2:41 a.m.
This is a call for understanding because of lack of knowledge. Apologies
for the mix of issues in one message but they all relate to the same
problem.
Firstly,
I've been reading the pro's and con's of RHEL and Fedora and am none the
wiser. It seems to be around cost of service and lack or availability
thereof. The beginning discussion was, I think on stability.
It made me start thinking about Fedora vs CentOS because of the problems
I'm experiencing with Drupal 7 and php/Apache in Fedora 18 so here goes.
I believe that the latest Apache updates of some time ago were flawed or
do not correctly interact with php or php updates were flawed and have
not been corrected. I have nothing to back up this assertion other than
the problems now being experienced and a recommendation to remove php
5.4 and revert to an earlier version.
Please don't quote me on this, It's what I've noticed, read and considered.
When I use Ruby on Rails I do not have issues because it uses WEBrick.
Discussion to date says that CentOS circa 6.n has the Fedora 14 kernel,
is rock solid and gets updates every 6 months approx.
Fedora 18 has kernel updates every few days or weeks at most. Frankly I
enjoy the update cycle. It's interesting to see what gets improved. I
have always run latest Fedora versions and have not experienced the
current raft of problems.
Fedora 18 sudo yum update, updates everything apps, modules, etc that
needs security fixes or improvements.
CentOS is a server system but can be used for a stable desktop system
and has been recommended as an alternative.
So what does CentOS 6.n desktop, yum update actually update or does it
leave all the apps like cinnamon desktop, skype, gimp, apache, php,
libreoffice, python, pulseaudio, gnome, Firefox or chrome as they are
first installed, circa Fedora 14ish?
One would think that this would leave significant vulnerability.
If it runs the latest spate of updates then is it not little different
from Fedora 18 but with an old kernel?
Further reading implies that the better CentOS installation should be
text based as a server only and that I should run all my work on the
server not Fedora 18.
I am now having significant problems with an already built Drupal 7 site
on Fedora 18 after the latest spate of php updates and am perplexed as
to what to do to get a quality stable functioning and stay functioning.
I've got ubuntu 12.10 but it is now so slow that it's not easy to use.
Further, I have 2 gig memory, intel mb, fast dual cpu, 250g hard drives
and my desktop fedora 18 uses 55-63 percent memory. I thought this may
be affecting php and apache, hence Drupal, but
The Dell 1520 laptop has the same internals and memory and uses
25percent of the 2 gig memory, same drupal, same Ruby on Rails.
I'm puzzled because after checking ps aux, top, and System Monitor on
both they are very similar yet memory usage is markedly different. I do
not know what I should be looking at to understand the issues and/or fixes.
Is there an app that I can use to track what happens in the browser,
apache, php and Drupal when I start the Drupal site on my machine.
Help is greatly appreciated
thanks in advance
Roger
Off Topic...Does anyone know of a Rails dev who would be able to help
and teach me building a small application?
Thanks again
Roger
9:29 a.m.
On 04/16/2013 09:41 AM, Roger wrote:
So what does CentOS 6.n desktop, yum update actually update or does
it
leave all the apps like cinnamon desktop, skype, gimp, apache, php,
libreoffice, python, pulseaudio, gnome, Firefox or chrome as they are
first installed, circa Fedora 14ish?
Mostly the latter.
In particular, RHEL/CentOS don't receive any API/ABI incompatible
updates and usually only receives very moderate updates of
programs/applications.
This is very similar to what Fedora does during the life-time of a
Fedora release. The major difference here is Fedora's life-time is ca. 1
year, while RHEL's is much longer.
However, as RHEL/CentOS is much smaller/leaner than Fedora, you usually
will find RHEL/CentOS use-cases are pretty limited and will find
yourself adding packages, which RHEL/CentOS does not provide, from
add-on repositories (e.g. EPEL). These usually apply different
update/upgrade strategies of their own.
One would think that this would leave significant vulnerability.
Nope. RH is backporting security fixes over the whole life-time of a
RHEL release.
If it runs the latest spate of updates then is it not little
different
from Fedora 18 but with an old kernel?
No. RHEL is very different from Fedora. RHEL
continues to use the "old
status" - Very oversimplied, RHEL/CentOS API/ABI is that of "Fedora 14".
That means, RHEL/CentOS based works usually are "long term stable" but
usually also means these works can't apply the "bells and whistles" new
works depend upon.
Further reading implies that the better CentOS installation should
be
text based as a server only and that I should run all my work on the
server not Fedora 18.
