00:00:29 <sparks> #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda:
00:00:29 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Dec 24 00:00:29 2009 UTC. The chair is
sparks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot
00:00:29 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
00:00:39 <sparks> #chair jjmcd
00:00:39 <zodbot> Current chairs: jjmcd sparks
00:00:46 <sparks> #topic Roll Call
00:00:47 * sparks
00:00:59 * jjmcd .
00:01:23 * nb .
00:01:38 <ianweller> oh look, a meeting
00:03:33 <quaid> oi!
00:03:47 <sparks> wow! quaid is here!
00:03:52 <quaid> :D
00:04:17 <sparks> Okay, let's get started.
00:04:46 <sparks> #topic F13 Docs Schedule
00:05:13 <sparks> So we had a two and a half hour phone conference/Gobby meeting
00:05:37 <sparks> where we got the F13 release schedule hammered out.
00:05:37 <jjmcd> Great fun it was
00:06:00 <sparks> So we made a few changes from previous releases that we need to
talk about tonight.
00:06:58 <sparks> The first items is that we aren't going to freeze development
of the Release Notes or Guides until the very end
00:07:22 <sparks> So everyone should keep working through the Alpha and Beta
00:07:50 <sparks> Any questions about this or any comments?
00:08:08 <jjmcd> We will be producing pots for L10N on a regular schedule
00:08:08 <ianweller> what reason was there for that?
00:08:20 <sparks> jjmcd: Yeah, that's the next thing.
00:08:30 <sparks> ianweller: for which that?
00:08:33 <jjmcd> All the branches we had to keep track of what L10N had was
00:08:37 <ianweller> 18:06:52 < sparks> The first items is that we aren't
going to freeze development of the Release Notes or Guides until the very end
00:08:40 <ianweller> ^ that that
00:08:44 <sparks> :)
00:08:50 <jjmcd> ANd really, we were giving them the MINIMUM amount of time to
00:08:50 <sparks> Yeah, it just doesn't make sense.
00:09:02 <ianweller> oic
00:09:04 <jjmcd> This way they get the maximum amount of time
00:09:10 <sparks> yeah
00:09:20 <jjmcd> We had changes we were holding for them that they could have been
00:10:15 <sparks> The second thing we decided was that we were going to push POT
00:10:33 <jjmcd> This way, As soon as we have text it will be available for L10N
00:10:35 <sparks> so nightly we should be pushing updated POT files so the
translators aren't just sitting around waiting
00:11:37 <sparks> that means that the guides should be pushing POTs now! (Except we
are still waiting for Transifex 0.7)
00:12:24 <sparks> Anything else on this topic?
00:13:25 <sparks> #topic Sandbox on Fedora People
00:13:33 <sparks> jjmcd: Want to talk about this?
00:13:38 <jjmcd> For Fedora 12, we built release notes each night for L10N. It
turns out I didn't have the quota on fedorapeople.org
for 42 languages, so I ended up
putting them on is-sixsigma.com
where I had some space.
00:13:54 <jjmcd> Having the RNs on an external host doesn't have the caché of
having them on fedoraproject, and it doesn't do anything for guides.
00:14:07 <jjmcd> Ricky agreed to make us a group place where we can put draft
00:14:24 <jjmcd> People in docs will have write access to /srv/groups/docs and that
will be accessible via http://fedorapeople.org/groups/docs/
00:14:36 <jjmcd> Just remember that files owned by you in that directory still count
against your quota, so let infra know if you need more.
00:15:13 <jjmcd> I think that sums it up
00:15:17 <jjmcd> Any questions?
00:15:41 <jjmcd> This is for drafts. Finished docs still on docs.fp.o
00:15:57 <sparks> ya
00:17:06 <sparks> Okay, works for me... We'll publish the path when it is all
00:18:01 <sparks> Okay, moving on
00:18:07 <sparks> #topic Release Notes
00:18:18 <sparks> jjmcd: Anything you want to talk about on this?
