fc3 on old 7GB HD with 64MB Ram

[Duncan Lithgow]

I've done a bit of searching and haven't really found anything to  help me
with this problem...

The laptop has fc2 running now, but not very well - i just installed it 'out
of the box' with no tweaks. I now want to put fc3 on with whatever tweaks
people can suggest.

But, I can see there are tweaks around, I've noticed stuff about using a
different x-windows thingy(?) and other bits and pieces.

The laptop should be able to browse without bells and whistles, connect to my
other fc3 box, run OpenOffice or Abiword. That's about it really.

So, where do I start in getting it to run well on the old thing?

Duncan

[Charles E. "Rick" Taylor, IV]

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 15:48:00 +0100 (CET)
[e-mail] wrote:
> The laptop has fc2 running now, but not very well - i just installed it
> 'out of the box' with no tweaks. I now want to put fc3 on with whatever
> tweaks people can suggest.

Run XFCE4, not Gnome or KDE.  That will save you a *lot* of memory which
your system can use for other things.

Disable any services you don't absolutely need after the installation. 
FC3 runs more stuff by default than you will need on an 
older box.

For casual browsing on old hardware, you might want to install dillo in
addition to firefox/mozilla.  See http://www.dillo.org/

Matrox G450 or nVidia Quadro NVS on FC2

[Aaron Scamehorn]

Has anyone had any luck with either of these cards on FC2?
> From browsing both their webs, seems to me that nVidia is doing a little bit

more to support the Linux community with forums, but they both have very
recent drivers...
> From nVidia:

------------
Linux Display Driver - IA32

Version: 1.0-6629
Operating System: Linux IA32
Release Date: November 5, 2004
> From Matrox:

------------
Linux Driver (for XFree86 4.3.0 and X.org 6.7.0, 6.8.0, 6.8.1)
File Name:                    Release Date:     Version:      Size:
mgadriver-4.1.tar.gz          Dec. 08, 2004     4.1           724 KB
mgadriver-4.1-1-src.tar.gz    Dec. 08, 2004     source code   1 MB

Commentary on experiences would be appreciated.  Need to decide which to go
with.

Thanks,
Aaron

[Duncan Lithgow]

Charles E Taylor IV <tomalek <at> mindspring.com> writes:
> On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 15:48:00 +0100 (CET) 
> duncan <at> lithgow-schmidt.dk wrote:
> > The laptop has fc2 running now, but not very well - i just installed it 
> > 'out of the box' with no tweaks. I now want to put fc3 on with whatever 
> > tweaks people can suggest.
>
> Run XFCE4, not Gnome or KDE.  That will save you a *lot* of memory which 
> your system can use for other things.
>
> Disable any services you don't absolutely need after the installation.  
> FC3 runs more stuff by default than you will need on an  
> older box.
>
> For casual browsing on old hardware, you might want to install dillo in 
> addition to firefox/mozilla.  See http://www.dillo.org/

Hi Charles, thanks for the reply...

Sounds good, but i'm a linux virgin (well nearly).

1. So in order to use XFCE4 instead of Gnome or FDE what do i do? Do I specify 
that in anaconda or later? Also, is that a minimal graphical environmental or 
just a terminal?

2. I understand the idea of disabling unneeded services, but how do I know 
which are unimportant? I know that in anaconda i can select aminimal 
instalation - is that minimal enough for this?

3. I'll take a look at dillo - thanks

Duncan

[Vinicius]

Charles E Taylor IV escreveu:
> On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 15:48:00 +0100 (CET)
> [e-mail] wrote:
> > The laptop has fc2 running now, but not very well - i just installed it
> > 'out of the box' with no tweaks. I now want to put fc3 on with whatever
> > tweaks people can suggest.
>
> Run XFCE4, not Gnome or KDE.  That will save you a *lot* of memory which
> your system can use for other things.
>
> Disable any services you don't absolutely need after the installation. 
> FC3 runs more stuff by default than you will need on an 
> older box.
>
> For casual browsing on old hardware, you might want to install dillo in
> addition to firefox/mozilla.  See http://www.dillo.org/

and have you read the "Fedora Core 3 x86 Release Notes" at 
http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/release-notes/fc3/x86/ ?

