6:51 p.m.
Hi All,
I have an upcoming appointment with a customer
who wants a number of his old computers
(mostly iMacs) removed from service.
With other computers, if I can remove the
drives, I just remove them and give them
to the customer to hit with a hammer.
But iMacs I will need a glass puller, etc..
So what I usually do when I can not get the
drive out is to boot into a Linux (Fedora)
Live USB and run
# dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sd[x]
Where sd[x] is the drive to be blanked.
This will write 0x00H across every section
of the drive.
Then give it to the computer local charity used
computer store (or the dumpster)
"dev" only has to see the drive. I do not
need or want to be able to mount or read
the drive, just see it. dd is a block
device and does not care what format is.
Do any of you guys know if I will be able
to see the drive on a iMac?
Many thanks,
-T
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Computers are like air conditioners.
They malfunction when you open windows
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
7:22 p.m.
On 10/30/22 7:51 PM, ToddAndMargo via users wrote:
Hi All,
I have an upcoming appointment with a customer
who wants a number of his old computers
(mostly iMacs) removed from service.
With other computers, if I can remove the
drives, I just remove them and give them
to the customer to hit with a hammer.
But iMacs I will need a glass puller, etc..
Hey,
UGH, I wish Apple just let you get access from the back and replace the
drive yourself. Alas, they "need" (read: want) "a trained
professional"
to do it.
So what I usually do when I can not get the
drive out is to boot into a Linux (Fedora)
Live USB and run
# dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sd[x]
Where sd[x] is the drive to be blanked.
This will write 0x00H across every section
of the drive.
Then give it to the computer local charity used
computer store (or the dumpster)
"dev" only has to see the drive. I do not
need or want to be able to mount or read
the drive, just see it. dd is a block
device and does not care what format is.
Do any of you guys know if I will be able
to see the drive on a iMac?
Not an iMac, but I've been able to see the drive of my (Late 2014) Mac
mini in my live environment. Should come right up in the disk utility,
unless something has changed or your client has it configured differently.
LMK if you have any other questions and I'd be willing to test them for you.
Cheers,
-srw
7:40 p.m.
On 10/30/22 17:22, Slade Watkins via users wrote:
On 10/30/22 7:51 PM, ToddAndMargo via users wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I have an upcoming appointment with a customer
> who wants a number of his old computers
> (mostly iMacs) removed from service.
>
> With other computers, if I can remove the
> drives, I just remove them and give them
> to the customer to hit with a hammer.
>
> But iMacs I will need a glass puller, etc..
Hey,
UGH, I wish Apple just let you get access from the back and replace the
drive yourself. Alas, they "need" (read: want) "a trained
professional"
to do it.
And they wear the proper, Apple approved Micky Mouse
ears whilst doing it.
> So what I usually do when I can not get the
> drive out is to boot into a Linux (Fedora)
> Live USB and run
>
> # dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sd[x]
>
>
> Where sd[x] is the drive to be blanked.
> This will write 0x00H across every section
> of the drive.
>
> Then give it to the computer local charity used
> computer store (or the dumpster)
>
> "dev" only has to see the drive. I do not
> need or want to be able to mount or read
> the drive, just see it. dd is a block
> device and does not care what format is.
>
> Do any of you guys know if I will be able
> to see the drive on a iMac?
>
Not an iMac, but I've been able to see the drive of my (Late 2014) Mac
mini in my live environment. Should come right up in the disk utility,
unless something has changed or your client has it configured differently.
LMK if you have any other questions and I'd be willing to test them for you.
Cheers,
-srw
Thank you! Sound like I will be able to
accomplish it.
7:55 p.m.
ToddAndMargo via users composed on 2022-10-30 16:51 (UTC-0700):
iMacs I will need a glass puller, etc..
I use ordinary cheap sticky duct tape. All the tape or pullers do is overpower
magnets that hold the glass in place. Suction cup pullers are cheap and less messy
than cleaning tape residue from glass.