00:18:23 <jjmcd> I think we covered the exciting stuff
00:18:32 <sparks> Works for me
00:18:36 <jjmcd> We have a handful of bugs before we push an update
00:18:58 <jjmcd> One thing I should mention
00:19:35 <jjmcd> I am giving serious consideration to doing the F13 notes in html
rather than Yelp. Plenty of time to change so if you want to dissuade me ....
00:20:31 <sparks> Well... As long as it is easy for the users to find the documents
from the GUI...
00:20:45 <jjmcd> html addresses other desktops and I now know how to get the same
functionality as yelp
00:20:50 <sparks> I don't have a problem with it. I'm hoping Yelp 3.x will
fix a lot of problems for us.
00:21:06 <jjmcd> IF it addresses KDE, XFCE
00:21:18 <sparks> ya
00:22:16 <jjmcd> On the menu they will be hidden under "Release Notes"
instead of "Help"
00:22:44 <sparks> And you can have it automagically select the proper language?
00:22:54 <jjmcd> of Vrigave Informatie nar Hulp
00:23:35 <sparks> I'm going to assume that means yes
00:23:39 <jjmcd> yes
00:23:44 <sparks> :)
00:23:47 <sparks> Make it so
00:23:53 <jjmcd> Not just the doc, but also the menu
00:23:59 <sparks> perfect
00:24:04 <sparks> and it's all in the same SRPM?
00:24:07 <jjmcd> yes
00:24:22 <jjmcd> You didn't read the C, did you?
00:24:43 <jjmcd> I know, C is a write-only language
00:25:09 <sparks> I looked at it briefly but I haven't had a chance to study it
00:25:47 <jjmcd> It really is pretty simple
<head> rather than <body>
00:26:57 <jjmcd> Strangely, in <body> it works sometimes for some languages
00:27:05 <sparks> Hmmm
00:27:23 <jjmcd> but in <head> it always works
00:27:30 <sparks> well, there you go
00:27:41 <jjmcd> ja
00:28:21 <sparks> Okay... anything else?
00:28:26 <jjmcd> not here
00:28:39 <sparks> Okay.. moving on
00:28:52 <sparks> #topic Status on CMS (Zikula)
00:29:00 <sparks> Anyone have any updates on this?
00:29:39 <sparks> ke4qqq: You around tonight?
00:30:48 <sparks> Okay, maybe he'll be around in a few minutes.
00:31:09 <sparks> #topic Does yum langpack support help us?
00:31:17 <sparks> Do we have anything else on this?
00:32:42 <sparks> I guess not
00:32:51 <sparks> #topic Guide Status
00:33:07 <sparks> Okay, anyone have anything they want to talk about on their Guide
00:34:06 <sparks> I'd like some help writing up a section of the Security Guide
00:34:35 <jjmcd> Is that even understandable by mortals?
00:35:22 <sparks> PolicyKit? I want to make it understandable...
00:35:24 <sparks> if I can understand it
00:35:49 <jjmcd> I just assumed it was as impenetrable as SELinux policies
00:36:16 <sparks> SELinux isn't impenetrable
00:36:21 <sparks> that's a guide for that
00:36:41 <jjmcd> Yeah, and books. And it makes good sense until you try to
understand a policy
00:36:56 <sparks> heh
00:37:23 <jjmcd> I figured "policy" was a code word for too complicated
00:37:49 <sparks> nah
00:38:31 <sparks> anything else?
00:39:29 <sparks> #topic New Guides
00:39:40 <sparks> Anyone have any new guides?
00:40:56 <sparks> #topic Outstanding BZ Tickets
00:41:58 <sparks> There are quite a few open tickets for Fedora Documentation
00:42:15 <jjmcd> most look to be chapter reviews
00:42:24 <sparks> Yes
00:42:56 <jjmcd> I screwed up by not tracking down notting this week I hope I
don't have to wait for Jan 4
00:42:58 <sparks> There are quite a few customer requests in there too
00:43:10 <sparks> Might have to
00:43:29 <jjmcd> yeah. Just dunno
00:44:13 <sparks> Okay, anything else on this>?
