5:45 p.m.
G'day all,
Just a quick email question. For the second time my subscription to
this list has been suspended due to excessive bounces. When it happened
last year I thought I had it fixed by making sure Evolution removed the
emails from the server.
But it happened again this week. I checked the mail from the ISP web
site and no mail stored there, not even as marked for deletion. I have
mailed the list administrator, but thought someone here may have
suggestions in the meantime.
Is there some more check boxes in Evolution to be checked? What couses
bouncing, excessive or not? Has Tigger got into my system somewhere?
--
Regards
Simon
PS For those without young children...
"Bouncing is what Tiggers do best!"
5:55 p.m.
Simon Slater wrote:
G'day all,
Just a quick email question. For the second time my subscription to
this list has been suspended due to excessive bounces. When it happened
last year I thought I had it fixed by making sure Evolution removed the
emails from the server.
But it happened again this week. I checked the mail from the ISP
web
site and no mail stored there, not even as marked for deletion. I have
mailed the list administrator, but thought someone here may have
suggestions in the meantime.
Is there some more check boxes in Evolution to be checked? What
couses
bouncing, excessive or not? Has Tigger got into my system somewhere?
Tigger must love Comcast because they've bounced every mail list I
was on. I've since moved much of my email off of Comcast because
of their lousy service. I could try and complain but the tier 1
folks will have no clue as to what I am talking about and it will
never get past them. Grrrr!
--
Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry(a)linuxha.com
http://www.linuxha.com/ Main site
http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog
Author of: Linux Smart Homes For Dummies
1:04 a.m.
On Fri, 2007-10-26 at 08:45 +1000, Simon Slater wrote:
What couses bouncing, excessive or not?
If it's not your mailbox filling up, and being unable to accept more
mail until you clear it, then it's your ISP not accepting mail (perhaps
for similar reasons, but not your mailbox individually - such as their
entire mail file system being too full or too busy, or implementing bad
thought out anti-spam procedures). A third reason might be something
between your ISP and the list, but I suspect the second reason is
probably the one.
About your only recourse for the second reason (it's the ISP), is to
change where you receive your mail. Sign up for another mail account,
somewhere, and use that for receiving list mail. Otherwise, you'd have
to try and convince your ISP to lift their game (good luck with that).
--
(This computer runs FC7, my others run FC4, FC5 & FC6, in case that's
important to the thread.)
Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored.
I read messages from the public lists.
2:45 a.m.
On Fri, 2007-10-26 at 15:34 +0930, Tim wrote:
About your only recourse for the second reason (it's the ISP), is
to
change where you receive your mail. Sign up for another mail account,
somewhere, and use that for receiving list mail. Otherwise, you'd
have
to try and convince your ISP to lift their game (good luck with that).
Another half an hour on their queue! Anyone recommend a good ISP in
Australia? We are currently thinking about going ADSL since it is now
available where we are. A plan including 10 email adresses and enough
download for Fedora ISOs would be great. I would like to get into
testing new releases.
--
Regards
Simon
3:20 a.m.
Tim:
> About your only recourse for the second reason (it's the
ISP), is to
> change where you receive your mail. Sign up for another mail account,
> somewhere, and use that for receiving list mail. Otherwise, you'd
> have to try and convince your ISP to lift their game (good luck with that).
Simon Slater:
Another half an hour on their queue! Anyone recommend a good ISP
in
Australia? We are currently thinking about going ADSL since it is now
available where we are. A plan including 10 email adresses and enough
download for Fedora ISOs would be great. I would like to get into
testing new releases.
To be honest, go for a mail service outside of your ISP. They're often
better, as that's all that they do, and you don't have to lose an email
address you want to keep if your ISP sucks.
