I can live
entirely in packaged libraries there too. It'd be nice to have this
again for Java.



-- 
真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth!

[Michal Srb]

On Tue, Feb 4, 2020 at 5:07 PM Neal Gompa <ngompa13(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:

>  On Tue, Feb 4, 2020 at 10:36 AM Michal Srb <msrb(a)redhat.com&gt;
> wrote:
>  >
>  > Hi Bill,
>  >
>  >
>  > On Tue, Feb 4, 2020 at 4:29 PM Bill Chatfield via devel <
>  devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote:
>  >>
>  >> I may take it as soon as I figure out how.
>  >>
>  >> But, if you're building a Java app, you probably use Maven to build it,
>  so Maven is going to download from mavencentral, not the version packaged
>  in Fedora. So I'm beginning to wonder how useful the packaged apps are. Am
>  I missing something?
>  >
>  >
>  > Packaged Java apps are useful, but packaged libraries (if not used by
>  any Java app in the distribution) not so much. Nobody's going to develop
>  anything against them. Like you said, developers will fetch what they need
>  from Maven Central.
>  >
>
>  If we don't have packaged libraries, nobody can ship packaged
>  applications. And there are definitely cases where people develop
>  against packaged Java libraries. I used to work in one such case.
>  Nowadays I live primarily in the Python ecosystem, and I can live
>  entirely in packaged libraries there too. It'd be nice to have this
>  again for Java.
>
>  
This is more complicated and it would probably deserve a separate thread :)
Java and Python are completely different ecosystems. And Java ecosystem
(apps/libs) is just inherently unfriendly to Linux distributions. It's not
necessary bad or broken - it's just different.

I am curious: what was the reason to develop against the packaged Java
libraries?

Thanks,
Michal


>  --
>  真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth!
>  _______________________________________________
>  devel mailing list -- devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
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>  https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
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>

[Bill Chatfield]

 Great feedback. Thanks! :-)

    On Tuesday, February 4, 2020, 11:19:31 AM EST, Michal Srb <msrb(a)redhat.com&gt;
wrote:  
 
 

On Tue, Feb 4, 2020 at 5:07 PM Neal Gompa <ngompa13(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:

On Tue, Feb 4, 2020 at 10:36 AM Michal Srb <msrb(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:
>  Hi Bill,
>
>
>  On Tue, Feb 4, 2020 at 4:29 PM Bill Chatfield via devel
> <devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote:
> >
> > I may take it as soon as I figure out how.
> >
> > But, if you're building a Java app, you probably use Maven to build it, so Maven
> is going to download from mavencentral, not the version packaged in Fedora. So I'm
> beginning to wonder how useful the packaged apps are. Am I missing something?
>
>
>  Packaged Java apps are useful, but packaged libraries (if not used by any Java app in the
> distribution) not so much. Nobody's going to develop anything against them. Like you
> said, developers will fetch what they need from Maven Central.
>  
If we don't have packaged libraries, nobody can ship packaged
applications. And there are definitely cases where people develop
against packaged Java libraries. I used to work in one such case.
Nowadays I live primarily in the Python ecosystem, and I can live
entirely in packaged libraries there too. It'd be nice to have this
again for Java.



This is more complicated and it would probably deserve a separate thread :) Java and
Python are completely different ecosystems. And Java ecosystem (apps/libs) is just
inherently unfriendly to Linux distributions. It's not necessary bad or broken -
it's just different.

I am curious: what was the reason to develop against the packaged Java libraries?

Thanks,Michal
 


-- 
真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth!
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[Nico Kadel-Garcia]

On Tue, Feb 4, 2020 at 11:19 AM Michal Srb <msrb(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:

>  This is more complicated and it would probably deserve a separate
> thread :) Java and Python are completely different ecosystems. And Java ecosystem
> (apps/libs) is just inherently unfriendly to Linux distributions. It's not necessary
> bad or broken - it's just different.
>
>  I am curious: what was the reason to develop against the packaged Java libraries?
>
>  Thanks,
>  Michal 
Provenance. If you're working from a packaged Java library, Perl
module, Python module, or any other kind of module, you know what
source it was built from, roughly how, and have some listing in RPM of
what it's compatible with. I've had people do "sudo pip install" that
broke python modules used by many other components, including rpm
itself. And I've had cases where what got built out of online
dependences did not have a single versioned component in common with
what got built a few days later, or that had circular dependency
incompatibilities and would no longer build, at all.