9:21 a.m.
Here is what Fedora leaders need to do to end the java problems on
Fedora. Here are things that need to happen.
1. Contact Sun Inc. and make sure they continue to package the free package:
"jre-6u3-linux-i586-rpm.bin" and any new improvements in the future. We
need to have Fedora docs that explain how to unpack this odd file. It
might be part of the install instructions.
Alternate is to talk Sun Inc. into changing their web page so that
people getting the free software must say yes to their legal stuff. Then
it becomes a plain rpm file installed easy.
2. Next the small wimpy java 1.51 which is of no use to a serious java
user should not be made available to the user.Instead there should be
dummy /usr/java/default/bin/java file which will print out "Java not
installed" if you press java in a Terminal. There needs to be a link
between /etc/alternatives/java to /usr/java/default/bin/java.
3. There is already a link from /etc/alternatives/java to /usr/bin/java.
4. Now a user can want java and should know it has to be installed. But
once installed it will work. This will be new.
Karl Larsen
--
Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI
Linux User
#450462 http://counter.li.org.
PGP 4208 4D6E 595F 22B9 FF1C ECB6 4A3C 2C54 FE23 53A7
8:34 p.m.
On Thursday 03 January 2008, Karl Larsen wrote:
Dennis your another person who says I know nothing about java.
Your
full of self love Dennis. I know more from one day of study than you
will ever know.
Karl, you do realize that you just called a member of the Fedora Engineering
Steering Committee stupid, right? See
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Development/SteeringCommittee
He's the build and release engineer for the One Laptop Per Child (OLPC)
project.
He's a member of the Fedora Project Board for crying out loud! (
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board )
He actually maintains some of the packages that you (and I) use.
Even with your PhD in EE, when it comes to Fedora I know beyond a shadow of a
doubt that Dennis, one of the many capable Fedora leaders, knows a great deal
more about this subject than you.
Up to this point, I've been leaning towards giving you the benefit of the
doubt, but this takes the cake. Not again.
By the way, the jedit installation FAQ explicitly says: "To run the installer,
do whatever you normally do to run a Java jar archive. If this is your first
time, follow these steps:
1. Open a terminal or command interpreter window.
2. Change the current directory to the directory in which you have
stored the jEdit installer file.
3. Run this command: [full path to java application launcher] -jar
jeditXXXinstall.jar"
(FAQ found at http://www.jedit.org/FAQ/installation.html )
NOTE CAREFULLY STEP 3: you have to use the FULL PATH TO THE BINARY. So,
instead of the command line you might think:
/usr/bin/java -jar jedit4.3pre12install.jar (which will not work)
with IcedTea, for instance, you run
/usr/lib/jvm/jre-1.7.0-icedtea/bin/java -jar jedit4.3pre12install.jar
And, guess what: it installs and runs just fine. I just installed it here,
perfectly. It didn't work by not giving the full path to the java binary
(why, I don't know, but it is something the jedit developers are aware of,
since they specifically say to give the full path to the java binary). But I
do know that I have a copy of jedit installed right now without a Sun java
being installed. Would you like to see the screenshots?
Incidentally, thanks for the pointer to jedit; looks like something I might
use.
--
Lamar Owen, KF4MYT
Chief Information Officer
Pisgah Astronomical Research Institute
1 PARI Drive
Rosman, NC 28772
(828)862-5554
www.pari.edu
6:26 p.m.
On Thursday 03 January 2008 09:21:32 am Karl Larsen wrote:
Here is what Fedora leaders need to do to end the java problems
on
Fedora. Here are things that need to happen.
1. Contact Sun Inc. and make sure they continue to package the free
package: "jre-6u3-linux-i586-rpm.bin" and any new improvements in the
future. We need to have Fedora docs that explain how to unpack this odd
file. It might be part of the install instructions.
Fedora will not ever accept a
propietory piece of software so suns java will
never be acceptable. I had jedit working in under 5 minutes using Iced Tea.
without doing anything special.
2. Next the small wimpy java 1.51 which is of no use to a serious
java
user should not be made available to the user.Instead there should be
dummy /usr/java/default/bin/java file which will print out "Java not
installed" if you press java in a Terminal. There needs to be a link
between /etc/alternatives/java to /usr/java/default/bin/java.
this is seriously
dumb we have iced tea now which is Java 7 in an
entirelly free form.
I suggest that you spend more time reading and learning what you are doing
than ranting about things which you clearly are not knowledgeable on
Dennis
11:10 p.m.
On Thu, 2008-01-03 at 21:34 -0500, Lamar Owen wrote:
On Thursday 03 January 2008, Karl Larsen wrote:
> Dennis your another person who says I know nothing about java. Your
> full of self love Dennis. I know more from one day of study than you
> will ever know.
Karl, you do realize that you just called a member of the Fedora Engineering
Steering Committee stupid, right? See
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Development/SteeringCommittee
He's the build and release engineer for the One Laptop Per Child (OLPC)
project.
He's a member of the Fedora Project Board for crying out loud! (
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board )
He actually maintains some of the packages that you (and I) use.
Even with your PhD in EE, when it comes to Fedora I know beyond a shadow of a
doubt that Dennis, one of the many capable Fedora leaders, knows a great deal
more about this subject than you.
Up to this point, I've been leaning towards giving you the benefit of the
doubt, but this takes the cake. Not again.
----
I hate to say this, I really do but it's clear that a complete lack of
knowledge does not stop Karl, it doesn't even give him pause. I have no
reference frame for anyone who behaves similarly.
It's incumbent upon us to point out when he is seriously misleading
others with his uninformed view and it's a painful process.
Craig
11:59 p.m.
