docs April 2006

docs@lists.fedoraproject.org

27 participants
28 discussions

TOC for Command Prompt Survival Guide
by James McElhannon 16 May '06

16 May '06

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi All, I wanted to propose the following TOC for the Command Prompt Survival Guide, one of the current Doc Ideas... I would plan on submitting this document to the LDP, too. Their equivalent doc is aging and is lite on details. Please let me know your feedback. - --- There are 5 chapters shown below, with the sections numbered. The Concepts chapter sets forth just enough theory to be able to use the commands below. The Scenario chapter would put forth some common scenarios that people would be faced with. The text would describe the usage of a set of commands to perform a task, cross referenced to the Commonly Used Commands section. The Commonly Used Commands would not be a reproduction of the man pages, but would instead focus on the common usage of the command. The Tools would section would be brief scripts to make some things easier. I would expect that the details of this section would arise during the writing of the rest of the text. Any redundant operations shown during the Scenarios would be candidates. Introduction 1. General introduction Concepts: 1. Shells 2. Executables and Processes 3. stdout, stderr, stdin 4. Scripts 5. Permissions 6. Redirection and Pipes 7. Bash prompt customization Scenarios 1. Handling zip/gz files 2. Handling tar files ... ... Commonly Used Commands: 1. basename 2. bash 3. bunzip 4. bzip 5. cd 6. chgrp 7. chmod 8. chown 9. clear 10. cp 11. cut 12. echo 13. expr 14. find 15. finger 16. grep 17. gunzip 18. gzip 19. head 20. hostname 21. info 22. kill 23. ln 24. ls 25. man 26. mkdir 27. more 28. mv 29. ping 30. popd 31. ps 32. pushd 33. rm 34. rmdir 35. rpm 36. set 37. stty 38. su 39. sudo 40. tail 41. tar 42. test [] 43. traceroute 44. uname 45. wait 46. wc 47. where 48. who am i 49. whoami Tools 1. echodo ... ... - --- - -- James McElhannon jlm(a)magnifisys.com MagnifiSys, LLC www.magnifisys.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (MingW32) iD8DBQFEUoAa9KWEMihy1VsRAkRoAKCK6SrTfOj88bimwTbfZwhkd/iIvwCcCosD Yc1vIVhw7MEb2b0k7DEaYgI= =zrQY -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Self-Introduction: James McElhannon
by James McElhannon 02 May '06

