8:14 p.m.
I run Fedora in school computer lab. I cannot upgrade to F15 because
of gnome3. In order to help the community stay with Fedora, could
security updates for F14 be provided until F17 is released?
Hopefully by then gnome3 will be fully baked.
--
Robert Arkiletian
Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada
4:13 p.m.
Robert Arkiletian wrote:
In order to help the community stay with Fedora, could
security updates for F14 be provided until F17 is released?
Fedora is not a democracy. It is a meritocracy.
The only changes that get made to Fedora are by people that work to make
the changes. Votes are not cast. Petitions are not honored. The elected
individuals in Fedora are to keep the package maintainers in check with
the existing policies. They do not govern the direction of upstream
software.
To put it bluntly, if this isn't obvious by now, this thread is pointless.
1:37 p.m.
On Mon, 2011-09-05 at 19:47 +0200, suvayu ali wrote:
On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 7:42 PM, Joe Zeff <joe(a)zeff.us> wrote:
> On 09/05/2011 10:24 AM, Gregory P. Ennis wrote:
>> The
>> hardware requirements for F15 make a lot of equipment unusable;
>
> Is it the hardware requirements for F15 or for Gnome 3 that are causing
> the problem? In the latter case, the answer is easy if you take it
> logically.
I think he is referring to the anaconda issue (more RAM required for
installation than actually running Fedora). The problem with that bug
was, even after anaconda was updated the release DVD (more likely what
any new user will download) still had the older version.
HTH
--
Suvayu
Open source is the future. It sets us free.
Suvayu,
Yes, you are correct, I was not even able to install F15 on my first
attempt. The memory limits were published incorrectly at that time.
Latter the additional memory requirement was published, I put in some
additional memory in the test machine I used, and got an install.
However, I could not make gnome3 work until several updates. I finally
released the machine for users, but everyone avoids using it. The
complaints I get are related to having an 'intermittant white screen'
that causes the desktop to be unresponsive requiring a reboot. I have
not had the time, but my next step to salvage this piece of equipment is
to use kde or one of the other gui's.
gnome3 is another subject. I decided to install F15 on a laptop for my
own use, and I actually like some of what gnome3 has done. The laptop
is not as old as my test machine so things are functioning much better.
I am still getting adjusted to it; my perception so far is that it
looks elegant and pretty, but gnome3 is difficult to use in a way that
achieves results quickly, and does not allow you to organize the desktop
into an efficient structure.
Greg
1:57 p.m.
On 09/06/2011 11:48 AM, Gregory P. Ennis wrote:
I took your advice, and installed XFCE on F15 and it is working
better
than great. Very fast, very intuitive, and the users were very pleased.
So far no crashes or white screens.
I'm glad it worked for you. One of the great things about Linux is that
there's never One True Way, and if you don't like the way something
works, there's always an alternative. The trick is to find the one
that's right for you.
1:48 p.m.
On Mon, 2011-09-05 at 11:53 -0700, Joe Zeff wrote:
On 09/05/2011 11:37 AM, Gregory P. Ennis wrote:
> I have
> not had the time, but my next step to salvage this piece of equipment is
> to use kde or one of the other gui's.
My desktop is maxed out at 1 Gig, and I'm not in the position to buy a
new one. (Aside from that limitation, it works just fine for my needs.)
Currently, I'm using F14 with XFCE and it's very responsive. Don't
know how F15 would work, because I'm planning on waiting for F16.
However, based on my own experience, I'd suggest that you try it because
it's a lightweight DE that's easy to get used to and your students may
like it. If you can, consider putting KDE on one of the others as an
alternate DE so that they can try as many desktops as possible and fine
out which one they like best.
Joe,
I took your advice, and installed XFCE on F15 and it is working better
than great. Very fast, very intuitive, and the users were very pleased.
So far no crashes or white screens. Everything is working perfectly.
For all of you trying to use gnome3 and are tired of it, XFCE is a great
alternative.
Greg
2:24 p.m.