On Fri, 2008-01-04 at 12:45 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote:
Lamar Owen wrote:
> On Thursday 03 January 2008, Karl Larsen wrote:
>
>> Dennis your another person who says I know nothing about java. Your
>> full of self love Dennis. I know more from one day of study than you
>> will ever know.
>>
>
> Karl, you do realize that you just called a member of the Fedora Engineering
> Steering Committee stupid, right? See
> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Development/SteeringCommittee
>
> He's the build and release engineer for the One Laptop Per Child (OLPC)
> project.
>
> He's a member of the Fedora Project Board for crying out loud! (
> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board )
>
> He actually maintains some of the packages that you (and I) use.
>
> Even with your PhD in EE, when it comes to Fedora I know beyond a shadow of a
> doubt that Dennis, one of the many capable Fedora leaders, knows a great deal
> more about this subject than you.
>
> Up to this point, I've been leaning towards giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, but this takes the cake. Not again.
>
> By the way, the jedit installation FAQ explicitly says: "To run the installer,
> do whatever you normally do to run a Java jar archive. If this is your first
> time, follow these steps:
>
> 1. Open a terminal or command interpreter window.
> 2. Change the current directory to the directory in which you have
> stored the jEdit installer file.
> 3. Run this command: [full path to java application launcher] -jar
> jeditXXXinstall.jar"
> (FAQ found at http://www.jedit.org/FAQ/installation.html )
>
> NOTE CAREFULLY STEP 3: you have to use the FULL PATH TO THE BINARY. So,
> instead of the command line you might think:
> /usr/bin/java -jar jedit4.3pre12install.jar (which will not work)
>
> with IcedTea, for instance, you run
> /usr/lib/jvm/jre-1.7.0-icedtea/bin/java -jar jedit4.3pre12install.jar
>
> And, guess what: it installs and runs just fine. I just installed it here,
> perfectly. It didn't work by not giving the full path to the java binary
> (why, I don't know, but it is something the jedit developers are aware of,
> since they specifically say to give the full path to the java binary). But I
> do know that I have a copy of jedit installed right now without a Sun java
> being installed. Would you like to see the screenshots?
>
> Incidentally, thanks for the pointer to jedit; looks like something I might
> use.
>
Something happened in my immediate family yesterday and let me say
it is not like me to pick on people like I did. But I was not in sound
mind yesterday. Today I say please forgive me Dennis what I said was
stupid and not correct. The only thing accurate is that what I learned
about java I feel strong about. This again is that with all the java
provided in a Work Station load of F8, which I since learned is not very
much capability, I had no successful install of jedit. It is nice that
others have had success. I can't explain that.
Ah, there's the nub. *Let them explain it*. Sometimes surrender comes
hard, but it is useful at times to just say give it to me between the
eyes. Everyone will come to your aid. Ric
--
================================================
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
Linux user# 44256 Sign up at: http://counter.li.org/
http://www.sourceforge.net/projects/oar
http://www.wayward4now.net <---down4now too
================================================
4:19 p.m.
Scott van Looy wrote:
Today Karl Larsen did spake thusly:
> 2. Next the small wimpy java 1.51 which is of no use to a serious
> java user should not be made available to the user.Instead there
> should be dummy /usr/java/default/bin/java file which will print out
> "Java not installed" if you press java in a Terminal. There needs to
> be a link between /etc/alternatives/java to /usr/java/default/bin/java.
Most "Serious java users" ie corporations are using either 1.4 (as we
are at work) or 1.5, so stop speaking of something you know nothing
about. Hardly anyone is using 1.6 commercially yet. And they're the
people who are "serious users", not people trying to run applets in
their browsers...
Why lie about what I KNOW? I tried to install jedit with the 1.5 on
F8 and it just spit out error messages. Then I bit the bullet and
installed what Sun Inc said is right and jedit works SUPER.
That is fact not you GUESS.
Karl
--
Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI
Linux User
#450462 http://counter.li.org.
PGP 4208 4D6E 595F 22B9 FF1C ECB6 4A3C 2C54 FE23 53A7
11:59 a.m.
New subject: Jedit (was:Re: Java Solution)
On Friday 04 January 2008, Timothy Murphy wrote:
Lamar Owen wrote:
> Incidentally, thanks for the pointer to jedit; looks like something I
> might use.
Why, as a matter of interest?
Is it just an editor, like vi?
It's cross-platform; I can use the same editor on windows and Linux, which is
a good thing. Mostly a very good thing for Windows, as I don't have a really
good currently maintained editor there. I used to run PFE back on the day,
but lost track of where its latest versions are.
--
Lamar Owen
www.pari.edu
11:53 a.m.
Carroll Grigsby wrote:
>
> The food fight continues?
>
> Jim
Makes me wonder if the java lists devote themselves to unending threads about
Fedora. Probably not...
If fedora comes up there at all, they would have simple answers in terms
of distributions that haven't gone out of their way to make using java
difficult (including RHEL).
--
Les Mikesell
lesmikesell(a)gmail.com
9:47 a.m.
Today Karl Larsen did spake thusly:
2. Next the small wimpy java 1.51 which is of no use to a serious
java user
should not be made available to the user.Instead there should be dummy
/usr/java/default/bin/java file which will print out "Java not installed" if
you press java in a Terminal. There needs to be a link between
/etc/alternatives/java to /usr/java/default/bin/java.
Most "Serious java users" ie corporations are using either 1.4 (as we are
at work) or 1.5, so stop speaking of something you know nothing about.
Hardly anyone is using 1.6 commercially yet. And they're the people who
are "serious users", not people trying to run applets in their browsers...