I do not understand. Oversimplied, CentOS/RHEL technically
are 3 years
old, rock solid and small/limited. Fedora is on the bleeding edge,
mediocre solid and "big".
Both situations have pros and cons of their own - Which to choose
largely is a matter of your situation and of your case of deploying
them. I for one use Fedora on desktops, but am using CentOS on servers.
Ralf
4:31 p.m.
Am 19.04.2013 23:29, schrieb g:
On 04/19/2013 04:18 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:
<>
unless you are the moderator for this list, stop trying acting like one.
i do not be a moderator to qualify FUD as what it is
reply with what ever you like, because i will not see any more of
your post.
hopefully i do not see yours
so again, KAFBA
grow up child
9:36 p.m.
On Sun, 2013-04-21 at 09:51 +1000, Roger wrote:
On 04/21/2013 05:01 AM, Craig White wrote:
>> There you have it. Complex and puzzling.
> ----
> problem #1 seems like it would occur on any server that is bound by
> memory limits insufficient for the application and extensions you are
> using. If your cloud server doesn't have enough memory, buy more memory
> so that you can give it 256M. Likewise on F18.
>
> problem #2 sounds like the known Chrome 'pre-fetch' issue that has come
> up lately (you can Google it). Google is aware of the problem and is
> working on a solution if that is the case. Are you aware of which
> browser causes this problem? Is it Chrome?
>
> Craig
>
Thanks Craig
Seems to be both Firefox and Chrome, and most puzzling is that it's
happening on Fedora 16 also which has no updates for months.
Roger
----
wild guess with only anecdotal evidence... You added some extensions to
your Drupal setup that are badly behaved, incompatible or just simply
memory pigs.
Craig
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.
6:51 p.m.
On 04/21/2013 05:01 AM, Craig White wrote:
> There you have it. Complex and puzzling.
----
problem #1 seems like it would occur on any server that is bound by
memory limits insufficient for the application and extensions you are
using. If your cloud server doesn't have enough memory, buy more memory
so that you can give it 256M. Likewise on F18.
problem #2 sounds like the known Chrome 'pre-fetch' issue that has come
up lately (you can Google it). Google is aware of the problem and is
working on a solution if that is the case. Are you aware of which
browser causes this problem? Is it Chrome?
Craig
Thanks Craig
Seems to be both Firefox and Chrome, and most puzzling is that it's
happening on Fedora 16 also which has no updates for months.
Roger
6:14 p.m.
James Hogarth wrote:
>
>
> The top program may shed some light, I don't think of anything off-hand which
measures disk performance on a per-process basis.
>
>
There is actually an iotop that does this ;-)
True, although I was thinking more of something like the output of iostat, with
data for each process, ie. a matrix of reads and writes to each filesystem or
raw device, to show which process is doing what io on which device.
IOtop is useful for tracking total per-PID io, and in some cases that is just
what you need, particularly on a typical desktop with a single drive.
--
Bill Davidsen <davidsen(a)tmr.com>
"We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from
the machinations of the wicked." - from Slashdot
9:40 p.m.
On 04/20/2013 07:37 AM, Jared K. Smith wrote:
On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 3:41 AM, Roger <arelem(a)bigpond.com
<mailto:arelem@bigpond.com>> wrote:
It made me start thinking about Fedora vs CentOS because of the
problems I'm experiencing with Drupal 7 and php/Apache in Fedora
18 so here goes.
It might be helpful to tell us what problems you're encountering with
PHP, Apache, and Drupal 7 under Fedora 18. I'm running Drupal 7 just
fine on Fedora 18, and am willing to help you track down any issues
you're encountering.
--
Jared Smith
Hi Jared
Thank you.
Until a few weeks ago I had no problem with Fedora 18 nor Drupal 7 on my
machines but the problem existed on the server since Drupal 7.21.
I was running a site copy some weeks old on my machines with no problems.
A few days ago I copied the server site to my machine and now have the
same problems.
Problem1 on the Server:
In Drupal 7, as administrator go to <Structure><Content types><Add
Content type> I get: php Fatal memory error. Tried to allocate nnnnnnn
bytes. --- It is <only> when creating a new content type. Everything
else works as expected. The site has no faults, nothing in the logs.
Maximum allowable setting for php.ini on the remote server is 128M
Server runs cloudLinux based on Centos 6.n, php 5.3
On my machine/s I have experimented with php memory from 64M to 512M. At
256M the memory problem goes away temporarily.
Problem2: Apache.
Since the update a couple of weeks ago I get:
The connection was reset error and Error 324 (net::ERR_EMPTY_RESPONSE):
The server closed the connection without sending any data.