Having said that, Internode gets good comments from those that I know
that use it. Adam seemed to have POP3 mail servers that stop working
throughout the day, over and over, though I haven't seen that error
message in the fetchmail information for a while, and everything else
about them seems okay. Optus is forever getting black banned across the
world for doing sweet-Fanny-Adams to control spammers in their midst (so
mail sent through their SMTP servers often disappears into a black
hole), which is really crap considering that they're a major backbone
for the whole country, and behind many smaller ISPs who really just
resell Optus services under their own names. Both Telstra and Optus
have a reputation for refusing to admit when they have service problems,
telling you that it's your fault (standard advice is "reinstall your
Windows TCP/IP software or reconfigure it"), but when you finally get
back on, however you manage to do so, you'd find their own news groups
had quite a number of messages from other users about the same thing (so
clearly the ISP did have faults). I've heard mixed reports about
Chariot (being fair to okay, but I haven't heard about them being awful
for a number of years). Ihug was always shocking (large delays in
resolving names, no route between you and the remote side, their
satellite going down, and they try to make you pay for an extra month
when you tell them you're dropping them). And I can't recall the
reports about any other ISPs.
But you really should have said what state you are in. Even ISPs that
are across the country can be different in different states.
If you're contemplating ADSL, have a look at the Whirlpool forums.
Though, be warned, like all web forums it's a mess of things to look
through.
--
(This computer runs FC7, my others run FC4, FC5 & FC6, in case that's
important to the thread.)
Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored.
I read messages from the public lists.
4:32 a.m.
On Fri, 2007-10-26 at 17:50 +0930, Tim wrote:
But you really should have said what state you are in. Even ISPs
that
are across the country can be different in different states.
We're in northwest Victoria on the Murray. Our email use has only
really started the last few years when we bought 500 bulk hours from a
local ISP who was taken over by Eftel. No problems with them. When
those hours ran out we took an unlimited deal with AAPT who have done
our phones for years. Funny, that you need a packed lunch before
calling for assistance. The volume has only been big since using Linux
(this list) but more of our business stuff is being moved from fax to
email. I'm still researching, though. Thinking about an IMAP server to
make separating different peoples mail. It all comes through this box
now.
--
Regards
Simon
6:30 a.m.
Simon Slater wrote:
G'day all,
Just a quick email question. For the second time my subscription to
this list has been suspended due to excessive bounces. When it happened
last year I thought I had it fixed by making sure Evolution removed the
emails from the server.
But it happened again this week. I checked the mail from the ISP web
site and no mail stored there, not even as marked for deletion. I have
mailed the list administrator, but thought someone here may have
suggestions in the meantime.
Is there some more check boxes in Evolution to be checked? What couses
bouncing, excessive or not? Has Tigger got into my system somewhere?
You may subscribe to nntp://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.redhat.fedora.general with
thunderbird or another
newsreader. You can even send mails over that newsserver to the list. So you can switch
off the mail delivery
from the mailing list. No more bounces, no overloaded Inboxes.
5:50 p.m.
On 10/26/07, Tim <ignored_mailbox(a)yahoo.com.au> wrote:
On Fri, 2007-10-26 at 08:45 +1000, Simon Slater wrote:
> What couses bouncing, excessive or not?
If it's not your mailbox filling up, and being unable to accept more
mail until you clear it, then it's your ISP not accepting mail (perhaps
for similar reasons, but not your mailbox individually - such as their
entire mail file system being too full or too busy, or implementing bad
thought out anti-spam procedures). A third reason might be something
between your ISP and the list, but I suspect the second reason is
probably the one.
About your only recourse for the second reason (it's the ISP), is to
change where you receive your mail. Sign up for another mail account,
somewhere, and use that for receiving list mail. Otherwise, you'd have
to try and convince your ISP to lift their game (good luck with that).
--
I suggest looking at Gmail. I use it for this list and a few others.
Once you catch on to the concept of labels it's smooth sailing. I
love that I can search my emails with Google. And it does an
excellent job in threading all the messages so it's easy to read an
entire thread.
Jacques B.
5:25 p.m.
On Fri, 2007-10-26 at 18:50 -0400, Jacques B. wrote:
On 10/26/07, Tim <ignored_mailbox(a)yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> On Fri, 2007-10-26 at 08:45 +1000, Simon Slater wrote:
> > What couses bouncing, excessive or not?
