moving content off of the draft wiki

[Murray McAllister]

Hi!

I think there are some great documents on /wiki/Docs/Drafts/, but
these are hard to find:

1. http://fedoraproject.org/
2. Click "Docs"
3. I might be impatient, but I can't actually find the link to the
drafts (I know it is there somewhere though)
4. phail :-)

Ubuntu:

1. http://www.ubuntu.com/
2. support -> documentation
3. Admire pretty list of documentation that desktop users and
non-Linux people probably want to know.

openSuSE:

1. http://www.opensuse.org/en/
2. Click Discover it
3. Click Documentation (lots of clutter, but I found it easy to find).
4. Nice list of links. Looks pretty
http://en.opensuse.org/Documentation rocks!

It seems the Fedora process is too formal and too hung up on having
'professional documentation', that all the useful information gets
left behind on wiki drafts where people aren't going to look. Maybe
instead of the fedora admin guide , the drafts sections could be
turned into mini howtos?

Sorry if I sound grumpy :-)

I would be happy to convert
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/Permissions
to DocBook if it could be placed somewhere other than in the drafts
section.

Cheers.

[Paul W. Frields]

On Fri, Nov 07, 2008 at 02:02:22PM +1000, Murray McAllister wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I think there are some great documents on /wiki/Docs/Drafts/, but
> these are hard to find:
> http://fedoraproject.org/
> Click "Docs"
> I might be impatient, but I can't actually find the link to the
>
> drafts (I know it is there somewhere though)
> 4. phail :-)
>
> Ubuntu:
> http://www.ubuntu.com/
> support -> documentation
> Admire pretty list of documentation that desktop users and
>
> non-Linux people probably want to know.
>
> openSuSE:
> http://www.opensuse.org/en/
> Click Discover it
> Click Documentation (lots of clutter, but I found it easy to find).
> Nice list of links. Looks pretty
>
> http://en.opensuse.org/Documentation rocks!
>
> It seems the Fedora process is too formal and too hung up on having
> 'professional documentation', that all the useful information gets
> left behind on wiki drafts where people aren't going to look. Maybe
> instead of the fedora admin guide , the drafts sections could be
> turned into mini howtos?
>
> Sorry if I sound grumpy :-)
>
> I would be happy to convert
> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/Permissions
> to DocBook if it could be placed somewhere other than in the drafts
> section.

You don't think it might have a little something to do with the fact
that both of the companies behind those distros employ full-time docs
people for their free distros?  :-)

It is, in fact, a wiki, and people can put documentation where they
want to.  If you're interested in putting up a mini-HOWTO on
permissions, whether it came from there or not, please feel free!

The idea of a larger administration guide is something our
contributors have wanted to do -- the problem being that people come
in with the idea of doing a huge guide, and when they realize it's a
LOT of work, they get overwhelmed.  Which is why we've always
encouraged people to do small documents until they get the hang of the
workload and processes that produce good docs.

Hope *I* don't sound too grumpy. ;-)

[Chris Curran]

