Regarding MP3 support

[viraj ambetkar]

Hi,

I installed FC3 and still found out that MP3s are still not supported.
 I understand the issues involved with MP3s.  However, I would like to
add that MP3s need not always be pirated.

Is it possible for me to play MP3s in FC3 using XMMS?  I tried
installing RealPlayer 10, but to no avail.  I have burnt a data CD  in
Windows XP with MP3s.  The CD is not even recognized in XMMS,
RealPlayer or Noatun.  I can play audio CDs just fine.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

FC3 lover

[Paul Howarth]

viraj ambetkar wrote:
>  I installed FC3 and still found out that MP3s are still not
> supported.
>   I understand the issues involved with MP3s.  However, I would like to
>  add that MP3s need not always be pirated. 
The last two sentences appear to be contradictory. The issues with MP3s 
are to do with patents, not piracy.

>  Is it possible for me to play MP3s in FC3 using XMMS?  I tried
>  installing RealPlayer 10, but to no avail.  I have burnt a data CD  in
>  Windows XP with MP3s.  The CD is not even recognized in XMMS,
>  RealPlayer or Noatun.  I can play audio CDs just fine.
>  
>  Any help is greatly appreciated. 
http://www.fedorafaq.org/#xmms-mp3

Paul.

[viraj ambetkar]

Thanks Paul,

I followed the steps mentioned in the FAQ.  It was stupid of me to not
do so in the first place.  Well interestingly, XMMS is still unable to
play the file using KDE 3.3, while I play any MP3, it gives an error
saying "Can't play audio" and adds some errors about the soundcard,
correct output plugin, etc.  I am able to hear the system sounds and
also play audio CDs fine with KsCD.  I am also unable to play MP3s
with Noatun.

I logged in with Gnome 2,8 and whoa, XMMS can easily play the same
files without errors!  I log in with KDE again and same problems!

Can anyone explain what might be the issue?

Thanks again for all the help so far,

Viraj 


On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 16:50:05 +0000, Paul Howarth <paul(a)city-fan.org&gt; wrote:
>  viraj ambetkar wrote:
>  > I installed FC3 and still found out that MP3s are still not supported.
>  >  I understand the issues involved with MP3s.  However, I would like to
>  > add that MP3s need not always be pirated.
>  
>  The last two sentences appear to be contradictory. The issues with MP3s
>  are to do with patents, not piracy.
>  
>  > Is it possible for me to play MP3s in FC3 using XMMS?  I tried
>  > installing RealPlayer 10, but to no avail.  I have burnt a data CD  in
>  > Windows XP with MP3s.  The CD is not even recognized in XMMS,
>  > RealPlayer or Noatun.  I can play audio CDs just fine.
>  >
>  > Any help is greatly appreciated.
>  
>  http://www.fedorafaq.org/#xmms-mp3
>  
>  Paul.
>  
>  --
>  fedora-list mailing list
>  fedora-list(a)redhat.com
>  To unsubscribe: http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
>

[Brian Ashe]

On Friday January 28, 2005 12:49 pm, viraj ambetkar wrote:
>  Thanks Paul,
>
>  I followed the steps mentioned in the FAQ.  It was stupid of me to not
>  do so in the first place.  Well interestingly, XMMS is still unable to
>  play the file using KDE 3.3, while I play any MP3, it gives an error
>  saying "Can't play audio" and adds some errors about the soundcard,
>  correct output plugin, etc.  I am able to hear the system sounds and
>  also play audio CDs fine with KsCD.  I am also unable to play MP3s
>  with Noatun.
>
>  I logged in with Gnome 2,8 and whoa, XMMS can easily play the same
>  files without errors!  I log in with KDE again and same problems!
>
>  Can anyone explain what might be the issue? 
You probably have an output plugin that conflicts with artsd. Go into the 
Options->Preferences->Audio I/O PlugIns area and at the bottom you should see 
"Output Plugin". Select arts and see if that takes care of it for you. 