Restarting apache does not work, restarting the pc resets apache and php
and the problem goes away for a few minutes.
I suspect php or some interaction between apache and php but have no
expertise in those areas.
There you have it. Complex and puzzling.
Roger
4:14 p.m.
On 04/19/2013 04:07 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:
<<>>
KAFBA
--
in a world with out fences, who needs gates.
tc. hago.
g
.
7:11 p.m.
On Fri, 2013-04-19 at 16:29 -0500, g wrote:
On 04/19/2013 04:18 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:
<>
unless you are the moderator for this list, stop trying acting like one.
reply with what ever you like, because i will not see any more of your post.
so again, KAFBA.
--
Sorry, but this reaction is uncalled for. Reindl may sometimes appear
rude (I often feel so too), but in this thread he has been providing
accurate information. You have been making unfounded statements.
Different people can have different needs and therefore prefer different
distros. I have been using Centos on my server now for years and it has
been rock stable. You prefer Scientific linux, fine. I however have to
agree with Reindl that you have been spreading only FUD where it comes
to Centos.
4:37 p.m.
On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 3:41 AM, Roger <arelem(a)bigpond.com> wrote:
It made me start thinking about Fedora vs CentOS because of the
problems
I'm experiencing with Drupal 7 and php/Apache in Fedora 18 so here goes.
It might be helpful to tell us what problems you're encountering with PHP,
Apache, and Drupal 7 under Fedora 18. I'm running Drupal 7 just fine on
Fedora 18, and am willing to help you track down any issues you're
encountering.
--
Jared Smith
4:29 p.m.
On 04/19/2013 04:18 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:
<>
unless you are the moderator for this list, stop trying acting like one.
reply with what ever you like, because i will not see any more of your post.
so again, KAFBA.
--
in a world with out fences, who needs gates.
tc. hago.
g
.
4:07 p.m.
Am 19.04.2013 22:52, schrieb g:
On 04/16/2013 10:10 PM, Roger wrote:
> <snip>
>> so drop centos and run fedora and/or scientific linux. you may well
>> find that scientific linux is very close to current fedora, with the
>> exception of some new !whiz! !bang! software.
>>
>> </snip>
> This is just about where I am at now.
> CentOs is getting too hard to contend with and I believe I'll have to
> devote a day to installing everything.
i agree with you 100%.
tho there are others who mistakenly believe that centos is the 'new god'
of linux. bfs!
stop your trolling
nobody here believes in any god in case of IT
hence i do not use CentOS regulary
only for two appliances, OpenVAS and VMware-Recovery
why? because they both need a non-moving target
and that is the difference between believe and facts
you have to choose the right platform for whatever project
there is no OS or distribution to "fit them all"
after your unproven lies about CentOS in another thread
you should stop trolling now
3:52 p.m.
hello roger.
On 04/16/2013 10:10 PM, Roger wrote:
<snip>
> so drop centos and run fedora and/or scientific linux. you may well
> find that scientific linux is very close to current fedora, with the
> exception of some new !whiz! !bang! software.
>
> </snip>
This is just about where I am at now.
CentOs is getting too hard to contend with and I believe I'll have to
devote a day to installing everything.
i agree with you 100%.
tho there are others who mistakenly believe that centos is the 'new god'
of linux. bfs!
check the thread;
}> Message-ID: <5167DAD3.1060308(a)azdwiggins.com>
}> Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 02:58:43 -0700
}> From: Mike Dwiggins <mike(a)azdwiggins.com>
}> To: users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
}> Subject: Fedora vs RHEL
and you will see what i mean.
i tried centos, did not like it, wiped it.
i have been with scientific linux [sl] for close to 6 years now and
i have yet to regret installing it.
i try the new releases every few releases, but i can not follow their new
releases every 6 months. i need a system that is stable and will remain
operational. this is not to say that fedora is unstable. i used it from
fl 6 up thru f12 and enjoyed it.
i do like fedora, it has a lot of nice features. truth is, i have, rather
had a 3 drive system with f12 in it, that i used for gnucash. i say 'had'
because when i tried to install f18 to system, i had to use text mode.
thanks to fedora now insisting on using lvm, and i forgot about, and which
i have never really cared for, the installer marked the 3 drives as lvm.
needless to say, the system got trashed. so i am not trying various recovery
programs to see if i can get system back. so will say i should have backed
them up, but backing up a 20g0 boot byte drive and 2 120g0 byte drives is a
bit extreme.