Paul W. Frields wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 07, 2008 at 02:02:22PM +1000, Murray McAllister wrote:
> > Hi!
> >
> > I think there are some great documents on /wiki/Docs/Drafts/, but
> > these are hard to find:
> > http://fedoraproject.org/
> > Click "Docs"
> > I might be impatient, but I can't actually find the link to the
> >
> > drafts (I know it is there somewhere though)
> > 4. phail :-)
> >
> > Ubuntu:
> > http://www.ubuntu.com/
> > support -> documentation
> > Admire pretty list of documentation that desktop users and
> >
> > non-Linux people probably want to know.
> >
> > openSuSE:
> > http://www.opensuse.org/en/
> > Click Discover it
> > Click Documentation (lots of clutter, but I found it easy to find).
> > Nice list of links. Looks pretty
> >
> > http://en.opensuse.org/Documentation rocks!
> >
> > It seems the Fedora process is too formal and too hung up on having
> > 'professional documentation', that all the useful information gets
> > left behind on wiki drafts where people aren't going to look. Maybe
> > instead of the fedora admin guide , the drafts sections could be
> > turned into mini howtos?
> >
> > Sorry if I sound grumpy :-)
> >
> > I would be happy to convert
> > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/Permissions
> > to DocBook if it could be placed somewhere other than in the drafts
> > section.
>
> You don't think it might have a little something to do with the fact
> that both of the companies behind those distros employ full-time docs
> people for their free distros?  :-)
>
> It is, in fact, a wiki, and people can put documentation where they
> want to.  If you're interested in putting up a mini-HOWTO on
> permissions, whether it came from there or not, please feel free!
>
> The idea of a larger administration guide is something our
> contributors have wanted to do -- the problem being that people come
> in with the idea of doing a huge guide, and when they realize it's a
> LOT of work, they get overwhelmed.  Which is why we've always
> encouraged people to do small documents until they get the hang of the
> workload and processes that produce good docs.
>
> Hope *I* don't sound too grumpy. ;-)

I think the original posters point was that the docs are hard to find. 
All of the examples link to a vast swathe of documentation from their 
docs links. The fedora docs page looks like this: 
http://docs.fedoraproject.org/ . There is nothing there by comparison. 
There are lots of documents in the Draft document section of the wiki 
which are more than up to scratch to go there instead. Can't we just put 
all the documents there by default and then cut the docs that aren't 
good enough to a "needs work" section or something. There should be no 
reason to write a howto in the first place the docs should just be there.

The real question is there anything to be gained by the present system 
over having all our documentation available from the 
http://docs.fedoraproject.org/ link. I can't see any real reasons. Have 
a look at the ubuntu docs page (https://help.ubuntu.com/community/) 
That's a pretty comprehensive set of links. We have most of those topics 
covered in our wiki but they aren't linked from our docs page.

Chris

[Paul W. Frields]

On Fri, Nov 07, 2008 at 05:07:05PM +1000, Christopher Curran wrote:
> Paul W. Frields wrote:
> > On Fri, Nov 07, 2008 at 02:02:22PM +1000, Murray McAllister wrote:
> > > Hi!
> > >
> > > I think there are some great documents on /wiki/Docs/Drafts/, but
> > > these are hard to find:
> > > http://fedoraproject.org/
> > > Click "Docs"
> > > I might be impatient, but I can't actually find the link to the
> > >
> > > drafts (I know it is there somewhere though)
> > > 4. phail :-)
> > >
> > > Ubuntu:
> > > http://www.ubuntu.com/
> > > support -> documentation
> > > Admire pretty list of documentation that desktop users and
> > >
> > > non-Linux people probably want to know.
> > >
> > > openSuSE:
> > > http://www.opensuse.org/en/
> > > Click Discover it
> > > Click Documentation (lots of clutter, but I found it easy to find).
> > > Nice list of links. Looks pretty
> > >
> > > http://en.opensuse.org/Documentation rocks!
> > >
> > > It seems the Fedora process is too formal and too hung up on having
> > > 'professional documentation', that all the useful information gets
> > > left behind on wiki drafts where people aren't going to look. Maybe
> > > instead of the fedora admin guide , the drafts sections could be
> > > turned into mini howtos?
> > >
> > > Sorry if I sound grumpy :-)
> > >
> > > I would be happy to convert
> > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/Permissions
> > > to DocBook if it could be placed somewhere other than in the drafts
> > > section.
> >
> > You don't think it might have a little something to do with the fact
> > that both of the companies behind those distros employ full-time docs
> > people for their free distros?  :-)
> >
> > It is, in fact, a wiki, and people can put documentation where they
> > want to.  If you're interested in putting up a mini-HOWTO on
> > permissions, whether it came from there or not, please feel free!
> >
> > The idea of a larger administration guide is something our
> > contributors have wanted to do -- the problem being that people come
> > in with the idea of doing a huge guide, and when they realize it's a
> > LOT of work, they get overwhelmed.  Which is why we've always
> > encouraged people to do small documents until they get the hang of the
> > workload and processes that produce good docs.
> >
> > Hope *I* don't sound too grumpy. ;-)
>
> I think the original posters point was that the docs are hard to find.  
> All of the examples link to a vast swathe of documentation from their  
> docs links. The fedora docs page looks like this:  
> http://docs.fedoraproject.org/ . There is nothing there by comparison.  
> There are lots of documents in the Draft document section of the wiki  
> which are more than up to scratch to go there instead. Can't we just put  
> all the documents there by default and then cut the docs that aren't  
> good enough to a "needs work" section or something. There should be no  
> reason to write a howto in the first place the docs should just be there.
>
> The real question is there anything to be gained by the present system  
> over having all our documentation available from the  
> http://docs.fedoraproject.org/ link. I can't see any real reasons. Have  
> a look at the ubuntu docs page (https://help.ubuntu.com/community/)  
> That's a pretty comprehensive set of links. We have most of those topics  
> covered in our wiki but they aren't linked from our docs page.