02 May '06

*** Full legal name (as you use it is fine) James McElhannon *** City, Country Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA *** Profession or Student status I'm a technical product manager for a software company in the international aviation industry. I write a ton of technical documents. *** Company, School, or other affiliation I have a BS in Computer Science, an MBA, and I'm a certified Project Management Professional (PMP) * Your goals in the Fedora Project *** What do you want to write about? I'm open... At first, I saw the 'command line survival guide' that I'd like to claim. *** What other documentation do you want to see published? More documentation for the uninitiated, for those curious Windows users who know that Windows is not the answer, but they are scared... *** Do you want to edit for grammar/writing and/or technical accuracy? I would prefer to write my own material first, but that would be fine if that's what is needed. *** Anything else special? Sorry, but I can't juggle... :) * Historical qualifications *** What other projects or writing have you worked on in the past? I write technical documents at work every day. I've also self published Introduction to SQL, available on LuLu. *** What level and type of computer skills do you have? I have excellent Windows and Unix/Linux skills. *** What other skills do you have that might be applicable? User interface design, other so-called soft skills (people skills), programming, etc. I have experience with programming in multiple languages (Visual Basic, Visual C++, C and C++ on Unix and Linux, Pascal, ... I have done GUI and CUI design work. I have extensive experience as a project manager. *** What makes you an excellent match for the project? My education, experience, and desire... *** GPG KEYID and fingerprint -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (MingW32) mQGiBERQ88ARBAC/QnwoWSOfHrVjAPQpXGLjl7yZhNmRkdTeES/+0Aftvq7RopsH xAcZbSJU1hRPvK0piPN9l52yquPAvElmmoH/HMbWbyDp4axvvFYyy/faaRb3KiN3 OCxoigQoDEgz6EjBpaFGMxvpsdvUSUzfL4265DyiVSAYZ3gxaKgiXaUqgwCghfKn q64p+eiBGbAl/AUj/Sxw7fUD/3ogxEKW9eOoiqP1L7vZ19voRJQnbx+hDOt7zznt lT+u0xScAf4gkauuvO73Y+dmNeSQ8EDi38eEOxrDgM7rKxFjkfZcJVrKXF6UaQ1P GlsJ37sUcdfdTAah5TewGjFyBfOnipUTTbC23xIaz9qfEALkVUMdn1RMPORFXMdq caeGA/9uVK+SoIS8NX0LImqrfAQcCAS8llFdcHjaR/goEWSwPg9A1SuzxF7CiSF1 ja5ZfAJ6W/YAi2FxVaf2pnYnxaPh4hep//WCJHfl/gc7RknQv5AxB3BRYOLjSRbt hXgc7J/NtExE1TKGZG+DS54/gIuBmletbEcmenVh5eERfcM8Y7QlSmFtZXMgTWNF bGhhbm5vbiA8amxtQG1hZ25pZmlzeXMuY29tPohmBBMRAgAmBQJEUPPAAhsDBQkB 4TOABgsJCAcDAgQVAggDBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQ7NR57ieH1AzbSgCfaYZRww5r WoakZVDz0SKhc5g8vYUAoIFB86BEG/WV934rRFRWY8iXx7exuQINBERQ89EQCACN KgkputMRo1h/fTf4XLm8+KBmNJTRv5caa2d53thXfdVAbwuYYRcyjNEu5vJiETSh NLUWWaqijCugH0PYbPmLmtY4n5j8tiI0IOpY377ZP7FMxWvPe9YNaXZjbEeoNcsv 2YWKwoxVvVi109t1EAQ+CF6y5tBTEQG+8U3vM7nTOsikB7+96ByaOpjNxqaP8EnC MfsWaEkFLisGw7fQu+1HIO/+geL6EDtRmj6NHeL9S6pGmZ3F2Qoy1z0PbkfVzJ9r QC5gN1YHLCbpcXcwO5SoFLk4KgKrl+Ut2B5yR1ldsakccseDJcBb4fnBEa0SmZQS ZNkHXNsxc29PDzdMRXM3AAMFB/4h0H+baD1BA7RVb2n6CXzQP6cklIodn53V9dPm CBDggwPm6r+A6Bc5P+h5bPZ0U+NdUqaphOIhiZ4ipj5TdY03OPA1QALlmE0gNOMl 7x6FkeqvIuyP2bK0QRQk0TDiqMJP3cpAvHHyTZH2eeUPt/GlU8TRHKGJHqt5looT 9W46AcDSxvAY+n+18j2LprLIMzuHaH/MMQo6mgNnnPQj8mNSRGbxcpyAGhxxPS9r 7oAtaiFB91jcRrpvNVaALAfkUhBqeLIMZGAdEwWgJubz3CSHP0LCiQ7UL58PjH0N GFwX00m7i/+MKmLLT1mD3I58IlzqVtdTA3hI5fTT+g2iTdLZiE8EGBECAA8FAkRQ 89ECGwwFCQHhM4AACgkQ7NR57ieH1AyaswCfbPpbttsEt/mmAqPHRw6ncljkPTIA oIGkxlnbTW0utIGVopo1AQ4J8kNm =SxrO -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- pub 1024D/2787D40C 2006-04-27 [expires: 2007-04-27] Key fingerprint = CDCC 7B5F E7AA 88C5 EA8B A01F ECD4 79EE 2787 D40C uid James McElhannon <jlm(a)magnifisys.com> sub 2048g/A7677CCA 2006-04-27 [expires: 2007-04-27] *** Be sure that your GPG key is uploaded to pgp.mit.edu. done

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I did it!
by Edward Haddock 01 May '06

