David Zeuthen wrote:
> Where are your bug reports to them? Your feature requests? Have
you
> even interacted with the hplip guys before?
No, I'm not the hplip package owner in any distribution and I just came
across this when looking at doing the ACL support things in HAL for
SANE. I'll probably try to talk to them, I was just shocked we actually
ship these bits.
I expect you will be pleased with their openness and responsiveness to
making things right. Which is exactly why I queried if you had
expressed your concerns to them.
"shocked"? Seriously David, I'm "shocked" that we still have
these
bugs: bz #218568, bz #177373, bz #216766. Which ones do you think more
people run into? Or do you think more people dig through hplip and say
"this is crap".
And these are direct end-user facing bugs, yet no one is saying let's
not make xen/gnome/etc. visible to the user.
> > - Not only that; starting this daemon is completely
useless unless you
>> have HP hardware. We still start it for everyone so everyone have
>> to suffer. That's bad.
> and so is:
> smartd when I don't have a smartd drive
> bluethooth when I don't have bluetooth
> etc
Two wrongs don't make a right (and, FWIW, I'm actually interacting with
the Bluez guys to make HAL start/stop the bluetooth daemons).
I can't agree more, but let's not set one standard for one piece of
software and not apply it evenly to others.
I don't see anyone filing bz's to remove my bluetooth icons though.
> It's nice to sit in your tower and throw rocks, but end then
end, some
> of us work with these products and are held accountable for things
> working or not, no matter what political or idealogical happenings go on
> at Fedora/Red Hat.
I think I said already these are my personal points of view and that I
wasn't speaking for Red Hat and obviously not Fedora. So I'm a bit
unhappy to see you attribute these points of view to Fedora/Red Hat.
Please don't do that. Thanks.
David, I apologize, this was not at all meant like that. Let me
rephrase that as it was not at all meant to be from a concern of your
working at RH.
Some people are idealistic in this regard. It does not affect their
work, performance, etc. regarding the product. I certainly have an
idealistic flair, but tend to very much be a realist and very pragmatic
when things must get done or must work.
RH/Fedora (employees) still tend to be the primary motivators for making
these sorts of decisions.
IMHO, is the bz # pointed out wrong in a) reason b) motivation c)
assessment, etc. (when compared to other pieces of software) yes.
Will it get changed? No probably not.
Can I point out a dozen or more equally egregious offenders? probably.
If I file bz to have their icons or functionality removed, will they get
removed? probably not.
Seems a bit of a double standard.. no?
For the record, I know plenty of Fedora people (both inside and
outside
of Red Hat) who, like you, are satisfied (and even excited) about the
status quo. Go figure.
What? Let me repeat:
[1] I am generally very happy with Fedora progress, I just have to
keep
reminding myself "everything takes time" :)
(emphasis on *progress*)
Rinse, lather, repeat. But in the interim, it must be usable. <insert
& repeat about being a realist/pragmatist>