It would be easy for anyone to revise the docs content page.  (The
appearance is a separate issue -- it's just CSS tweaking that's
necessary, and there's been a call going out on the Websites list for
help with that[1].)

If you'd like to take a shot at it, please feel free to come by
#fedora-docs on IRC Freenode and we'll be happy to get you started.

In the medium term, once F-10 is out the door we're going to look at
putting up a true CMS that will work well with our DocBook XML but
still allow user interaction in a wiki-like way.  It is Karsten's and
my jobs to get out of the way in Docs and promote more ownership by
whoever is ready to participate to make things better.

[Karsten Wade]

On Fri, Nov 07, 2008 at 05:07:05PM +1000, Christopher Curran wrote:
> I think the original posters point was that the docs are hard to
> find.

And Paul's point is that there is not a paid staff person to take
requests from this list and "make it happen, Number One."

Myself, I'm *not* going to do stuff like that right now.  There has
been too much of myself and Paul running around for years doing all
the Docs wet work instead of figuring out how to make it easier and
cleaner for others to do things.  Obviously our methods have had some
deep failure, which is one reason we are switching styles.

That's why I've been concentrating on enabling other people over doing
stuff.  Which has hurt this release and caused delays in e.g content
to Translation, because we continue to be short handed and not very
good at enabling new people to help with the workload.
> All of the examples link to a vast swathe of documentation from their  
> docs links. The fedora docs page looks like this:  
> http://docs.fedoraproject.org/ . There is nothing there by comparison.  
> There are lots of documents in the Draft document section of the wiki  
> which are more than up to scratch to go there instead. Can't we just put  
> all the documents there by default and then cut the docs that aren't good 
> enough to a "needs work" section or something. There should be no reason 
> to write a howto in the first place the docs should just be there.
>
> The real question is there anything to be gained by the present system  
> over having all our documentation available from the  
> http://docs.fedoraproject.org/ link. I can't see any real reasons. Have a 
> look at the ubuntu docs page (https://help.ubuntu.com/community/) That's a 
> pretty comprehensive set of links. We have most of those topics covered in 
> our wiki but they aren't linked from our docs page.

If you or anyone else creates a replacement for the docs.fp.org page
that links to all that content, I'll put it up straight away.  Here's
a good place to start drawing from:

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Documentation

As for the wiki, there are several smart things we can do:

1. Move pages to better names -- CamelCase fails on MediaWiki
   - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Help:Wiki_structure
   - discussion on fedora-wiki-list
   - git clone git+ssh//git.fedoraproject.org/git/wikirename.git
     - files we want to work on are:
       docsproject.psv
       docs.psv

2. Put in *every documentation page* one of these two category links

[[Category:Documentation]] -- if it is good enough to call "done
    		      	 for now"

[[Category:Draft Documentation]] -- if you want it considered a
    	    		       draft

3. Use other templates such as {{needs love}} for pages that should be
fixed so they can be worth linking from other pages

Chris -- my major concern right now is not creating more mess and
chaos.  I want to move fast with a modicum of caution.  I really don't
think we have any fundamental disagreements, and it's great that you
are coming in with a fresh eye that hates the cruft you see around
you.  Keep engaged, you'll see good changes.