On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 12:10 PM, Joe Zeff <joe(a)zeff.us> wrote:
On 09/05/2011 11:55 AM, Robert Arkiletian wrote:
> XFCE is a viable option but, in all honesty,
> it's a step backwards from gnome2.
How long has it been since you've tried it? F14 comes with 4.6, F15 and
up with 4.8, the most recent version. If you haven't used it in several
years, give it a spin; you may be pleasantly surprised.
Yeah, I did notice F15 comes with XFCE 4.8. Is it all that different from 4.6?
--
Robert Arkiletian
Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada
2:38 p.m.
On 09/05/2011 12:24 PM, Robert Arkiletian wrote:
Yeah, I did notice F15 comes with XFCE 4.8. Is it all that different
from 4.6?
I've upgraded my laptop, but not my desktop as yet. There are,
actually, some improvements. One problem with 4.6 is that the only menu
editor must be run as root, and affects all users. In 4.8 you can use
alacart, which means that each user can customize their own menu. For
more details, see this: http://www.xfce.org/about/tour
It's kept one feature from old-school window managers that I liked years
ago and thought I'd lost. The right-click context menu for the desktop
includes your complete main menu. Not a big thing, I'll grant, but it's
one that quickly becomes a habit that you don't want to do without.
2:36 p.m.
On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 8:55 PM, Robert Arkiletian <robark(a)gmail.com> wrote:
gnome3 is an issue for ME because I introduced Linux to my school
populace 6 years ago. Students and staff have associated gnome2 with
Linux. They slowly got used to it. Now if I put gnome3 in front of
them, I can just imagine all the calls I'm going to get. "How do you
do this? It's different. What happened? Why can't I _____? ....."
If retraining is your issue, I would suggest XFCE or LXDE for you.
They are close enough with Gnome 2 that an FAQ page listing the
differences should be enough for retraining non-technical users.
--
Suvayu
Open source is the future. It sets us free.
2:21 p.m.
On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 12:08 PM, Kevin Fenzi <kevin(a)scrye.com> wrote:
On Mon, 5 Sep 2011 11:55:56 -0700
Robert Arkiletian <robark(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Well let's be realistic. An extra 6 months of *only* security updates
> would be super. Time enough for F17
...snip...
> Simply put it's just too much change for my use case and my comfort
> level at work.
>
> But don't misunderstand me. I am appreciative with the pioneering work
> that Fedora and Red Hat do. It's great to see things advance. It will
> be interesting to see X replaced by Wayland and having a display
> server that does not run with root privileges. My own personal desires
> and my workplace requirements are not always the same though.
I'm curious... how would an extra 6 months help your case?
F17 will still have gnome3 and systemd. I suppose it gives you more
time to train up your users, but it's going to be a training/switchover
sometime, no?
True. But I'm hoping issues with systemd will be ironed out by then
and "hopefully" gnome3 will have matured too. Plus F14 support ends
in Dec (I think). I try to avoid distro upgrades mid school year. I
like to do big changes over the summer. I just upgraded from F13 this
summer. Honestly, I'm not holding my breath. I know extending F14
security updates (even just critical security updates) is probably not
going to happen. But no harm in asking. Do you think it's at all
possible?
--
Robert Arkiletian
Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada
2:10 p.m.
On 09/05/2011 11:55 AM, Robert Arkiletian wrote:
XFCE is a viable option but, in all honesty,
it's a step backwards from gnome2.
How long has it been since you've tried it? F14 comes with 4.6, F15 and
up with 4.8, the most recent version. If you haven't used it in several
years, give it a spin; you may be pleasantly surprised.
2:08 p.m.
On 09/05/2011 11:47 AM, Richard Hughes wrote:
If there were more people helping out with QA
and backporting patches then I'm sure most developers would let people
do the updates for them, but the reality is nobody is willing to do
the work.