i did plan ahead and saved boot tracks to files for the 3 drives, but due
to a distraction of a phone call and my chemotherapy corrupted memory, i
failed to copy the boot tracks to a cd in event of need for recovery.
do not take this in any way that i do not like fedora, because i do.
i just need a system that has a long eol and sl has been increased
to 10 years.
i have help some folks with fedora installations and they enjoy it.
something that i will do from now on is when i help with the installs,
i sill set up /home on a separate drive and show user how to disable
drive in bios so they will not lose their personal data.
will i recommend fedora to oos users to try fedora? most definitely.
i will also advise them of the pros and cons of a 'testing' system,
as well as advising them of the pros and cons of using sl. then the
decision is theirs.
my background with computers started with punch cards and graduated to
mini systems. later, i built an s100 system based on cromemco cdos, and
enhanced version of cp/m written for use with z80, then cromix for z80,
then cromix for z80/m6800.
when slackware came out with their floppy release of linux, i tried it,
i like it. when redhat released their version on cd, i installed it and
liked it more that slackware, so i totally dropped slackware.
when redhat released fedora, i moved to it and held at fl4. when fl6 was
released, i tried it but had trouble because it would not install to the
reiserfs i was using, but i was not aware of such and thought there was
a problem with the release, so i stayed with fl4. when fl8 was released,
i decided to give it a go, but it was still a no-go due to reiserfs. this
time i decided to ask on support list about problem. there where many
suggestions, but none worked until 1 poster ask how i had drives formatted.
sure enough, when i told him, he replied back about the format problem.
i changed format and it all was go.
i did get tired of the updates and minor bugs, so i tried sl and centos
because of their cloning rhel. with some of the problems of centos and
none with sl, i moved to sl and used fedora for the advanced release of
gnucash.
i will exhaust all efforts to recover to recover my 3 drives, if not, i will
rebuild them using sl6.4 and install f12 because i still have that on dvd.
i am not concerned about connecting to internet, so security bugs, etc are
not a problem.
please excuse my regressing from "Subject:", but i felt a little background
would help explain why i follow fedora users support list. :-)
--
in a world with out fences, who needs gates.
tc. hago.
g
.
2:07 a.m.
Roger wrote:
This is a call for understanding because of lack of knowledge.
Apologies for the
mix of issues in one message but they all relate to the same problem.
Firstly,
I've been reading the pro's and con's of RHEL and Fedora and am none the
wiser.
It seems to be around cost of service and lack or availability thereof. The
beginning discussion was, I think on stability.
It made me start thinking about Fedora vs CentOS because of the problems I'm
experiencing with Drupal 7 and php/Apache in Fedora 18 so here goes.
You need to make sure the Drupal and php versions are compatible. Actually the
php and everything else, as my impression is that 5.4 is not a proper superset
of earlier versions, a clear violation of Plauger's Law of Least Astonishment.
I believe that the latest Apache updates of some time ago were flawed
or do not
correctly interact with php or php updates were flawed and have not been
corrected. I have nothing to back up this assertion other than the problems now
being experienced and a recommendation to remove php 5.4 and revert to an
earlier version.
Please don't quote me on this, It's what I've noticed, read and considered.
What I said, but only the advice without the explanation. An upgrade to whatever
is not working to match php would be better, but you do what you must.
When I use Ruby on Rails I do not have issues because it uses
WEBrick.
Answered elsewhere.
Discussion to date says that CentOS circa 6.n has the Fedora 14
kernel, is rock
solid and gets updates every 6 months approx.
Fedora 18 has kernel updates every few days or weeks at most. Frankly I enjoy
the update cycle. It's interesting to see what gets improved. I have always run
latest Fedora versions and have not experienced the current raft of problems.
RHEL/CentOS/SL are not "updated" to new versions (with rare exceptions)
but
patched with back ported security fixes. THis gives stbility (they work the
same) with security (the bugs stop being an issue).
Fedora 18 sudo yum update, updates everything apps, modules, etc that
needs
security fixes or improvements.
CentOS is a server system but can be used for a stable desktop system and has
been recommended as an alternative.
So what does CentOS 6.n desktop, yum update actually update or does it leave all
the apps like cinnamon desktop, skype, gimp, apache, php, libreoffice, python,
pulseaudio, gnome, Firefox or chrome as they are first installed, circa Fedora
14ish?
One would think that this would leave significant vulnerability.
If it runs the latest spate of updates then is it not little different from
Fedora 18 but with an old kernel?
It stays like Fedora14, old software now working as intended.
Further reading implies that the better CentOS installation should be
text based
as a server only and that I should run all my work on the server not Fedora 18.
