6:05 p.m.
On KDE I've got three keyboard layouts installed- US English, Dvorak,
and Hebrew. I go nuts switching over to US English everytime that I
need to perform a keyboard shortcut. How can I have the keyboard
shortcuts work as if the keyboard is always qwerty? I'd like to
configure it at the X level rather than at the KDE level, but I'd
accept any solution that works. Thanks in advance.
Dotan Cohen
http://dotancohen.com/eng/movies.php
http://what-is-what.com/what_is/skype.html
11:28 p.m.
On 12/27/06, Dotan Cohen <dotancohen(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On KDE I've got three keyboard layouts installed- US English, Dvorak,
and Hebrew. I go nuts switching over to US English everytime that I
need to perform a keyboard shortcut. How can I have the keyboard
shortcuts work as if the keyboard is always qwerty? I'd like to
configure it at the X level rather than at the KDE level, but I'd
accept any solution that works. Thanks in advance.
What do you mean by keyboard shortcuts. Can you give an example?
I know for emacs, doing ctrl-x ctrl-s and ctrl-x ctrl-c is really awkword in
dvorak, so I've remaped ctrl-x to ctrl-o, ctrl-s to ctrl-e, and ctrl-c to
ctrl-u. This way I can save and quit much easier. This is done by placing
the following in my .emacs file:
(global-set-key (kbd "C-o") ctl-x-map)
(global-set-key (kbd "C-x C-e") (lookup-key global-map (kbd "C-x
C-s")))
(global-set-key (kbd "C-x C-u") (lookup-key global-map (kbd "C-x
C-c")))
You're probably looking for something much more general, but if you use
emacs, this quick fix will save a lot of finger-pain.
--
Dylan
Type faster. Use Dvorak:
http://dvzine.org
4:03 a.m.
On 28/12/06, Dylan Semler <dylan.semler(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On 12/27/06, Dotan Cohen <dotancohen(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On KDE I've got three keyboard layouts installed- US English, Dvorak,
> and Hebrew. I go nuts switching over to US English everytime that I
> need to perform a keyboard shortcut. How can I have the keyboard
> shortcuts work as if the keyboard is always qwerty? I'd like to
> configure it at the X level rather than at the KDE level, but I'd
> accept any solution that works. Thanks in advance.
What do you mean by keyboard shortcuts. Can you give an example?
I know for emacs, doing ctrl-x ctrl-s and ctrl-x ctrl-c is really awkword
in dvorak, so I've remaped ctrl-x to ctrl-o, ctrl-s to ctrl-e, and ctrl-c to
ctrl-u. This way I can save and quit much easier. This is done by placing
the following in my .emacs file:
(global-set-key (kbd "C-o") ctl-x-map)
(global-set-key (kbd "C-x C-e") (lookup-key global-map (kbd "C-x
C-s")))
(global-set-key (kbd "C-x C-u") (lookup-key global-map (kbd "C-x
C-c")))
You're probably looking for something much more general, but if you use
emacs, this quick fix will save a lot of finger-pain.
In qwerty, I use Ctrl-V to paste in every application. In Hebrew
layout, I must switch first to English layout, Ctrl-V, then swtich
back to Hebrew layout in order to paste. I'd like Ctrl-×” (which is on
the same key as V) to paste.
Dotan Cohen
http://lyricslist.com/lyrics/lyrics/107/19/adams_bryan/you_want_it_you_go...
http://what-is-what.com/what_is/protocol.html
1:13 a.m.
On Thu, 2006-12-28 at 00:28 -0500, Dylan Semler wrote:
I know for emacs, doing ctrl-x ctrl-s and ctrl-x ctrl-c is really
awkword in dvorak
For those who find some key combinations awkward, I'll point out that
when you're taught to type properly, you find out that two-key
combinations are supposed to be done with two hands. One hand does the
qualifier, the other does the key.
i.e. For qwerty, you'd do right hand CTRL key, left hand C key.
You're not supposed to do them one-handed, no keyboard is really suited
for that. That's why it's painful to do. It's also one of the reasons
that we have shift and caps lock keys.
1:28 a.m.
Tim wrote:
On Thu, 2006-12-28 at 00:28 -0500, Dylan Semler wrote:
> I know for emacs, doing ctrl-x ctrl-s and ctrl-x ctrl-c is really
> awkword in dvorak
For those who find some key combinations awkward, I'll point out that
when you're taught to type properly, you find out that two-key
combinations are supposed to be done with two hands. One hand does the
qualifier, the other does the key.
i.e. For qwerty, you'd do right hand CTRL key, left hand C key.
