3:16 p.m.
Upgrading an E-series Thinkpad, a year or two old, running Fedora
31, via CLI, the upgrade kept failing with complaints about i.686 -- till
I did "dnf remove mate-*.i.686" -- then it completed, or seemed to. This
machine was behind an HDMI KVM switch, and was giving a display spread
across both its own monitor and my regular one, with four panels on each.
Since the upgrade reboot, when I KVM to the Thinkpad, I see blank
flashing panels on each monitor. There is no terminal emulator anywhere.
I've tried a couple times to reboot it to rescue mode, but it ignores
that.
I took it out from behind the KVM switch, but that didn't help.
I can get to the line at the beginning of the boot process which
is supposed to make it boot into rescue mode, but that has no effect.
Do I go looking for a live distro that may let me mount the Thpd's
hard drive and try to fix the panels somehow?
Do I just call it a total loss and install F 32 from a freshly
downloaded iso on a thumb drive?
Is there a third way?
--
Beartooth Staffwright, Not Quite Clueless Linux Power User
I have precious (very precious) little idea where up is.
4:03 p.m.
On 5/1/20 1:16 PM, Beartooth wrote:
Since the upgrade reboot, when I KVM to the Thinkpad, I see blank
flashing panels on each monitor. There is no terminal emulator anywhere.
I've tried a couple times to reboot it to rescue mode, but it ignores
that.
What graphics device do you have?
I can get to the line at the beginning of the boot process which
is supposed to make it boot into rescue mode, but that has no effect.
There is no "rescue mode" in the boot menu. That entry is for an initrd
that has all the kernel drivers, not just the ones for that specific
machine. For a real rescue mode, you need to use one of the net install
iso images.
One option is to add "3" at the end of the kernel command line and if
that doesn't work, then try "single". The first one should get a full
running system with not graphics and the second one should be a minimal
boot. Either way, you should be able to access the previous logs and
find out what's happening.
Do I go looking for a live distro that may let me mount the
Thpd's
hard drive and try to fix the panels somehow?
Do I just call it a total loss and install F 32 from a freshly
downloaded iso on a thumb drive?
Those are related. You can put a Fedora live image on a thumb drive and
boot it and if necessary do the re-install from it as well.
12:30 p.m.
On Fri, 01 May 2020 14:03:10 -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote:
On 5/1/20 1:16 PM, Beartooth wrote:
> Since the upgrade reboot, when I KVM to the Thinkpad, I see blank
> flashing panels on each monitor. There is no terminal emulator
> anywhere.
> I've tried a couple times to reboot it to rescue mode, but it ignores
> that.
What graphics device do you have?
Besides the Thpd's own monitor, I was connecting it through a
TESmart 4-port HDMI KVM switch to my main monitor, an old 23" Dell flat
panel whose model if any must be well-hidden.
> I can get to the line at the beginning of the boot process
which
> is supposed to make it boot into rescue mode, but that has no effect.
There is no "rescue mode" in the boot menu. That entry is for an initrd
that has all the kernel drivers, not just the ones for that specific
machine. For a real rescue mode, you need to use one of the net install
iso images.
One option is to add "3" at the end of the kernel command line and if
that doesn't work, then try "single". The first one should get a full
running system with not graphics and the second one should be a minimal
boot. Either way, you should be able to access the previous logs and
find out what's happening.
Adding 3 worked, whereupon, dammitall, I forgot to look for logs,
and of course messed up some more.
[....]
> Do I just call it a total loss and install F 32 from a freshly
> downloaded iso on a thumb drive?
Those are related. You can put a Fedora live image on a thumb drive and
boot it and if necessary do the re-install from it as well.
I'll go find a thumb drive -- with apologies for my clumsiness.
Thank you!
--
Beartooth Staffwright, Not Quite Clueless Power User
Remember I know little (precious little!) of where up is.
3:04 p.m.
On 5/2/20 10:30 AM, Beartooth wrote:
On Fri, 01 May 2020 14:03:10 -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote:
> On 5/1/20 1:16 PM, Beartooth wrote:
>> Since the upgrade reboot, when I KVM to the Thinkpad, I see blank
>> flashing panels on each monitor. There is no terminal emulator
>> anywhere.