I am now having significant problems with an already built Drupal 7 site on
Fedora 18 after the latest spate of php updates and am perplexed as to what to
do to get a quality stable functioning and stay functioning.
I've got ubuntu 12.10 but it is now so slow that it's not easy to use.
Further, I have 2 gig memory, intel mb, fast dual cpu, 250g hard drives and my
desktop fedora 18 uses 55-63 percent memory. I thought this may be affecting php
and apache, hence Drupal, but
The Dell 1520 laptop has the same internals and memory and uses 25percent of the
2 gig memory, same drupal, same Ruby on Rails.
I'm puzzled because after checking ps aux, top, and System Monitor on both they
are very similar yet memory usage is markedly different. I do not know what I
should be looking at to understand the issues and/or fixes.
Depends on what you have run and are running, stuff will be in cache and
buffers, that RAM is "available" rather than "free." Read about
caching if that
isn't enough.
Is there an app that I can use to track what happens in the browser,
apache, php
and Drupal when I start the Drupal site on my machine.
Help is greatly appreciated
The top program may shed some light, I don't think of anything off-hand which
measures disk performance on a per-process basis.
thanks in advance
Roger
Off Topic...Does anyone know of a Rails dev who would be able to help and teach
me building a small application?
Not my thing to do for fun or money.
--
Bill Davidsen <davidsen(a)tmr.com>
"We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from
the machinations of the wicked." - from Slashdot
10:48 p.m.
On 04/16/2013 10:01 PM, Craig White wrote:
On Tue, 2013-04-16 at 21:48 -0500, g wrote:
>
> so drop centos and run fedora and/or scientific linux. you may well
> find that scientific linux is very close to current fedora, with the
> exception of some new !whiz! !bang! software.
----
highly uninformed opinion.
highly unaware reply.
being in need of a stable release/clone of rhel, i first tried centos.
it was a lot of trouble.
when i tried scientific linux, i had nothing but satisfactory results.
so i stayed with scientific linux.
If you don't know the difference between Scientific Linux and
CentOS and
RHEL, why on earth would you offer an opinion?
again, highly unaware reply.
having tried both, i do have knowledge of both.
Hint - Scientific Linux and CentOS are rebuilds from RHEL source
rpms.
They all have nothing to do with Fedora packaging except that they can
use EPEL repository to supplement their offerings.
thank you, but i do not need your hint for what i read about before i
ever considered trying the clones. nor do i believe you will find that
i made an referencing to packaging, other than the including of
liveusb-creator.
--
in a world with out fences, who needs gates.
tc. hago.
g
.
10:10 p.m.
<snip>
so drop centos and run fedora and/or scientific linux. you may well
find that scientific linux is very close to current fedora, with the
exception of some new !whiz! !bang! software.
</snip>
This is just about where I am at now.
CentOs is getting too hard to contend with and I believe I'll have to
devote a day to installing everything.
10:01 p.m.
On Tue, 2013-04-16 at 21:48 -0500, g wrote:
so drop centos and run fedora and/or scientific linux. you may well
find that scientific linux is very close to current fedora, with the
exception of some new !whiz! !bang! software.
----
highly uninformed opinion.
If you don't know the difference between Scientific Linux and CentOS and
RHEL, why on earth would you offer an opinion?
Hint - Scientific Linux and CentOS are rebuilds from RHEL source rpms.
They all have nothing to do with Fedora packaging except that they can
use EPEL repository to supplement their offerings.
Craig
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.
9:49 p.m.
On Wed, 2013-04-17 at 11:44 +1000, Roger wrote:
Thank you to all for the very helpful info.
I have CentOS-6.4-x86_64-minimal.iso downloaded.
My laptop on which I'll do the first install does not have a
functioning dvd drive so it has to be usb install.
I installed Fedora 18 on it this way.
All the info I'm reading says I have to reformat my usb to a fat
system, why? Is there any reason CentOS doesn't use ext formatting?
Also for some reason Brasero now does not burn to usb, I don't
remember how I put the Fedora Iso on the USB.
Also it seems extremely complicated to create a CentOS usb
installation.
http://ihazem.wordpress.com/2012/02/12/installing-centos-from-usb/
I read that the CentOS people aren't interested in end user but it
seems that end user or non server computers may not have dvd drives
for much longer, making CentOS out of reach of end users.
Seems like it's out of reach for now.
Thanks
Roger
----
I'm quite sure that you'll find instructions on installing CentOS from a
USB disk on CentOS Wiki - always best to start with the source.