As I've mentioned before, I haven't done any programming in over a
decade, and when I did, it wasn't for Linux and it certainly wasn't the
type needed. At this point, helping out with tech support (I got a job
doing it, once, and found that I was not only good at it, I enjoyed it.)
and reporting bugs to Bugzilla is the best way I can help out and pay
back the community for all I've gotten. As far as the programming goes,
I suspect that most of us on the list are in the same position: not
enough experience in the specific field needed.
On a side note, all too many of the devs either expect everybody else to
know how to program as well as they do, or use the comment "If you don't
like it, why don't you fix it yourself?" as a putdown to the rest of us
who don't agree with what they've done, or would like minor changes
made. I doubt that this message will change anything, and I don't
expect it to, but I would hope that those of us on this list would keep
in mind the fact that most of us wouldn't know how to patch/modify a
complex program if their lives depended on it and find more helpful
suggestions. (Pointing people toward the correct dev's email list may
or may not be helpful depending on the list's attitude, but it's
probably better than nothing.)
2:08 p.m.
On Mon, 5 Sep 2011 11:55:56 -0700
Robert Arkiletian <robark(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Well let's be realistic. An extra 6 months of *only* security updates
would be super. Time enough for F17
...snip...
Simply put it's just too much change for my use case and my
comfort
level at work.
But don't misunderstand me. I am appreciative with the pioneering work
that Fedora and Red Hat do. It's great to see things advance. It will
be interesting to see X replaced by Wayland and having a display
server that does not run with root privileges. My own personal desires
and my workplace requirements are not always the same though.
I'm curious... how would an extra 6 months help your case?
F17 will still have gnome3 and systemd. I suppose it gives you more
time to train up your users, but it's going to be a training/switchover
sometime, no?
kevin
1:55 p.m.
On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 10:24 AM, Gregory P. Ennis <PoMec(a)pomec.net> wrote:
On Fri, 2011-09-02 at 08:18 +0200, Christopher Svanefalk wrote:
> On 09/02/2011 04:25 AM, Peter G. wrote:
> > Robert Arkiletian wrote:
> >
> >> I run Fedora in school computer lab. I cannot upgrade to F15 because
> >> of gnome3.
> > Boo hoo.
> >
>
> He is not alone
I agree, there are a lot of us that would like to extend F14. The
hardware requirements for F15 make a lot of equipment unusable; for sure
these machines may be obsolete anyway, but one of the nice things about
Fedora was that it would function on this equipment which meant a
desktop could be put together very cheaply and used effectively with
great software.
I understand that transitions related to enhancements should occur, and
in fact are required to occur. What Fedora has done in this area is
great!!!! However, some of us would sill like F14 to last another couple
years :)
Well let's be realistic. An extra 6 months of *only* security updates
would be super. Time enough for F17.
gnome3 is an issue for ME because I introduced Linux to my school
populace 6 years ago. Students and staff have associated gnome2 with
Linux. They slowly got used to it. Now if I put gnome3 in front of
them, I can just imagine all the calls I'm going to get. "How do you
do this? It's different. What happened? Why can't I _____? ....."
I'm not interested in tutoring *everyone* in gnome3. I have lots of
other work. For those that say, use KDE, I can't as I run DRBL so all
clients are diskless with NFS root. KDE 4 performance is unacceptably
slow in that environment. XFCE is a viable option but, in all honesty,
it's a step backwards from gnome2. It's kind of like moving the Linux
desktop back 5 years. Doesn't give a comparable impression to Win7.
But it is an option.
Plus gnome3 is not the only problem with F15. Systemd is also an issue
because of the diskless, pxe boot, nfs root environment.
Simply put it's just too much change for my use case and my comfort
level at work.
But don't misunderstand me. I am appreciative with the pioneering work
that Fedora and Red Hat do. It's great to see things advance. It will
be interesting to see X replaced by Wayland and having a display
server that does not run with root privileges. My own personal desires
and my workplace requirements are not always the same though.
--
Robert Arkiletian
Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada
1:53 p.m.