-- 
Brian Ashe - CTO
Dee-Web Software Services, LLC.
http://www.dee-web.com/

[Gain Paolo Mureddu]

Brian Ashe wrote:

> On Friday January 28, 2005 12:49 pm, viraj ambetkar wrote:
>   
>
> >Thanks Paul,
> >
> >I followed the steps mentioned in the FAQ.  It was stupid of me to not
> >do so in the first place.  Well interestingly, XMMS is still unable to
> >play the file using KDE 3.3, while I play any MP3, it gives an error
> >saying "Can't play audio" and adds some errors about the soundcard,
> >correct output plugin, etc.  I am able to hear the system sounds and
> >also play audio CDs fine with KsCD.  I am also unable to play MP3s
> >with Noatun.
> >
> >I logged in with Gnome 2,8 and whoa, XMMS can easily play the same
> >files without errors!  I log in with KDE again and same problems!
> >
> >Can anyone explain what might be the issue?
> >    
> >
>
> You probably have an output plugin that conflicts with artsd. Go into the 
> Options->Preferences->Audio I/O PlugIns area and at the bottom you should see 
> "Output Plugin". Select arts and see if that takes care of it for you. 
>
>   
>  
I'd disable aRts altogether, but that's just me.

[Bernd Radinger]

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 17:49:31 +0000, viraj ambetkar
<princeofpersia79(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>  Thanks Paul,
>  
>  I followed the steps mentioned in the FAQ.  It was stupid of me to not
>  do so in the first place.  Well interestingly, XMMS is still unable to
>  play the file using KDE 3.3, while I play any MP3, it gives an error
>  saying "Can't play audio" and adds some errors about the soundcard,
>  correct output plugin, etc.  I am able to hear the system sounds and
>  also play audio CDs fine with KsCD.  I am also unable to play MP3s
>  with Noatun. 
works here. but I cheated and installed kde addons from livna =>
http://rpm.livna.org
 
% rpm -qa |grep kdemult
kdemultimedia-extras-3.3.1-0.lvn.3.3
kdemultimedia-3.3.1-1

-- 
Bernd

[Dave Cross]

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 16:44:33 +0000, viraj ambetkar
<princeofpersia79(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>  Hi,
>  
>  I installed FC3 and still found out that MP3s are still not supported.
>   I understand the issues involved with MP3s.  However, I would like to
>  add that MP3s need not always be pirated.
>  
>  Is it possible for me to play MP3s in FC3 using XMMS?  I tried
>  installing RealPlayer 10, but to no avail.  I have burnt a data CD  in
>  Windows XP with MP3s.  The CD is not even recognized in XMMS,
>  RealPlayer or Noatun.  I can play audio CDs just fine.
>  
>  Any help is greatly appreciated. 
Strangely enough, this is a frequently asked question.

  http://www.fedorafaq.org/#xmms-mp3

And the legal problems with mp3s have nothing to do with whether they
are pirated or not.

Dave...

[Thomas Zehetbauer]

I doubt that RedHat cares if you play pirated materials, they just
cannot ship any software containing unlicensed patents. MP3 is patented
by Fraunhofer/Thomson and they want $0.75 for every decoder with no
exception for free and open source software. Therefore you are required
to get MP3 support from a country that has not sold it's citizens and
economy to $$$ companies trying to monopolize their markets with
software patents.

Tom

-- 
  T h o m a s   Z e h e t b a u e r   ( TZ251 )
  PGP encrypted mail preferred - KeyID 96FFCB89
      finger thomasz(a)hostmaster.org for key

"Memory is like gasoline. You use it up when you are running. Of course you
get it all back when you reboot..."
                                        Microsoft Helpdesk

[Jim Higson]

On Friday 28 Jan 2005 16:44, viraj ambetkar wrote:

Viraj-

I realise it's not what you asked (other posters have already seen to that), 
but maybe you would consider storing your music in a freer format, such as 
Ogg Vorbis?