CentOS mail list is quite useful and helpful but not tolerant of
chatter.
Yes, the installation process from a USB flash disk will indeed format
the disk in vfat but that should be of little interest/consequence since
you can wipe it after you are done and format it with any filesystem
that you want.
Craig
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.
9:48 p.m.
On 04/16/2013 08:44 PM, Roger wrote:
<>
Thank you to all for the very helpful info.
I have CentOS-6.4-x86_64-minimal.iso downloaded.
why are you wanting to use centos?
My laptop on which I'll do the first install does not have a
functioning
dvd drive so it has to be usb install.
which is why many distros are now including a live usb creator.
i would not doubt if we start seeing *-usb.iso, or some other naming
to indicate it is for usb installation. maybe even *.usb. ;-)
All the info I'm reading says I have to reformat my usb to a fat
system,
why? Is there any reason CentOS doesn't use ext formatting?
maintain compatibility with old oos and mac or that fat is a better format
for small files and files that are not in a 1024, or 2048 size.
when i was researching info on creating a live usb, several sites made
comments about using fat, but i do not recall now.
you could run a search of 'live usb' and 'fat' at;
https://ixquick.com/eng/advanced-search.html
to see what it shows.
why ixquick? because they protect your privacy. google does not. see;
https://ixquick.com/eng/protect-privacy.html
a very good read and should convince you to change also.
Also for some reason Brasero now does not burn to usb,
neither does k3b. give them time and it will/should be included. tho
i prefer below methods. 1st and 3rd, for sure. much easier and quicker.
I don't remember how I put the Fedora Iso on the USB.
possibilities;
liveusb-creator - https://fedorahosted.org/liveusb-creator/
unetbootlin - http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/
dd if=/path/to/iso of=/dev/usb bs=1024
Also it seems extremely complicated to create a CentOS usb
installation.
do not use centos, stay with fedora or try scientific linux. both have
liveusb-creator in their packaging.
i created both a fedora live usb and a scientific linux while running
scientific linux. both work great.
I read that the centos people aren't interested in end user but
it seems
that end user or non server computers may not have dvd drives for much
longer, making centos out of reach of end users.
Seems like it's out of reach for now.
so drop centos and run fedora and/or scientific linux. you may well
find that scientific linux is very close to current fedora, with the
exception of some new !whiz! !bang! software.
hth.
--
in a world with out fences, who needs gates.
tc. hago.
g
.
8:44 p.m.
> <snip>
> It made me start thinking about Fedora vs CentOS because of the problems
> I'm experiencing with Drupal 7 and php/Apache in Fedora 18 so here goes.
> </snip>
>
Hey Roger,
Comparing the two is like comparing apples and oranges. The two are
not the same thing.
Fedora is a development system with a short life cycle. It provides
cutting edge applications.
CentOS is an enterprise class system with a 10 year life cycle. It
does not support the most recent versions of software for desktop use.
Thank you to all for the very helpful info.
I have CentOS-6.4-x86_64-minimal.iso downloaded.
My laptop on which I'll do the first install does not have a functioning
dvd drive so it has to be usb install.
I installed Fedora 18 on it this way.
All the info I'm reading says I have to reformat my usb to a fat system,
why? Is there any reason CentOS doesn't use ext formatting?
Also for some reason Brasero now does not burn to usb, I don't remember
how I put the Fedora Iso on the USB.
Also it seems extremely complicated to create a CentOS usb
installation.
http://ihazem.wordpress.com/2012/02/12/installing-centos-from-usb/
I read that the CentOS people aren't interested in end user but it seems
that end user or non server computers may not have dvd drives for much
longer, making CentOS out of reach of end users.
Seems like it's out of reach for now.
Thanks
Roger
9:01 a.m.
Am 16.04.2013 09:41, schrieb Roger:
I believe that the latest Apache updates of some time ago were flawed
or do not correctly interact with php or php
updates were flawed and have not been corrected. I have nothing to back up this assertion
other than the problems
now being experienced and a recommendation to remove php 5.4 and revert to an earlier
version.
Please don't quote me on this, It's what I've noticed, read and considered
this has nothing to do with Apache interacts with PHP
the question is if whatever software is ready for PHP 5.4
hence, in a few months PHP 5.5 will be released and 5.4 is a year old
any software which does not work with PHP 5.4 is questionable or you
need a different distribution like CentOS
you can not use badly maintained web-scripts on a bleeding edge distro
2:01 p.m.