On 09/05/2011 11:37 AM, Gregory P. Ennis wrote:
I have
not had the time, but my next step to salvage this piece of equipment is
to use kde or one of the other gui's.
My desktop is maxed out at 1 Gig, and I'm not in the position to buy a
new one. (Aside from that limitation, it works just fine for my needs.)
Currently, I'm using F14 with XFCE and it's very responsive. Don't
know how F15 would work, because I'm planning on waiting for F16.
However, based on my own experience, I'd suggest that you try it because
it's a lightweight DE that's easy to get used to and your students may
like it. If you can, consider putting KDE on one of the others as an
alternate DE so that they can try as many desktops as possible and fine
out which one they like best.
1:47 p.m.
On 5 September 2011 18:24, Gregory P. Ennis <PoMec(a)pomec.net> wrote:
I agree, there are a lot of us that would like to extend F14.
This is impossible. Developers are already working at 100% just to try
and get F16 out of the door. If they have spare time, they try to do
F15 updates at the same time. I personally only will update F14 for
security updates now. If there were more people helping out with QA
and backporting patches then I'm sure most developers would let people
do the updates for them, but the reality is nobody is willing to do
the work. Backporting and _supporting_ newer packages in older
releases isn't a 5-minute a week thing, it's part of a full time job.
Richard.
12:47 p.m.
On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 7:42 PM, Joe Zeff <joe(a)zeff.us> wrote:
On 09/05/2011 10:24 AM, Gregory P. Ennis wrote:
> The
> hardware requirements for F15 make a lot of equipment unusable;
Is it the hardware requirements for F15 or for Gnome 3 that are causing
the problem? In the latter case, the answer is easy if you take it
logically.
I think he is referring to the anaconda issue (more RAM required for
installation than actually running Fedora). The problem with that bug
was, even after anaconda was updated the release DVD (more likely what
any new user will download) still had the older version.
HTH
--
Suvayu
Open source is the future. It sets us free.
12:37 p.m.
On 02/09/11 02:14, Robert Arkiletian wrote:
I run Fedora in school computer lab. I cannot upgrade to F15 because
of gnome3. In order to help the community stay with Fedora, could
security updates for F14 be provided until F17 is released?
Hopefully by then gnome3 will be fully baked.
You have my sympathy, but I doubt it will happen. I seem to remember the
trouble caused when Fedora went from KDE 3 to KDE 4, which delayed my
updating Fedora 8 until Fedora 10 arrived. I've had another problem with
Fedora 15 and I'm hoping updates will fix that before Fedora 16.In the
meanwhile I wish you the best, and the problems gets sorted by Fedora 16.
12:24 p.m.
On Fri, 2011-09-02 at 08:18 +0200, Christopher Svanefalk wrote:
On 09/02/2011 04:25 AM, Peter G. wrote:
> Robert Arkiletian wrote:
>
>> I run Fedora in school computer lab. I cannot upgrade to F15 because
>> of gnome3.
> Boo hoo.
>
He is not alone
I agree, there are a lot of us that would like to extend F14. The
hardware requirements for F15 make a lot of equipment unusable; for sure
these machines may be obsolete anyway, but one of the nice things about
Fedora was that it would function on this equipment which meant a
desktop could be put together very cheaply and used effectively with
great software.
I understand that transitions related to enhancements should occur, and
in fact are required to occur. What Fedora has done in this area is
great!!!! However, some of us would sill like F14 to last another couple
years :)
Greg Ennis
5:45 a.m.
On Fri, 02 Sep 2011 16:13:20 -0500
Michael Cronenworth <mike(a)cchtml.com> wrote:
Robert Arkiletian wrote:
> In order to help the community stay with Fedora, could
> security updates for F14 be provided until F17 is released?
Fedora is not a democracy. It is a meritocracy.
Neither really. A meritocracy is based upon merit. Fedora is not based
upon merit for the most part, it is based upon people giving their time
to do things. They don't have to be the best, they don't have to be the
grand master of all code they survey, they just have to care enough to
put the time in.
