On 16 July 2017 at 13:11, Kevin Kofler <kevin.kofler(a)chello.at> wrote:
Where's the problem?
The problem is it simply does not work on anything nontrivial that
needs an updated library dep of something already in Fedora. On your
stable system running F25, can you try installing a few new versions
of upstream-active applications in F27 that requires the new QT or
GTK? Before you know it your super-stable production system is a huge
mix of incompatible packages, which is unrecoverable. Downgrades are
not supported officially, and they're simply not something that is
tested. If it works, it's more by accident than design.
Flatpak lets me have multiple versions of apps installed, depending on
specific versions of base libraries. We can actually test an
application always works using a known set of libraries, rather than
the application exploding because it's not doing runtime checks for
subtle changes in library behaviour.
This is also trivial to offer in a UI.
I think you and I disagree on what trivial constitutes.
And the (unrelated) online update issue is really a non-issue in
as I explained in my reply to Debarshi Ray.
Until you're the person that's explaining to someone why their system
is HOSED (hint: that's usually me) because they rebooted during a live
update, please don't call this a non-issue. Moving to offline updates
reduced the number of people filing bugs about systems being broken by
about two orders of magnitude. "But it always worked fine for me"
doesn't scale to tens of millions of users.
Packages are a great way to build a system (either ostree or flatpak,
or both), but I think the last 15 years of experience shows us it's
not a great way to manage a system. Nobody is taking away packages. If
you want to use packages, fine, please don't prevent us doing new,