Funny, I've been doing Ctrl+C with my left hand only for the past 30 years
and it never seemed to be "improper". What seems "improper" to me is
to
move my right hand off its "home" keys and use my right index finger to push
my left index finger out of the way since it is hovering over the C when my
pinky finger of my left hand moves to the Ctrl key.
You're not supposed to do them one-handed, no keyboard is really
suited
for that. That's why it's painful to do. It's also one of the reasons
that we have shift and caps lock keys.
I always thought people were supposed to do things in the way that is the
most comfortable or least painful.
1:45 a.m.
Tim:
> For those who find some key combinations awkward, I'll point
out that
> when you're taught to type properly, you find out that two-key
> combinations are supposed to be done with two hands. One hand does the
> qualifier, the other does the key.
>
> i.e. For qwerty, you'd do right hand CTRL key, left hand C key.
Ed Greshko:
Funny, I've been doing Ctrl+C with my left hand only for the past
30 years
and it never seemed to be "improper".
I can do it both ways. One-handed typing requires some painful
contortions. Even worse, is that it's mostly with my left hand, and I'm
right-handed. Though I usually end up doing it that way, out of bad
habit. But if I'm doing a lot of repetive cutting and pasting, where
search and replace isn't suitable, I do use both hands for CTRL + C and
CTRL + V typing.
What seems "improper" to me is to move my right hand off
its "home"
keys and use my right index finger to push my left index finger out of
the way since it is hovering over the C when my pinky finger of my
left hand moves to the Ctrl key.
I really can't visualise what you mean here. You're using one hand to
manipulate the fingers of the other, so you can type CTRL C with the
left hand?
> You're not supposed to do them one-handed, no keyboard is
really suited
> for that. That's why it's painful to do. It's also one of the reasons
> that we have shift and caps lock keys.
I always thought people were supposed to do things in the way that is
the
most comfortable or least painful.
The point is that the keyboards were designed to be used in a way, which
is relatively easy to do, even if not brilliantly efficient. When you
operate against the design, which is possible, it can be akward and
painful.
To anyone who's ever thought that a keyboard was designed as a torture
device, they're probably correct, but they are quite easy to use if you
learn how. Proper touch typing is easier than hunt and peck. It's
faster, and less painful. It's worth it if you use keyboards a lot.
It's also worth finding a decent keyboard, many are just plain crap.
1:49 a.m.
On 29/12/06, Tim <ignored_mailbox(a)yahoo.com.au> wrote:
For those who find some key combinations awkward, I'll point out that
when you're taught to type properly, you find out that two-key
combinations are supposed to be done with two hands. One hand does the
qualifier, the other does the key.
i.e. For qwerty, you'd do right hand CTRL key, left hand C key.
You're not supposed to do them one-handed, no keyboard is really suited
for that. That's why it's painful to do. It's also one of the reasons
that we have shift and caps lock keys.
Thank you for the tip, Tim, but please don't ruin this thread. The
Fedora list has a [great||horrible] tendancy to take important subject
off topic. I need to reconfigure my shortcuts, and I don't want this
thread turnng into a one-hand vs. two-hand typing flame war.
Please, if anybody can assist me in reconfiguring the keyboard
shortcuts I would most appreciate it. Thanks.
Dotan Cohen
http://lyricslist.com/lyrics/lyrics/128/108/carey_mariah/daydream.php
http://what-is-what.com/what_is/webpage.html
2:37 a.m.
On Fri, 2006-12-29 at 09:49 +0200, Dotan Cohen wrote:
Please, if anybody can assist me in reconfiguring the keyboard
shortcuts I would most appreciate it. Thanks.
I would imagine you'd want to be paying to the raw scan codes (the
positions of the keys being pressed), rather than what purpose someone
wants to give to certain keys (e.g. that it's the letter A).
The other thing that springs to mind, is what about making use of the
function keys? Many things ignore them, and you've usually got an array
of spare keys about the keyboard you might use directly for cut and
paste.
I'd considered using them for something like typing proper punctuation
(i.e. symbols there weren't already keys for, and/or had horrible key
sequences to type), but only looked briefly at it.
4:24 a.m.
