Debian and Python 2 [Was: Re: Fedora 32 System-Wide Change proposal: Drop Optical Media Release Criterion]

[Peter Pentchev]

On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 05:30:14PM -0800, Adam Williamson wrote:
>  On Mon, 2019-12-16 at 16:52 -0700, John M. Harris Jr wrote:
[snip]
>  > This doesn't change the fact that many Python scripts
> *cannot run on Python 
>  > 3*. Debian is not a museum piece either, and yet they don't just kill the old 
>  > version. The two versions can, and do, work when both installed in parallel. 
>  
>  We are, uh, aware of this. They have been installed in parallel on most
>  Fedora installs for like a decade now.
>  
>  BTW, there is another point here which you may not appreciate: Fedora
>  and Debian aren't really in competition. Fedora does not see its job as
>  being to Conquer The World and have everyone run Fedora. Fedora is
>  targeted at particular purposes and particular audiences. If a given
>  feature isn't actually driving Fedora's mission forward in any way,
>  it's reasonable to consider not having it any more, or at least not
>  making it a core part of the distribution and subject to blocking
>  requirements and so on. There comes a point at which we don't need to
>  support Python 2 for the people and use cases at which Fedora is aimed.
>  Will there still be people who need Python 2 for *something* at this
>  point? Probably! But, just as you point out, if so, they can get it
>  somewhere else.
>  
>  Someone using Debian instead of Fedora because they need Python 2 isn't
>  necessarily a *problem* for Fedora. It's only a problem if it would've
>  served Fedora's goals and purposes for that person to be using Fedora.
>  If what they do isn't really a part of Fedora's goals...why should we
>  worry about them using Debian? Debian is a fine distribution. Nothing
>  wrong with it.
>  
>  To put it another way...Debian and Fedora have different purposes and
>  different goals. Us dropping Python 2 earlier than Debian do is *things
>  working the right way*. We (arguably) do more than Debian to drive the
>  adoption and stabilization of new technologies - new stuff tends to
>  show up in Fedora earlier than it shows up in Debian. Debian (arguably)
>  does more than we do to provide long-term support for older software
>  and support for alternate architectures. This is a *good* thing. It's
>  an ecosystem that helps everyone. 
Also, well, Debian *is* dropping Python 2 in its next release:
- https://lists.debian.org/debian-python/2019/07/msg00080.html
- https://wiki.debian.org/Python/2Removal

Many Python 2 modules have been dropped already, many others will be
dropped in the coming months. Yes, there are complications such as
Calibre, but this is, for all intents and purposes, practically
a release goal now.

Sorry for contributing to the more-and-more-off-topic rant, but I just
felt the need to point this out, since I've seen it mentioned a couple
of times recently.

G'luck,
Peter

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Peter Pentchev  roam(a){ringlet.net,debian.org,FreeBSD.org} pp(a)storpool.com
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