[Jim Higson]

> So in order to use XFCE4 instead of Gnome or FDE what do i do? Do I
>
> specify that in anaconda or later? Also, is that a minimal graphical
> environmental or just a terminal?

Yes, XFCE was introduced with FC3, you will have the option to install it in 
Anaconda when you upgrade to FC3. Then, when you logon you can select XFCE as 
the session.

XFCE is a light, fast, graphical desktop. It's actually rather nice, see 
http://www.xfce.org/

[Duncan Lithgow]

Jim Higson wrote:
> > So in order to use XFCE4 instead of Gnome or FDE what do i do? Do I
> >
> > specify that in anaconda or later? Also, is that a minimal graphical
> > environmental or just a terminal?
>
> Yes, XFCE was introduced with FC3, you will have the option to install it in 
> Anaconda when you upgrade to FC3. Then, when you logon you can select XFCE as 
> the session.
>
> XFCE is a light, fast, graphical desktop. It's actually rather nice, see 
> http://www.xfce.org/

I've had to put this project on hold as I just gave my fc3 cd's away to 
someone and can't get anything to burn in fc3 now (or do i sneak across 
to XP?)
...

Duncan

[Duncan Lithgow]

Duncan Lithgow wrote:
> Jim Higson wrote:
> > > So in order to use XFCE4 instead of Gnome or FDE what do i do? Do I
> > >
> > > specify that in anaconda or later? Also, is that a minimal graphical
> > > environmental or just a terminal?
> >
> > Yes, XFCE was introduced with FC3, you will have the option to 
> > install it in Anaconda when you upgrade to FC3. Then, when you logon 
> > you can select XFCE as the session.
> >
> > XFCE is a light, fast, graphical desktop. It's actually rather nice, 
> > see http://www.xfce.org/
>
> I've had to put this project on hold as I just gave my fc3 cd's away 
> to someone and can't get anything to burn in fc3 now (or do i sneak 
> across to XP?)
> ...
>
> Duncan

Oops, my mistake - I was putting it in the dvd drive. Silly me.

I've got anaconda running on the laptop and have selected XFCE - not 
sure if I need x-windows though. I'll look around...

Duncan

[Duncan Lithgow]

So, I've installed as normal. No Gnome or KDE but selected XFCE, thought 
i'd dump other extra packages once i was up and running.

Now, it get as far as initializing hardware, (storage, network audio 
[done]) and then *without* powering down just dies. That is the screen 
dies after being grey for a short time. The power still runs, and if i 
throw in a cd it powers up and spins it.

ideas?

Duncan

[Gain Paolo Mureddu]

Jim Higson wrote:
> Yes, XFCE was introduced with FC3, you will have the option to install it in 
> Anaconda when you upgrade to FC3. Then, when you logon you can select XFCE as 
> the session.
>
> XFCE is a light, fast, graphical desktop. It's actually rather nice, see 
> http://www.xfce.org/

One correction it was available in CD 4 of FC2 too, but there was no 
option to install it with Anaconda ;)

[James Wilkinson]

Duncan Lithgow wrote:
> So, I've installed as normal. No Gnome or KDE but selected XFCE, thought 
> i'd dump other extra packages once i was up and running.
>
> Now, it get as far as initializing hardware, (storage, network audio 
> [done]) and then *without* powering down just dies. That is the screen 
> dies after being grey for a short time. The power still runs, and if i 
> throw in a cd it powers up and spins it.
>
> ideas?

Have you tried removing "rhgb quiet" from the kernel parameters? When
you're booting and see the Grub screen, press a key (if necessary) to
get at the menu, and press "e" to edit the boot options.