These formats are not subject to software patents in the US, and as such 
RedHat can distribute the decoders.

Of course, it depends if you are making the files or not, what you want to 
play them on and who you share them with. Just thought I'd outline the 
alternative to mp3.

-- 
Jim

[Temlakos]

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 17:51:27 +0000, Jim Higson <jh(a)333.org&gt; wrote:
>  Viraj-
>  
>  I realise it's not what you asked (other posters have already seen to that),
>  but maybe you would consider storing your music in a freer format, such as
>  Ogg Vorbis?
>  
>  These formats are not subject to software patents in the US, and as such
>  RedHat can distribute the decoders.
>  
>  Of course, it depends if you are making the files or not, what you want to
>  play them on and who you share them with. Just thought I'd outline the
>  alternative to mp3. 
If I might be so bold: the problem might be that he is /acquiring/ MP3
files from servers that won't release them as Ogg/Vorbis. It's all
very well for us to decide to rip our audio CD's to Ogg/Vorbis instead
of MP3. But that doesn't help the user who acquires MP3's that are
distributed by certain multimedia Webmasters who, AFAIK, are the
original owners or have themselves acquired full distribution rights.
An example would be the excellent recording of the Soviet Army Chorus
singing the Hymn to the Soviet Union, available on the Web site
dedicated to that song's history.

The problem, of course, is that MP3 is a lossy compression scheme, so
that converting from MP3 to Ogg/Vorbis will cost the user in the
quality of the recorded sound.

That said, I solved the problem by downloading the RealOne Player for
Linux. It will play MP3's without a problem, and Real Media charges
nothing. Evidently they have a long-standing MP3 license, and their
business model allows them to distribute, free-of-charge, a player
that supports MP3, even on an open-source platform like Linux.
-- 
Temlakos <temlakos(a)gmail.com&gt;

[Aleksandar Milivojevic]

Temlakos wrote:
>  
>  If I might be so bold: the problem might be that he is /acquiring/ MP3
>  files from servers that won't release them as Ogg/Vorbis. It's all
>  very well for us to decide to rip our audio CD's to Ogg/Vorbis instead
>  of MP3. But that doesn't help the user who acquires MP3's that are
>  distributed by certain multimedia Webmasters who, AFAIK, are the
>  original owners or have themselves acquired full distribution rights.
>  An example would be the excellent recording of the Soviet Army Chorus
>  singing the Hymn to the Soviet Union, available on the Web site
>  dedicated to that song's history. 
Or he bought them from one of the online stores.  $1 per song.

>  That said, I solved the problem by downloading the RealOne Player
> for
>  Linux. It will play MP3's without a problem, and Real Media charges
>  nothing. Evidently they have a long-standing MP3 license, and their
>  business model allows them to distribute, free-of-charge, a player
>  that supports MP3, even on an open-source platform like Linux. 
More likely they simply paid flat fee of $50,000 - $60,000 for unlimited 
decoder license for the base (free) version of Real player, and are 
paying $2.50 - $5.00 for each copy of pro (or gold, or whatever they 
call it now) version they sell.  While commercial company can probably 
afford spending $50-60k for license for something they are giving for 
free, most open source developers can't.  Wich puts them in inferior 
position.  Something legislators hasn't envisioned would happen.  If 
they was, they probably wouldn't allow for software patents, or there 
would be some limitations on their applicability (believe it or not, 
patent law is about giving inscentive for research and development of 
any kind, so that society as hole can benefit from it, not about 
companies making big money).  That's where the big fuss in Europe is 
about right know.  While Americans had allowed software patents before 
it was clear that it was mistake, Europeans are now in position to see 
that not having software patents actually returns greater value to the 
society at the end (well, except for pattent office, that probably only 
thinks about all the money they can make on patent applications which 
are rather expensive over there).

