devel September 2004

devel@lists.fedoraproject.org

251 participants
243 discussions

IPv6 and IPv4 resolver preferences
by Felipe Alfaro Solana 17 Sep '04

17 Sep '04

Hi! Now that, officially, IPv6 site-local addresses have been deprecated (RFC3879) and their use not recommended in new deployments, how will glibc resolve the preference problem that arises when both A and AAAA host records are defined for the same host? What will happen when both IPv4 and IPv6 addresses have different scopes (for example, the IPv4 address is private (e.g. 192.168.0.0/24), but the IPv6 is a global address (e.g. a 2000::/64)? Mac OS X seems to always prefer IPv6 addresses over IPv4 addresses, even when the scope of the IPv4 address is lower or nearer wrt the IPv6 address (i.e. site-local or private IPv4 vs a global IPv6). However, FC seems to implement the previous valid algorithm that took into account the scopes of both the IPv4 and IPv6 addresses when sorting the answer returned by the resolver. Will this change anytime soon? Any comments on this? Thanks!

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Distribution tag change of recent packages
by Matthias Saou 17 Sep '04

17 Sep '04

Hi, It seems that recently built packages have a distribution tag now different than the "Red Hat Linux" one that has always been used in Red Hat Linux and Fedora Core up to now. Why not, but I see two problems : - It contains the Fedora Core version, which means that packages won't be easily kept between versions (noarch packages that don't need updating for instance) without causing confusion. Are all packages now expected to be rebuilt from one FC version to another? - There are multiple different new strings used! Bad and most confusing... Red Hat FC-3 Red Hat (FC-3) Red Hat (RHEL-3) (yes, FC Dev. yptools .src.rpm has this set!) And glibc and rpmdb-fedora have none set. I think at least reaching an agreement on a single string would be a good start here, and maybe hearing reasons for the change since the last semi-official opinions I really getting on that matter were that distribution, vendor and packager tags weren't concerns, thus just stayed as they were. Matthias -- Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/ Fedora Core release 2 (Tettnang) - Linux kernel 2.6.8-1.521 Load : 0.26 0.77 0.75

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RE: Homedir backup (was Re: "Stateless Linux" project)
by Erik LaBianca 17 Sep '04

17 Sep '04

> -----Original Message----- > From: fedora-devel-list-bounces(a)redhat.com [mailto:fedora-devel-list- > bounces(a)redhat.com] On Behalf Of Carwyn Edwards > Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 2:15 PM > To: Development discussions related to Fedora Core > Subject: Re: Homedir backup (was Re: "Stateless Linux" project) > > > <summary>Stuff about identifying which network we are on to see if we > want to do backup.</summary> > > If I'm away at a conference with my laptop and they have WiFi access to > the internet, I don't care which network I am on. I still want to back > up my home directory though. > I've got concur and say for homedir backup, the obvious solution is allowing the user to enable and disable it easily. I like the idea of a taskbar throbber applet, and I'd like to easily be able to run some sort of command to enable backups, backup now, and disable backups as well. Right-click menu options on the throbber or whatever would be nice too. Automatically determining the state based on the network is easily solved once the basics are there. I currently have no easy and efficient solution to backup up my home directory on a stateful machine and sync it back, so I'd prefer to see that happen first. I think the place to tackle this stuff first for both the home directory and system configuration aspects is with regard to choosing files to backup intelligently. Someone pointed out that their rpm folder is monstrous. Mine is too, as are bunches of other folders floating through my home directory and system. Perhaps a simple standardized home directory layout is in order. For instance: One might have a ~/tmp into which ~/rpm/BUILD and other junk accumulators would be linked. It would have a no-backup policy. Then perhaps a ~/static or some such where one could put their music files, movie rips, ~/rpm/SRPMS, random tarball downloads, fedora install tree mirrors, or whatever else they might be hauling around that never changes. Such a folder could (and should) have a different (lower priority, server-wins?) sync policy than, for instance ~/Maildir (high priority, last update wins?). I realize rsync exclude lists can work around more complex layouts, but I think the idea here is to automate and simplify. In addition, I want 2-way sync on at least some part of my home directory. Splitting it up into a few different policies makes automated sync conflict resolution easier. Anyway, just another $0.02.