Booting Knoppix & openSUSE on my 2007 iMac is little bigger deal than on an
ordinary PC, mostly just different startup keystrokes instead of F11, F12 or
whatever to boot from USB instead of internal HD. The fun part is never knowing
which Grub from which Linux installation is going to provide the menu for any
particular HD boot. Mac firmware likes vexing Linux users by playing puzzling
games that drive many to use various alternatives to Grub.
Newer Macs can reinstall MacOS directly off the internet after a drive replacement
or wipe. This probably means simply wiping a partition table wouldn't be enough
for real protection against data recovery, so don't bet anything less than a full
wipe is nearly as good as drive removal.
--
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
based on faith, not based on science.
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata
7:59 p.m.
On 10/30/22 17:55, Felix Miata wrote:
ToddAndMargo via users composed on 2022-10-30 16:51 (UTC-0700):
> iMacs I will need a glass puller, etc..
I use ordinary cheap sticky duct tape. All the tape or pullers do is overpower
magnets that hold the glass in place. Suction cup pullers are cheap and less messy
than cleaning tape residue from glass.
Booting Knoppix & openSUSE on my 2007 iMac is little bigger deal than on an
ordinary PC, mostly just different startup keystrokes instead of F11, F12 or
whatever to boot from USB instead of internal HD. The fun part is never knowing
which Grub from which Linux installation is going to provide the menu for any
particular HD boot. Mac firmware likes vexing Linux users by playing puzzling
games that drive many to use various alternatives to Grub.
Newer Macs can reinstall MacOS directly off the internet after a drive replacement
or wipe. This probably means simply wiping a partition table wouldn't be enough
for real protection against data recovery, so don't bet anything less than a full
wipe is nearly as good as drive removal.
I have used that BIOS reinstall several times
on corrupted Macs. It never worked.
9:17 p.m.
On Sun, Oct 30, 2022 at 8:51 PM ToddAndMargo via users <
users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org> wrote:
Hi All,
I have an upcoming appointment with a customer
who wants a number of his old computers
(mostly iMacs) removed from service.
With other computers, if I can remove the
drives, I just remove them and give them
to the customer to hit with a hammer.
But iMacs I will need a glass puller, etc..
So what I usually do when I can not get the
drive out is to boot into a Linux (Fedora)
Live USB and run
# dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sd[x]
An old iMac has been running this (x=a) for over 12 hours here using
thr “rescue” option from an old linux installer CD. I’ve done this with
newer Macs, but just left it running overnight, so not sure how long it
took.
--
George N. White III
9:25 a.m.
On Mon, Oct 31, 2022 at 11:17 PM George N. White III <gnwiii(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
On Sun, Oct 30, 2022 at 8:51 PM ToddAndMargo via users <
users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I have an upcoming appointment with a customer
> who wants a number of his old computers
> (mostly iMacs) removed from service.
>
> [...]
>
> # dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sd[x]
An old iMac has been running this (x=a) for over 12 hours here using
thr “rescue” option from an old linux installer CD. I’ve done this with
newer Macs, but just left it running overnight, so not sure how long it
took.
My dd process ran out of space 24 hours after I started it, on a 250G drive.
--
George N. White III
1:13 p.m.
I usually add a bs=4k or bs=16k or a bs=256k when using dd so the
blocksize is larger. That usually makes it quite a bit faster.
And if you background the dd you can use "vmstat 1" and the bi/bo
columns tell you the actual disk io rates, and you can use that to
reliably estimate.
Default is 512 and does not align with most (all?) underlying physical
devices block sizes and may cause various layers extra work and take
much longer.
On Tue, Nov 1, 2022 at 9:26 AM George N. White III <gnwiii(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Oct 31, 2022 at 11:17 PM George N. White III <gnwiii(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 30, 2022 at 8:51 PM ToddAndMargo via users
<users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> I have an upcoming appointment with a customer
>>> who wants a number of his old computers
>>> (mostly iMacs) removed from service.
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>> # dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sd[x]
>>
>>
>> An old iMac has been running this (x=a) for over 12 hours here using
>> thr “rescue” option from an old linux installer CD. I’ve done this with
>> newer Macs, but just left it running overnight, so not sure how long it took.
