10:45 a.m.
Hi team,
I think I comment this in the IRC, but the new docs doesn't have a "Next"
button. This will help with the flow of the reading, and also will give it
a book-ish style.
Br,
--
Eduard Lucena
Móvil: +56975687314
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Ubuntu User #8749
Fedora Ambassador Latam
10:47 a.m.
On Tue, Oct 17, 2017, at 05:45 PM, Eduard Lucena wrote:
Hi team,
I think I comment this in the IRC, but the new docs doesn't have a
"Next" button. This will help with the flow of the reading, and also
will give it a book-ish style.
The ultimate goal seems to be to move away from book
style content. I
am therefore -1 on a next button. The content is all available via the
left hand nav.
What do others think?
regards,
bex
Br,
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Eduard Lucena
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10:51 a.m.
I was thinking on that, but then the left hand nav should be either
floating or fixed (read the docs style). It's really painful to "back to
top" manually to go the next topic.
Br,
2017-10-17 12:47 GMT-03:00 Brian Exelbierd <bex(a)pobox.com>:
On Tue, Oct 17, 2017, at 05:45 PM, Eduard Lucena wrote:
Hi team,
I think I comment this in the IRC, but the new docs doesn't have a "Next"
button. This will help with the flow of the reading, and also will give it
a book-ish style.
The ultimate goal seems to be to move away from book style content. I am
therefore -1 on a next button. The content is all available via the left
hand nav.
What do others think?
regards,
bex
Br,
--
Eduard Lucena
Móvil: +56975687314 <+56%209%207568%207314>
GNU/Linux User #589060
Ubuntu User #8749
Fedora Ambassador Latam
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--
Eduard Lucena
Móvil: +56975687314
GNU/Linux User #589060
Ubuntu User #8749
Fedora Ambassador Latam
11:06 a.m.
On Tue, Oct 17, 2017, at 05:51 PM, Eduard Lucena wrote:
I was thinking on that, but then the left hand nav should be either
floating or fixed (read the docs style). It's really painful to "back
to top" manually to go the next topic.
While it is beyond my CSS skills to
make it float, I am potentially ok
with this.
If you have the CSS chops, can you submit a PR against (I am assuming)
this file and I'll build a test:
https://pagure.io/fedora-docs/docs-fp-o/blob/master/f/_templates/_nav.htm...
regards,
bex
Br,
2017-10-17 12:47 GMT-03:00 Brian Exelbierd <bex(a)pobox.com>:
> __
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 17, 2017, at 05:45 PM, Eduard Lucena wrote:
>> Hi team,
>> I think I comment this in the IRC, but the new docs doesn't have a
>> "Next" button. This will help with the flow of the reading, and also
>> will give it a book-ish style.>>
>
> The ultimate goal seems to be to move away from book style content.
> I am therefore -1 on a next button. The content is all available via
> the left hand nav.>>
> What do others think?
>
> regards,
>
> bex
>
>>
>>
>>
>> Br,
>>
>> --
>> Eduard Lucena
>> Móvil: +56975687314[1]
>> GNU/Linux User #589060
>> Ubuntu User #8749
>> Fedora Ambassador Latam
>>
>> _________________________________________________
>> docs mailing list -- docs(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>> To unsubscribe send an email to docs-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> docs mailing list -- docs(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to docs-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>
--
Eduard Lucena
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Ubuntu User #8749
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Links:
1. tel:+56%209%207568%207314
11:09 a.m.
2017-10-17 17:47 GMT+02:00 Brian Exelbierd <bex(a)pobox.com>:
On Tue, Oct 17, 2017, at 05:45 PM, Eduard Lucena wrote:
Hi team,
I think I comment this in the IRC, but the new docs doesn't have a "Next"
button. This will help with the flow of the reading, and also will give it a
book-ish style.
The ultimate goal seems to be to move away from book style content. I am
therefore -1 on a next button. The content is all available via the left
hand nav.