01 May '06

Aloha, Pardon the newbie excitement but I have successfully mapped a half-height external USB Hard Drive as my /home and after copying /home in FC4 to it then booting into FC5 and mapping /home to it...presto bango...I am now running FC5 no worries. I did lose a few things in the transfer but not much. Which is quite an accomplishment for a newbie like myself. Matter of fact, on a back burner, I may start writing about this. I think that given the popularity I am seeing it may be wise to tell people about this kind of thing so that upgrades go easier. Plus it puts your data on a different partition. Anyone got any advice on what else should be separated like that? Mahalo, Edward

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Draft document on burning ISO images
by Rahul Sundaram 28 Apr '06

28 Apr '06

Hi http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/BurningDiscs This would be a very important document for non technical users attempting to start using Fedora. More content and editorial reviews would be helpful from the lurkers in this list. Rahul

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Re: [Fedora Project Wiki] Update of "Docs/Drafts/SystemPlanningGuide" by SamFolkWilliams
by Paul W. Frields 28 Apr '06

28 Apr '06

Comments below: On Wed, 2006-04-26 at 19:35 +0000, fedorawiki-noreply(a)fedoraproject.org wrote: > The following page has been changed by SamFolkWilliams: > http://fedora.linux.duke.edu/wiki/Docs/Drafts/SystemPlanningGuide > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [...snip...] > - What is open source, how that affects > + 1. Before you begin the install > + * Decide how to structure your file system > + * Case scenarios > + * Example configurations > + * Decide if you wish to use LVM and/or software RAID > + * Benefits of > + * Hardware requirements > + * Limitations > + * Determine your firewall requirements > + * Overview of how iptables works ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ How much detail here is going to be dependent on the target audience. To determine your target audience, define what knowledge, skills, and abilities a reader must possess for this guide to be useful. I think it would be useful for the contributors to discuss the target audience before filling in too much more detail here. Such a discussion would probably cut down on effort spent arguing over how much information to include. > + * Importance of > + * Example configurations, including info on how to change later on > + * Determine what packages you want or need to install > + * Default, or not default > + * How to update/install software later ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Point to Stuart's yum guide rather than rewriting. We don't want to have to maintain two documents every time something changes in a release. > + * Everything and minimal options (Why no longer available) See numerous threads in f-devel-list... ;-D > - * what is in a distribution (nothing proprietary in Fedora) > - * software lifecycle (major releases twice a year, frequent updates that you can download automatically) > - * the choices you get when you install Fedora (many packages to choose among including several choices for most major functions, up to and including your desktop environment; you can build a very small and simple system or a system that is very rich) > - * how you get help (from the community, not customer service; pointers to other pages about mailinglists and websites; bug-reporting tools that have the additional benefit of letting you see exactly what bugs have been reported and how they are being acted on) > + 1. Post-install planning > + * The Firstboot and basic configuration > + * Overview of package management strategy > + * Overview of basic "Newbie" pointers > + * How to get help > + * What now? (Further reading) Careful here, this is starting to look somewhat repetitive with the Installation Guide! I would recommend everyone read that cover-to-cover to familiarize themselves with the content. No reason you can't argue to move something out of the IG and into the SPG, but again, conserve energy where possible... -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/

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RE: Self-Introduction: James McElhannon
by James McElhannon 27 Apr '06