On 29/12/06, Tim <ignored_mailbox(a)yahoo.com.au> wrote:
On Fri, 2006-12-29 at 09:49 +0200, Dotan Cohen wrote:
> Please, if anybody can assist me in reconfiguring the keyboard
> shortcuts I would most appreciate it. Thanks.
I would imagine you'd want to be paying to the raw scan codes (the
positions of the keys being pressed), rather than what purpose someone
wants to give to certain keys (e.g. that it's the letter A).
Yes, that's quite what I'd like to do. I'm not sure if KDE will look
at the raw scan codes, however. At least, I cannot find any
documentation on how to do this.
The other thing that springs to mind, is what about making use of
the
function keys? Many things ignore them, and you've usually got an array
of spare keys about the keyboard you might use directly for cut and
paste.
I actually do make heavy use of the function keys, usually for what
whatever app I'm using has them set to. Opera, for instance, makes
wonderful use of them.
Thanks.
Dotan Cohen
http://technology-sleuth.com/technical_answer/what_is_a_firewall.html
http://lyricslist.com/lyrics/artist_albums/653/frukwan.php
6:25 a.m.
On Fri, 29 Dec 2006, Tim wrote:
Tim:
>> For those who find some key combinations awkward, I'll point out that
>> when you're taught to type properly, you find out that two-key
>> combinations are supposed to be done with two hands. One hand does the
>> qualifier, the other does the key.
>>
>> i.e. For qwerty, you'd do right hand CTRL key, left hand C key.
Ed Greshko:
> Funny, I've been doing Ctrl+C with my left hand only for the past 30 years
> and it never seemed to be "improper".
I can do it both ways. One-handed typing requires some painful
contortions. Even worse, is that it's mostly with my left hand, and I'm
right-handed. Though I usually end up doing it that way, out of bad
habit. But if I'm doing a lot of repetive cutting and pasting, where
search and replace isn't suitable, I do use both hands for CTRL + C and
CTRL + V typing.
> What seems "improper" to me is to move my right hand off its
"home"
> keys and use my right index finger to push my left index finger out of
> the way since it is hovering over the C when my pinky finger of my
> left hand moves to the Ctrl key.
I really can't visualise what you mean here. You're using one hand to
manipulate the fingers of the other, so you can type CTRL C with the
left hand?
I think Ed means left-hand CTRL key, right-hand C key. That's not what
Tim suggested and it's not what I'd think of for a two-handed combination.
I can't resist pointing out that the Microsoft "innovation" of putting the
left control key to the left of the space bar is the devil's inspiration.
Long-time Unix hands and early PC users will remember keyboards with the
CTRL key next to the A, where God intended it to be. (You can still get
them from Sun, and I always swap my control and caps-lock keys in
Prefereces -> Keyboard -> Layout Options.
That makes one-handed control-key combos a *lot* easier, and it makes
using Emacs a dramatically different experience than otherwise.
>> You're not supposed to do them one-handed, no keyboard is really suited
>> for that. That's why it's painful to do. It's also one of the
reasons
>> that we have shift and caps lock keys.
> I always thought people were supposed to do things in the way that is the
> most comfortable or least painful.
The point is that the keyboards were designed to be used in a way, which
is relatively easy to do, even if not brilliantly efficient. When you
operate against the design, which is possible, it can be akward and
painful.
To anyone who's ever thought that a keyboard was designed as a torture
device, they're probably correct, but they are quite easy to use if you
learn how. Proper touch typing is easier than hunt and peck. It's
faster, and less painful. It's worth it if you use keyboards a lot.
It's also worth finding a decent keyboard, many are just plain crap.
--
Matthew Saltzman
Clemson University Math Sciences
mjs AT clemson DOT edu
http://www.math.clemson.edu/~mjs
7:16 a.m.
New subject: qwerty layout shortcuts - drifting away from original topic
I've modified the subject line, a bit. The original poster still hasn't
found their answer.
On Fri, 2006-12-29 at 07:25 -0500, Matthew Saltzman wrote:
I think Ed means left-hand CTRL key, right-hand C key. That's
not
what Tim suggested and it's not what I'd think of for a two-handed
combination.
Okay, I can see that, now. It was just the comment about pushing a
finger out of the way that threw me.
Yes, I've done the same thing. When doing numerous cut and pastes, and
little else, I've just used which ever fingers seemed not busy. But
it's not practical to do that if you're doing cut and paste while also
typing. There's too much gross hand movement - you cannot do it fast.