What do others think?
+1 on the -1. The idea is to make 'every page the first page', so that
the topics can either stand alone or be consumed as a part of a larger
narrative.
However, I would agree that it would be good to suggest where to go
next. Except, I wouldn't make it a 'next' button but a list of
'additional resources' that are related to what is being discussed on
the viewed page. Of course, this cannot be automated (at least not
with the content we have), but it would provide more value.
Robert
> regards,
>
> bex
>
>
>
> Br,
>
> --
> Eduard Lucena
11:56 a.m.
On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 06:09:12PM +0200, Robert Kratky wrote:
However, I would agree that it would be good to suggest where to go
next. Except, I wouldn't make it a 'next' button but a list of
'additional resources' that are related to what is being discussed on
the viewed page. Of course, this cannot be automated (at least not
with the content we have), but it would provide more value.
This seems right. Also, what can we do to make sure we have the
metadata so that it *could* be automated?
--
Matthew Miller
<mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org>
Fedora Project Leader
12:09 p.m.
2017-10-17 18:56 GMT+02:00 Matthew Miller <mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org>:
On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 06:09:12PM +0200, Robert Kratky wrote:
> However, I would agree that it would be good to suggest where to
go
> next. Except, I wouldn't make it a 'next' button but a list of
> 'additional resources' that are related to what is being discussed on
> the viewed page. Of course, this cannot be automated (at least not
> with the content we have), but it would provide more value.
This seems right. Also, what can we do to make sure we have the
metadata so that it *could* be automated?
The content needs to be modular and appropriately tagged. The former
is a major undertaking that requires not only time but a certain
amount of expertise as well (though we're trying to lower the
threshold).
The latter should ideally happen hand in hand with content
conversion/creation. For all other content, it is a lot of work but
not necessarily difficult. I imagine a three-day FAD with five
dedicated people could accomplish it.
Robert
12:44 p.m.
On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 07:09:32PM +0200, Robert Kratky wrote:
The latter should ideally happen hand in hand with content
conversion/creation. For all other content, it is a lot of work but
not necessarily difficult. I imagine a three-day FAD with five
dedicated people could accomplish it.
Okay. Which people, where and when? :)
--
Matthew Miller
<mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org>
Fedora Project Leader
12:49 p.m.
Count me in!
Br,
2017-10-17 14:44 GMT-03:00 Matthew Miller <mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org>:
On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 07:09:32PM +0200, Robert Kratky wrote:
> The latter should ideally happen hand in hand with content
> conversion/creation. For all other content, it is a lot of work but
> not necessarily difficult. I imagine a three-day FAD with five
> dedicated people could accomplish it.
Okay. Which people, where and when? :)
--
Matthew Miller
<mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org>
Fedora Project Leader
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--
Eduard Lucena
Móvil: +56975687314
GNU/Linux User #589060
Ubuntu User #8749
Fedora Ambassador Latam
12:49 p.m.
2017-10-17 19:44 GMT+02:00 Matthew Miller <mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org>:
On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 07:09:32PM +0200, Robert Kratky wrote:
> The latter should ideally happen hand in hand with content
> conversion/creation. For all other content, it is a lot of work but
> not necessarily difficult. I imagine a three-day FAD with five
> dedicated people could accomplish it.
Okay. Which people, where and when? :)
Well, the modularity needs to come first :-/ We're trying to think of
ways to get more people involved, but it won't be overnight. This is
the sort of work that could really use a full-time person.
As for the tagging -- when it comes to that -- I would volunteer, but
let's not get ahead of ourselves.
Robert
1:17 p.m.
On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 07:49:55PM +0200, Robert Kratky wrote:
>> The latter should ideally happen hand in hand with content
>> conversion/creation. For all other content, it is a lot of work but
>> not necessarily difficult. I imagine a three-day FAD with five
>> dedicated people could accomplish it.