Hope this helps,

James.

[Duncan Lithgow]

On Sat, 2005-01-29 at 09:55 +0000, James Wilkinson wrote:
> Duncan Lithgow wrote:
> > So, I've installed as normal. No Gnome or KDE but selected XFCE, thought 
> > i'd dump other extra packages once i was up and running.
> >
> > Now, it get as far as initializing hardware, (storage, network audio 
> > [done]) and then *without* powering down just dies. That is the screen 
> > dies after being grey for a short time. The power still runs, and if i 
> > throw in a cd it powers up and spins it.
> >
> > ideas?
>
> Have you tried removing "rhgb quiet" from the kernel parameters? When
> you're booting and see the Grub screen, press a key (if necessary) to
> get at the menu, and press "e" to edit the boot options.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> James.

That helped quite a bit, it got into runlevel 5. It died after utp or
something like that, after loading cups etc. It looked like it was
starting the next step by going ".."

On my system that's when the graphic logon starts.

What's the next suggestion James?

Duncan

PS. I love 'just a minute' too!

[Duncan Lithgow]

Okay, I'm getting closer. It was crashing after initial hardware detection so 
I removed that 'rhgb quiet' and now it boots right up to the point where i 
expect the login screen to appear - what's my next step?

ideas?

Duncan

[Paul Howarth]

Duncan Lithgow wrote:
> Okay, I'm getting closer. It was crashing after initial hardware detection so 
> I removed that 'rhgb quiet' and now it boots right up to the point where i 
> expect the login screen to appear - what's my next step?

Looks like your X configuration doesn't work. Did it work in the 
installer? If you boot to runlevel 3, can you log in? Can you run:

$ startx >X.out 2>X.err

What happens? If X doesn't start, what's in the two files?

Paul.

[Si Jones]

> I removed that 'rhgb quiet' and now it boots right up to the point where i
> expect the login screen to appear - what's my next step?

if you have a login prompt... login using root and what ever password and
try on the command line

X -configure

then

startx

and see if that works...

[Si Jones]

> if you have a login prompt... login using root and what ever password and
> try on the command line
>
> X -configure
>
> then
>
> startx

Sorry - when grub comes up, append 3 at the end after taking off rhgb quiet

you should get a command prompt login...

[solarflow 99]

Does it not give yuo the login screen?  Also are you using run level 5?  i'd 
recommend just using 3 and typing startx whenever you need it on a computer 
like that, especially if this is for a server you don't want X running.  
What is the CPU and speed btw?
> From: Duncan Lithgow 
> Reply-To: For users of Fedora Core releases 
> To: For users of Fedora Core releases 
> Subject: Re: fc3 on old 7GB HD with 64MB Ram
> Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 15:04:14 +0100
>
> Okay, I'm getting closer. It was crashing after initial hardware detection 
> so
> I removed that 'rhgb quiet' and now it boots right up to the point where i
> expect the login screen to appear - what's my next step?
>
> ideas?
>
> Duncan
>
> --
> fedora-list mailing list
> [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe: http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list

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[Duncan Lithgow]

On Tuesday 01 February 2005 15:04, Duncan Lithgow wrote:
> Okay, I'm getting closer. It was crashing after initial hardware detection
> so I removed that 'rhgb quiet' and now it boots right up to the point where
> i expect the login screen to appear - what's my next step?
>
> ideas?
>
> Duncan

Okay, I tried Paul and Si's ideas...

boot...
remove "rhgb quiet" add "3"
setup tool arrives - wait a bit and it goes again and I get a login prompt
login as root

$ X -configure
nothing serious, says it can't find my mouse, lot's of stuff above screen I 
can't read.

$ startx

... and I'm back at where I started, the screen goes dead and I can see that 
'crystals going to sleep' thing swish across the screen. The system is not 
powered down thou. Just no screen - maybe waiting with a login splash screen?
> What is the CPU and speed btw?