27 Apr '06

OK, so naturally, as a first-time GPG user, I've hosed it up... The info in my original post, and reproduced below with the ">" leaders, is junk. The correct information is immediately below. Sorry. ++++++++++++++++++++++++ pub 1024D/2872D55B 2006-04-27 [expires: 2011-04-26] Key fingerprint = F926 5FC2 C48F 8C43 8C3C EB4E F4A5 8432 2872 D55B uid James McElhannon <jlm(a)magnifisys.com> sub 1024g/EA46BF92 2006-04-27 [expires: 2011-04-26] ++++++++++++++++++++++++ -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (MingW32) mQGiBERRJN0RBAC+GJt1+ue6IXCxgzpw/JZCm7pUgAvVRAEqJVke2FZTqRW1K+ss ue3dhcys3J0S0/8Alg/vDT9fX+4JykzpqvabxizBwrIH1hPZgTOuRg3k6VipcLKL S08AfDWQjqSObPqY1MJAGwpT+ketBkAXio1PRanZepkw/WOuNXAbuX2XtwCgpZrY EA9X7HUERKc6H6dgU0D1Xw8EALLXhrqN/3gxaEW4jy0vYqVIkDwk8mzyMxFFzQJG oqkjWgRRUTch5uFfCb0O5sRS1F2W1Cli49c0dXsYpgijfmjB1FKaIF9dYUur9wFL 03wqpFKM2Qbaw1Tca358uFEYRk3mWdG7XQb4cGWelL6t2hNEytYOr8bPF4/Pyr6G txwzBACq6rzUP/Mwxiq2xq/jZxAznFpsSC3dIReQLcyQn6ke6a/2qkR5rNVroNhY cJ1UnJu+emKwXfYN0xajmPmD49po9RdlUCn/mAFSNsBi7QU5zYNH1leITgV3RSgi kdVb/srfd5sI4d9NpFRXATxdUwlvHBG1X5Is8GFCpnxV/tBzGrQlSmFtZXMgTWNF bGhhbm5vbiA8amxtQG1hZ25pZmlzeXMuY29tPohmBBMRAgAmBQJEUSTdAhsDBQkJ ZgGABgsJCAcDAgQVAggDBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQ9KWEMihy1VuFwACgi8hjTL35 /KIBtRXNWo6VA/qng8kAoJdEhs6DzTyc7XOAk2RAWsowG+NvuQENBERRJN8QBADH jUzjp6Pme/AAmWtMhp5oaozMPYA5CNUgtpVTZPOrzMk/hcQuNMQEoTphfvQVHqz8 zIE3+VQrr76iZwfMdkmTEQJBYwV80Re/ZMy8tWINPJxlqct7zF8rDGTCVUh529ep z4J1KMXeROJT6Ei9RQ/FHTf5kZdEJIfZBwdN0dyU3wAECwP/asPtSW18VsxomFDc se2AukWp49r3o0vxJeAF3imVI62oHqYhJm8F0nnsO6A4p+Zkx65k7FngZOJ4oVnc Wf2waiHY761175LY293FNtvknBn6MwaSsmnS8M+7Q8qfG/PnzCR+3VufJvfkkxo3 TnfbPZWHP0m6LOjfNluPHkvuLKmITwQYEQIADwUCRFEk3wIbDAUJCWYBgAAKCRD0 pYQyKHLVW3QpAJ4h0cgpCTfT+bxx/sP6uJRICmWzOQCfV1XH51o3qYyCKqeafM13 /LPqBPE= =/yWC -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- ++++++++++++++++++++++++ >*** GPG KEYID and fingerprint > >-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- >Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (MingW32) > >mQGiBERQ88ARBAC/QnwoWSOfHrVjAPQpXGLjl7yZhNmRkdTeES/+0Aftvq7RopsH >xAcZbSJU1hRPvK0piPN9l52yquPAvElmmoH/HMbWbyDp4axvvFYyy/faaRb3KiN3 >OCxoigQoDEgz6EjBpaFGMxvpsdvUSUzfL4265DyiVSAYZ3gxaKgiXaUqgwCghfKn >q64p+eiBGbAl/AUj/Sxw7fUD/3ogxEKW9eOoiqP1L7vZ19voRJQnbx+hDOt7zznt >lT+u0xScAf4gkauuvO73Y+dmNeSQ8EDi38eEOxrDgM7rKxFjkfZcJVrKXF6UaQ1P >GlsJ37sUcdfdTAah5TewGjFyBfOnipUTTbC23xIaz9qfEALkVUMdn1RMPORFXMdq >caeGA/9uVK+SoIS8NX0LImqrfAQcCAS8llFdcHjaR/goEWSwPg9A1SuzxF7CiSF1 >ja5ZfAJ6W/YAi2FxVaf2pnYnxaPh4hep//WCJHfl/gc7RknQv5AxB3BRYOLjSRbt >hXgc7J/NtExE1TKGZG+DS54/gIuBmletbEcmenVh5eERfcM8Y7QlSmFtZXMgTWNF >bGhhbm5vbiA8amxtQG1hZ25pZmlzeXMuY29tPohmBBMRAgAmBQJEUPPAAhsDBQkB >4TOABgsJCAcDAgQVAggDBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQ7NR57ieH1AzbSgCfaYZRww5r >WoakZVDz0SKhc5g8vYUAoIFB86BEG/WV934rRFRWY8iXx7exuQINBERQ89EQCACN >KgkputMRo1h/fTf4XLm8+KBmNJTRv5caa2d53thXfdVAbwuYYRcyjNEu5vJiETSh >NLUWWaqijCugH0PYbPmLmtY4n5j8tiI0IOpY377ZP7FMxWvPe9YNaXZjbEeoNcsv >2YWKwoxVvVi109t1EAQ+CF6y5tBTEQG+8U3vM7nTOsikB7+96ByaOpjNxqaP8EnC >MfsWaEkFLisGw7fQu+1HIO/+geL6EDtRmj6NHeL9S6pGmZ3F2Qoy1z0PbkfVzJ9r >QC5gN1YHLCbpcXcwO5SoFLk4KgKrl+Ut2B5yR1ldsakccseDJcBb4fnBEa0SmZQS >ZNkHXNsxc29PDzdMRXM3AAMFB/4h0H+baD1BA7RVb2n6CXzQP6cklIodn53V9dPm >CBDggwPm6r+A6Bc5P+h5bPZ0U+NdUqaphOIhiZ4ipj5TdY03OPA1QALlmE0gNOMl >7x6FkeqvIuyP2bK0QRQk0TDiqMJP3cpAvHHyTZH2eeUPt/GlU8TRHKGJHqt5looT >9W46AcDSxvAY+n+18j2LprLIMzuHaH/MMQo6mgNnnPQj8mNSRGbxcpyAGhxxPS9r >7oAtaiFB91jcRrpvNVaALAfkUhBqeLIMZGAdEwWgJubz3CSHP0LCiQ7UL58PjH0N >GFwX00m7i/+MKmLLT1mD3I58IlzqVtdTA3hI5fTT+g2iTdLZiE8EGBECAA8FAkRQ >89ECGwwFCQHhM4AACgkQ7NR57ieH1AyaswCfbPpbttsEt/mmAqPHRw6ncljkPTIA >oIGkxlnbTW0utIGVopo1AQ4J8kNm >=SxrO >-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- > >pub 1024D/2787D40C 2006-04-27 [expires: 2007-04-27] > Key fingerprint = CDCC 7B5F E7AA 88C5 EA8B A01F ECD4 79EE 2787 D40C >uid James McElhannon <jlm(a)magnifisys.com> >sub 2048g/A7677CCA 2006-04-27 [expires: 2007-04-27] > >*** Be sure that your GPG key is uploaded to pgp.mit.edu. > >done -- James McElhannon jlm(a)magnifisys.com www.magnifisys.com