To put it bluntly, if this isn't obvious by now, this thread is
pointless.
If you want it - do it. If you are going to maintain E for yourself for
the next Fedora then why not maintain it within Fedora for example.
Alan
8:12 p.m.
On 9/2/2011 6:29 AM, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
On 09/02/2011 12:21 PM, Paul Allen Newell wrote:
>
> Hum ... I find it a difficult proposition to ask users "to step up and
> do it" when the march of progress indicates that it wasn't the users
> that asked for this change.
That may well be the case and Fedora doesn't really have a choice in
that matter either however "voting" for it isn't really going to
bringe resources necessary to extend the updates cycle. It still
requires a group of people to work together to do it. Changes in
Fedora as is common with free and open source projects happen because
people volunteered and contributed their time and effort. I don't
personally have a need for extending the updates cycle but if there is
a team of people interested in that, I would be happy to do my
part. I just don't see a whole lot of people interested in that
however.
Rahul
Rahul:
First, I think this "voting" is not really a true "vote" as Fedora /
Gnome hasn't put anything out there to vote on. To me, its more of a
polling to catch sense of user base. Its just one of many threads that
have expressed concern over Gnome3 in Fedora.
I completely understand and agree that it is a matter of resources and,
in a volunteer situation, there needs to be a critical mass of
volunteers who wish to do it rather than something else. The real
question in your answer is obvious enough that I need to answer it. I
haven't volunteered as I am not qualified to be able to make a positive
contribution (I am certain I could break alot of stuff and nobody wants
that).
So long as all of these threads about Gnome3 and Fedora 15 are catching
the ears/eyes of the developers, I am crossing my fingers that F16 will
address issues the user base is expressing so that the Linus-blanket of
continued support for F14 will be a moot point.
Thanks,
Paul
6 a.m.
On Fri, 2011-09-02 at 08:18 +0200, Christopher Svanefalk wrote:
On 09/02/2011 04:25 AM, Peter G. wrote:
> Robert Arkiletian wrote:
>
>> I run Fedora in school computer lab. I cannot upgrade to F15 because
>> of gnome3.
> Boo hoo.
>
He is not alone
Definitely not alone. Even XFCE in F-15 can be a bear.
8:22 p.m.
On 9/2/2011 2:13 PM, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
Robert Arkiletian wrote:
> In order to help the community stay with Fedora, could
> security updates for F14 be provided until F17 is released?
Fedora is not a democracy. It is a meritocracy.
The only changes that get made to Fedora are by people that work to make
the changes. Votes are not cast. Petitions are not honored. The elected
individuals in Fedora are to keep the package maintainers in check with
the existing policies. They do not govern the direction of upstream
software.
To put it bluntly, if this isn't obvious by now, this thread is pointless.
It
is pointless only if the developers chose not to listen to what the
user base is saying. There is no obligation on them to do what this or
any thread suggests. But I would think they would want to know the
reaction to the "direction of upstream software".
7:58 p.m.
On 9/2/2011 6:06 AM, Mike Wohlgemuth wrote:
On 09/02/2011 02:51 AM, Paul Allen Newell wrote:
> Hum ... I find it a difficult proposition to ask users "to step up and
> do it" when the march of progress indicates that it wasn't the users
> that asked for this change. Change may be good, but I think alot of the
> feedback on this forum has shown that the cliche of "not ready for prime
> time" is valid for a significant number of folks hitting Gnome3 in F15.
>
> Full disclosure comment: I have not moved to F15 because of what I have
> read on this forum. I am hoping F16 gets a better response.
>
> Paul
Fedora is a volunteer organization. What everyone volunteered for is
clearly spelled out. It is hard sometimes keeping up with all the
changes that happen, and sometimes those changes get into Fedora before
they are "not ready for prime time". That is not a bug with Fedora,
that is a feature. It attempts to be the distribution to go to when you
absolutely want the latest with all its warts, and when long term
support is not an issue for you.