700Hz - celeron
what's the speed you wanted, I'm not much of a hardware wizz, 4200rpm? Here's 
some specs...

# Formatted Capacity: 10GB
# Interface: 44-pin ATA4
# Data Transfer Rates: 66.7MB/s (UDMA)
# Average Seek Times: 13ms
# Buffer Size: 1MB
# Rotational Speed: 4200rpm

Still stumped - Duncan

[Paul Howarth]

Duncan Lithgow wrote:
> Okay, I tried Paul and Si's ideas...
>
> boot...
> remove "rhgb quiet" add "3"
> setup tool arrives - wait a bit and it goes again and I get a login prompt
> login as root
>
> $ X -configure
> nothing serious, says it can't find my mouse, lot's of stuff above screen I 
> can't read.
>
> $ startx
>
> ... and I'm back at where I started, the screen goes dead and I can see that 
> 'crystals going to sleep' thing swish across the screen. The system is not 
> powered down thou. Just no screen - maybe waiting with a login splash screen?

You can get some diagnostics on what's happening with startx as follows:

$ startx >X.out 2>X.err

Any console output generated by startx will go to X.out and any error 
messages will go to X.err. If it still hangs you can reboot and look in 
those files for any clues as to what's going wrong.

Paul.

[Duncan Lithgow]

> You can get some diagnostics on what's happening with startx as follows:
>
> $ startx >X.out 2>X.err
>
> Any console output generated by startx will go to X.out and any error
> messages will go to X.err. If it still hangs you can reboot and look in
> those files for any clues as to what's going wrong.
>
> Paul.

Thanks, but how will I find those files afterwards? I'm not too hot on command 
line - I can navigate but don't know how to search for a file... can you help 
with that?

Duncan

(I'm not going to try Knoppix with 64kb RAM!)

[Paul Howarth]

Duncan Lithgow wrote:
> > You can get some diagnostics on what's happening with startx as follows:
> >
> > $ startx >X.out 2>X.err
> >
> > Any console output generated by startx will go to X.out and any error
> > messages will go to X.err. If it still hangs you can reboot and look in
> > those files for any clues as to what's going wrong.
> >
> > Paul.
>
> Thanks, but how will I find those files afterwards? I'm not too hot on command 
> line - I can navigate but don't know how to search for a file... can you help 
> with that?

They will be in the directory that you ran "startx" from (your home 
directory if you've just logged in). This is just regular output 
redirection, nothing fancy about it.

Paul.

[Duncan Lithgow]

> You can get some diagnostics on what's happening with startx as follows:
>
> $ startx >X.out 2>X.err
>
> Any console output generated by startx will go to X.out and any error
> messages will go to X.err. If it still hangs you can reboot and look in
> those files for any clues as to what's going wrong.
>
> Paul.

Done that - managed to read them with vi (that was a bit of a challenge for 
me) X.out had setup info and then no warnings or anything, X.err was empty.

So, what's next?

hmm

Duncan

[Paul Howarth]

Duncan Lithgow wrote:
> > You can get some diagnostics on what's happening with startx as follows:
> >
> > $ startx >X.out 2>X.err
> >
> > Any console output generated by startx will go to X.out and any error
> > messages will go to X.err. If it still hangs you can reboot and look in
> > those files for any clues as to what's going wrong.
>
> Done that - managed to read them with vi (that was a bit of a challenge for 
> me) X.out had setup info and then no warnings or anything, X.err was empty.

No lines containing "EE" (indicating an error)?

Could you post the X.out file?

Paul.

[Duncan Lithgow]

X.out now contains nothing at all.
X.err contains nothing.

How about if I tell you what's in xorg.conf.new? It's a bit long so I won't 
copy the whole thing out...

I'm feeling more confident in vi after this thou' There's always a silver 
lining...