>
>
> My dd process ran out of space 24 hours after I started it, on a 250G drive.
>
> --
> George N. White III
>
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6:47 p.m.
On Tue, Nov 1, 2022 at 3:14 PM Roger Heflin <rogerheflin(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I usually add a bs=4k or bs=16k or a bs=256k when using dd so the
blocksize is larger. That usually makes it quite a bit faster.
fdisk shows block size
And if you background the dd you can use "vmstat 1" and the bi/bo
columns tell you the actual disk io rates, and you can use that to
reliably estimate.
Elderly rescue CD’s have busybox, which provides nmeter. Fdisk gives
values for logical and physical block size, but those may be fictional.
% doas fdisk -l /dev/sdb1
Disk /dev/sdb1: 1.91 TiB, 2100425654272 bytes, 4102393856 sectors
Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 4096 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 4096 bytes / 4096 bytes
On the elderly iMac, logical and physical were both 512.
Default is 512 and does not align with most (all?) underlying physical
devices block sizes and may cause various layers extra work and take
much longer.
I have done experiments preparatory to using dd to clone a box of disks.
Modern storage devices are more complicated and network speed means
sneakernet is no longer needed.
--
George N. White III
6:56 p.m.
On 11/1/22 11:13, Roger Heflin wrote:
I usually add a bs=4k or bs=16k or a bs=256k when using dd so the
blocksize is larger. That usually makes it quite a bit faster.
I usually use at least bs=1M.
And if you background the dd you can use "vmstat 1" and the
bi/bo
columns tell you the actual disk io rates, and you can use that to
reliably estimate.
A much more friendly disk speed option is "iostat 5" (the 5 is how many
seconds between updates).
You can also use "status=progress" as a dd option.
Why would you background dd versus using a second terminal tab?
7:01 p.m.
For people that don't want to use a 2nd terminal, and/or are working
in single user mode.
I usually do the =1M also, and the default for dd has always sucked
going back 30+ years.
On Tue, Nov 1, 2022 at 6:56 PM Samuel Sieb <samuel(a)sieb.net> wrote:
>
> On 11/1/22 11:13, Roger Heflin wrote:
> > I usually add a bs=4k or bs=16k or a bs=256k when using dd so the
> > blocksize is larger. That usually makes it quite a bit faster.
>
> I usually use at least bs=1M.
>
> > And if you background the dd you can use "vmstat 1" and the bi/bo
> > columns tell you the actual disk io rates, and you can use that to
> > reliably estimate.
>
> A much more friendly disk speed option is "iostat 5" (the 5 is how many
> seconds between updates).
>
> You can also use "status=progress" as a dd option.
>
> Why would you background dd versus using a second terminal tab?
> _______________________________________________
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8:03 p.m.
When using dd for copying or erasing disks, I typically use bs=1M.
For erasing disks I prefer to use the shred utility - multiple passes
with various patterns and it displays progress.
10:54 p.m.
I second shred. Only issue is that if drive is ssd chances are you
will not overwrite every sector.
Todd, I do not know how old those iMacs are, but some (lampshade) had
the drives on the base while others have it behind the motherboard
behind the monitor. And some also had the drive soldered to the
motherboard.
On Tue, Nov 1, 2022 at 9:04 PM Go Canes <letsgonhlcanes0(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> When using dd for copying or erasing disks, I typically use bs=1M.
>
> For erasing disks I prefer to use the shred utility - multiple passes
> with various patterns and it displays progress.
> _______________________________________________
> users mailing list -- users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> Fedora Code of Conduct:
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12:44 a.m.
On 11/1/22 11:54 PM, Mauricio Tavares wrote:
I second shred. Only issue is that if drive is ssd chances are you
will not overwrite every sector.
Ditto, as well.
Todd, I do not know how old those iMacs are, but some (lampshade) had
the drives on the base while others have it behind the motherboard
behind the monitor. And some also had the drive soldered to the
motherboard.