It is very easy to like having all the latest stuff until something
breaks or some new, radically different version of something (big or
small) comes out and disrupts the way you like to work. Every so often
something big changes, like Gnome or KDE, and people start asking the
devs to extend support for their favorite version. Attempts have been
made in the past to provide this sort of support, and they have failed
due to lack of interest in doing the actual work. I am not now, and
have never been, a Fedora dev, but my guess is that any of the ones who
might be inclined to provide longer term support would know the history
and be very wary of even considering it.
That is why you will often see people on this list recommend that
someone actually choose a disto other than Fedora for their suggested
use case. It is not because the people making the recommendation don't
like Fedora, but that they realize that there are often cases where
concerns about having quick access to the latest software are trumped by
needs for a stable, long term platform. When you make the choice to
install Fedora in an environment that needs long term stability, you are
implicitly assuming extra responsibility and extra effort on your part.
Woogie
Woggie:
By using Fedora, I certainly accept everything that you state in your
email (and have since FC5). I believe the developers (Fedora, Gnome,
KDE, etc.) are making the best decisions they can in moving forward and
that, yes, there will be bumps. In my opinion, Gnome3 in Fedora 15 has
been a pretty major bump given the continuous threads expressing concern.
I feel voicing the concern about wanting to keep F14 supported for just
security updates as the original email is valid feedback to the
developers about how its user base is viewing this forward progress.
They may not be able to do it owing to amount of work involved (and/or
other reasons), but the awareness that the noise level on this forum
about Gnome3 / F15 is high is important.
I wish to clarify that I do not take the original postings view of
"waiting for F17". I am gambling on F16 being in alot better shape in
regards to all this given awareness of all the concern expressed in many
threads.
Paul
Paul
3:24 p.m.
On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 2:28 PM, Robert Marcano <robert(a)marcanoonline.com>wrote:
On 09/01/2011 08:44 PM, Robert Arkiletian wrote:
> I run Fedora in school computer lab. I cannot upgrade to F15 because
> of gnome3. In order to help the community stay with Fedora, could
> security updates for F14 be provided until F17 is released?
> Hopefully by then gnome3 will be fully baked.
>
I do not see this happening. My recommendation, play with dconf default
settings on a Fedora 15 installation and force all users the fallback
GNOME session
[org/gnome/desktop/session]
session-name='gnome-fallback'
This is what we are doing, not because we do not like GNOME 3, just that
we need gradually train people about the new UI. GNOME Fallback session
is enough GNOME 2 like for the average user
My vote is on this. Alternatively, tweak Gnome shell: install *tint2* for a
taskbar and install *gnome-shell-extension-apps-menu* for a normal apps
menu. It should also be easy to remove the hot corner (I'm guessing that
since there is code to add another corner
on gnome-shell-extension-righthotcorner).
--
Pedro
8:29 a.m.
On 09/02/2011 12:21 PM, Paul Allen Newell wrote:
Hum ... I find it a difficult proposition to ask users "to step up and
do it" when the march of progress indicates that it wasn't the users
that asked for this change.
That may well be the case and Fedora doesn't really have a choice in that
matter either however "voting" for it isn't really going to bringe
resources
necessary to extend the updates cycle. It still requires a group of people
to work together to do it. Changes in Fedora as is common with free and
open source projects happen because people volunteered and contributed their
time and effort. I don't personally have a need for extending the updates
cycle but if there is a team of people interested in that, I would be happy
to do my part. I just don't see a whole lot of people interested in that
however.
Rahul
8:28 a.m.
On 09/01/2011 08:44 PM, Robert Arkiletian wrote:
I run Fedora in school computer lab. I cannot upgrade to F15 because
of gnome3. In order to help the community stay with Fedora, could
security updates for F14 be provided until F17 is released?
Hopefully by then gnome3 will be fully baked.
