On Tue, 2019-07-23 at 13:32 -0400, Josh Boyer wrote:
On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 12:39 PM Kevin Fenzi <kevin(a)scrye.com>
> On 7/22/19 10:34 PM, Igor Gnatenko wrote:
> > On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 4:31 AM Igor Gnatenko
> > <ignatenkobrain(a)fedoraproject.org> wrote:
> > Thinking about this even more, it should not be very hard thing to do:
> > * Define new architecture in RPM/libsolv (let's call it "haswell"
> > "x86_64modern")
> > * Define set of capabilities it should have, write appropriate check
> > in RPM/libdnf
> > * Add new architecture in Fedora Koji
> > * Once bootstrapped, create composes
> > * At some point in future, merge this arch back to x86_64 and move forward
> > What do you think?
> Unless someone can show some kind of MASSIVE benefit, I'm not in favor.
I think too often we focus on the technical implications (performance
gain, etc) and sometimes don't consider wider aspects. So I'm curious
what your view is. Can you elaborate on what kind of benefit you
would view as warranting this?
> It's a ton of duplication of effort, tons more disk space, tons more cpu
> cycles wasted, a ton more mirror disk space, a ton more bandwith, etc.
So let's look at this statement, for example. Everything listed is
machine related, except the first part on duplication of effort.
Machine related items are solvable with more machine resources. (That
is not to be flippant, but it's far easier to solve than human
Well, sort of - except that, life being life, machines inevitably go
wrong. Fans give out and they choke. Builds mysteriously fail because
of some test flake or a neutrino hitting the CPU at just the wrong
moment or something. Disks go wonky. And all of these things get fixed
by...people. Adding an arch adds another arch worth of all those things
happening and needing to be fixed by someone.
Also, we can't really solve the machine resources of mirrors. Well, I
mean, I guess we *could*, but I doubt anyone in RH is going to sign off
on us buying a ton of expensive storage hardware and shipping it off to
random universities around the world...
On the effort part, what if we structured it so it wasn't
2x the effort. That would indeed be poor. If we assume for a minute
that we have the machine resources, we can certainly come up with
workflows that facilitate something like this in a manner that doesn't
cause a large human overhead. I'm actually thinking of other areas
that would benefit from not exactly the new architecture approach as
traditionally know, but a new target space that allows the Fedora
project to do new things.
I agree that this would be possible, but it comes with the caveat that
the people who would likely get stuck with improving the workflows are
the same people currently being overworked by the bad workflows.
The 'don't do a release for a year' proposal (or whatever variations of
it were discussed) was supposed to help with that kinda thing,
but...that didn't happen. So, we're all still on the treadmills.
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