--
Scott van Looy - email:me@ethosuk.org.uk | web:www.ethosuk.org.uk
site:www.freakcity.net - the in place for outcasts since 2003
PGP Fingerprint: 7180 5543 C6C4 747B 7E74 802C 7CF9 E526 44D9 D4A7
-------------------------------------------
|/// /// /// /// WIDE LOAD /// /// /// ///|
-------------------------------------------
It gets late early out there.
-- Yogi Berra
1:29 p.m.
On Friday 04 January 2008, Karl Larsen wrote:
Something happened in my immediate family yesterday and let me
say
it is not like me to pick on people like I did. But I was not in sound
mind yesterday. Today I say please forgive me Dennis what I said was
stupid and not correct.
I'm sorry you had family issues; I know how that is, as I have five children.
But I endeavor to not do e-mail when the situation is that stressful.
The only thing accurate is that what I learned
about java I feel strong about. This again is that with all the java
provided in a Work Station load of F8, which I since learned is not very
much capability, I had no successful install of jedit. It is nice that
others have had success. I can't explain that.
Well, F8 ships two different Java's by default: gcj (the pretty minimal one
that doesn't work with jedit, as you found out) 1.5, and then IcedTea, which
is kindof a Sun Java (read the Iced Tea pages to find out why I say that;
suffice to say that IcedTea, built on the OpenJDK source code from Sun, is
what Sun Java 1.7 is possibly going to look like; in other words, like many
things in Fedora, IcedTea 1.7 is experimental) 1.7.
As John Summerfield said, in another thread, if you want something stable in
that regards, get CentOS 5 and install the very easily installed Sun Java on
it. I have a CentOS 5 box here, and it is rock solid, and it's in
production. I use Fedora for my own laptop, and my own desktop (so I can do
some SecondLife stuff (yes, work stuff, but I can't be more specific due to
NDA)), but that's all. Mission critical servers that I have are still
running CentOS 4, not even 5.
In short, jedit does not work with gcj 1.5, but does with IcedTea 1.7.
--
Lamar Owen
www.pari.edu
7:49 p.m.
--- Karl Larsen <k5di(a)zianet.com> wrote:
Craig White wrote:
> On Thu, 2008-01-03 at 15:26 -0800, Antonio
Olivares wrote:
>
>> --- Les Mikesell <lesmikesell(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Karl Larsen wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> 2. Next the small wimpy java 1.51 which is of
no
>>>>>>
>>> use to a serious
>>>
>>>>>> java user should not be made available to the
>>>>>>
>>> user.Instead there
>>>
>>>>>> should be dummy /usr/java/default/bin/java
file
>>>>>>
>>> which will print out
>>>
>>>>>> "Java not installed" if you press java in a
>>>>>>
>>> Terminal. There needs to
>>>
>>>>>> be a link between /etc/alternatives/java to
>>>>>>
>>> /usr/java/default/bin/java.
>>>
>>>>> Most "Serious java users" ie corporations are
>>>>>
>>> using either 1.4 (as we
>>>
>>>>> are at work) or 1.5, so stop speaking of
>>>>>
>>> something you know nothing
>>>
>>>>> about. Hardly anyone is using 1.6 commercially
>>>>>
>>> yet. And they're the
>>>
>>>>> people who are "serious users", not people
trying
>>>>>
>>> to run applets in
>>>
>>>>> their browsers...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Why lie about what I KNOW? I tried to
install
>>>>
>>> jedit with the 1.5 on
>>>
>>>> F8 and it just spit out error messages. Then I
bit
>>>>
>>> the bullet and
>>>
>>>> installed what Sun Inc said is right and jedit
>>>>
>>> works SUPER.
>>>
>>>> That is fact not you GUESS.
>>>>
>>> You are comparing 1.5 apples to 1.6 oranges.
The
>>> 1.5 you tried was not
>>> Sun java, and jedit probably works just fine
with
>>> Sun Java 1.5 as well
>>> as the 1.6 you installed.
>>>
>>>
>> Know Les, 1.5 apples (one and a half apples)
>> 1.6 oranges (one and six tenths of oranges)
>> What do apples and oranges have to do with java?
>>
>> Jun from Sun cannot even be compatible with
itself.
>> See article below. Fedora is working with Sun on
>> these and other issues. Please be patient :).
>>
> ----
> the 1.5 that Karl (and thus Les by extension) was
the gcj version that
> is bundled by Fedora and it's cloudy if not
completely disconnected from
> the Sun 1.5.x releases and obviously the Sun 1.6
releases. That's what
> Les meant by Apples and Oranges (GCJ Java and Sun
Java)
>
> The fact remains that Karl is one confused puppy
and Les stretches to
> make a point that Karl's confusion represents the
greater confusion as a
> whole which is absurd because Karl represents
wrongfulness and confusion
> across the board, not just wrt java
>
> I am quite certain that 5 days ago, I suggested
that Les be patient but
> that hasn't stopped him from trying to score
ethereal points, and most
> ashamedly, using Karl as proof of how problematic
the situation is.
>
> Craig
>
>
Craig, I am neither confused or wrong. You are
wrong and you
actually call me stupid. I want to say it takes one
to know one.
Karl
Both of you guys are right. You are right in that it
does not work for you(Karl) as you want it, and you do
extra things to make it work for you.
Craig is right in his statement
the 1.5 that Karl (and thus Les by extension) was
the gcj version that
is bundled by Fedora and it's cloudy if not
completely disconnected from
the Sun 1.5.x releases and obviously the Sun 1.6
releases. That's what
Les meant by Apples and Oranges (GCJ Java and Sun
Java)
This namecalling is getting nowhere and only adds
insult to injury. There is no right way/best way to
do things. Can we all just get along?
Like "Coors beer comercials" that use NFL football
coaches commercial Bill Parcells said
"This conversation is going nowhere"
Regards,
Antonio
--
Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI
Linux User
#450462 http://counter.li.org.