- Karsten

[Karsten Wade]

On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 09:49:33PM -0800, Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 07, 2008 at 05:07:05PM +1000, Christopher Curran wrote:
> > The real question is there anything to be gained by the present system  
> > over having all our documentation available from the  
> > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/ link. I can't see any real reasons. Have a 
> > look at the ubuntu docs page (https://help.ubuntu.com/community/) That's a 
> > pretty comprehensive set of links. We have most of those topics covered in 
> > our wiki but they aren't linked from our docs page.
>
> If you or anyone else creates a replacement for the docs.fp.org page
> that links to all that content, I'll put it up straight away.  Here's
> a good place to start drawing from:

Have you made any progress on your idea?

I'm going to do some simple updates to the front page, such as
including the SELinux User Guide and deprecating some content.  If you
have any other ideas, now is the time to enact them.

Looking to stage changes to the site by Sunday 23 Nov 2359 UTC.

- Karsten

[Karsten Wade]

On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 10:51:58AM -0800, Karsten Wade wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 09:49:33PM -0800, Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote:
> > On Fri, Nov 07, 2008 at 05:07:05PM +1000, Christopher Curran wrote:
> > > The real question is there anything to be gained by the present system  
> > > over having all our documentation available from the  
> > > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/ link. I can't see any real reasons. Have a 
> > > look at the ubuntu docs page (https://help.ubuntu.com/community/) That's a 
> > > pretty comprehensive set of links. We have most of those topics covered in 
> > > our wiki but they aren't linked from our docs page.
> >
> > If you or anyone else creates a replacement for the docs.fp.org page
> > that links to all that content, I'll put it up straight away.  Here's
> > a good place to start drawing from:
>
> Have you made any progress on your idea?
>
> I'm going to do some simple updates to the front page, such as
> including the SELinux User Guide and deprecating some content.  If you
> have any other ideas, now is the time to enact them.
>
> Looking to stage changes to the site by Sunday 23 Nov 2359 UTC.

I'm still interested in doing these changes.  If anyone wants to put
together a plain text or simple HTML page that has all the documents
linked, etc., I can probably work with that.  Bonus points for
grabbing the source of the actual page via anonymous cvs and turning
in a patch.  Or just grab the index.php file itself and work with
that. :)

export CVS_RSH=ssh
export CVSROOT=:pserver:[e-mail]:/cvs/fedora/web
cvs -z3 login    # press Enter for the password
cvs -z3 co web   # sorry, it's 357 MiB

http://quaid.fedorapeople.org/drop/docs-index.php

- Karsten

[Murray McAllister]

On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 3:37 PM, Paul W. Frields  wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 07, 2008 at 02:02:22PM +1000, Murray McAllister wrote:
> > Hi!
>
> It is, in fact, a wiki, and people can put documentation where they
> want to.  If you're interested in putting up a mini-HOWTO on
> permissions, whether it came from there or not, please feel free!

"git clone git://fedorapeople.org/~mdious/permissions/Permissions.git"

Can someone please set up a place in git or cvs to store this? It is a
bit messy at the moment, but it is all converted...

Cheers.

[Murray McAllister]

On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 4:30 PM, Murray McAllister
 wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 3:37 PM, Paul W. Frields  wrote:
> > On Fri, Nov 07, 2008 at 02:02:22PM +1000, Murray McAllister wrote:
> > > Hi!
> >
> > It is, in fact, a wiki, and people can put documentation where they
> > want to.  If you're interested in putting up a mini-HOWTO on
> > permissions, whether it came from there or not, please feel free!
>
> "git clone git://fedorapeople.org/~mdious/permissions/Permissions.git"
>
> Can someone please set up a place in git or cvs to store this? It is a
> bit messy at the moment, but it is all converted...
>
> Cheers.