I can't resist pointing out that the Microsoft
"innovation" of putting
the left control key to the left of the space bar is the devil's
inspiration.
Can we really blame the evil empire for the IBM keyboard layout? I
thought it predated them. At least dual control keys, one each side,
allows for proper typing, like the two shift keys. I just wish the ALT
keys had stayed as a way of typing alternate characters, not got
subverted into more hotkeys, and generally abstract ones, as well.
Long-time Unix hands and early PC users will remember keyboards with
the CTRL key next to the A, where God intended it to be.
I can't recall one on an IBM PC clone, but certainly on other personal
computers, long before the 286. While it may help with some things,
there's a few CTRL + <something> combinations which are awkward to do if
you only have one control key on the board.
Coming from a background of typing before there was computers around us,
I found it more than a bit of a pain that there was a CTRL key where I
expected to find a SHIFT lock. Later on, finding a CAPS lock instead of
shift, was another oddity. Though probably a more practical offering.
Let's face it, it's common enough to want to type a whole word or two as
all capitals, it's very unusual to need to type several symbols from
above the number row.
One thing I really really hate, is what happens when you press shift
while the caps lock is on. tYPICALLY YOU GET THIS CRAP (some gumby
thought it'd be a good idea to XOR the shift and caps locks). Whereas,
if you were a typist, you'd get the first letter still in capitals, as
you expect, then the lock is released when you release the shift key.
Thankfully, in Linux, you can configure away that stupidity.
7:26 a.m.
New subject: qwerty layout shortcuts - drifting away from original topic
Tim wrote:
typing. There's too much gross hand movement - you cannot do it
fast.
You can't, I can.
As Dotan has already pointed out, this kind of "discussion" will go no
where. I've seen "hunt and peckers" type faster than "touch
typers" simply
because they were just "peckers" and were not hunting.
But, who really cares? I do it my way, you do it your's. I'm happy, you're
happy.
I don't have any suggestions for Dotan on his original question since I
don't have his issue. So, I'm sorry I interrupted the thread with nothing
to offer.
8:24 a.m.
On 29/12/06, Matthew Saltzman <mjs(a)ces.clemson.edu> wrote:
> I really can't visualise what you mean here. You're
using one hand to
> manipulate the fingers of the other, so you can type CTRL C with the
> left hand?
I think Ed means left-hand CTRL key, right-hand C key. That's not what
Tim suggested and it's not what I'd think of for a two-handed combination.
I can't resist pointing out that the Microsoft "innovation" of putting the
left control key to the left of the space bar is the devil's inspiration.
Long-time Unix hands and early PC users will remember keyboards with the
CTRL key next to the A, where God intended it to be. (You can still get
them from Sun, and I always swap my control and caps-lock keys in
Prefereces -> Keyboard -> Layout Options.
That makes one-handed control-key combos a *lot* easier, and it makes
using Emacs a dramatically different experience than otherwise.
Matthew,
Please, I'd like to keep this thread on topic. I very much need the
keyboard shortcuts in my Feodra box functioning. I'd appreciate it if
you'd start another thread to discuss the merits of different methods
of typing keyboard shortcuts. The Fedora list goes off topic very
easily and it won't be the first time that valuable threads are lost
in the noise.
If anybody has any information on helping me bind keyboard shortcuts
to the physical keys, and not to the letter that they represent (as I
use layouts other than US English) then I'd appreciate any tips.
Thanks.
Dotan Cohen
http://what-is-what.com/what_is/php.html
http://englishlirics.com
9:30 a.m.
New subject: qwerty layout shortcuts - drifting away from original topic
Tim:
> typing. There's too much gross hand movement - you cannot do
it fast.
Ed Greshko:
You can't, I can.
I would challenge anybody to prove that they can move their whole
forearms, wrists and hands, into a new position, quicker than moving a
couple of fingers. It's a physical impossibility. And I don't just
mean humanly physically impossibly, I mean physics. Large objects
versus small objects with inertia to work against.
Likewise, for hunt and peck. Individual abilities aside, you're never
going to see a two-fingered typist, hunt and peck or otherwise, beat a
touch typist using all 10 fingers at 100 wpm. It's another physical
impossibility.
As to topic drift, that's why we have threading and subject lines. I've
changed the subject line, but don't have a client that lets me break the
references headers (it's been a while since I've seen one that lets you
manually do such things). And only those desiring to participate
actually do so...