>> I've tried a couple times to reboot it to rescue mode, but it ignores
>> that.
>
> What graphics device do you have?
Besides the Thpd's own monitor, I was connecting it through a
TESmart 4-port HDMI KVM switch to my main monitor, an old 23" Dell flat
panel whose model if any must be well-hidden.
For future reference, the question about graphics device is about the
graphics chipset: Intel, AMD, or NVidia and possibly the model if known.
The info about the KVM could also be useful in a case like this, but
you had already mentioned that.
6:06 p.m.
On 2020-05-02 04:16, Beartooth wrote:
Upgrading an E-series Thinkpad, a year or two old, running Fedora
31, via CLI, the upgrade kept failing with complaints about i.686 -- till
I did "dnf remove mate-*.i.686" -- then it completed, or seemed to. This
machine was behind an HDMI KVM switch, and was giving a display spread
across both its own monitor and my regular one, with four panels on each.
It may be helpful to see the details of the dnf transaction.Â
dnf history commands will show that.
--
The key to getting good answers is to ask good questions.
4:08 p.m.
On Fri, 01 May 2020 20:16:29 +0000, I Beartooth wrote:
[....]
Do I go looking for a live distro that may let me mount the Thpd's
hard drive and try to fix the panels somehow?
Do I just call it a total loss and install F 32 from a freshly
downloaded iso on a thumb drive?
I downloaded Fedora Mate Live 32 -- and could neither remember
nor find the name of Fedora's thumb drive software. So I burned an old-
fashioned DVD. And I now have the Thinkpad back behind the KVM switch and
booted from the DVD. So I can read this list and input to the Thpd.
The first thing I don't know is how to get the live OS to mount
the hard drive. I'll try fiddling -- tomorrow, May 3. For now I'm
offline. Thanks for your help!
--
Beartooth Staffwright, Not Quite Clueless Power User
Remember I know little (precious little!) of where up is.
--
4:24 p.m.
On 5/2/20 2:08 PM, Beartooth wrote:
I downloaded Fedora Mate Live 32 -- and could neither remember
nor find the name of Fedora's thumb drive software. So I burned an old-
fashioned DVD. And I now have the Thinkpad back behind the KVM switch and
booted from the DVD. So I can read this list and input to the Thpd.
The first thing I don't know is how to get the live OS to mount
the hard drive. I'll try fiddling -- tomorrow, May 3. For now I'm
offline. Thanks for your help!
I'm not familiar with Mate, but try opening the file browser. At least
on Gnome, the available partitions are listed in the list on the left
and you can click to mount them. The other option is to open a terminal
and manually mount the partitions.
Are you trying to fix the installed system, backup data, or re-install?
12:49 p.m.
On Sat, 02 May 2020 14:24:41 -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote:
I'm not familiar with Mate, but try opening the file browser. At
least
on Gnome, the available partitions are listed in the list on the left
and you can click to mount them.
Bingo! I see two choices that are way too big to be on the DVD.
Caja can open both. Is there a canonical way to get to the panels, better
than trial and error? If I can locate and them, via GUI or via CLI, maybe
it'll be apparent to me or to someone here what is wrong and how to fix
them.
The other option is to open a terminal
and manually mount the partitions.
Hoo, boy! I can't remember the last time I touched a partition.
Are you trying to fix the installed system, backup data, or
re-install?
I'd prefer to fix, and keep what data are on it, particularly the
panels; but if that's a big job, or beyond my ability, I'm willing to re-
install, restore, and tweak. There is nothing crucial on this machine,
only stuff I'd like to take along if I ever do take it anywhere.
IF (big if) there is likely to be anything interesting in its own
right to you or anyone on the team, I'm willing to be walked through
whatever it takes; I owe Fedora and all its people big time.
--
Beartooth Staffwright, Not Quite Clueless Power User
Remember I know little (precious little!) of where up is.
4:41 p.m.