-- 
Aleksandar Milivojevic <amilivojevic(a)pbl.ca&gt;    Pollard Banknote Limited
Systems Administrator                           1499 Buffalo Place
Tel: [phone] ext 276                     Winnipeg, MB  R3T 1L7

[Maxim Eremeev]

Aleksandar Milivojevic wrote:

>  Temlakos wrote:
>
> >
> > If I might be so bold: the problem might be that he is /acquiring/ MP3
> > files from servers that won't release them as Ogg/Vorbis. It's all
> > very well for us to decide to rip our audio CD's to Ogg/Vorbis instead
> > of MP3. But that doesn't help the user who acquires MP3's that are
> > distributed by certain multimedia Webmasters who, AFAIK, are the
> > original owners or have themselves acquired full distribution rights.
> > An example would be the excellent recording of the Soviet Army Chorus
> > singing the Hymn to the Soviet Union, available on the Web site
> > dedicated to that song's history.
>
>
>  Or he bought them from one of the online stores.  $1 per song.
>
> > That said, I solved the problem by downloading the RealOne Player for
> > Linux. It will play MP3's without a problem, and Real Media charges
> > nothing. Evidently they have a long-standing MP3 license, and their
> > business model allows them to distribute, free-of-charge, a player
> > that supports MP3, even on an open-source platform like Linux.
>
>
>  More likely they simply paid flat fee of $50,000 - $60,000 for 
>  unlimited decoder license for the base (free) version of Real player, 
>  and are paying $2.50 - $5.00 for each copy of pro (or gold, or 
>  whatever they call it now) version they sell.  While commercial 
>  company can probably afford spending $50-60k for license for something 
>  they are giving for free, most open source developers can't.  Wich 
>  puts them in inferior position.  Something legislators hasn't 
>  envisioned would happen. 
Pretty sure they envisioned it all right ;)

>  If they was, they probably wouldn't allow for software patents,
> or 
>  there would be some limitations on their applicability (believe it or 
>  not, patent law is about giving inscentive for research and 
>  development of any kind, so that society as hole can benefit from it, 
>  not about companies making big money). 
And what is the lobbies for? ;))

>  That's where the big fuss in Europe is about right know.  While 
>  Americans had allowed software patents before it was clear that it was 
>  mistake, Europeans are now in position to see that not having software 
>  patents actually returns greater value to the society at the end 
>  (well, except for pattent office, that probably only thinks about all 
>  the money they can make on patent applications which are rather 
>  expensive over there).
>  
Basically, who cares about "the society"?

[Aleksandar Milivojevic]

Maxim Eremeev wrote:
>  Aleksandar Milivojevic wrote:
> > If they was, they probably wouldn't allow for software patents, or 
> > there would be some limitations on their applicability (believe it or 
> > not, patent law is about giving inscentive for research and 
> > development of any kind, so that society as hole can benefit from it, 
> > not about companies making big money).
>  
>  And what is the lobbies for? ;))
>  
> > That's where the big fuss in Europe is about right know.  While 
> > Americans had allowed software patents before it was clear that it was 
> > mistake, Europeans are now in position to see that not having software 
> > patents actually returns greater value to the society at the end 
> > (well, except for pattent office, that probably only thinks about all 
> > the money they can make on patent applications which are rather 
> > expensive over there).
> >
>  Basically, who cares about "the society"? 
Hey, I can at least dream the world is perfect ;-)

Yeah, I know, reality is far away from perfect.  Who knows, if people 
were not so stupid when it comes to to whom they give their vote during 
elections, maybe things would be different.