PGP 4208 4D6E 595F 22B9 FF1C ECB6 4A3C 2C54 FE23
53A7
--
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
6:26 p.m.
New subject: Jedit
Lamar Owen wrote:
On Friday 04 January 2008, Timothy Murphy wrote:
> Lamar Owen wrote:
>
>> Incidentally, thanks for the pointer to jedit; looks like something I
>> might use.
>>
> Why, as a matter of interest?
> Is it just an editor, like vi?
>
It's cross-platform; I can use the same editor on windows and Linux, which is
a good thing. Mostly a very good thing for Windows, as I don't have a really
good currently maintained editor there. I used to run PFE back on the day,
but lost track of where its latest versions are.
If cross platform is a consideration and you know how to use vi, Vim,
(which is what Fedora and some other distros use instead of vi) is
available for Windoze.
Take a look at http://www.vim.org/ if you have an interest. I've used
it on Linux/Unix/Windoze for years, now.
Really convenient to have the same tool everywhere.
~~R
9:08 a.m.
On Fri, 2008-01-04 at 04:44 -0500, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
On Thu, 3 Jan 2008, Karl Larsen wrote:
> Craig, I am neither confused or wrong. You are wrong and you
> actually call me stupid. I want to say it takes one to know one.
only the truly dense wouldn't have seen that coming.
----
yeah, I called him confused and he 'confused' it with stupid.
I have to wonder if I had called him stupid, would it have left him
confused?
Craig
1:45 p.m.
Lamar Owen wrote:
On Thursday 03 January 2008, Karl Larsen wrote:
> Dennis your another person who says I know nothing about java. Your
> full of self love Dennis. I know more from one day of study than you
> will ever know.
>
Karl, you do realize that you just called a member of the Fedora Engineering
Steering Committee stupid, right? See
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Development/SteeringCommittee
He's the build and release engineer for the One Laptop Per Child (OLPC)
project.
He's a member of the Fedora Project Board for crying out loud! (
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board )
He actually maintains some of the packages that you (and I) use.
Even with your PhD in EE, when it comes to Fedora I know beyond a shadow of a
doubt that Dennis, one of the many capable Fedora leaders, knows a great deal
more about this subject than you.
Up to this point, I've been leaning towards giving you the benefit of the
doubt, but this takes the cake. Not again.
By the way, the jedit installation FAQ explicitly says: "To run the installer,
do whatever you normally do to run a Java jar archive. If this is your first
time, follow these steps:
1. Open a terminal or command interpreter window.
2. Change the current directory to the directory in which you have
stored the jEdit installer file.
3. Run this command: [full path to java application launcher] -jar
jeditXXXinstall.jar"
(FAQ found at http://www.jedit.org/FAQ/installation.html )
NOTE CAREFULLY STEP 3: you have to use the FULL PATH TO THE BINARY. So,
instead of the command line you might think:
/usr/bin/java -jar jedit4.3pre12install.jar (which will not work)
with IcedTea, for instance, you run
/usr/lib/jvm/jre-1.7.0-icedtea/bin/java -jar jedit4.3pre12install.jar
And, guess what: it installs and runs just fine. I just installed it here,
perfectly. It didn't work by not giving the full path to the java binary
(why, I don't know, but it is something the jedit developers are aware of,
since they specifically say to give the full path to the java binary). But I
do know that I have a copy of jedit installed right now without a Sun java
being installed. Would you like to see the screenshots?
Incidentally, thanks for the pointer to jedit; looks like something I might
use.
Something happened in my immediate family yesterday and let me say
it is not like me to pick on people like I did. But I was not in sound
mind yesterday. Today I say please forgive me Dennis what I said was
stupid and not correct. The only thing accurate is that what I learned
about java I feel strong about. This again is that with all the java
provided in a Work Station load of F8, which I since learned is not very
much capability, I had no successful install of jedit. It is nice that
others have had success. I can't explain that.
Karl
--
Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI
Linux User
#450462 http://counter.li.org.
PGP 4208 4D6E 595F 22B9 FF1C ECB6 4A3C 2C54 FE23 53A7
11:05 a.m.
On Friday 04 January 2008 6:33:47 am Jim Cornette wrote:
Robert P. J. Day wrote:
> cheez and crackers -- i go offline for a couple days and a food
> fight breaks out. you kids.
It makes no difference if you stay off line for awhile. When you come
back the situation is the same.
The best policy is to just offer corrections and alternatives. Narrowing
down individuals usually does little good.
What I observed is that most of the problems people had when I joined
the list are well known on cure and prevention. The questions now are
more specialized so the listers have contributed to helping those who
faced previous challenges.
The food fight continues?
Jim
Makes me wonder if the java lists devote themselves to unending threads about
Fedora. Probably not...
-- cmg
6:22 a.m.
Lamar Owen wrote:
Incidentally, thanks for the pointer to jedit; looks like something
I
might use.
Why, as a matter of interest?
Is it just an editor, like vi?
--
Timothy Murphy
e-mail (<80k only): tim /at/ birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie
tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366
s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland
5:33 a.m.
Robert P. J. Day wrote:
cheez and crackers -- i go offline for a couple days and a food
fight breaks out. you kids.
It makes no difference if you stay off line for awhile. When you come
back the situation is the same.
The best policy is to just offer corrections and alternatives. Narrowing
down individuals usually does little good.
What I observed is that most of the problems people had when I joined
the list are well known on cure and prevention. The questions now are
more specialized so the listers have contributed to helping those who
faced previous challenges.
The food fight continues?
Jim
--
If life is a stage, I want some better lighting.
4:02 a.m.
cheez and crackers -- i go offline for a couple days and a food
fight breaks out. you kids.