>
> If it's not your mailbox filling up, and being unable to accept more
> mail until you clear it, then it's your ISP not accepting mail (perhaps
> for similar reasons, but not your mailbox individually - such as their
> entire mail file system being too full or too busy, or implementing bad
> thought out anti-spam procedures). A third reason might be something
> between your ISP and the list, but I suspect the second reason is
> probably the one.
>
> About your only recourse for the second reason (it's the ISP), is to
> change where you receive your mail. Sign up for another mail account,
> somewhere, and use that for receiving list mail. Otherwise, you'd have
> to try and convince your ISP to lift their game (good luck with that).
>
>
> --
I suggest looking at Gmail. I use it for this list and a few others.
Once you catch on to the concept of labels it's smooth sailing. I
love that I can search my emails with Google. And it does an
excellent job in threading all the messages so it's easy to read an
entire thread.
Jacques B.
Thanks Tim, Harald & Jaques for the info. Just on the technical side, what
actually causes the bounce? If my allocation on the ISP is full I
understand that. Otherwise is it their spam filtering (like in the
concurrent iptables thread)?...
--
Regards
Simon
9:23 a.m.
On Mon, 2007-10-29 at 09:25 +1100, Simon Slater wrote:
Just on the technical side, what actually causes the bounce? If my
allocation on the ISP is full I understand that. Otherwise is it
their spam filtering
That's one likely reason (your mailbox being too full at the time). It
could also be that the entire ISP's mail system was too full or too
busy, from time to time. Or there was a networking problem between your
ISP and the list.
If your ISP uses greylisting, it rejects initial postings expecting the
sending server to try again, later. Some senders will take the initial
rejection and never try again. Some will try again later, but the
"later" could be minutes, hours, or days later. If the ISP uses really
crap greylisting, it might reject the resend, too.
There's other anti-spam techniques that can backfire, too. If they
don't like the look of the mail (mail not addressed "to" one of their
users, as list mail isn't; the same message being received by many of
their users; mail coming from lists, etc.). Some spam filtering is
less-than well thought out.
--
(This box runs FC5, my others run FC4 & FC6, in case that's
important to the thread.)
Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored.
I read messages from the public lists.
6:40 p.m.
On Tue, 2007-10-30 at 00:53 +1030, Tim wrote:
On Mon, 2007-10-29 at 09:25 +1100, Simon Slater wrote:
> Just on the technical side, what actually causes the bounce? If my
> allocation on the ISP is full I understand that. Otherwise is it
> their spam filtering
That's one likely reason (your mailbox being too full at the time). It
could also be that the entire ISP's mail system was too full or too
busy, from time to time. Or there was a networking problem between your
ISP and the list.
If your ISP uses greylisting, it rejects initial postings expecting the
sending server to try again, later. Some senders will take the initial
rejection and never try again. Some will try again later, but the
"later" could be minutes, hours, or days later. If the ISP uses really
crap greylisting, it might reject the resend, too.
There's other anti-spam techniques that can backfire, too. If they
don't like the look of the mail (mail not addressed "to" one of their
users, as list mail isn't; the same message being received by many of
their users; mail coming from lists, etc.). Some spam filtering is
less-than well thought out.
Thanks Tim.
--
Regards
Simon
4:23 p.m.
On Fri, 2007-10-26 at 13:30 +0200, Harald Hoyer wrote:
Simon Slater wrote:
> G'day all,
>
> Just a quick email question. For the second time my subscription to
> this list has been suspended due to excessive bounces. When it happened
> last year I thought I had it fixed by making sure Evolution removed the
> emails from the server.
>
> But it happened again this week. I checked the mail from the ISP web
> site and no mail stored there, not even as marked for deletion. I have
> mailed the list administrator, but thought someone here may have
> suggestions in the meantime.
>
> Is there some more check boxes in Evolution to be checked? What couses
> bouncing, excessive or not? Has Tigger got into my system somewhere?