-- 
Aleksandar Milivojevic <amilivojevic(a)pbl.ca&gt;    Pollard Banknote Limited
Systems Administrator                           1499 Buffalo Place
Tel: [phone] ext 276                     Winnipeg, MB  R3T 1L7

[Michael A. Peters]

On 01/28/2005 01:19:17 PM, Temlakos wrote:
>  On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 17:51:27 +0000, Jim Higson <jh(a)333.org&gt;
> wrote:
>  > Viraj-
>  >
>  > I realise it's not what you asked (other posters have already seen
>  to that),
>  > but maybe you would consider storing your music in a freer format,
>  such as
>  > Ogg Vorbis?
>  >
>  
>  If I might be so bold: the problem might be that he is /acquiring/  
>  MP3
>  files from servers that won't release them as Ogg/Vorbis. 
It also could be that he has an iPod or other mp3 player that does not  
support ogg.

[Brian Mury]

On Sat, 2005-29-01 at 02:23 +0000, Michael A. Peters wrote:
>  It also could be that he has an iPod or other mp3 player that does
> not  
>  support ogg. 
So anyone know of any iPod-like players that support ogg? Something in
the 20 to 40 GB range would be nice.

[Serge de Souza]

Brian Mury wrote:
>  On Sat, 2005-29-01 at 02:23 +0000, Michael A. Peters wrote:
>  
> >It also could be that he has an iPod or other mp3 player that does not  
> >support ogg.
>  
>  
>  So anyone know of any iPod-like players that support ogg? Something in
>  the 20 to 40 GB range would be nice.
>  
>   
  iRiver have a player IIRC which supports ogg, mp3 and maybe some other 
coedcs, have a look online.

[Thomas Zehetbauer]

On Fri, 2005-01-28 at 23:05 -0800, Brian Mury wrote:
>  So anyone know of any iPod-like players that support ogg? Something
> in
>  the 20 to 40 GB range would be nice. 
I use my Palm Zire 71 with Pocket Tunes for playing OGG. Do you really
need that much memory? I use a 256MB SD-Card and get about 6 full albums
on it. These cards are available at capacities up to 1GB today.

Tom

-- 
  T h o m a s   Z e h e t b a u e r   ( TZ251 )
  PGP encrypted mail preferred - KeyID 96FFCB89
      finger thomasz(a)hostmaster.org for key

[Brian Mury]

On Sat, 2005-29-01 at 17:45 +0800, Serge de Souza wrote:
>    iRiver have a player IIRC which supports ogg, mp3 and maybe some
>  other 
>  coedcs, have a look online. 
Thanks Serge, I will take a look.

On Sat, 2005-29-01 at 11:39 +0100, Thomas Zehetbauer wrote:
>  On Fri, 2005-01-28 at 23:05 -0800, Brian Mury wrote:
>  > Something in the 20 to 40 GB range would be nice.
>  
>  Do you really need that much memory? I use a 256MB SD-Card and get
>  about 6 full albums on it. 
I don't *need* a player at all. :-)

I am in the process of ripping my entire CD collection. I am currently
up to about 10 GB. I like the idea of being able to carry my entire CD
collection in my pocket, and not have to decide before hand which 6
albums I want to have available. Especially when the military sends me
somewhere for 6 months!

[Michael A. Peters]

On 01/29/2005 02:51:08 AM, Brian Mury wrote:

>  
>  I am in the process of ripping my entire CD collection. I am  
>  currently
>  up to about 10 GB. I like the idea of being able to carry my entire  
>  CD
>  collection in my pocket, and not have to decide before hand which 6
>  albums I want to have available. Especially when the military sends  
>  me
>  somewhere for 6 months! 
Do yourself a favor - go buy a hard drive or three, and rip to flac  
lossless. Flac supports tags, so once you fix the messed up CDDB  
entries, you are gold from then on. Then you can go from flac to  
whatever (mp3, aac, ogg) and it is just like (quality wise) ripping  
from the original media, as flac is lossless, but it is MUCH faster  
because you can fit a large number of flac files on a single hard drive  
and don't have to swap CD's etc.

In say five years, when ogg, mp3, aac are obsoleted by something with  
transparent quality at half the filesize of current typical lossy (I  
use -preset standard, ~ 196 VBR) - you can move to it without having to  
re-rip everything again.

