On 06/13/2011 03:27 PM, Alexander Kurtakov wrote:
On 02:12:43 PM Monday, June 13, 2011 Lucas wrote:
> >PLEASE give us a option for systems upgraded with yum
> >NOT USING "systemd" and force "upstart" as before
> >
> >* the system is running since years
> >* every dist-upgrade via yum was no problem
> >* now see screenshot
> >* WTF is there to relabel if started with "selinux=0"-kernel-param
> >
> >WHY IN THE WORLD ARE USERS FORCED TO USE SYSTEMD ONLY BECAUSE
> >THEY UPGRAD TO F15? DO THIS FOR NEW INSTALLATIONS BUT NEVER
> >ON UPDATES
> >
> >I DO NOT NEED SYSTEMD ON 20 SERVERS HERE BECAUSE THEY ARE STARTING
> >FAST ENOUGH AND I NEED NO MAGIC WHICH THINKS KNOWS WHAT TO START
> >IN WHICH ORDER SINCE I KNOW WHAT IS RUNNING ON MY SYSTEMS
>
> My opinion:
>
> You know what was wrong, sir - you put on your 20 servers Fedora - free
> software. And that means that you can't get personal support, because most
> of real developers are employees of Redhat.
> Have you notice that they use Fedora like a toy, to play with, to test a
> new ideas, to try new things on it. Developers do not count it like
> anything serious - it is a toy for them. Today they decided that upstart
> is wrong and they need systemd, tomorrow they can change their mind, they
> going to implement btrfs soon. Fedora is a test toy. Do not expect any
> respect for the long time use. And that is why linux is not so popular -
> it has always been a TOY and nothing more. Consider to use something
> different for your server or solve your problems by your self.
The generalization that we(Red Hat associates) see Fedora as a toy is
INSULTING.
Do you know how many of us are spending their free time to get Fedora better?
Do you know how many of us have worked on Fedora(or related things) before
working for Red Hat?
Do you know how big part of the Red Hat work is available in Fedora without
being available in RHEL?
Yes, we have opinions and we stick to them - most of the time without our
managers even know - because it's smth we do on our own. Speaking personally
everyone can accuse me of not fullfilling some user's wishes (which I'm not
oblided to do) but someone saying that I(we) look at Fedora as a toy is really
hurting a lot of feelings.
Alexander Kurtakov
>
> Thanks.
What do you think I thought when found that udev was compiled:
* Fri May 20 2011 Harald Hoyer <harald(a)redhat.com> 170-1
- version 170
- removed /sbin/start_udev
REMOVED /sbin/start_udev - this means that upstart wont be able to start udev without
manual tweak.
Upstart reads rc.sysinit and there is still "/sbin/start_udev". And also this
means that any one
who will try to use upstart in Fedora 16 (now rawhide) wont get udev works.
What do you think I thought about all of this?
I wont be really upset if I'll lose upstart, I can clean systemd as I need, but the
idea is wrong.
Systemd is just a project, project which may tomorrow be changed, so why all others have
to follow.
It should be like selinux, which can be easily disabled "selinux=0".
That is what I think.