On Thu, 3 Jan 2008, Lamar Owen wrote:
By the way, the jedit installation FAQ explicitly says: "To run
the
installer, do whatever you normally do to run a Java jar archive. If
this is your first time, follow these steps:
1. Open a terminal or command interpreter window.
2. Change the current directory to the directory in which you have
stored the jEdit installer file.
3. Run this command: [full path to java application launcher] -jar
jeditXXXinstall.jar"
(FAQ found at http://www.jedit.org/FAQ/installation.html )
NOTE CAREFULLY STEP 3: you have to use the FULL PATH TO THE BINARY.
So, instead of the command line you might think: /usr/bin/java -jar
jedit4.3pre12install.jar (which will not work)
with IcedTea, for instance, you run
/usr/lib/jvm/jre-1.7.0-icedtea/bin/java -jar jedit4.3pre12install.jar
hmmmm ... now why would that be? i tried it here with just the
command "java" and it worked fine. but, at the moment, i have the
java alternatives set up thusly:
/usr/bin/java -> /etc/alternatives/java
/etc/alternatives/java -> /usr/lib/jvm/jre-1.7.0-icedtea/bin/java
that "java" command worked equally well with alternatives set to
/usr/lib/jvm/jre-1.6.0-sun/bin/java, but it hung with the alternatives
for java set to /usr/lib/jvm/jre-1.5.0-gcj/bin/java. (whoops, not
hung, just painfully slow and brought up only a blank jedit installer
dialog window. not good.) but 2/3 isn't bad.
so what has all this ruckus been about?
rday
--
p.s. whoops, not a blank install dialog after all, just took forever
to fill in. so all three java alternatives seem to work fine
installing jedit.
========================================================================
Robert P. J. Day
Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry
Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA
Home page: http://crashcourse.ca
Fedora Cookbook: http://crashcourse.ca/wiki/index.php/Fedora_Cookbook
========================================================================
3:44 a.m.
On Thu, 3 Jan 2008, Karl Larsen wrote:
Craig, I am neither confused or wrong. You are wrong and you
actually call me stupid. I want to say it takes one to know one.
only the truly dense wouldn't have seen that coming.
rday
--
========================================================================
Robert P. J. Day
Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry
Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA
Home page: http://crashcourse.ca
Fedora Cookbook: http://crashcourse.ca/wiki/index.php/Fedora_Cookbook
========================================================================
7:35 p.m.
Dennis Gilmore wrote:
On Thursday 03 January 2008 09:21:32 am Karl Larsen wrote:
> Here is what Fedora leaders need to do to end the java problems on
> Fedora. Here are things that need to happen.
>
> 1. Contact Sun Inc. and make sure they continue to package the free
> package: "jre-6u3-linux-i586-rpm.bin" and any new improvements in the
> future. We need to have Fedora docs that explain how to unpack this odd
> file. It might be part of the install instructions.
>
Fedora will not ever accept a propietory piece of software so suns java will
never be acceptable. I had jedit working in under 5 minutes using Iced Tea.
without doing anything special.
> 2. Next the small wimpy java 1.51 which is of no use to a serious java
> user should not be made available to the user.Instead there should be
> dummy /usr/java/default/bin/java file which will print out "Java not
> installed" if you press java in a Terminal. There needs to be a link
> between /etc/alternatives/java to /usr/java/default/bin/java.
>
this is seriously dumb we have iced tea now which is Java 7 in an
entirelly free form.
I suggest that you spend more time reading and learning what you are doing
than ranting about things which you clearly are not knowledgeable on
Dennis
Dennis your another person who says I know nothing about java. Your
full of self love Dennis. I know more from one day of study than you
will ever know.
Karl
--
Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI
Linux User
#450462 http://counter.li.org.
PGP 4208 4D6E 595F 22B9 FF1C ECB6 4A3C 2C54 FE23 53A7
7:30 p.m.
Craig White wrote:
On Thu, 2008-01-03 at 15:26 -0800, Antonio Olivares wrote:
> --- Les Mikesell <lesmikesell(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> Karl Larsen wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>> 2. Next the small wimpy java 1.51 which is of no
>>>>>
>> use to a serious
>>
>>>>> java user should not be made available to the
>>>>>
>> user.Instead there
>>
>>>>> should be dummy /usr/java/default/bin/java file
>>>>>
>> which will print out
>>
>>>>> "Java not installed" if you press java in a
>>>>>
>> Terminal. There needs to
>>
>>>>> be a link between /etc/alternatives/java to
>>>>>
>> /usr/java/default/bin/java.
>>
>>>> Most "Serious java users" ie corporations are
>>>>
>> using either 1.4 (as we
>>
>>>> are at work) or 1.5, so stop speaking of
>>>>
>> something you know nothing
>>
>>>> about. Hardly anyone is using 1.6 commercially
>>>>
>> yet. And they're the
>>
>>>> people who are "serious users", not people trying
>>>>
>> to run applets in
>>
>>>> their browsers...
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Why lie about what I KNOW? I tried to install
>>>
>> jedit with the 1.5 on
>>
>>> F8 and it just spit out error messages. Then I bit
>>>
>> the bullet and
>>
>>> installed what Sun Inc said is right and jedit
>>>
>> works SUPER.
>>
>>> That is fact not you GUESS.
>>>
>> You are comparing 1.5 apples to 1.6 oranges. The
>> 1.5 you tried was not
>> Sun java, and jedit probably works just fine with
>> Sun Java 1.5 as well
>> as the 1.6 you installed.
>>
>>
> Know Les, 1.5 apples (one and a half apples)
> 1.6 oranges (one and six tenths of oranges)
> What do apples and oranges have to do with java?
>
> Jun from Sun cannot even be compatible with itself.
> See article below. Fedora is working with Sun on
> these and other issues. Please be patient :).