You don't have to keep the drive mounted, I attach mine only when /home  
is starting to get full and I need to move recently ripped flacs off of / 
home and onto the drive (or when I want to transcode to a different  
lossy format - or use a newer/better version of lame to re-encode  
everything, etc.)

[Michael A. Peters]

On 01/29/2005 02:39:41 AM, Thomas Zehetbauer wrote:
>  On Fri, 2005-01-28 at 23:05 -0800, Brian Mury wrote:
>  > So anyone know of any iPod-like players that support ogg? Something
>  in
>  > the 20 to 40 GB range would be nice.
>  
>  I use my Palm Zire 71 with Pocket Tunes for playing OGG. Do you  
>  really
>  need that much memory? I use a 256MB SD-Card and get about 6 full
>  albums
>  on it. 
For me that is not an option - since I do not drive, charging something  
is difficult - so having a palm turned on and playing is not a good  
idea, as it may then not have battery when I need it. Also - since I  
ride a bike, having a player I can easily secure to my belt is the best  
way to go - etc.

So for me to go with ogg, I would need a player like a mini that has  
protective cases available that easily SOLIDLY clip to a belt, and  
probably 256 MB is not big enough, though the nice thing about cards is  
you carry a few extras if you get bored with one.

Using ogg sounds nice - but it just really is more difficult because it  
does not have the market penetration in devices that mp3 has. There's a  
time for being idealistic, and there's a time for using what works in  
the present.

[Jim Higson]

>  Using ogg sounds nice - but it just really is more difficult because
> it
>  does not have the market penetration in devices that mp3 has. There's a
>  time for being idealistic, and there's a time for using what works in
>  the present. 
When I first brought Ogg up I said:

	"Of course, it depends if you are making the files or not, what you want to
	play them on and who you share them with..."

So, clearly I was saying Ogg is best where you can use it. Of course I have an 
mp3 decoder installed (but then I don't live in the US anyway)

However, there is a time when "it works" isn't enough. I don't think
we've 
reached that point yet, mp3 isn't anything like as bad as the "trusted" 
computing formats of the future.

It's ironic that while the record industry fought internet downloading for so 
long because of piracy, they're turning to it now because it's the only way 
they can control copying of the music.

Anyway, this is getting OT, but there is also a time to be idealistic.

-- 
Jim

[Ernie McCracken]

On Fri, Jan 28, 2005 at 11:05:25PM -0800, Brian Mury wrote:
>  On Sat, 2005-29-01 at 02:23 +0000, Michael A. Peters wrote:
>  > It also could be that he has an iPod or other mp3 player that does not  
>  > support ogg.
>  
>  So anyone know of any iPod-like players that support ogg? Something in
>  the 20 to 40 GB range would be nice. 
The Rio Karma is a 20GB player that supports mp3, ogg, and flac.  The
software interface to it is written in Java and works well under FC3.

http://www.digitalnetworksna.com/shop/item.asp?model=261

[Michael A. Peters]

On 01/28/2005 01:19:17 PM, Temlakos wrote:

>  
>  If I might be so bold: the problem might be that he is /acquiring/  
>  MP3
>  files from servers that won't release them as Ogg/Vorbis. It's all
>  very well for us to decide to rip our audio CD's to Ogg/Vorbis  
>  instead
>  of MP3. But that doesn't help the user who acquires MP3's that are
>  distributed by certain multimedia Webmasters who, AFAIK, are the
>  original owners or have themselves acquired full distribution rights. 
That's excellent - Just now, since my last post to list, my Spanish  
homework required listening to an audio component - downloadable from  
the website of the textbook publisher.

This was required because the homework questions were pertaining to the  
audio dialogue.

Guess what compression format the Publisher uses.
mp3 support is definitely something many people _need_

Fortunately rpm.livna.org supplies that, so xmms / GStreamer can used -  
RealPlayer Linux isn't as bad as it use to be, but it still is not good  
for this sort of thing.