Duncan

[Paul Howarth]

On Wed, 2005-02-02 at 20:53 +0100, Duncan Lithgow wrote:
> X.out now contains nothing at all.
> X.err contains nothing.
>
> How about if I tell you what's in xorg.conf.new? It's a bit long so I won't 
> copy the whole thing out...
>
> I'm feeling more confident in vi after this thou' There's always a silver 
> lining...

Can you try re-running the startx command.

$ startx >X.out 2>X.err

I'm unlikely to spot anything in an xorg.conf file.

Paul.

[Duncan Lithgow]

> $ startx >X.out 2>X.err

Okay, I've run it again and I'll give you more info.

$ vi X.err
produces:
E325: ATTENTION
Found a swap file by the name ".X.err.swp"
 Owned by: root dated: Wed Feb 2 17:59:55 2005
 File name: root/X.err
 modified: YES
 user name: root hostname: localhost.localdomain
 process ID: 3114
While opening file "X.err"
 dated: Thu Feb 3 11:22:14 2005
 NEWER than swap file!

(1) Another program may be editing the same file. 
            If this is the case, be careful not to end up with two 
            different instances of the same file when making changes. 
            Quit, or continue with caution.

(2) An edit session for this file crashed. 
            If this is the case, use ":recover" or "vim -r main.c" 
            to recover the changes (see ":help recovery"). 
            If you did this already, delete the swap file ".X.err.swp" 
            to avoid this message.

Swap file ".X.err.swp" already exists!

I press open to open anyway...
produces:

X Windows System Version 6.8.1
Release Date:17th September 2004
X Protocol Version 11, Revision 0, Release 6.8.1
Build Operating System: Linux localhost.localdomain 2.6.9-667 #1 Tue Nov 2 
14:41:25 EST 2004 i686
Build Date: 20 October 2004
Build Host: tweety.build.redhat.com

Before reporting problems, check http://wiki.X.org
 to make sure you have the latets version
Module Loader present
OS Kernel: Linux version 2.6.9-1.667 ([e-mail]) (gcc 
version 3.4.2 20041017 (red Hat 3.4.2-6.fc3)) #1 Tue Nov 2 14:41:25 EST 
2004Markers: (--) probed, (**) from config file, (==) default setting,
 (++) from command line, (!!) notice, (II) informational,
 (WW) warning, (EE) error, (NI) not implemented, (??) unknown.
(==) Log file: "/var/log/Xorg.0.log", Time: Thu Feb 3 11:22:14 2005
(==) Using config file: "/etc/X11/xorg.conf"

That's all there is in that file - two default settings. Now lets try X.out:
Totally empty file!

I also checked "/var/log/Xorg.0.log" that's also empty. Next idea?

I'm getting a bit worn down by this now...

Thanks so far for the help guys, Duncan

[Paul Howarth]

Duncan Lithgow wrote:
> > $ startx >X.out 2>X.err
>
> Okay, I've run it again and I'll give you more info.
>
> $ vi X.err
> produces:
> E325: ATTENTION
> Found a swap file by the name ".X.err.swp"
>  Owned by: root dated: Wed Feb 2 17:59:55 2005
>  File name: root/X.err
>  modified: YES
>  user name: root hostname: localhost.localdomain
>  process ID: 3114
> While opening file "X.err"
>  dated: Thu Feb 3 11:22:14 2005
>  NEWER than swap file!
>     (1) Another program may be editing the same file. 
>         If this is the case, be careful not to end up with two 
>         different instances of the same file when making changes. 
>         Quit, or continue with caution. 
>
>     (2) An edit session for this file crashed. 
>         If this is the case, use ":recover" or "vim -r main.c" 
>         to recover the changes (see ":help recovery"). 
>         If you did this already, delete the swap file ".X.err.swp" 
>         to avoid this message.
>
> Swap file ".X.err.swp" already exists!