Let me know if you need this to build with your current tools.

[Paul W. Frields]

On Sun, Nov 09, 2008 at 09:05:49AM +1000, Murray McAllister wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 4:30 PM, Murray McAllister
>  wrote:
> > On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 3:37 PM, Paul W. Frields  wrote:
> > > On Fri, Nov 07, 2008 at 02:02:22PM +1000, Murray McAllister wrote:
> > > > Hi!
> > >
> > > It is, in fact, a wiki, and people can put documentation where they
> > > want to.  If you're interested in putting up a mini-HOWTO on
> > > permissions, whether it came from there or not, please feel free!
> >
> > "git clone git://fedorapeople.org/~mdious/permissions/Permissions.git"
> >
> > Can someone please set up a place in git or cvs to store this? It is a
> > bit messy at the moment, but it is all converted...
> >
> > Cheers.
>
> Let me know if you need this to build with your current tools.

Cool!  You can get a git (or any other SCM) repository by going to
http://fedorahosted.org and requesting one.  The full instructions are
on the "New Project" link on the navigation menu there.

As we move toward having more toolsets available, we should have a
publishing scheme that works with all of them.  I haven't tried the
current web publishing instructions against Publican-built
documentation.  This seems like an opportunity for some interested
contributor to try out the instructions and see what works (and what
doesn't):

http://docs.fedoraproject.org/documentation-guide/en_US/ch-publishing.html

[Murray McAllister]

On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 4:31 AM, Paul W. Frields  wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 09, 2008 at 09:05:49AM +1000, Murray McAllister wrote:
> > On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 4:30 PM, Murray McAllister
> >  wrote:
> > > On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 3:37 PM, Paul W. Frields  wrote:
> > > > On Fri, Nov 07, 2008 at 02:02:22PM +1000, Murray McAllister wrote:
> > > > > Hi!
> > > >
> > > > It is, in fact, a wiki, and people can put documentation where they
> > > > want to.  If you're interested in putting up a mini-HOWTO on
> > > > permissions, whether it came from there or not, please feel free!
> > >
> > > "git clone git://fedorapeople.org/~mdious/permissions/Permissions.git"
> > >
> > > Can someone please set up a place in git or cvs to store this? It is a
> > > bit messy at the moment, but it is all converted...
> > >
> > > Cheers.
> >
> > Let me know if you need this to build with your current tools.
>
> Cool!  You can get a git (or any other SCM) repository by going to
> http://fedorahosted.org and requesting one.  The full instructions are
> on the "New Project" link on the navigation menu there.

It's very small once converted. Is a hosted project required for a repo?
> As we move toward having more toolsets available, we should have a
> publishing scheme that works with all of them.  I haven't tried the

I started to get this working with the fedora docs toolchain but never
got it finished.
> current web publishing instructions against Publican-built
> documentation.  This seems like an opportunity for some interested
> contributor to try out the instructions and see what works (and what
> doesn't):

I would LOVE to try!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> http://docs.fedoraproject.org/documentation-guide/en_US/ch-publishing.html

[Murray McAllister]