>
>
You may subscribe to nntp://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.redhat.fedora.general with
thunderbird or another
newsreader. You can even send mails over that newsserver to the list. So you can switch
off the mail delivery
from the mailing list. No more bounces, no overloaded Inboxes.
I've never subcribed to a news group, so this may be a good way to
start. I'll check it out.
--
Regards
Simon
4:27 p.m.
On Fri, 2007-10-26 at 17:45 +1000, Simon Slater wrote:
> somewhere, and use that for receiving list mail. Otherwise,
you'd
> have
> to try and convince your ISP to lift their game (good luck with
that).
>
Another half an hour on their queue! Anyone recommend a good
ISP in
Australia? We are currently thinking about going ADSL since it is now
available where we are. A plan including 10 email adresses and enough
download for Fedora ISOs would be great. I would like to get into
testing new releases.
I've had a reply from the ISP. For them to investigate they need:
"We need you to request the bounce back email they have received or the
full error message they have received while trying to send you mail."
How do I get that information?
--
Regards
Simon
10:48 p.m.
On Fri, 2007-11-09 at 09:27 +1100, Simon Slater wrote:
I've had a reply from the ISP. For them to investigate they
need:
"We need you to request the bounce back email they have received or the
full error message they have received while trying to send you mail."
How do I get that information?
If this list runs like some other mailing lists, you could try posting a
message for help to <fedora-list-owner(a)redhat.com> (to contact the
person in charge of this particular list).
--
[tim@bigblack ~]$ uname -ipr
2.6.23.1-10.fc7 i686 i386
Using FC 4, 5, 6 & 7, plus CentOS 5. Today, it's FC7.
Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored.
I read messages from the public lists.
10:54 p.m.
Simon Slater wrote:
On Fri, 2007-10-26 at 15:34 +0930, Tim wrote:
> About your only recourse for the second reason (it's the ISP), is to
> change where you receive your mail. Sign up for another mail account,
> somewhere, and use that for receiving list mail. Otherwise, you'd
> have
> to try and convince your ISP to lift their game (good luck with that).
>
Another half an hour on their queue! Anyone recommend a good ISP in
Australia? We are currently thinking about going ADSL since it is now
available where we are. A plan including 10 email adresses and enough
download for Fedora ISOs would be great. I would like to get into
testing new releases.
Internode.
I'm with Westnet, have been for years, but they seriously stuffed
provisioning my ADSL and undid all the "political capital" (to quote
George Dubya) from over the years. But for concerns over
disconnexion/transfer ("churning" doesn't apply to ADSl2) I was ready to
repudiate my contract.
Internode has a good reputation, and importantly, is an official mirror
for some of the software you so like to download.
_I_ run my own mail service.
--
Cheers
John
-- spambait
1aaaaaaa(a)coco.merseine.nu Z1aaaaaaa(a)coco.merseine.nu
-- Advice
http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375
Please do not reply off-list
11:04 p.m.
Simon Slater wrote:
On Fri, 2007-10-26 at 17:45 +1000, Simon Slater wrote:
>> somewhere, and use that for receiving list mail. Otherwise, you'd
>> have
>> to try and convince your ISP to lift their game (good luck with
> that).
> Another half an hour on their queue! Anyone recommend a good
> ISP in
> Australia? We are currently thinking about going ADSL since it is now
> available where we are. A plan including 10 email adresses and enough
> download for Fedora ISOs would be great. I would like to get into
> testing new releases.
>
I've had a reply from the ISP. For them to investigate they need:
"We need you to request the bounce back email they have received or the
full error message they have received while trying to send you mail."
How do I get that information?
Good luck.
If appt is any good, they should be able to get the info they need from
their own logs.
I don't know anything about aapt, my concern with them has always been
that it's a news service with a good network, that they decided to
leverage for extra business. It's still a news service though.