I didn't even think about that. Apple sticks to the same design for
basically everything for so long I hadn't considered that when I
originally replied to Todd.
-srw
--
I use plain text email and bottom post: https://useplaintext.email
3:01 a.m.
On 11/1/22 22:44, Slade Watkins via users wrote:
On 11/1/22 11:54 PM, Mauricio Tavares wrote:
> I second shred. Only issue is that if drive is ssd chances are you
> will not overwrite every sector.
Ditto, as well.
>
> Todd, I do not know how old those iMacs are, but some (lampshade) had
> the drives on the base while others have it behind the motherboard
> behind the monitor. And some also had the drive soldered to the
> motherboard.
>
I didn't even think about that. Apple sticks to the same design for
basically everything for so long I hadn't considered that when I
originally replied to Todd.
-srw
I met with the customer today. She bought a Mac Books instead
of repairing or replacing her iMac. She plans just to run
the iMac until bricks.
Soldered to the motherboard? Does Micky Mouse know about this?
6:35 a.m.
On Wed, Nov 2, 2022 at 4:01 AM Todd Chester via users
<users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org> wrote:
I met with the customer today. She bought a Mac Books instead
of repairing or replacing her iMac. She plans just to run
the iMac until bricks.
Fun fact: a lot of the old iMac make rather decent Linux boxes.
Soldered to the motherboard? Does Micky Mouse know about this?
If she bought a new Macbook, both memory and Hd are soldered
into board. Disposable appliance it is
8:29 a.m.
On Wed, Nov 2, 2022 at 8:36 AM Mauricio Tavares <raubvogel(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Nov 2, 2022 at 4:01 AM Todd Chester via users
<users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org> wrote:
>
>
> I met with the customer today. She bought a Mac Books instead
> of repairing or replacing her iMac. She plans just to run
> the iMac until bricks.
>
Fun fact: a lot of the old iMac make rather decent Linux boxes.
Yes -- good prices and good screens. I use Fedora on an iMac with a hybrid
drive (SSD+rotating) where SSD has failed. I have also used iMacs with
external
firewire drives after the internal drive failed.
There are also kits that convert an iMac to a monitor.
> Soldered to the motherboard? Does Micky Mouse know about this?
If she bought a new Macbook, both memory and Hd are soldered
into board. Disposable appliance it is
Apple systems mostly have good reliability, so if you are a business it is
cost effective to use them until they break or don't meet requirements
and then buy new ones.
--
George N. White III
10:53 a.m.
hdparm has a secure erase option on it that tells the disk to erase
the disk via a sata command.
I am going to bet it will erase it faster and more completely than using dd.
On Wed, Nov 2, 2022 at 8:30 AM George N. White III <gnwiii(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Wed, Nov 2, 2022 at 8:36 AM Mauricio Tavares <raubvogel(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 2, 2022 at 4:01 AM Todd Chester via users
>> <users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > I met with the customer today. She bought a Mac Books instead
>> > of repairing or replacing her iMac. She plans just to run
>> > the iMac until bricks.
>> >
>> Fun fact: a lot of the old iMac make rather decent Linux boxes.
>
>
> Yes -- good prices and good screens. I use Fedora on an iMac with a hybrid
> drive (SSD+rotating) where SSD has failed. I have also used iMacs with external
> firewire drives after the internal drive failed.
>
> There are also kits that convert an iMac to a monitor.
>
>>
>>
>> > Soldered to the motherboard? Does Micky Mouse know about this?
>>
>> If she bought a new Macbook, both memory and Hd are soldered
>> into board. Disposable appliance it is
>
>
> Apple systems mostly have good reliability, so if you are a business it is
> cost effective to use them until they break or don't meet requirements
> and then buy new ones.
>
> --
> George N. White III
>
> _______________________________________________
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545
days inactive
548
days old
18 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
-
Felix Miata -
George N. White III -
Go Canes -
Mauricio Tavares -
Roger Heflin -
Samuel Sieb -
Slade Watkins -
Todd Chester -
ToddAndMargo