On 5/3/20 10:49 AM, Beartooth wrote:
On Sat, 02 May 2020 14:24:41 -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote:
> I'm not familiar with Mate, but try opening the file browser. At least
> on Gnome, the available partitions are listed in the list on the left
> and you can click to mount them.
Bingo! I see two choices that are way too big to be on the DVD.
Caja can open both. Is there a canonical way to get to the panels, better
than trial and error? If I can locate and them, via GUI or via CLI, maybe
it'll be apparent to me or to someone here what is wrong and how to fix
them.
I'm not sure what you mean by "the panels". Figure out which entry is
the root partition. I'm going to assume it's called root and that
you're running as a user called "liveuser". If that's wrong, then
you'll need to adjust the following commands accordingly. Open a
terminal and cd to "/run/media/liveuser/root". Run "sudo chroot ."
Then try running "journalctl -b-1" and see if you can find an error or
some reason that your graphical interface isn't loading.
I'm a little concerned about what you think you messed up when running
in non-graphical mode earlier. Does using "3" not boot you to a login
prompt now?
12:44 p.m.
On Sun, 03 May 2020 14:41:40 -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote:
On 5/3/20 10:49 AM, Beartooth wrote:
> On Sat, 02 May 2020 14:24:41 -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote:
>
>> I'm not familiar with Mate, but try opening the file browser. At
>> least on Gnome, the available partitions are listed in the list on the
>> left and you can click to mount them.
>
> Bingo! I see two choices that are way too big to be on the DVD.
> Caja can open both. Is there a canonical way to get to the panels,
> better than trial and error? If I can locate and them, via GUI or via
> CLI, maybe it'll be apparent to me or to someone here what is wrong and
> how to fix them.
I'm not sure what you mean by "the panels".
Remember that Mate resembles Gnome2; my old man's memory is way
full of languages, and seldom recalls commands unless I use them very
often, like "dnf upgrade." But my spatial memory remains usable.
So the first thing I do on any install is to put panels top,
bottom, and both sides; and populate them with a fixed arrangement of
icons in fixed places.
When I tried to follow the usual CLI upgrade, I got failures
because of the presence of i.686. I did "dnf remove mate-*.i.686" --
then it completed, or seemed to; but after the upgrade reboot, when I
KVM'd to the Thinkpad, I saw only blank flashing panels on each monitor.
There was no terminal emulator anywhere.
So I created an F 32 Mate live medium on another machine, and
managed to boot from that. As I see it, I can just install F 32 from live
medium; or I can get into the hard drive, find a/o figure out (with a lot
of help) what is wrong, fix it, and keep both my data and my arrangement
of panels and icons, which is fairly tedious (but safe) to set up from
scratch.
Figure out which entry is
the root partition. I'm going to assume it's called root and that
you're running as a user called "liveuser". If that's wrong, then
you'll need to adjust the following commands accordingly. Open a
terminal and cd to "/run/media/liveuser/root". Run "sudo chroot."
That gets "No such file or directory." I tried removing "/root"
from it, and tried "chroot." I got "missing operand."
My machines have always been physically secure; so I've never
learned sudo. I tried "su - " and became root.
Then try running "journalctl -b-1" and see if you can find
an error or
some reason that your graphical interface isn't loading.
Both with that, and with a space between "b" and "-1", I got (in
bold) "Data from the specified boot (-1) is not available: No such boot
ID in journal"
I'm a little concerned about what you think you messed up when
running
in non-graphical mode earlier. Does using "3" not boot you to a login
prompt now?
Yes, it does. I must have said something badly.
--
Beartooth Staffwright, Not Quite Clueless Power User
Remember I know little (precious little!) of where up is.
1:10 p.m.
On 5/4/20 10:44 AM, Beartooth wrote:
On Sun, 03 May 2020 14:41:40 -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote:
> I'm not sure what you mean by "the panels".
So I created an F 32 Mate live medium on another machine, and
managed to boot from that. As I see it, I can just install F 32 from live
medium; or I can get into the hard drive, find a/o figure out (with a lot
of help) what is wrong, fix it, and keep both my data and my arrangement
of panels and icons, which is fairly tedious (but safe) to set up from
scratch.