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It's all gone to POT: the XML strings, that is.
by Tommy Reynolds 27 Apr '06

27 Apr '06

Hello, Translators! The first stage of reworking (aka "getting it to work the first time") of the translation toolchain is complete. Time to check it out, translators! Before, we tried very hard to keep every &entity; reference intact within the XML. The idea was that we could use a single translation of the document and FDP entities. The idea was good: be able to change an entity string in a single place and have all XML references pick up the change. The idea just didn't work. The translation tools don't work like that, as far as we understand them. So, I've made two changes in the way that we use the tools. Firstly, all translatable strings are now placed in the "po/${DOCBASE}.pot" file. Previously, we kept the strings from the "${DOC_ENTITIES}.xml" file in its own .POT file. If you have any .POT file OTHER than "po/${DOCBASE}.pot", you can safely delete it. We won't use it any more. Secondly, entity references are no longer preserved in the "po/${DOCBASE}.pot" file. This means that ANY entity reference in the original XML files will be fully-expanded into its replacement text within the .POT file. Yes, this means that you may have to make the same change to the same string in several places around the document, but that is the way it seems to work. As always, please try it out and post any comments, questions, kudos, brickbats, or credit card information to this list. Cheers -- I'm already an anomaly, I shall soon be an anachronism, and I have every intention of dying an abuse!