>
----
the 1.5 that Karl (and thus Les by extension) was the gcj version that
is bundled by Fedora and it's cloudy if not completely disconnected from
the Sun 1.5.x releases and obviously the Sun 1.6 releases. That's what
Les meant by Apples and Oranges (GCJ Java and Sun Java)
The fact remains that Karl is one confused puppy and Les stretches to
make a point that Karl's confusion represents the greater confusion as a
whole which is absurd because Karl represents wrongfulness and confusion
across the board, not just wrt java
I am quite certain that 5 days ago, I suggested that Les be patient but
that hasn't stopped him from trying to score ethereal points, and most
ashamedly, using Karl as proof of how problematic the situation is.
Craig
Craig, I am neither confused or wrong. You are wrong and you
actually call me stupid. I want to say it takes one to know one.
Karl
--
Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI
Linux User
#450462 http://counter.li.org.
PGP 4208 4D6E 595F 22B9 FF1C ECB6 4A3C 2C54 FE23 53A7
6:05 p.m.
On Thu, 2008-01-03 at 15:26 -0800, Antonio Olivares wrote:
Compare Java to COBOL
http://www.infoworld.com/article/07/12/28/52FE-underreported-java_1.html
That article, and other messages in this thread, are certainly right
that it's confusing when there's a plethora of *different* Javas around,
of which you need the right one, and they're not all completely
compatible with each other.
Sun could definitely improve their website. Users get stuck with a
generic "install Java" or install the "Java plugin" instruction
somewhere, but when they go the Java/Sun website, there's nothing that
is obviously exactly what they need. And depending how you arrived at
their website, you get more and more confusing pages. The hapless
user's got to figure out if its JRE, J2SE, or something else with yet
another name, that they really needed to get. Never mind actually
getting it to work, post-installation.
--
(This computer runs FC7, my others run FC4, FC5 & FC6, in case that's
important to the thread.)
Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored.
I read messages from the public lists.
6:02 p.m.
--- Craig White <craig(a)tobyhouse.com> wrote:
On Thu, 2008-01-03 at 15:26 -0800, Antonio Olivares
wrote:
> --- Les Mikesell <lesmikesell(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Karl Larsen wrote:
> >
> > >>> 2. Next the small wimpy java 1.51 which is
of no
> > use to a serious
> > >>> java user should not be made available to
the
> > user.Instead there
> > >>> should be dummy /usr/java/default/bin/java
file
> > which will print out
> > >>> "Java not installed" if you press java in a
> > Terminal. There needs to
> > >>> be a link between /etc/alternatives/java to
> > /usr/java/default/bin/java.
> > >>
> > >> Most "Serious java users" ie corporations are
> > using either 1.4 (as we
> > >> are at work) or 1.5, so stop speaking of
> > something you know nothing
> > >> about. Hardly anyone is using 1.6
commercially
> > yet. And they're the
> > >> people who are "serious users", not people
trying
> > to run applets in
> > >> their browsers...
> > >>
> > > Why lie about what I KNOW? I tried to
install
> > jedit with the 1.5 on
> > > F8 and it just spit out error messages. Then I
bit
> > the bullet and
> > > installed what Sun Inc said is right and jedit
> > works SUPER.
> > >
> > > That is fact not you GUESS.
> >
> > You are comparing 1.5 apples to 1.6 oranges.
The
> > 1.5 you tried was not
> > Sun java, and jedit probably works just fine
with
> > Sun Java 1.5 as well
> > as the 1.6 you installed.
> >
> Know Les, 1.5 apples (one and a half apples)
> 1.6 oranges (one and six tenths of oranges)
> What do apples and oranges have to do with java?
>
> Jun from Sun cannot even be compatible with
itself.
> See article below. Fedora is working with Sun on
> these and other issues. Please be patient :).
----
the 1.5 that Karl (and thus Les by extension) was
the gcj version that
is bundled by Fedora and it's cloudy if not
completely disconnected from
the Sun 1.5.x releases and obviously the Sun 1.6
releases. That's what
Les meant by Apples and Oranges (GCJ Java and Sun
Java)
The fact remains that Karl is one confused puppy and
Les stretches to
make a point that Karl's confusion represents the
greater confusion as a
whole which is absurd because Karl represents
wrongfulness and confusion
across the board, not just wrt java
I am quite certain that 5 days ago, I suggested that
Les be patient but
that hasn't stopped him from trying to score
ethereal points, and most
ashamedly, using Karl as proof of how problematic
the situation is.
Craig
--
Craig,
I am following some links on the java thread(s) and
Nigel's Jigsaw page does not work, there official
sun's java is needed :(
However, using sun's TestJava VM, I get to see the
following:
Test JavaVM
http://www.java.com/en/download/help/testvm.xml
You are using a version of the JRE that is not
designed
for general consumer use. You may want to update your
JRE.
Your Java configuration is:
Vendor: Sun Microsystems InC.
Version: 1.7.0
Operating System: Linux
Applet works with IcedTea :)
Euclid's Elements Geometry Applet:
http://aleph0.clarku.edu/~djoyce/java/elements/usingApplet.html
Applet works with IcedTea :)
David Eck's xFunctions Applet:
http://math.hws.edu/xFunctions/
I am sure I can find others, but two out of three is
better than nothing :). Before, if one wanted JRE/JDK
we had to get java directly from Sun or Jpackage.
Now, it is a matter of time and it will get there :)
Regards,
Antonio
____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
5:42 p.m.