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Traffic shaping broken with kernel errata
by Chris Adams 17 Sep '04

17 Sep '04

There is a new kernel config option CLS_U32_PERF that, when set, requires a new version of the iproute utils to be able to set traffic filters. Either this options needs to be remove from the kernel or the iproute utils need to be upgraded. I commented on this in bugzilla #129185 (jar(a)pcuf.fi had already opened a ticket against iproute). -- Chris Adams <cmadams(a)hiwaay.net> Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble.

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RFC: ipw2100 and ip2200 packages (known as centrino-WLAN)
by Thorsten Leemhuis 16 Sep '04

16 Sep '04

Hi *, I currently have two kernel-module-packages locally which contain the drivers for the ipw2[12]00 WLAN-Cards used in Centrino Notebooks. I'm currently a bit undecided were to submit them and in with form. My problem is the firmware that is needed by the driver in order to work. It has a special redistribution license. For details see: http://ipw2100.sourceforge.net/firmware.php?fid=3 http://ipw2200.sourceforge.net/firmware.php?fid=2 This is not acceptable for fedora.us (or fedora core) AFAICS (or am I wrong here?). It is AFAICS for livna.org (not sure). So I have the following options: 1. Submit the ipw2[12]00 packages and the needed firmwares both to livna.org 2a. Submit the drivers to fedora.us and the firmware to livna.org. But the driver can't require the firmwares in this case. Problematic. 2b. Submit the drivers to fedora.us and ignore the firmware. So the user needs to get the firmwares on it's own. I currently tend to 1., but I'd like to here comments from others (you!) on it. Thanks. CU thl P.S.: Yes, I know there is already a (currently outdated) ipw2100 package at: http://bugzilla.fedora.us/show_bug.cgi?id=1494 P.P.S.: Yes, atrpms also has a package AFAIK -- Thorsten Leemhuis <fedora(a)leemhuis.info>

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Questions about Mozilla RPMS ?
by Stephen Smoogen 16 Sep '04

16 Sep '04

I saw Warren has a test RPM for firefox-0.10, but havent seen anyone attempt at thunderbird 0.8 or sunbird.. has anyone tried and is currently failing or just not had time.. my attempts so far have been less than even good. -- Stephen John Smoogen | CCN-5 Security Team LANL SIRT Team Leader | SMTP: smoogen(a)lanl.gov Los Alamos National Laboratory | Voice: 505.664.0645 Ta-03 SM-1498 MS: B255 DP 10S | FAX: 505.665.7793 Los Alamos, NM 87545 |

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Wireless driver quality information sucks
by Dan Williams 16 Sep '04

