[Issue 79878] OO.o can not select modern font faces conveniently
by nmailhot＠openoffice.org
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http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=79878
------- Additional comments from nmailhot(a)openoffice.org Fri Mar 7 18:55:56 +0000 2008 -------
@hdu: since font families are getting more complex, but the face number is still
somewhat limited, a short-term solution would indeed be to drop all the face
filtering OO.o does and drop the face list as reported by the system in the
Format->Character dialog.
Then you only need to agree on the sorting of this raw face list. A good
strategy would IMHO to sort faces by stretch, then weight, then slant, then name
(if the previous 3 parameters are not sufficient)
For a reasonably complex and common font family such as Dejavu Sans, you'd get
the following face list:
Condensed
Condensed Oblique
Condensed Bold
Condensed Bold Oblique
Extralight
Book
Oblique
Bold
Bold Oblique
with nice normal/italic/bold/bold-italic clusters as expected by users.
Of course mid-term face number may grow enough using an unique face list may not
be sufficient
The Microsoft paper http://blogs.msdn.com/text/attachment/2249036.ashx proposes
filtering strategies if you do not want to expose raw font family/faces in the
dialog but want to rework what the fonts report.
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16 years, 2 months
[Issue 79878] OO.o can not select modern font faces conveniently
by hdu＠openoffice.org
To comment on the following update, log in, then open the issue:
http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=79878
------- Additional comments from hdu(a)openoffice.org Fri Mar 7 15:33:01 +0000 2008 -------
There currently is only one way to choose any of the available font styles: select the style field in the
Format->Character dialog.
Unfortunately even this method fails as the code for the Format->Character dialog seems to be written
with the assumption that there are only bold and italic can be switched on or off. The code for this
dialog (svx/source/dialog/chardlg.cxx) also does some wild translation/tunneling of the font styles
(into "posture items") whereas a more naive approach (to manage the styles by keeping the style names
as they were provided by VCL) would have been more successful...
@mba: I suggest to first fix/extend the Format->Character dialog and adjust the users of this dialogs
resulting posture items to handle arbitrary styles. When this is done I suggest to extend the UI so that
selecting different styles is more intuitive than starting the dialog.
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16 years, 2 months
[Issue 79878] OO.o can not select modern font faces conveniently
by mba＠openoffice.org
To comment on the following update, log in, then open the issue:
http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=79878
------- Additional comments from mba(a)openoffice.org Fri Mar 7 14:52:12 +0000 2008 -------
Philipp, Herbert, could you please comment on how we shall move forward with
this issue? It seems that at least no one denied that we have a problem here.
If we needed new interfaces, UI etc. I think it's time to decide whether we want
to do that and in which time frame. If something needs to be evaluated, planned,
decided etc. we should find out who is able to do that. I feel a little bit lost
here as font handling is not my area of expertise so I would really appreciate
if we could find a suitable owner for this issue.
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16 years, 2 months
[Bug 3512] Implement font-stretch property
by Bugzilla＠Mozilla
Do not reply to this email. You can add comments to this bug at
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3512
--- Comment #36 from Nicolas Mailhot <Nicolas.Mailhot(a)laPoste.net> 2008-03-07 05:25:42 PST ---
I'm going to try to reword and summarise the problem there.
1. When software was young fonts were sparse and their format limitative. One
typically had different font files and names per encoding and variant of the
same font, and all those files exposed different font family names.
Applications manipulating formatted text just had to expose a raw font family
list to users, and make minimal effort to regroup the most frequent
variants/faces (regular, bold, bold italic, italic) together. Font users
browsed the raw font name list and selected the right font file directly.
Everyone knew the Microsoft font list (for example, use Aral Black for an heavy
font, use Arial Narrow for a condensed one).
2. Strong demand from artists led to creation of more complex fonts and font
formats. Modern fonts are no longer limited encoding-wise, faces are no longer
limited to regular, bold, bold italic, italic, and more critically they're no
longer exposed under different font names. All the faces declare the same font
name, and software is expected to provide users ways to select the face they
want.
3. Those complex fonts were at first limited to expensive font collections, but
are now being commodized
4. After the success of its "core fonts for the web" initiative Microsoft
decided to use its new fonts as a commercial argument. So they're no longer
freely distributed, and alternatives to Windows, IE and Office need to propose
their own font offerings. Since font names are protected, that means exposing
users to new font lists, where the workarounds they learnt in 1. no longer
apply.