This is a leftover file from a previously-crashed editing session. You 
can just remove the file .X.err.swp
> I press open to open anyway...
> produces:
>
> X Windows System Version 6.8.1
> Release Date:17th September 2004
> X Protocol Version 11, Revision 0, Release 6.8.1
> Build Operating System: Linux localhost.localdomain 2.6.9-667 #1 Tue Nov 2 
> 14:41:25 EST 2004 i686
> Build Date: 20 October 2004
> Build Host: tweety.build.redhat.com
>
> Before reporting problems, check http://wiki.X.org
>  to make sure you have the latets version
> Module Loader present
> OS Kernel: Linux version 2.6.9-1.667 ([e-mail]) (gcc 
> version 3.4.2 20041017 (red Hat 3.4.2-6.fc3)) #1 Tue Nov 2 14:41:25 EST 
> 2004Markers: (--) probed, (**) from config file, (==) default setting,
>  (++) from command line, (!!) notice, (II) informational,
>  (WW) warning, (EE) error, (NI) not implemented, (??) unknown.
> (==) Log file: "/var/log/Xorg.0.log", Time: Thu Feb 3 11:22:14 2005
> (==) Using config file: "/etc/X11/xorg.conf"
>
> That's all there is in that file - two default settings. Now lets try X.out:
> Totally empty file!

That X.err is suspiciously sort; it would normally have much more 
information after that point.
> I also checked "/var/log/Xorg.0.log" that's also empty. Next idea?
>
> I'm getting a bit worn down by this now...
>
> Thanks so far for the help guys, Duncan

What video card do you have in this PC and what's in the "Device" 
section of your /etc/X11/xorg.conf?

Can you run system-config-display? Does it appear to work?

Paul.

[Duncan Lithgow]

> > Swap file ".X.err.swp" already exists!
>
> This is a leftover file from a previously-crashed editing session. You
> can just remove the file .X.err.swp

Love to but have never been avle to find the delete command in bash. Could you 
tell me what it is?
> > setting, (++) from command line, (!!) notice, (II) informational,
> >  (WW) warning, (EE) error, (NI) not implemented, (??) unknown.
> > (==) Log file: "/var/log/Xorg.0.log", Time: Thu Feb 3 11:22:14 2005
> > (==) Using config file: "/etc/X11/xorg.conf"
> >
> > That's all there is in that file - two default settings. Now lets try
> > X.out: Totally empty file!
>
> That X.err is suspiciously sort; it would normally have much more
> information after that point.

in vi i just press the down button and it doesn't go down beyond that - am I 
doing it right?
> What video card do you have in this PC and what's in the "Device"
> section of your /etc/X11/xorg.conf?

There are several 'device' sections. I'm guessing you want this one:

Section "Device"
 Identifier "Videocard"
 Driver "trident"
 VendorName "Videocard vendor"
 BoardName "Trident CyberBlade (generic)"
EndSection

Section "Device"
 Identify "Monitor0"
 VendorName "Monitor Vendor"
 ModelName "Unknown"
 HorizSync  31.5-37.9
 VertRefresh 50.0 - 70.0
 Option  "dpms"
EndSection

I haven't checked if these are rigth, but I can't see why they'd be wrong, I 
had fc2 running fine (remember that the whole point of this is to get fc3 
running with minimal graphics)
> Can you run system-config-display? Does it appear to work?

Nope that killed it.
> Paul.

btw, when I log in it says "You have mail" wtf? I certainly don't - not from 
any network at least.

Duncan

[Paul Howarth]

Duncan Lithgow wrote:
> > > Swap file ".X.err.swp" already exists!
> >
> > This is a leftover file from a previously-crashed editing session. You
> > can just remove the file .X.err.swp
>
> Love to but have never been avle to find the delete command in bash. Could you 
> tell me what it is?