> Okay. Which people, where and when? :)
Well, the modularity needs to come first :-/ We're trying to think of
ways to get more people involved, but it won't be overnight. This is
the sort of work that could really use a full-time person.
We don't have money for that, and while I'd love to get a RH req to
cover this, I don't think we will at least not in any reasonable
timeframe.
We *do*, however, have funding to get people together to work, and I
see this is as a high-value area.
--
Matthew Miller
<mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org>
Fedora Project Leader
6:27 a.m.
On 10/17/2017 07:49 PM, Robert Kratky wrote:
2017-10-17 19:44 GMT+02:00 Matthew Miller
<mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org>:
> On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 07:09:32PM +0200, Robert Kratky wrote:
>> The latter should ideally happen hand in hand with content
>> conversion/creation. For all other content, it is a lot of work but
>> not necessarily difficult. I imagine a three-day FAD with five
>> dedicated people could accomplish it.
> Okay. Which people, where and when? :)
Well, the modularity needs to come first :-/ We're trying to think of
ways to get more people involved, but it won't be overnight. This is
the sort of work that could really use a full-time person.
As for the tagging -- when it comes to that -- I would volunteer, but
let's not get ahead of ourselves.
If anyone wants to start on that, you can try to think of a list of tags
that:
* is specific enough to make the sidebar less than completely useless
(e.g. 50 pages tagged as "Installation" and nothing else would mean that
a page on the summary hub in anaconda GUI would be shown as related to
things like "how to build your own image" and "how to set up PXE boot"
-
you don't want that)
* isn't specific enough to prevent you from actually producing the
"related content" sidebar - there needs to be a lot of overlap
* contains a reasonable amount of tags - not more than, say, 20 (even
that seems like a lot), because otherwise if there are more, nobody will
remember them all and so they won't use them and the whole exercise
becomes pointless. Ideally all available tags would be visible at all
times and you'd just drag&drop or something like that from a list.
Asking people to type them out won't work
* covers every topic we need from the start (and yes, we absolutely do
need to cover everything from the start, because if you add extra tags
later, it means someone has to go and determine if the new tags apply to
any existing piece of content we already tagged before, and that's just
not going to happen)
You could also try to find a way to ensure people actually use these
tags and do that correctly every time, because once people start messing
it up, over time the whole system becomes about as useful as the example
in the first point. That goes beyond "hoping it gets caught in peer
review". Again, someone would then need to revisit existing content and
ensure all tags are correct, and again, noone's going to do that.
Really, I don't understand what's so difficult about just *linking* to
other content that's directly relevant to what the user is currently
reading. "I'm writing about how to write your own systemd service?
Surely a link that explains what the hell systemd is and a link that
talks about systemctl status/enable/disable/start/stop would be useful
here". That way *only* relevant links are displayed at all times,
because a human, not essentially a weighted random number generator,
added those specific links to those specific places there. It's a
thousand times more useful and you can do that with no additional tooling.
Now, here's something I believe would be infinitely more useful -
extracting "tags" from content:
* Use some semantic tags like [filename], [package], [service], etc.. We
still need to define these first and stick to them, though, so this
shares some problems with the manual tagging scenario above. However I
think it's much simpler to identify semantics we want to track than it
is to define something as abstract as tags, especially since DocBook
already had those semantics.
* At some point during build, something would grab a list of all these
tags (and their contents) by page
* Offer that in the sidebar. E.g. you're reading something that mentions
[filename]**/boot/grub2/grub.cfg**, here's a list of other pages that
also talk about that filename.
That still doesn't come close to direct links to directly relevant
content, but at least it doesn't require us to maintain a fragile
database of tags since everything after using the semantic tags (for
which we can provide snippets) happens automatically.
Petr
>
> Robert
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11 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
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Brian Exelbierd -
Eduard Lucena -
Eduard Lucena -
Matthew Miller -
Petr Bokoc -
Robert Kratky