A reinstall will keep your home data, so all your files and settings
should still be intact after.
> Figure out which entry is
> the root partition. I'm going to assume it's called root and that
> you're running as a user called "liveuser". If that's wrong, then
> you'll need to adjust the following commands accordingly. Open a
> terminal and cd to "/run/media/liveuser/root". Run "sudo
chroot."
That gets "No such file or directory." I tried removing "/root"
from it, and tried "chroot." I got "missing operand."
Did you open the partition in the file browser first? It wouldn't have
helped without having the partition mounted, but I did also make a
mistake in that command. I missed the space, it should have been "chroot ."
> Then try running "journalctl -b-1" and see if you can
find an error or
> some reason that your graphical interface isn't loading.
Both with that, and with a space between "b" and "-1", I got (in
bold) "Data from the specified boot (-1) is not available: No such boot
ID in journal"
That's because you're running that command on the live boot which won't
have any previous logs.
> I'm a little concerned about what you think you messed up
when running
> in non-graphical mode earlier. Does using "3" not boot you to a login
> prompt now?
Yes, it does. I must have said something badly.
Then let's skip the whole live boot thing and do it the easy way. :-)
Can you explain what you meant by "blank flashing panels"? It's quite
likely that we've been trying to solve the wrong problem. Do you get a
login screen? Can you login? If not, then does CTRL-ALT-F3 get you a
login prompt?
3:20 p.m.
On Mon, 04 May 2020 11:10:06 -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote:
Then let's skip the whole live boot thing and do it the easy way.
:-)
I shut it down, removed the live medium, and let it boot F 31.
Can you explain what you meant by "blank flashing panels"?
This didn't happen this time, praise whatever gods there be!
For the record, I saw two panels, devoid of icons, flashing fast
and brightly, one on each side of the display.
It's quite likely that we've been trying to solve the wrong
problem.
Do you get a login screen?
Yes. I opened a terminal which gave me this prompt:
[beartooth@localhost-live ~]$
Can you login?
Yes, with a lot of little boxes complaining about various applets
and offering to remove them. I told it not to. Then I did su - and it
took my regular root password.
So I opened Firefox to the Fedoramagazine page for upgrading by
CLI, and started copying & pasting as usual. It got as far as trying to
download F 32.
Then I got "Problem: The operation would result in removing the
following protected packages: sudo, systemd, systemd-udev (try to add --
skip-broken' to skip uninstallable packages)
So I added it, and got the identical problem message again. And
there it sits; but at least this time it's a different problem.
--
Beartooth Staffwright, Not Quite Clueless Power User
Remember I know little (precious little!) of where up is.
3:31 p.m.
On 5/4/20 1:20 PM, Beartooth wrote:
On Mon, 04 May 2020 11:10:06 -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote:
> Can you explain what you meant by "blank flashing panels"?
This didn't happen this time, praise whatever gods there be!
For the record, I saw two panels, devoid of icons, flashing fast
and brightly, one on each side of the display.
Ok, from your original message I had the idea that the graphics card
wasn't working and the monitors couldn't sync or something like that.
> It's quite likely that we've been trying to solve the
wrong problem.
> Do you get a login screen?
Yes. I opened a terminal which gave me this prompt:
[beartooth@localhost-live ~]$
This was from the live image, right? I was asking about your regular
boot, which I think you answered below.
> Can you login?
Yes, with a lot of little boxes complaining about various applets
and offering to remove them. I told it not to. Then I did su - and it
took my regular root password.
So I opened Firefox to the Fedoramagazine page for upgrading by
CLI, and started copying & pasting as usual. It got as far as trying to
download F 32.
Then I got "Problem: The operation would result in removing the
following protected packages: sudo, systemd, systemd-udev (try to add --
skip-broken' to skip uninstallable packages)
So I added it, and got the identical problem message again. And
there it sits; but at least this time it's a different problem.
What does "cat /etc/fedora-release" tell you?
If it says you're on F31, then run:
"dnf system-upgrade download --release=32 --allowerasing"
If it says you're on F32, then run:
"dnf distro-sync"
and see what that offers to do.
