On 23.01.2014 20:57, Matthew Miller wrote:
On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 07:03:02PM +0100, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote:
> Okay, I'll bite (after thinking whether writing this mail is worth it):
Thanks. I hope that I can make you feel that it was.
Thx for your answer – yes, I think it was worth it. But I hope I don't
get a Fedora badge that says "started a discussion in
devel@fedoraproject that made it to Phoronix" ;-)
I will be giving a talk on Sunday, February 9th in at DevConf in Brno, CZ,
and I'll post slides from that (probably here as text as well), and I assume
there will be video.
That's great (I'll be there; Fosdem as well), but please allow me a side
note here: Videos and IRC logs are a great resource if you really care
about something and want to know all the details. But the ratio for
"time spend watching/reading vs. information gathered" is often quite
bad. That's why written, easy to read summaries are important. And I
think we got too few of them from Flock last year, which is one of the
reason why I had/have problems to fully understand Fedora.next.
But also, I want to go back to the first part of my message that you're
responding to. I don't think our current online communication structure
really works very well for the kind of contributor you're concerned about.
(Let alone working very well for more active contributors who still don't
have time to read every list or hang out on IRC 24/7.) I think we need to
fix that, whether we consider that part of Fedora.next or a separate big
Agreed. For example, "+1/like"-Buttons for a mailing list would be good
afaics, to get a rough impression how people think (just wondering: will
hyperkitty or something from that camp of developers have this?). But
that's just one thing that springs to my mind and a different topic.
In addition: A few days ago someone shared the article "Top 10 ways to
ensure your best people will quit" on G+:
I normally don't read or like things like that much, but I enjoyed this
one. And I wondered if all of those points are relevant for Fedora as
well. I tend to think they are. Point "3" for example made me wonder if
every few months we should ask developers if they are happy with the
current state and how things evolve. Obviously automated web based
questioning system or something like that. Something simple could do for
the start. That way we could get early warning signs if developers are
unhappy, to do something before they leave.
> I have many more thoughts in my head, but I'll stop here, as
> basically the most important things that bother me right now when
> looking at Fedora and Fedora.next.
I appreciate it. Does anything I've said help you feel better about it?
To be honest: only a little bit. Fedora.next simply is so big (I'm
wondering if too much is cramped into it) and still vague in some parts
that I remain careful. But that's not unusual, I'm quite sceptic all the
time and more of a pessimist ;-)
I would like to hear more of your thoughts, too.
In the past few months a few people encouraged be to write down how I'd
design Fedora if I could. Maybe I should finally do that – but OTOH I'm
not sure if that is worth the work and if it's really helpful for the
And for now I have something else I need to take care of first:
preparing my devconf talk :D
Cu & have a nice weekend everyone