I do not see this happening. My recommendation, play with dconf default
settings on a Fedora 15 installation and force all users the fallback
GNOME session
[org/gnome/desktop/session]
session-name='gnome-fallback'
This is what we are doing, not because we do not like GNOME 3, just that
we need gradually train people about the new UI. GNOME Fallback session
is enough GNOME 2 like for the average user
8:06 a.m.
On 09/02/2011 02:51 AM, Paul Allen Newell wrote:
Hum ... I find it a difficult proposition to ask users "to step
up and
do it" when the march of progress indicates that it wasn't the users
that asked for this change. Change may be good, but I think alot of the
feedback on this forum has shown that the cliche of "not ready for prime
time" is valid for a significant number of folks hitting Gnome3 in F15.
Full disclosure comment: I have not moved to F15 because of what I have
read on this forum. I am hoping F16 gets a better response.
Paul
Fedora is a volunteer organization. What everyone volunteered for is
clearly spelled out. It is hard sometimes keeping up with all the
changes that happen, and sometimes those changes get into Fedora before
they are "not ready for prime time". That is not a bug with Fedora,
that is a feature. It attempts to be the distribution to go to when you
absolutely want the latest with all its warts, and when long term
support is not an issue for you.
It is very easy to like having all the latest stuff until something
breaks or some new, radically different version of something (big or
small) comes out and disrupts the way you like to work. Every so often
something big changes, like Gnome or KDE, and people start asking the
devs to extend support for their favorite version. Attempts have been
made in the past to provide this sort of support, and they have failed
due to lack of interest in doing the actual work. I am not now, and
have never been, a Fedora dev, but my guess is that any of the ones who
might be inclined to provide longer term support would know the history
and be very wary of even considering it.
That is why you will often see people on this list recommend that
someone actually choose a disto other than Fedora for their suggested
use case. It is not because the people making the recommendation don't
like Fedora, but that they realize that there are often cases where
concerns about having quick access to the latest software are trumped by
needs for a stable, long term platform. When you make the choice to
install Fedora in an environment that needs long term stability, you are
implicitly assuming extra responsibility and extra effort on your part.
Woogie
7:51 a.m.
On 09/01/2011 09:14 PM, Robert Arkiletian wrote:
I run Fedora in school computer lab. I cannot upgrade to F15 because
of gnome3. In order to help the community stay with Fedora, could
security updates for F14 be provided until F17 is released?
Hopefully by then gnome3 will be fully baked.
If you have an environment that requires longer life cycles, have you
considered CentOS 6? It, and it's upstream distro, are roughly
equivalent to Fedora 12 (with many, many changes). It will be supported
for another six years or so, iirc. That should leave you with a platform
you will find familiar.
--
Digimer
E-Mail: digimer(a)alteeve.com
Freenode handle: digimer
Papers and Projects: http://alteeve.com
Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org
"At what point did we forget that the Space Shuttle was, essentially,
a program that strapped human beings to an explosion and tried to stab
through the sky with fire and math?"
2:22 a.m.
On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 9:51 AM, Paul Allen Newell <pnewell(a)cs.cmu.edu> wrote:
On 9/1/2011 11:43 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> On 09/02/2011 06:44 AM, Robert Arkiletian wrote:
>> I run Fedora in school computer lab. I cannot upgrade to F15 because
>> of gnome3. In order to help the community stay with Fedora, could
>> security updates for F14 be provided until F17 is released?
>> Hopefully by then gnome3 will be fully baked.
> The only real way to vote for such issues is to step up and do it. It
> is a lot of work to extend the updates cycle for a distribution.
>
> Rahul
Hum ... I find it a difficult proposition to ask users "to step up and
do it" when the march of progress indicates that it wasn't the users
that asked for this change. Change may be good, but I think alot of the
feedback on this forum has shown that the cliche of "not ready for prime
time" is valid for a significant number of folks hitting Gnome3 in F15.
Full disclosure comment: I have not moved to F15 because of what I have
That would be nice, but I doubt Fedora devs will do it.
1:51 a.m.