11:03 a.m.
On Mon, 04 May 2020 13:31:40 -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote:
What does "cat /etc/fedora-release" tell you?
It said 32, much to my surprise. I was pretty sure (to my earlier
surprise) that all the packages it had been showing me were 31.
If it says you're on F31, then run:
"dnf system-upgrade download --release=32 --allowerasing"
See below.
If it says you're on F32, then run:
"dnf distro-sync"
and see what that offers to do.
It hit a great long (half a screenful) list of problems.
I tried the upgrade; it reminded me to refresh, and I did; it
installed inxi, whatever that is.
Then it hit the upgrade problems again, and this time suggested
"--allowerasing"; so I added that to " --skip-broken."
It stopped with the problem of sudo, systemd, and systemd-udev
--
Beartooth Staffwright, Not Quite Clueless Power User
Remember I know little (precious little!) of where up is!
12:37 p.m.
On 5/5/20 9:03 AM, Beartooth wrote:
On Mon, 04 May 2020 13:31:40 -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote:
> What does "cat /etc/fedora-release" tell you?
It said 32, much to my surprise. I was pretty sure (to my earlier
surprise) that all the packages it had been showing me were 31.
> If it says you're on F32, then run:
> "dnf distro-sync"
> and see what that offers to do.
It hit a great long (half a screenful) list of problems.
I tried the upgrade; it reminded me to refresh, and I did; it
installed inxi, whatever that is.
Then it hit the upgrade problems again, and this time suggested
"--allowerasing"; so I added that to " --skip-broken."
It stopped with the problem of sudo, systemd, and systemd-udev
It sounds like you started the the upgrade process but it failed part
way through. I think doing a re-install would be the much easier
option, but if you want to keep trying, then we can try a bit more.
What is the output of "dnf distro-sync --allowerasing" (at least the
problem parts)?
1:43 p.m.
On Tue, 05 May 2020 10:37:24 -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote:
It sounds like you started the the upgrade process but it failed
part
way through. I think doing a re-install would be the much easier
option, but if you want to keep trying, then we can try a bit more.
My bad. I took a guess at "re-install" and got it wrong -- trying
to re-do what I had.
Can I actually do something like "dnf re-install xyz"?? What do I
put for xyz when it's a whole OS??
--
Beartooth Staffwright, Not Quite Clueless Power User
Remember I know little (precious little!) of where up is.
1:46 p.m.
On 5/5/20 11:43 AM, Beartooth wrote:
On Tue, 05 May 2020 10:37:24 -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote:
> It sounds like you started the the upgrade process but it failed part
> way through. I think doing a re-install would be the much easier
> option, but if you want to keep trying, then we can try a bit more.
My bad. I took a guess at "re-install" and got it wrong -- trying
to re-do what I had.
Can I actually do something like "dnf re-install xyz"?? What do I
put for xyz when it's a whole OS??
You get a live image or a net install image and boot from it.
2:36 p.m.
On Tue, 05 May 2020 11:46:18 -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote:
On 5/5/20 11:43 AM, Beartooth wrote:
> On Tue, 05 May 2020 10:37:24 -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote:
>
>> It sounds like you started the the upgrade process but it failed part
>> way through. I think doing a re-install would be the much easier
>> option, but if you want to keep trying, then we can try a bit more.
>
> My bad. I took a guess at "re-install" and got it wrong -- trying
> to re-do what I had.
>
> Can I actually do something like "dnf re-install xyz"?? What do I
> put for xyz when it's a whole OS??
You get a live image or a net install image and boot from it.
Oh.
All right, I now have it booted into F32 Live, with a Mate-
terminal open.
3:01 p.m.
On 5/5/20 12:36 PM, Beartooth wrote:
On Tue, 05 May 2020 11:46:18 -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote:
> On 5/5/20 11:43 AM, Beartooth wrote:
>> On Tue, 05 May 2020 10:37:24 -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote:
>>
>>> It sounds like you started the the upgrade process but it failed part
>>> way through. I think doing a re-install would be the much easier
>>> option, but if you want to keep trying, then we can try a bit more.