It is therefore becoming critical to revamp the font selection mechanisms of
FLOSS apps so :
1. they can expose to users all the faces of the complex fonts which are now
getting widely distributed
2. they can help them use non-Microsoft font libraries, so they don't run back
to Microsoft products just because they can't manage anything but the
commercial fonts it bundles with its offerings
Fortunately the technical analysis has already been done as part of W3C
OpenType and probably other specifications. Selecting the right face inside a
font family depends on three parameters:
1. font slant (font-style, FontStyle): normal, italic, oblique...
2. font weight (font-weight, FontWeight): normal, bold, light...
3. font stretch (font-stretch, FontStretch): normal, condensed, expanded...
This classification is adopted by every major actor:
http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-fonts/#font-styling (Web)
http://blogs.msdn.com/text/attachment/2249036.ashx (Windows)
http://fontconfig.org/fontconfig-user.html (Unix/Linux)
Firefox is not implementing the third CSS axis right now. That means it can not
browse the full font universe, and effectively pushes its users to use fonts
distributed on the Windows platform at a time font family games were the only
way to expose stretch. This kind of indirect dependency on an editor which has
no love lost for Firefox is not good for Firefox users, not good for the Free
web the Mozilla foundation wants to promote, and therefore not good for Firefox
itself.
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16 years, 2 months
[Bug 421317] Thunderbird's default-font options shows only one member of the font family
by Bugzilla＠Mozilla
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https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=421317
--- Comment #2 from Nicolas Mailhot <Nicolas.Mailhot(a)laPoste.net> 2008-03-07 05:15:24 PST ---
I'm going to try to reword and summarise the problem in this comment.
1. When software was young fonts were sparse and their format limitative. One
typically had different font files and names per encoding and variant of the
same font, and all those files exposed different font family names.
Applications
manipulating formatted text just had to expose a raw font family list to users,
and make minimal effort to regroup the most frequent variants/faces (regular,
bold, bold italic, italic) together. Font users browsed the raw font name list
and selected the right font file directly. Everyone knew the Microsoft font
list
(for example, use Aral Black for an heavy font, use Arial Narrow for a
condensed
one).
2. Strong demand from artists led to creation of more complex fonts and font
formats. Modern fonts are no longer limited encoding-wise, faces are no longer
limited to regular, bold, bold italic, italic, and more critically they're no
longer exposed under different font names. All the faces declare the same font
name, and software is expected to provide users ways to select the face they
want.
3. Those complex fonts were at first limited to expensive font collections, but
are now being commodized (indeed OO.o now ships DejaVu, which is a complex
font)
4. After the success of its "core fonts for the web" initiative Microsoft
decided to use its new fonts as a commercial argument. So they're no longer
freely distributed, and alternatives to Windows, IE and Office need to propose
their own font offering. Since font names are protected, that means exposing
users to new font lists, where the workarounds they learnt in 1. no longer
apply.
It is therefore becoming critical to revamp the font selection UI so :
1. it can expose to users all the faces of the complex fonts which are now
getting widely distributed
2. it can help them browse non-Microsoft font libraries, so they don't run back
to Microsoft products just because they can't manage anything but the
commercial
fonts it bundles with its offerings
Fortunately the technical analysis has already been done as part of W3C
OpenType
and probably other specifications. Selecting the right face inside a font
family
depends on three parameters:
1. font slant (font-style, FontStyle): normal, italic, oblique...
2. font weight (font-weight, FontWeight): normal, bold, light...
3. font stretch (font-stretch, FontStretch): normal, condensed, expanded...
This classification is adopted by every major actor:
http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-fonts/#font-styling (Web)
http://blogs.msdn.com/text/attachment/2249036.ashx (Windows)
http://fontconfig.org/fontconfig-user.html (Unix/Linux)
A reasonably universal and future-proof UI would therefore replace the current
font selection methods of
1. font family list
by
2. font family + weight + stretch list selector or
3. font family list + weight list + stretch list selector (ie treat weight &
stretch as selection axes like is already done for size)
Since for all practical means fonts do not support italic and oblique at the
same time yet.
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16 years, 2 months
[Bug 3512] Implement font-stretch property
by Bugzilla＠Mozilla
Do not reply to this email. You can add comments to this bug at
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3512
--- Comment #35 from Felix Miata <mrmazda(a)ij.net> 2008-03-06 10:32:04 PST ---
(In reply to comment #33)
> (In reply to comment #32)
> > If web authors could specify it in a font-family
> > list and Firefox would respect that request,
> Even if it did appear that would not make it selectable in CSS by web authors.
> Because the font family is not "Nimbus Sans L Condensed" but "Nimbus Sans L",
> with the "Condensed" variant, so the font family selector won't work.
Nimbus Sans L Condensed is a valid family name, and so can be specified and
served by Gecko. It's just not present on most Linux systems like the condensed
variant of Nimbus Sans L is. See e.g.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=367188
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16 years, 2 months