Craig White wrote:
On Thu, 2008-01-03 at 17:02 -0600, Les Mikesell wrote:
> Craig White wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 2008-01-03 at 16:40 -0600, Les Mikesell wrote:
>>
>>> Karl Larsen wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> 2. Next the small wimpy java 1.51 which is of no use to a serious
>>>>>> java user should not be made available to the user.Instead there
>>>>>> should be dummy /usr/java/default/bin/java file which will print
out
>>>>>> "Java not installed" if you press java in a Terminal.
There needs to
>>>>>> be a link between /etc/alternatives/java to
/usr/java/default/bin/java.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Most "Serious java users" ie corporations are using either
1.4 (as we
>>>>> are at work) or 1.5, so stop speaking of something you know nothing
>>>>> about. Hardly anyone is using 1.6 commercially yet. And they're
the
>>>>> people who are "serious users", not people trying to run
applets in
>>>>> their browsers...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Why lie about what I KNOW? I tried to install jedit with the 1.5 on
>>>> F8 and it just spit out error messages. Then I bit the bullet and
>>>> installed what Sun Inc said is right and jedit works SUPER.
>>>>
>>>> That is fact not you GUESS.
>>>>
>>> You are comparing 1.5 apples to 1.6 oranges. The 1.5 you tried was not
>>> Sun java, and jedit probably works just fine with Sun Java 1.5 as well
>>> as the 1.6 you installed.
>>>
>> ----
>> what was the point you were trying make using Karl as proof? LOL!!!
>>
> That this stuff should work as shipped.
>
----
are you saying that jedit doesn't work with shipped version of gcj ?
Craig
YES!
--
Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI
Linux User
#450462 http://counter.li.org.
PGP 4208 4D6E 595F 22B9 FF1C ECB6 4A3C 2C54 FE23 53A7
5:42 p.m.
On Thu, 2008-01-03 at 15:26 -0800, Antonio Olivares wrote:
--- Les Mikesell <lesmikesell(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> Karl Larsen wrote:
>
> >>> 2. Next the small wimpy java 1.51 which is of no
> use to a serious
> >>> java user should not be made available to the
> user.Instead there
> >>> should be dummy /usr/java/default/bin/java file
> which will print out
> >>> "Java not installed" if you press java in a
> Terminal. There needs to
> >>> be a link between /etc/alternatives/java to
> /usr/java/default/bin/java.
> >>
> >> Most "Serious java users" ie corporations are
> using either 1.4 (as we
> >> are at work) or 1.5, so stop speaking of
> something you know nothing
> >> about. Hardly anyone is using 1.6 commercially
> yet. And they're the
> >> people who are "serious users", not people trying
> to run applets in
> >> their browsers...
> >>
> > Why lie about what I KNOW? I tried to install
> jedit with the 1.5 on
> > F8 and it just spit out error messages. Then I bit
> the bullet and
> > installed what Sun Inc said is right and jedit
> works SUPER.
> >
> > That is fact not you GUESS.
>
> You are comparing 1.5 apples to 1.6 oranges. The
> 1.5 you tried was not
> Sun java, and jedit probably works just fine with
> Sun Java 1.5 as well
> as the 1.6 you installed.
>
Know Les, 1.5 apples (one and a half apples)
1.6 oranges (one and six tenths of oranges)
What do apples and oranges have to do with java?
Jun from Sun cannot even be compatible with itself.
See article below. Fedora is working with Sun on
these and other issues. Please be patient :).
----
the 1.5 that Karl (and thus Les by extension) was the gcj version that
is bundled by Fedora and it's cloudy if not completely disconnected from
the Sun 1.5.x releases and obviously the Sun 1.6 releases. That's what
Les meant by Apples and Oranges (GCJ Java and Sun Java)
The fact remains that Karl is one confused puppy and Les stretches to
make a point that Karl's confusion represents the greater confusion as a
whole which is absurd because Karl represents wrongfulness and confusion
across the board, not just wrt java
I am quite certain that 5 days ago, I suggested that Les be patient but
that hasn't stopped him from trying to score ethereal points, and most
ashamedly, using Karl as proof of how problematic the situation is.
Craig
5:26 p.m.
--- Les Mikesell <lesmikesell(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Karl Larsen wrote:
>>> 2. Next the small wimpy java 1.51 which is of no
use to a serious
>>> java user should not be made available to the
user.Instead there
>>> should be dummy /usr/java/default/bin/java file
which will print out
>>> "Java not installed" if you press java in a
Terminal. There needs to
>>> be a link between /etc/alternatives/java to
/usr/java/default/bin/java.
>>
>> Most "Serious java users" ie corporations are
using either 1.4 (as we
>> are at work) or 1.5, so stop speaking of
something you know nothing
>> about. Hardly anyone is using 1.6 commercially
yet. And they're the
>> people who are "serious users", not people trying
to run applets in
>> their browsers...
>>
> Why lie about what I KNOW? I tried to install
jedit with the 1.5 on
> F8 and it just spit out error messages. Then I bit
the bullet and
> installed what Sun Inc said is right and jedit
works SUPER.
>
> That is fact not you GUESS.
You are comparing 1.5 apples to 1.6 oranges. The
1.5 you tried was not
Sun java, and jedit probably works just fine with
Sun Java 1.5 as well
as the 1.6 you installed.
Know Les, 1.5 apples (one and a half apples)
1.6 oranges (one and six tenths of oranges)
What do apples and oranges have to do with java?
Jun from Sun cannot even be compatible with itself.
See article below. Fedora is working with Sun on
these and other issues. Please be patient :).
I am constantly reminded of:
Why bite that hand that feeds you?
We cannot have all of the cake and eat it too.
--
Les Mikesell
lesmikesell(a)gmail.com
--
Compare Java to COBOL
http://www.infoworld.com/article/07/12/28/52FE-underreported-java_1.html
Regards,
Antonio
____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
5:05 p.m.