$ rm .X.err.swp
> > > setting, (++) from command line, (!!) notice, (II) informational,
> > > (WW) warning, (EE) error, (NI) not implemented, (??) unknown.
> > > (==) Log file: "/var/log/Xorg.0.log", Time: Thu Feb 3 11:22:14 2005
> > > (==) Using config file: "/etc/X11/xorg.conf"
> > >
> > > That's all there is in that file - two default settings. Now lets try
> > > X.out: Totally empty file!
> >
> > That X.err is suspiciously sort; it would normally have much more
> > information after that point.
>
> in vi i just press the down button and it doesn't go down beyond that - am I 
> doing it right?

Yes, that should be OK. To be sure, you could try pressing "G" (that's 
capital G) to go to the end of the file.
> > What video card do you have in this PC and what's in the "Device"
> > section of your /etc/X11/xorg.conf?
>
> There are several 'device' sections. I'm guessing you want this one:
>
> Section "Device"
>  Identifier "Videocard"
>  Driver "trident"
>  VendorName "Videocard vendor"
>  BoardName "Trident CyberBlade (generic)"
> EndSection
>
> Section "Device"
>  Identify "Monitor0"
>  VendorName "Monitor Vendor"
>  ModelName "Unknown"
>  HorizSync  31.5-37.9
>  VertRefresh 50.0 - 70.0
>  Option  "dpms"
> EndSection

Hmm, curious. The monitor is in a section called "Monitor" in all the 
configuration files I've got. I wonder if that's what's confusing things?
> I haven't checked if these are rigth, but I can't see why they'd be wrong, I 
> had fc2 running fine (remember that the whole point of this is to get fc3 
> running with minimal graphics)
> > Can you run system-config-display? Does it appear to work?
>
> Nope that killed it.

Try changing the line:

Driver "trident"

to

Driver "vesa"

in /etc/X11/xorg.conf and see if that helps.
> btw, when I log in it says "You have mail" wtf? I certainly don't - not from 
> any network at least.

It might be a message about your crashed vi session. Look in 
/var/spool/mail and you should see the mail files for each user that has 
mail. You could read it with the "Mail" command if you knew how to drive it.

Paul.

[Jeff Vian]

On Thu, 2005-02-03 at 13:28 +0100, Duncan Lithgow wrote:
> > > Swap file ".X.err.swp" already exists!
> >
> > This is a leftover file from a previously-crashed editing session. You
> > can just remove the file .X.err.swp
>
> Love to but have never been avle to find the delete command in bash. Could you 
> tell me what it is?

"rm"  or a common alias for that is "del"
> > > setting, (++) from command line, (!!) notice, (II) informational,
> > >  (WW) warning, (EE) error, (NI) not implemented, (??) unknown.
> > > (==) Log file: "/var/log/Xorg.0.log", Time: Thu Feb 3 11:22:14 2005
> > > (==) Using config file: "/etc/X11/xorg.conf"
> > >
> > > That's all there is in that file - two default settings. Now lets try
> > > X.out: Totally empty file!
> >
> > That X.err is suspiciously sort; it would normally have much more
> > information after that point.
>
> in vi i just press the down button and it doesn't go down beyond that - am I 
> doing it right?
> > What video card do you have in this PC and what's in the "Device"
> > section of your /etc/X11/xorg.conf?
>
> There are several 'device' sections. I'm guessing you want this one:
>
> Section "Device"
>  Identifier "Videocard"
>  Driver "trident"
>  VendorName "Videocard vendor"
>  BoardName "Trident CyberBlade (generic)"
> EndSection
>
> Section "Device"
>  Identify "Monitor0"
>  VendorName "Monitor Vendor"
>  ModelName "Unknown"
>  HorizSync  31.5-37.9
>  VertRefresh 50.0 - 70.0
>  Option  "dpms"
> EndSection
>
> I haven't checked if these are rigth, but I can't see why they'd be wrong, I 
> had fc2 running fine (remember that the whole point of this is to get fc3 
> running with minimal graphics)
> > Can you run system-config-display? Does it appear to work?
>
> Nope that killed it.
> > Paul.
>
> btw, when I log in it says "You have mail" wtf? I certainly don't - not from 
> any network at least.
>
> Duncan