On Sat, 2013-04-20 at 12:40 +1000, Roger wrote:
On 04/20/2013 07:37 AM, Jared K. Smith wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 3:41 AM, Roger <arelem(a)bigpond.com> wrote:
> It made me start thinking about Fedora vs CentOS because of
> the problems I'm experiencing with Drupal 7 and php/Apache
> in Fedora 18 so here goes.
>
>
> It might be helpful to tell us what problems you're encountering
> with PHP, Apache, and Drupal 7 under Fedora 18. I'm running Drupal
> 7 just fine on Fedora 18, and am willing to help you track down any
> issues you're encountering.
>
> --
>
> Jared Smith
>
>
>
Hi Jared
Thank you.
Until a few weeks ago I had no problem with Fedora 18 nor Drupal 7 on
my machines but the problem existed on the server since Drupal 7.21.
I was running a site copy some weeks old on my machines with no
problems.
A few days ago I copied the server site to my machine and now have the
same problems.
Problem1 on the Server:
In Drupal 7, as administrator go to <Structure><Content types><Add
Content type> I get: php Fatal memory error. Tried to allocate
nnnnnnn bytes. --- It is <only> when creating a new content type.
Everything else works as expected. The site has no faults, nothing in
the logs.
Maximum allowable setting for php.ini on the remote server is 128M
Server runs cloudLinux based on Centos 6.n, php 5.3
On my machine/s I have experimented with php memory from 64M to 512M.
At 256M the memory problem goes away temporarily.
Problem2: Apache.
Since the update a couple of weeks ago I get:
The connection was reset error and Error 324
(net::ERR_EMPTY_RESPONSE): The server closed the connection without
sending any data.
Restarting apache does not work, restarting the pc resets apache and
php and the problem goes away for a few minutes.
I suspect php or some interaction between apache and php but have no
expertise in those areas.
There you have it. Complex and puzzling.
----
problem #1 seems like it would occur on any server that is bound by
memory limits insufficient for the application and extensions you are
using. If your cloud server doesn't have enough memory, buy more memory
so that you can give it 256M. Likewise on F18.
problem #2 sounds like the known Chrome 'pre-fetch' issue that has come
up lately (you can Google it). Google is aware of the problem and is
working on a solution if that is the case. Are you aware of which
browser causes this problem? Is it Chrome?
Craig
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9:57 p.m.
On Tue, 2013-04-16 at 17:41 +1000, Roger wrote:
I believe that the latest Apache updates of some time ago were flawed
or
do not correctly interact with php or php updates were flawed and have
not been corrected. I have nothing to back up this assertion other than
the problems now being experienced and a recommendation to remove php
5.4 and revert to an earlier version.
Please don't quote me on this, It's what I've noticed, read and considered.
----
you should figure out if the version of Drupal you are using is
compatible with PHP 5.4 (used by Fedora 18)
----
When I use Ruby on Rails I do not have issues because it uses WEBrick.
----
webrick is only for development mode - not suitable for actually running
an application as it's single threaded.
----
CentOS is a server system but can be used for a stable desktop system
and has been recommended as an alternative.
So what does CentOS 6.n desktop, yum update actually update or does it
leave all the apps like cinnamon desktop, skype, gimp, apache, php,
libreoffice, python, pulseaudio, gnome, Firefox or chrome as they are
first installed, circa Fedora 14ish?
One would think that this would leave significant vulnerability.
If it runs the latest spate of updates then is it not little different
from Fedora 18 but with an old kernel?
----
CentOS does not differentiate server/workstation but only installs
CentOS and the packages you choose to install essentially determine what
the role will be. Throughout the life of say CentOS 6.x, it won't change
much at all - only bug fixes, security updates. Versions of server
daemons rarely change. Sometimes the versions of desktop applications
change but that is still infrequent and typically done out of necessity
(ie, when Firefox obsoleted earlier versions).
----
Further reading implies that the better CentOS installation should be
text based as a server only and that I should run all my work on the
server not Fedora 18.
----
not actually true
----
Further, I have 2 gig memory, intel mb, fast dual cpu, 250g hard
drives
and my desktop fedora 18 uses 55-63 percent memory. I thought this may
be affecting php and apache, hence Drupal, but
The Dell 1520 laptop has the same internals and memory and uses
25percent of the 2 gig memory, same drupal, same Ruby on Rails.
I'm puzzled because after checking ps aux, top, and System Monitor on
both they are very similar yet memory usage is markedly different. I do
not know what I should be looking at to understand the issues and/or fixes.
----
2 GB RAM is not all that much for a desktop system.
----
Is there an app that I can use to track what happens in the browser,
apache, php and Drupal when I start the Drupal site on my machine.