On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 6:46 AM, Murray McAllister
 wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 4:31 AM, Paul W. Frields  wrote:
> > On Sun, Nov 09, 2008 at 09:05:49AM +1000, Murray McAllister wrote:
> > > On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 4:30 PM, Murray McAllister
> > >  wrote:
> > > > On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 3:37 PM, Paul W. Frields  wrote:
> > > > > On Fri, Nov 07, 2008 at 02:02:22PM +1000, Murray McAllister wrote:
> > > > > > Hi!
> > > > >
> > > > > It is, in fact, a wiki, and people can put documentation where they
> > > > > want to.  If you're interested in putting up a mini-HOWTO on
> > > > > permissions, whether it came from there or not, please feel free!
> > > >
> > > > "git clone git://fedorapeople.org/~mdious/permissions/Permissions.git"
> > > >
> > > > Can someone please set up a place in git or cvs to store this? It is a
> > > > bit messy at the moment, but it is all converted...
> > > >
> > > > Cheers.
> > >
> > > Let me know if you need this to build with your current tools.
> >
> > Cool!  You can get a git (or any other SCM) repository by going to
> > http://fedorahosted.org and requesting one.  The full instructions are
> > on the "New Project" link on the navigation menu there.
>
> It's very small once converted. Is a hosted project required for a repo?
> > As we move toward having more toolsets available, we should have a
> > publishing scheme that works with all of them.  I haven't tried the
>
> I started to get this working with the fedora docs toolchain but never
> got it finished.
> > current web publishing instructions against Publican-built
> > documentation.  This seems like an opportunity for some interested
> > contributor to try out the instructions and see what works (and what
> > doesn't):
>
> I would LOVE to try!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/documentation-guide/en_US/ch-publishing.html

WOW!

I have not looked through the entire document, but at first glance, it
works (and still looks the same as if I built locally) with
publican-created documents. w00t!

http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/funny-pictures-little-rabbit-bounces-up-and-down1.jpg

[Murray McAllister]

On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 8:15 AM, Murray McAllister
 wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 6:46 AM, Murray McAllister
>  wrote:
> > On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 4:31 AM, Paul W. Frields  wrote:
> > > On Sun, Nov 09, 2008 at 09:05:49AM +1000, Murray McAllister wrote:
> > > > On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 4:30 PM, Murray McAllister
> > > >  wrote:
> > > > > On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 3:37 PM, Paul W. Frields  wrote:
> > > > > > On Fri, Nov 07, 2008 at 02:02:22PM +1000, Murray McAllister wrote:
> > > > > > > Hi!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It is, in fact, a wiki, and people can put documentation where they
> > > > > > want to.  If you're interested in putting up a mini-HOWTO on
> > > > > > permissions, whether it came from there or not, please feel free!
> > > > >
> > > > > "git clone git://fedorapeople.org/~mdious/permissions/Permissions.git"
> > > > >
> > > > > Can someone please set up a place in git or cvs to store this? It is a
> > > > > bit messy at the moment, but it is all converted...
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers.
> > > >
> > > > Let me know if you need this to build with your current tools.
> > >
> > > Cool!  You can get a git (or any other SCM) repository by going to
> > > http://fedorahosted.org and requesting one.  The full instructions are
> > > on the "New Project" link on the navigation menu there.
> >
> > It's very small once converted. Is a hosted project required for a repo?
> > > As we move toward having more toolsets available, we should have a
> > > publishing scheme that works with all of them.  I haven't tried the
> >
> > I started to get this working with the fedora docs toolchain but never
> > got it finished.
> > > current web publishing instructions against Publican-built
> > > documentation.  This seems like an opportunity for some interested
> > > contributor to try out the instructions and see what works (and what
> > > doesn't):
> >
> > I would LOVE to try!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> > > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/documentation-guide/en_US/ch-publishing.html
>
> WOW!
>
> I have not looked through the entire document, but at first glance, it
> works (and still looks the same as if I built locally) with
> publican-created documents. w00t!
>
> http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/funny-pictures-little-rabbit-bounces-up-and-down1.jpg

the converted html to php does not work in F9...so I will try
uploading .html when I get access.