1:59 p.m.
On Fri, 29 Dec 2006, Dotan Cohen wrote:
On 29/12/06, Matthew Saltzman <mjs(a)ces.clemson.edu> wrote:
> > I really can't visualise what you mean here. You're using one hand to
> > manipulate the fingers of the other, so you can type CTRL C with the
> > left hand?
>
> I think Ed means left-hand CTRL key, right-hand C key. That's not what
> Tim suggested and it's not what I'd think of for a two-handed combination.
>
> I can't resist pointing out that the Microsoft "innovation" of putting
the
> left control key to the left of the space bar is the devil's inspiration.
> Long-time Unix hands and early PC users will remember keyboards with the
> CTRL key next to the A, where God intended it to be. (You can still get
> them from Sun, and I always swap my control and caps-lock keys in
> Prefereces -> Keyboard -> Layout Options.
>
> That makes one-handed control-key combos a *lot* easier, and it makes
> using Emacs a dramatically different experience than otherwise.
>
Matthew,
Please, I'd like to keep this thread on topic. I very much need the
keyboard shortcuts in my Feodra box functioning. I'd appreciate it if
you'd start another thread to discuss the merits of different methods
of typing keyboard shortcuts. The Fedora list goes off topic very
easily and it won't be the first time that valuable threads are lost
in the noise.
Yeah, sorry, just couldn't resist. (I'm not the first one, and I'm sure I
won't be the last...)
If anybody has any information on helping me bind keyboard shortcuts
to the physical keys, and not to the letter that they represent (as I
use layouts other than US English) then I'd appreciate any tips.
Thanks.
OK Ob. original thread topic:
Have you looked at xmodmap and its GUI xkeycaps?
--
Matthew Saltzman
Clemson University Math Sciences
mjs AT clemson DOT edu
http://www.math.clemson.edu/~mjs
3:25 p.m.
On 29/12/06, Matthew Saltzman <mjs(a)ces.clemson.edu> wrote:
Have you looked at xmodmap and its GUI xkeycaps?
Thanks. I see that the keycode returned is the same independant of the
keyboard map. So I assume that I'd like to bind keyboard shortcuts to
keycodes. But how is this done?
Dotan Cohen
http://what-is-what.com/what_is/voip.html
http://lyricslist.com/lyrics/artist_albums/164/dixie_chicks.php
8:24 a.m.
New subject: qwerty layout shortcuts - drifting away from original topic
On 29/12/06, Tim <ignored_mailbox(a)yahoo.com.au> wrote:
Tim:
>> typing. There's too much gross hand movement - you cannot do it fast.
>
Ed Greshko:
> You can't, I can.
I would challenge anybody to prove that they can move their whole
forearms, wrists and hands, into a new position, quicker than moving a
couple of fingers. It's a physical impossibility. And I don't just
mean humanly physically impossibly, I mean physics. Large objects
versus small objects with inertia to work against.
As much as I didn't want this branch of the discussion to occur, I
must make a single comment to it. Regarding the physics you mention:
you say that a large (presumably massive) object cannot be accelerated
quicker than a smaller object. That is true given a consistant force
applied against them. However, if the force being applied to the
larger object is larger than f*M/m than it will in fact accelerate
quicker. In that respect, I dare suggest that the arm muscles (vs. the
finger musles and respective masses) meet this requirement. Maybe an
anatomy specialist could correct me?
Likewise, for hunt and peck. Individual abilities aside, you're
never
going to see a two-fingered typist, hunt and peck or otherwise, beat a
touch typist using all 10 fingers at 100 wpm. It's another physical
impossibility.
Unless they've got a T9 dictionary and only ten keys! I once dated a
girl who out-typed me on her Nokia mobile phone vs. me on my A4
wireless keyboard.
As to topic drift, that's why we have threading and subject
lines. I've
changed the subject line, but don't have a client that lets me break the
references headers (it's been a while since I've seen one that lets you
manually do such things). And only those desiring to participate
actually do so...
That's allright for me, Gmail breaks threads on subject. Most of the
time it's a pain (and there's no manual override) but for once it
works to my benefit.
Dotan Cohen
http://technology-sleuth.com/short_answer/what_is_a_firewall.html
http://what-is-what.com/what_is/bios.html
6322
days inactive
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days old
16 comments
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