----
top? ps?
----
Off Topic...Does anyone know of a Rails dev who would be able to help
and teach me building a small application?
----
highly unlikely to ever happen. Rails developers are in demand and
always busy if they are any good. Railstutorial.org is where you should
focus. Also, there are some very good books but dead tree versions are
always out of date.
Craig
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5:49 p.m.
On 04/16/2013 03:41 AM, Roger wrote:
This is a call for understanding because of lack of knowledge.
Apologies
for the mix of issues in one message but they all relate to the same
problem.
Firstly,
I've been reading the pro's and con's of RHEL and Fedora and am none the
wiser. It seems to be around cost of service and lack or availability
thereof. The beginning discussion was, I think on stability.
It made me start thinking about Fedora vs CentOS because of the problems
I'm experiencing with Drupal 7 and php/Apache in Fedora 18 so here goes.
I believe that the latest Apache updates of some time ago were flawed or
do not correctly interact with php or php updates were flawed and have
not been corrected. I have nothing to back up this assertion other than
the problems now being experienced and a recommendation to remove php
5.4 and revert to an earlier version.
Please don't quote me on this, It's what I've noticed, read and considered.
When I use Ruby on Rails I do not have issues because it uses WEBrick.
Discussion to date says that CentOS circa 6.n has the Fedora 14 kernel,
is rock solid and gets updates every 6 months approx.
Fedora 18 has kernel updates every few days or weeks at most. Frankly I
enjoy the update cycle. It's interesting to see what gets improved. I
have always run latest Fedora versions and have not experienced the
current raft of problems.
Fedora 18 sudo yum update, updates everything apps, modules, etc that
needs security fixes or improvements.
CentOS is a server system but can be used for a stable desktop system
and has been recommended as an alternative.
So what does CentOS 6.n desktop, yum update actually update or does it
leave all the apps like cinnamon desktop, skype, gimp, apache, php,
libreoffice, python, pulseaudio, gnome, Firefox or chrome as they are
first installed, circa Fedora 14ish?
One would think that this would leave significant vulnerability.
If it runs the latest spate of updates then is it not little different
from Fedora 18 but with an old kernel?
Further reading implies that the better CentOS installation should be
text based as a server only and that I should run all my work on the
server not Fedora 18.
I am now having significant problems with an already built Drupal 7 site
on Fedora 18 after the latest spate of php updates and am perplexed as
to what to do to get a quality stable functioning and stay functioning.
I've got ubuntu 12.10 but it is now so slow that it's not easy to use.
Further, I have 2 gig memory, intel mb, fast dual cpu, 250g hard drives
and my desktop fedora 18 uses 55-63 percent memory. I thought this may
be affecting php and apache, hence Drupal, but
The Dell 1520 laptop has the same internals and memory and uses
25percent of the 2 gig memory, same drupal, same Ruby on Rails.
I'm puzzled because after checking ps aux, top, and System Monitor on
both they are very similar yet memory usage is markedly different. I do
not know what I should be looking at to understand the issues and/or fixes.
Is there an app that I can use to track what happens in the browser,
apache, php and Drupal when I start the Drupal site on my machine.
Help is greatly appreciated
thanks in advance
Roger
Off Topic...Does anyone know of a Rails dev who would be able to help
and teach me building a small application?
Thanks again
Roger
Hey Roger,
Comparing the two is like comparing apples and oranges. The two are not
the same thing.
Fedora is a development system with a short life cycle. It provides
cutting edge applications.
CentOS is an enterprise class system with a 10 year life cycle. It does
not support the most recent versions of software for desktop use.
Your choice should be driven by your needs.
As for security updates, both Fedora and CentOS issue frequent security
updates. No need to worry about vulnerability issues with either system.
<computer consultant>
Determine what functions you require.
Determine what software you need to provide those functions.
Determine what OS is required to support that software.
Determine what hardware is required to support that OS.
</computer consultant>
As for me, I got tired of having to keep up with the frequent version
updates of Fedora. The software that I need runs just fine on CentOS
which I use on my desktop. Your mileage my vary.
--
_
°v°
/(_)\
^ ^ Mark LaPierre
Registered Linux user No #267004
https://linuxcounter.net/
****
4048
days inactive
4053
days old
25 comments
10 participants
participants (10)
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Bill Davidsen -
Craig White -
g -
James Hogarth -
Jared K. Smith -
Louis Lagendijk -
Mark LaPierre -
Ralf Corsepius -
Reindl Harald -
Roger