[Paul W. Frields]

On Mon, 2008-11-10 at 11:21 +1000, Murray McAllister wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 8:15 AM, Murray McAllister
>  wrote:
> > On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 6:46 AM, Murray McAllister
> >  wrote:
> > > On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 4:31 AM, Paul W. Frields  wrote:
> > > > On Sun, Nov 09, 2008 at 09:05:49AM +1000, Murray McAllister wrote:
> > > > > On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 4:30 PM, Murray McAllister
> > > > >  wrote:
> > > > > > On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 3:37 PM, Paul W. Frields  wrote:
> > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 07, 2008 at 02:02:22PM +1000, Murray McAllister wrote:
> > > > > > >> Hi!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It is, in fact, a wiki, and people can put documentation where they
> > > > > > > want to.  If you're interested in putting up a mini-HOWTO on
> > > > > > > permissions, whether it came from there or not, please feel free!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "git clone git://fedorapeople.org/~mdious/permissions/Permissions.git"
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Can someone please set up a place in git or cvs to store this? It is a
> > > > > > bit messy at the moment, but it is all converted...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cheers.
> > > > >
> > > > > Let me know if you need this to build with your current tools.
> > > >
> > > > Cool!  You can get a git (or any other SCM) repository by going to
> > > > http://fedorahosted.org and requesting one.  The full instructions are
> > > > on the "New Project" link on the navigation menu there.
> > >
> > > It's very small once converted. Is a hosted project required for a repo?
> > > > As we move toward having more toolsets available, we should have a
> > > > publishing scheme that works with all of them.  I haven't tried the
> > >
> > > I started to get this working with the fedora docs toolchain but never
> > > got it finished.
> > > > current web publishing instructions against Publican-built
> > > > documentation.  This seems like an opportunity for some interested
> > > > contributor to try out the instructions and see what works (and what
> > > > doesn't):
> > >
> > > I would LOVE to try!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> > > > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/documentation-guide/en_US/ch-publishing.html
> >
> > WOW!
> >
> > I have not looked through the entire document, but at first glance, it
> > works (and still looks the same as if I built locally) with
> > publican-created documents. w00t!
> >
> > http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/funny-pictures-little-rabbit-bounces-up-and-down1.jpg
>
> the converted html to php does not work in F9...so I will try
> uploading .html when I get access.

Before you upload anything to the actual docs.fp.o web server, make sure
you try it on your local sandbox first.  The full instructions for
making a local sandbox using Apache are found in the publishing chapter
above.

[Murray McAllister]

> Before you upload anything to the actual docs.fp.o web server, make sure
> you try it on your local sandbox first.  The full instructions for
> making a local sandbox using Apache are found in the publishing chapter
> above.

Yes, but my local sandbox won't have the same versions of php that you
have on your site...it works on some of my local sandboxes, but not
others ;)

It seems I can use .html files, so I'll go with that.

Cheers ^_^

http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/funny-pictures-cat-is-not-coming-out-until-monday-is-gone.jpg

[Valent Turkovic]

On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 5:02 AM, Murray McAllister
 wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I think there are some great documents on /wiki/Docs/Drafts/, but
> these are hard to find:
> http://fedoraproject.org/
> Click "Docs"
> I might be impatient, but I can't actually find the link to the
>
> drafts (I know it is there somewhere though)
> 4. phail :-)
>
> Ubuntu:
> http://www.ubuntu.com/
> support -> documentation
> Admire pretty list of documentation that desktop users and
>
> non-Linux people probably want to know.
>
> openSuSE:
> http://www.opensuse.org/en/
> Click Discover it
> Click Documentation (lots of clutter, but I found it easy to find).
> Nice list of links. Looks pretty
>
> http://en.opensuse.org/Documentation rocks!
>
> It seems the Fedora process is too formal and too hung up on having
> 'professional documentation', that all the useful information gets
> left behind on wiki drafts where people aren't going to look. Maybe
> instead of the fedora admin guide , the drafts sections could be
> turned into mini howtos?
>
> Sorry if I sound grumpy :-)
>
> I would be happy to convert
> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/Permissions
> to DocBook if it could be placed somewhere other than in the drafts
> section.
>
> Cheers.

I agree with you.

If somebody would be kind enough to put some instructions on where to
move pages from drafts page and maybe even create a "Guides" category
that would be on the mail fedora page I would put my time and efforts
info cleaning up drafts - putting some final finish on them.

For example look at this page:
https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=GPS_over_bluetooth_HowTo

How does this page look from technical and aesthetic aspects?

Cheers.