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Schedule notes
by Paul W. Frields 26 Apr '06

26 Apr '06

For FDSCo and Board information: * I will not be able to make tomorrow's (25 Apr 2006) FDSCo meeting, since I will be supervising some work for an office relocation which will keep me late at the office. I'll look for the notes and minutes to get up to speed. * At my new office, our new broadband line is not ready, and may not arrive for some time. In the meantime we will be sharing a pipe with another group, and their various and poorly-conceived security regulations may make it impossible (or at least very difficult) for me to be active online (IRC, etc.) during the day. I'll try to take care of as much work as I can after hours; your patience is appreciated! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/

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Translation fixes
by Paul W. Frields 26 Apr '06

26 Apr '06

I noticed something in our build tools which seems to me a problem: our POT file only includes the msgstr information for the XMLFILES but does not include the DOC_ENTITIES. If we can (and should) only have one $(LANG).po file per language, shouldn't all the XML strings for translation be in the one POT? -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/

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Content for Plone
by Paul W. Frields 22 Apr '06

22 Apr '06

Hi all Docsters, One of the issues which arose in the last Fedora Project Board meeting was the steady (rising?) number of complaints about how many account system requirements there are for new contributors. We already know that having no single sign-on capability makes the process harder than it needs to be; this is already under discussion, so, since we Docs folks can't solve that problem, let's talk about the problems we *can* solve. * Some new contributors are not familiar with GPG or SSH. * The account system has a number of steps and an interface that is not particularly warm and friendly for newcomers. * The wiki pages speak to the requirements but do not give concrete (and hopefully foolproof) command line steps for making things Just Work. * In many cases they link outbound to other pages for what is supposed to be more information, but which is woefully inadequate. The fact that we have so many people putting content on the wiki is *fantastic*, but for canonical docs like "setting up a Fedora account," we need simple, step-by-step, procedural guides that don't send people on a wild goose chase around the wiki. We have a number of people who have taken time and effort to come to us with offers of help, only to find that juts getting to the point where they can contribute is an enormous time sink! This is just unacceptable IMHO, and I hope that you share this opinion -- especially since we are the folks who should be making this easy. As a Board member, I'm coming to the Docs Project to ask for help in getting content to the new Plone CMS *before* it goes live. The Plone CMS (refer to http://fpserv.fedoraproject.org/ if you have no idea what I'm talking about) will, one day Real Soon Now, supplant or overarch the wiki. We want the launch of the Plone CMS to *lower the barriers* for folks. We want to get Docs support to identify and push this content ASAP. As a member of the Docs Project, I want to get people excited about a chance for us to kickstart the CMS and get some additional project visibility. This idea of "lowering barriers" is nothing new for Docs -- it's something we've discussed often in Docs; something we've tried hard to do with our toolchain, our attitudes, and this very list; and something we can now exemplify in the community. I think it will also energize some of our newcomers and hopefully bring in other fresh faces (and hands). 1. Who wants to take on the Account Setup Guide? Keep in mind you won't have to do an awful lot of writing; it's mostly just collecting written bits from the wiki, expanding them where needed, and making sure everything flows nicely for an absolute newcomer. 2. How can we make our toolchain do the majority of the work for the CMS, like publishing and such? This is a more subtle question that probably needs some batting around, and will require coordination with Websites. Seth Vidal and I will help connect these dots, but folks here are intimate with our toolchain and we should be prepared to come to the table with some answers. 3. It might be a good idea for us to start thinking about what docs content is "faster-evolving" than we can or should keep up with in CVS. Enough of my yakkin'. Whaddaya say? Let's boogie. Input, please, and remember to use long descriptive sentences where possible for those of us who are new at this game! That's speaking not just for newcomers, but for myself as well, a Bear of Very Little Brain. :-) The foregoing is a brain dump from about midnight last night, and I was fading fast, so if you see something scatterbrained, please point it out in the interest of generating more sane discussion. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/

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