I should also mention iiNet's good, and if you're a business you really
should check them out. A couple of good points:
1. You can buy shares - see IIN.
2. If you write to The Boss (Michael Malone), he's write back. If you
have a problem, he'll detail someone to fix it. No mucking about.
3. MM is a geek who happens also to be a good businessman.
research websites. Look for what to do when things go wrong. iiNet has
an escalation procedure, and it ends with Michael.
Oh, it's not a discount operation. They set their prices and stick to
them. They also tend to lead the way with new technology. Check the ASX
for iiNet's reports, some of them are quite interesting.
--
Cheers
John
-- spambait
1aaaaaaa(a)coco.merseine.nu Z1aaaaaaa(a)coco.merseine.nu
-- Advice
http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375
Please do not reply off-list
11:59 p.m.
On Fri, 2007-11-09 at 14:04 +0900, John Summerfield wrote:
> How do I get that information?
>
>
Good luck.
Thanks, I'll check that out. We got a call from Bigpond yesterday
selling a you-beaut superfast extra large download ADLS plan, 3 months
free with a free dinky router. Have'nt heard much good about Bigpond,
but downloading F8 might be a good test for them in the 10 day no
obligation period. I forgot to ask about churning.
--
Regards
Simon
12:44 a.m.
Simon Slater wrote:
On Fri, 2007-11-09 at 14:04 +0900, John Summerfield wrote:
>> How do I get that information?
>>
>>
> Good luck.
>
Thanks, I'll check that out. We got a call from Bigpond yesterday
selling a you-beaut superfast extra large download ADLS plan, 3 months
free with a free dinky router. Have'nt heard much good about Bigpond,
but downloading F8 might be a good test for them in the 10 day no
obligation period. I forgot to ask about churning.
psst
Wanna buy some shares:-)
Check Telstra's pricing. Check how well Sol and Los Trios Amigos get
along with the government. Check the plan to increase Sol's salary.
Check the board's response to the recent AGM resolution opposing it.
Note to the world. Telstra is the major Australian telco, recently
floated. It's boss's (Texan, I think) favourite pastimes are insisting
the Trade Practices Act should not apply to it and fighting the
government over regulation. AFAIK I can't have Telstra ADSL2 where I sit
not (but I have it with Westnet who resells Optus) (Telstra owns the
wire). 500 metres away I can't have ADSL at all. If I can't have ADSL2
from Telstra here, then I can't have more than 8 Mbits. OTOH my ADSL2
operates at about 1.2 Megabytes/sec.
This ridiculous situation arises because others (iiNet was the first,
but Powertel and Optus do it too) install their own digital equipment in
Telstra exchanges.
Oh, I'm in metropolitan Perth and I can see the city from my front verandah.
Two years ago, T was going to implement some long-range stuff to extend
the reach of ADSL, but then decided not to, probably because it couldn't
extort Optus, iiNet, Wesnet and the others.
To the best of my knowledge, this did not happen:
http://whirlpool.net.au/article.cfm?id=871&show=custom
Here's why I might not be able to have telstra ADSL2 here:
http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/communications/soa/Telstra-uncaps-ADSL-broad...
If I can, it's because I don't have to, I can have (resold) Optus or
Powertel. The "regulatory constraints" mean that T must wholesale the
service to its competitors (T owns the wire).
http://www.tellthetruthtelstra.com.au/www/365/1001127/displayarticle/1002...
Probably the most farcical thing of all is that, when the govt called
for tenders to provide a nation-wide high-speed broadband network,
Telstra deliberately lodged a non-compliant tender, to that when it
lost, it could sue the government.
How do I know this? It lost, it sued, and when the government used the
judicial process to go fishing, it found internal Telstra documents to
that effect, and they turned up in court.
--
Cheers
John
-- spambait
1aaaaaaa(a)coco.merseine.nu Z1aaaaaaa(a)coco.merseine.nu
-- Advice
http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375
Please do not reply off-list
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17 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
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Harald Hoyer -
Jacques B. -
John Summerfield -
Neil Cherry -
Simon Slater -
Tim