>>
>> My bad. I took a guess at "re-install" and got it wrong -- trying
>> to re-do what I had.
>>
>> Can I actually do something like "dnf re-install xyz"?? What do I
>> put for xyz when it's a whole OS??
>
> You get a live image or a net install image and boot from it.
Oh.
All right, I now have it booted into F32 Live, with a Mate-
terminal open.
I've never use the Mate live boot. Did it have an install option when
it started up? If not, check the menus for an install option.
11:59 a.m.
On Tue, 05 May 2020 13:01:12 -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote:
> All right, I now have it booted into F32 Live, with a Mate-
> terminal open.
I've never use the Mate live boot. Did it have an install option when
it started up? If not, check the menus for an install option.
It has the usual icon (on the desktop, not a panel) labeled
"Install to hard drive." After going through all the menus I could find,
and not seeing one for re-install, I tried that. It didn't show a re-
install either, not automatically and not under the help button. So I
quit the install. Is there a CLI method? Maybe even one already online?
I should mention that never on any new install have I managed to
make /home separate; every interpretation I've ever put on any directions
has led only to an impasse from which I had to start over. I don't know
what I've always gotten wrong, nor even whether it's always been one
thing.
12:21 p.m.
On 05/06/2020 10:59 AM, Beartooth wrote:
I should mention that never on any new install have I managed to
make /home separate; every interpretation I've ever put on any directions
has led only to an impasse from which I had to start over. I don't know
what I've always gotten wrong, nor even whether it's always been one
thing.
And I've never had any trouble getting one. Weird! I always go into
Custom Partition, remove any partitions I don't want and create the
one's I need. If I'm reinstalling, I make sure that I specify that
/home does not get reformatted.
12:32 p.m.
On 5/6/20 9:59 AM, Beartooth wrote:
On Tue, 05 May 2020 13:01:12 -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote:
>> All right, I now have it booted into F32 Live, with a Mate-
>> terminal open.
>
> I've never use the Mate live boot. Did it have an install option when
> it started up? If not, check the menus for an install option.
It has the usual icon (on the desktop, not a panel) labeled
"Install to hard drive." After going through all the menus I could find,
and not seeing one for re-install, I tried that. It didn't show a re-
install either, not automatically and not under the help button. So I
quit the install. Is there a CLI method? Maybe even one already online?
re-install means do the install again, wiping out the previous install.
I should mention that never on any new install have I managed to
make /home separate; every interpretation I've ever put on any directions
has led only to an impasse from which I had to start over. I don't know
what I've always gotten wrong, nor even whether it's always been one
thing.
If you don't have a separate /home directory, you will need to make a
full backup of your current one because it will get wiped out in the
install. The install will require formatting the root partition.
12:44 p.m.
Doing this back and forth between two machines is very awkward,
and doing it with the KVM switch was worse. If I could make the live
medium run Pan, I could jump back and forth with the workspace switcher.
Is there a way to do that?
--
Beartooth Staffwright, Not Quite Clueless Power User
Remember I know little (precious little!) of where up is.
11:45 a.m.
New subject: Lost Mate-panel : SOLVED
On Fri, 01 May 2020 20:16:29 +0000, I Beartooth wrote:
Upgrading an E-series Thinkpad, a year or two old, running Fedora
31,
via CLI, the upgrade kept failing with complaints about i.686 -- till I
did "dnf remove mate-*.i.686" -- then it completed, or seemed to. This
machine was behind an HDMI KVM switch, and was giving a display spread
across both its own monitor and my regular one, with four panels on
each.
[....]
Is there a third way?
I finally thought to try "dnf remove mate-panel," copy the list of
deletions, and save to a file. THEN system-upgrade finally worked (doing
something mysterious to me to a couple of apps); I told dnf to install
the list I had saved, and all is well again. (I didn't think to try
simply commanding "dnf install mate-panel." If the same problem should
arise on my wife's similar machine, which I haven't yet upgraded, I will.)
--
Beartooth Staffwright, Not Quite Clueless Linux Power User
I have precious (very precious) little idea where up is.
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participants (4)
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Samuel Sieb