00:45:05 <sparks> #topic Everything else
00:45:14 <sparks> Anyone have anything they want to discuss?
00:45:33 <jjmcd> Do you want a 10 minute tutorial on multilanguage rpm?
00:45:48 <sparks> Now? If you want to.
00:46:02 <jjmcd> Pretty straightforward if you have the stomach for it
00:46:57 <jjmcd> I don't hear anyone running away screaming
00:47:17 <jjmcd> OK, first, you need a tar. The tar has your doc in a directory per
00:47:43 <jjmcd> A lot like you have in Publican, except the "format"
directory pulled out
00:47:51 <jjmcd> You need 3 additional files
00:48:11 <jjmcd> At the top level, you have an index.html with some magical
00:48:42 <jjmcd> In head, it grabs the browser's language
00:49:07 <jjmcd> In body, it compares the browser language to the list and launches
the doc based on the list
00:49:42 <jjmcd> The one tricky part is the language from the browser might be, for
example, bn, bn-IN, or bn_IN
00:49:52 <jjmcd> THe list contains bn-IN
00:50:19 <jjmcd> If there is a hit against bn-IN, use it. If not, look for bn* and
use the value from the list
00:50:31 <jjmcd> The two other files are desktop files, almost the same
00:51:00 <jjmcd> The menu language in the desktop file can be stolen from
Article_Info.xml in the appropriate language
00:51:10 <jjmcd> The two desktop files are almost identical
00:51:42 <jjmcd> Now, the rpm install puts the index file in
00:51:50 <sparks> Anyway we can script this?
00:51:58 <jjmcd> And the publican in
00:52:06 <jjmcd> Yes, that is what the C program does
00:52:24 <jjmcd> You simply give it a publican directory and get an RPM
00:52:42 <sparks> cool
00:52:48 <sparks> You going to package it?
00:52:52 <jjmcd> The desktop files go in /usr/share/applications and
00:53:03 <jjmcd> I wasn't planning on it, but I suppose I could
00:53:20 <jjmcd> There is a pdf in there that has a gory description of the program
00:54:05 <jjmcd> I have 2 tars on my fedorapeople, one for the app and doc and
another for the source
00:54:15 <sparks> cool
00:54:42 <jjmcd> I called it buildrpm. If I was going to package it I would rename
it to something less generic
00:54:59 <sparks> ya
00:54:59 <jjmcd> like package-fedora-doc or something
00:55:32 <jjmcd> But if you build a guide in a few languages, you should be able to
00:55:39 <jjmcd> then install the rpm and try it out
00:55:52 <jjmcd> It packages what html
00:55:54 <jjmcd> s
00:55:58 <jjmcd> you have built
00:56:11 <jjmcd> so you can package any arbitrary collection of languages
00:56:38 <sparks> Cool
00:56:45 <jjmcd> It looks to find tmp/<lang>/html/index.html
00:57:13 <jjmcd> We should get David to review the spec it makes
00:57:33 <sparks> Yeah... That would be good
00:57:45 <jjmcd> In = publican directory plus a short config file, out=SRPM, RPM,
00:58:33 <sparks> Sounds good to me!
00:58:51 <jjmcd> read the pdf, altho it is kinda boring
00:59:39 <sparks> Okay... anything else?
00:59:39 <jjmcd> It does have pictures, tho
00:59:43 <jjmcd> nope
00:59:44 <sparks> Pictures?
00:59:46 <sparks> Cool
01:00:08 <sparks> Okay, anyone else?
01:00:10 <jjmcd> dot pictures, but pictures
01:00:53 <sparks> Does anyone have anything else they want to talk about?
01:01:19 <jjmcd> we put them to sleep
01:01:27 <sparks> I think so
01:01:38 <sparks> Okay, thanks for everyone coming!
01:01:41 <sparks> #endmeeting