16 Sep '04

On Thu, 2004-09-16 at 16:10 +0100, Jonathan Andrews wrote: > www.wildpackets.com/elements/ whitepapers/Converting_Signal_Strength.pdf > > If RSSI is converted to a db scale by the driver and the kernel has the > ability to map db back to RSSI then this solves the problems. > > By doing it this way it wouldn't matter how linear the RSSI on the card > is (as the driver can correct). It wouldn't matter how many bits the > card used to represent RSSI internally. It also allows devices that have > a true db reading to map in without (much?) conversion. > > The kernel would then make available a meaningful and consistent RSSI > derived from the db reading its using internally. > > The applications can then read one or both of (db) and (RSSI - the new > strict linux kernel defined one - not the fluffy manufacturers one). > > All thats needed is a conversion from RSSI to db for each device, > simplest place to stick that is in the driver - why complicate life any > further ! One particular problem I referred to was with the Cisco drivers. There are two ways to get strength for an access point, one is through the wireless scan (if the drivers support it) and the other is using iw_get_range()/iw_get_stats() for strength info on the currently associated access point. Atmel drivers currently don't return _any_ quality information from wireless scans. Using iw_get_range/stats, the strength value returned is completely different than the value returned when the same access point shows up in the scan, even if you are associated with it right then. Also on the cisco drivers, there doesn't seem to be a good way to actually determine the signal strength from a scan. For both these methods, you get back an iw_quality structure that has: struct iw_quality { uint8 qual; uint8 level; uint8 noise; } ----- snip from iwlib.c /* People are very often confused by the 8 bit arithmetic happening * here. * All the values here are encoded in a 8 bit integer. 8 bit integers * are either unsigned [0 ; 255], signed [-128 ; +127] or * negative [-255 ; 0]. * Further, on 8 bits, 0x100 == 256 == 0. * * Relative/percent values are always encoded unsigned, between 0 and 255. * Absolute/dBm values are always encoded negative, between -255 and 0. * * How do we separate relative from absolute values ? We use the * range to do that. The range allow to specify the real min/max * of the value. As the range struct only specify one bound of the * value, we assume that the other bound is 0 (zero). * For relative values, range is [0 ; range->max]. * For absolute values, range is [range->max ; 0]. * * Let's take two example : * 1) value is 75%. qual->value = 75 ; range->max_qual.value = 100 * 2) value is -54dBm. noise floor of the radio is -104dBm. * qual->value = -54 = 202 ; range->max_qual.value = -104 = 152 * * Jean II */ ------ Now the "qual" field is kind of ambiguous, and drivers seem to put different values in there (Cisco drivers _always_ set this to 0 for wireless scans). What we're interested in is the level/noise structures. All these values are either Relative or Absolute. Absolute values are in dBm/rssi (drivers seem to mix this up a _lot_) while Relative values are 0-100 as a percentage. The application itself has to figure out which is being used. Next, the dBm values are in the range of 0 - 255 which is in actuality -127 - 128. Cisco drivers only return Noise information when calling iw_get_stats() but not for a wireless scan, and I've found you cannot use the noise value from stats() along with the wireless scan data, which is where this problem lies. Cisco drivers also use some magic numbers here and there that don't quite add up (for example, you'll see the RSSI subtracted from 256 in some places, or subtracted from 321 then divided by two in other places). Devices also have "max" and "average" quality information which may or may not get used at various points. If you are using Relative values, then you need to compare the qual.level against the "max" quality level and the qual.noise against the "max" noise. Different drivers use different methods. So here's what we need to do: 1) DEFINE what quality mode drivers should use (ie Relative/Absolute). As in, all values MUST be in dBm (mandating percentages would deprive userspace of useful data) 2) ENSURE that drivers use consistent information between the iw_get_range()/iw_get_stats() calls and wireless scanning quality data 3) ENSURE that drivers don't use any magic numbers Dan

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Re: [JPackage-discuss] User jonas
by Nicolas Mailhot 16 Sep '04

16 Sep '04

Le jeudi 16 septembre 2004 à 09:45 +0200, Fernando Nasser a écrit : > Hi, > > This is indeed a good point. I will take it to the jonas community. > > In the meanwhile, please note that the ascii display name of users and groups is > irrelevant. At the inner level Unix is all about numbers. Just rename your > group and user from jonas to jonasrun (or something elese you like) and all will > be well (as long as you don't change the numbers) -- at least until you try > and update... > > It is possible that you run into problems when updating the RPM., as the RPM > will try and install a user called jonas again. If this change is accepted > upstream, then I will add mechanisms for backward compatibility in the RPM scripts. However the problem also exists for amanda for example so before changing jonas a (semi) official RH/Suse/Mdk policy on allowed system user names would be nice (CC-ing fedora-devel) Cheers, -- Nicolas Mailhot

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Stateless Linux mailing list?
by Kenneth Porter 16 Sep '04

16 Sep '04

Considering how popular the topic is, does it not make sense to start a new mailing list? I ask this not in an attempt to drive the traffic off the Fedora list, but to make it easier for people to break the discussion up into distinct issue threads, which are all currently lumped into the one big thread. For example, the About document talks about a read-only root and the issues that arise, and I'd like to learn more about this. How can we get all services that use transient state from a DHCP client (eg. the resolver and the NTP daemon) to start looking for it somewhere else? (Please start a new thread if you want to tackle that question.)

2 1

Gnome 8.0
by James Harrison 16 Sep '04

16 Sep '04

Hi, Is it too late in the FC3 development cycle to use Gnome 8? James __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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devel September 2004