On 9/1/2011 11:43 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
On 09/02/2011 06:44 AM, Robert Arkiletian wrote:
> I run Fedora in school computer lab. I cannot upgrade to F15 because
> of gnome3. In order to help the community stay with Fedora, could
> security updates for F14 be provided until F17 is released?
> Hopefully by then gnome3 will be fully baked.
The only real way to vote for such issues is to step up and do it. It
is a lot of work to extend the updates cycle for a distribution.
Rahul
Hum ... I find it a difficult proposition to ask users "to step up and
do it" when the march of progress indicates that it wasn't the users
that asked for this change. Change may be good, but I think alot of the
feedback on this forum has shown that the cliche of "not ready for prime
time" is valid for a significant number of folks hitting Gnome3 in F15.
Full disclosure comment: I have not moved to F15 because of what I have
read on this forum. I am hoping F16 gets a better response.
Paul
1:43 a.m.
On 09/02/2011 06:44 AM, Robert Arkiletian wrote:
I run Fedora in school computer lab. I cannot upgrade to F15 because
of gnome3. In order to help the community stay with Fedora, could
security updates for F14 be provided until F17 is released?
Hopefully by then gnome3 will be fully baked.
The only real way to vote for such issues is to step up and do it. It
is a lot of work to extend the updates cycle for a distribution.
Rahul
4:44 p.m.
On 09/05/2011 02:55 PM, Robert Arkiletian wrote:
On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 10:24 AM, Gregory P. Ennis
<PoMec(a)pomec.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 2011-09-02 at 08:18 +0200, Christopher Svanefalk wrote:
>> On 09/02/2011 04:25 AM, Peter G. wrote:
>>> Robert Arkiletian wrote:
>>>
>>>> I run Fedora in school computer lab. I cannot upgrade to F15 because
>>>> of gnome3.
>>> Boo hoo.
>>>
>> He is not alone
> I agree, there are a lot of us that would like to extend F14. The
> hardware requirements for F15 make a lot of equipment unusable; for sure
> these machines may be obsolete anyway, but one of the nice things about
> Fedora was that it would function on this equipment which meant a
> desktop could be put together very cheaply and used effectively with
> great software.
>
> I understand that transitions related to enhancements should occur, and
> in fact are required to occur. What Fedora has done in this area is
> great!!!! However, some of us would sill like F14 to last another couple
> years :)
Well let's be realistic. An extra 6 months of *only* security updates
would be super. Time enough for F17.
gnome3 is an issue for ME because I introduced Linux to my school
populace 6 years ago. Students and staff have associated gnome2 with
Linux. They slowly got used to it. Now if I put gnome3 in front of
them, I can just imagine all the calls I'm going to get. "How do you
do this? It's different. What happened? Why can't I _____? ....."
It seems to me that this is really the kind of environment in which one
should be using CentOS, or some other distro that values stability.
Fedora just isn't that kind of distro. I don't use it on my servers,
because I want them to keep doing what they do with minimal intervention
from me.
Richard
3:45 a.m.
On 09/06/2011 12:38 AM, Joe Zeff wrote:
On a side note, all too many of the devs either expect everybody
else
to know how to program as well as they do, or use the comment "If you
don't like it, why don't you fix it yourself?" as a putdown to the
rest of us who don't agree with what they've done, or would like minor
changes made.
Extending the update cycle does not really require programming knowledge
much. It requires the interest to learn packaging and deal with minor
patches mostly from time to time
Rahul
4635
days inactive
4639
days old
38 comments
21 participants
participants (21)
-
Alan Cox -
Christopher Svanefalk -
Digimer -
Fernando Cassia -
Gregory P. Ennis -
Joe Zeff -
Kevin Fenzi -
Michael Cronenworth -
Mike Wohlgemuth -
n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 -
Pasha R -
Paul Allen Newell -
Pedro Francisco -
Peter G. -
Rahul Sundaram -
Richard Heck -
Richard Hughes -
Robert Arkiletian -
Robert Marcano -
Suvayu Ali -
Terry Polzin