On Thu, 2008-01-03 at 17:02 -0600, Les Mikesell wrote:
Craig White wrote:
> On Thu, 2008-01-03 at 16:40 -0600, Les Mikesell wrote:
>> Karl Larsen wrote:
>>
>>>>> 2. Next the small wimpy java 1.51 which is of no use to a serious
>>>>> java user should not be made available to the user.Instead there
>>>>> should be dummy /usr/java/default/bin/java file which will print out
>>>>> "Java not installed" if you press java in a Terminal.
There needs to
>>>>> be a link between /etc/alternatives/java to
/usr/java/default/bin/java.
>>>> Most "Serious java users" ie corporations are using either 1.4
(as we
>>>> are at work) or 1.5, so stop speaking of something you know nothing
>>>> about. Hardly anyone is using 1.6 commercially yet. And they're the
>>>> people who are "serious users", not people trying to run
applets in
>>>> their browsers...
>>>>
>>> Why lie about what I KNOW? I tried to install jedit with the 1.5 on
>>> F8 and it just spit out error messages. Then I bit the bullet and
>>> installed what Sun Inc said is right and jedit works SUPER.
>>>
>>> That is fact not you GUESS.
>> You are comparing 1.5 apples to 1.6 oranges. The 1.5 you tried was not
>> Sun java, and jedit probably works just fine with Sun Java 1.5 as well
>> as the 1.6 you installed.
> ----
> what was the point you were trying make using Karl as proof? LOL!!!
That this stuff should work as shipped.
----
are you saying that jedit doesn't work with shipped version of gcj ?
Craig
5:02 p.m.
Craig White wrote:
On Thu, 2008-01-03 at 16:40 -0600, Les Mikesell wrote:
> Karl Larsen wrote:
>
>>>> 2. Next the small wimpy java 1.51 which is of no use to a serious
>>>> java user should not be made available to the user.Instead there
>>>> should be dummy /usr/java/default/bin/java file which will print out
>>>> "Java not installed" if you press java in a Terminal. There
needs to
>>>> be a link between /etc/alternatives/java to /usr/java/default/bin/java.
>>> Most "Serious java users" ie corporations are using either 1.4 (as
we
>>> are at work) or 1.5, so stop speaking of something you know nothing
>>> about. Hardly anyone is using 1.6 commercially yet. And they're the
>>> people who are "serious users", not people trying to run applets in
>>> their browsers...
>>>
>> Why lie about what I KNOW? I tried to install jedit with the 1.5 on
>> F8 and it just spit out error messages. Then I bit the bullet and
>> installed what Sun Inc said is right and jedit works SUPER.
>>
>> That is fact not you GUESS.
> You are comparing 1.5 apples to 1.6 oranges. The 1.5 you tried was not
> Sun java, and jedit probably works just fine with Sun Java 1.5 as well
> as the 1.6 you installed.
----
what was the point you were trying make using Karl as proof? LOL!!!
That this stuff should work as shipped.
--
Les Mikesell
lesmikesell(a)gmail.com
4:42 p.m.
On Thu, 2008-01-03 at 16:40 -0600, Les Mikesell wrote:
Karl Larsen wrote:
>>> 2. Next the small wimpy java 1.51 which is of no use to a serious
>>> java user should not be made available to the user.Instead there
>>> should be dummy /usr/java/default/bin/java file which will print out
>>> "Java not installed" if you press java in a Terminal. There needs
to
>>> be a link between /etc/alternatives/java to /usr/java/default/bin/java.
>>
>> Most "Serious java users" ie corporations are using either 1.4 (as we
>> are at work) or 1.5, so stop speaking of something you know nothing
>> about. Hardly anyone is using 1.6 commercially yet. And they're the
>> people who are "serious users", not people trying to run applets in
>> their browsers...
>>
> Why lie about what I KNOW? I tried to install jedit with the 1.5 on
> F8 and it just spit out error messages. Then I bit the bullet and
> installed what Sun Inc said is right and jedit works SUPER.
>
> That is fact not you GUESS.
You are comparing 1.5 apples to 1.6 oranges. The 1.5 you tried was not
Sun java, and jedit probably works just fine with Sun Java 1.5 as well
as the 1.6 you installed.
----
what was the point you were trying make using Karl as proof? LOL!!!
Craig
4:40 p.m.
Karl Larsen wrote:
>> 2. Next the small wimpy java 1.51 which is of no use to a
serious
>> java user should not be made available to the user.Instead there
>> should be dummy /usr/java/default/bin/java file which will print out
>> "Java not installed" if you press java in a Terminal. There needs to
>> be a link between /etc/alternatives/java to /usr/java/default/bin/java.
>
> Most "Serious java users" ie corporations are using either 1.4 (as we
> are at work) or 1.5, so stop speaking of something you know nothing
> about. Hardly anyone is using 1.6 commercially yet. And they're the
> people who are "serious users", not people trying to run applets in
> their browsers...
>
Why lie about what I KNOW? I tried to install jedit with the 1.5 on
F8 and it just spit out error messages. Then I bit the bullet and
installed what Sun Inc said is right and jedit works SUPER.
That is fact not you GUESS.
You are comparing 1.5 apples to 1.6 oranges. The 1.5 you tried was not
Sun java, and jedit probably works just fine with Sun Java 1.5 as well
as the 1.6 you installed.
--
Les Mikesell
lesmikesell(a)gmail.com
5988
days inactive
5990
days old
29 comments
15 participants
participants (15)
-
Antonio Olivares -
Carroll Grigsby -
Craig White -
Craig White -
Dennis Gilmore -
Jim Cornette -
Karl Larsen -
Lamar Owen -
Les Mikesell -
Ric Moore -
Richard England -
Robert P. J. Day -
Scott van Looy -
Tim -
Timothy Murphy