2:44 p.m.
When I transfer my open office documents to other platforms the font
size ( rendered ) is changing, causing the formating to go wrong. A
10pt font under the Linux platform is shorter than that shown when
running Open Office on Windows/Solaris (Gnome). On Linux I'm getting 2
more lines per page in a text document :-)
I tried to standardise using Microsoft's Arial font, but still the same
problem. I've also tried exporting to PDF. It becomes particularly
confusing on conference calls when I refer to a page in a document that
doesn't match with any one else.
Strangely for presentations - the text on Linux seems to bigger and flow
off the bottom of the slide.
Any ideas what is causing this ? I 'm using FC5 with all the latest
updates.
Thanks
Andy
6:22 p.m.
On Mon, 2006-08-28 at 20:44 +0100, Andy Campbell wrote:
When I transfer my open office documents to other platforms the font
size ( rendered ) is changing, causing the formating to go wrong.
The problem is that Fedora and MS Windows have different fonts
installed. Installing the MS Windows fonts on Fedora should fix this.
Instructions here:
http://www.mjmwired.net/resources/mjm-fedora-fc5.html#ttf
2:17 p.m.
Brian Mury wrote:
On Mon, 2006-08-28 at 20:44 +0100, Andy Campbell wrote:
> When I transfer my open office documents to other platforms the font
> size ( rendered ) is changing, causing the formating to go wrong.
>
The problem is that Fedora and MS Windows have different fonts
installed. Installing the MS Windows fonts on Fedora should fix this.
Instructions here:
http://www.mjmwired.net/resources/mjm-fedora-fc5.html#ttf
Thats why I tried using Arial, as it was one the MS Windows fonts,
installed as per
the link - but no joy.
Andy
8 p.m.
On Mon, 2006-08-28 at 20:44 +0100, Andy Campbell wrote:
When I transfer my open office documents to other platforms the font
size ( rendered ) is changing, causing the formating to go wrong. A
10pt font under the Linux platform is shorter than that shown when
running Open Office on Windows/Solaris (Gnome). On Linux I'm getting
2 more lines per page in a text document :-)
No doubt due to different fonts on each, even if they have the same
names.
Are the lines the same widths? Point sizing generally refers to
characters per inch across the page.
--
(Currently running FC4, occasionally trying FC5.)
Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored.
I read messages from the public lists.
11:59 p.m.
Tim wrote:
On Mon, 2006-08-28 at 20:44 +0100, Andy Campbell wrote:
> When I transfer my open office documents to other platforms the font
> size ( rendered ) is changing, causing the formating to go wrong. A
> 10pt font under the Linux platform is shorter than that shown when
> running Open Office on Windows/Solaris (Gnome). On Linux I'm getting
> 2 more lines per page in a text document :-)
>
No doubt due to different fonts on each, even if they have the same
names.
Are the lines the same widths? Point sizing generally refers to
characters per inch across the page.
I don't believe that is true unless it has changed since my days in
actual printing. The character size in points refers to the size from
the highest to the lowest extent of the letters of a given type face size.
I believe the "em" is the width measure sometimes used. It represented
the width of the widest character in a font. Usually W or M.
Characters per inch is only related to point size if the fonts are
monospace.
http://nwalsh.com/comp.fonts/FAQ/cf_8.htm
http://www.harmonize.com/probe/aids/manual/typography.htm
You also have to consider the display medium. DPI and aspect ratio of
the display device can wreak havoc on any document transfered across
systems.
--
--R
------------------------------------------------------------------------
/Linux, and Open Software, an alternative./
Registered Unix <http://counter.li.org> user #409453
2:30 a.m.
Tim:
> Are the lines the same widths? Point sizing generally refers to
> characters per inch across the page.
Richard England:
I don't believe that is true unless it has changed since my days
in
actual printing. The character size in points refers to the size from
the highest to the lowest extent of the letters of a given type face
size.
While the "size" of a font is, indeed, the entire size of the font,
points used in typing, generally, were just used as a measure of how
many would fit across a given width (10pt being the common one, 12pt
being the more compact, usually).
You also have to consider the display medium. DPI and aspect ratio of
the display device can wreak havoc on any document transfered across
systems.
Another consideration that word processor document files are just
storage of something on a particular PC (for later printing, etc.).
They really are not a portable document format. A different PC might
have different fonts, and will probably have a different printer (with
different minimum margins).
--
(Currently running FC4, occasionally trying FC5.)
Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored.
I read messages from the public lists.
7:30 a.m.
On Tue, 29 Aug 2006, Tim wrote:
Tim:
>> Are the lines the same widths? Point sizing generally refers to
>> characters per inch across the page.
Richard England:
> I don't believe that is true unless it has changed since my days in
> actual printing. The character size in points refers to the size from
> the highest to the lowest extent of the letters of a given type face
> size.
While the "size" of a font is, indeed, the entire size of the font,
points used in typing, generally, were just used as a measure of how
many would fit across a given width (10pt being the common one, 12pt
being the more compact, usually).
A point is 1/72 of an inch, and typface sizes are measured vertically.
Ten-point type is smaller than 12-point type.
Manual and electric typewriters of old usually came with one of two
fixed-width typefaces: Pica (10 chars per inch) and the more compact Elite
(12 cpi). (High-school students liked Pica typewriters better than Elite
because fewer words were needed to fill up that five-page essay. Today's
high-school students use the same trick.) (Adding to the confusion, a
pica is a measure equal to 1/6 of an inch.)
It doesn't make much sense with a variable-width font to talk about
measuring its size in terms of horizontal cpi.
> You also have to consider the display medium. DPI and aspect ratio of
> the display device can wreak havoc on any document transfered across
> systems.
Another consideration that word processor document files are just
storage of something on a particular PC (for later printing, etc.).
They really are not a portable document format. A different PC might
have different fonts, and will probably have a different printer (with
different minimum margins).
The problem of documents looking different on different systems is indeed
due to fonts, at least in large part. The different fonts usually differ
in terms of appearance (of course) and in terms of average width. Modern
printers usually have controllable margins and one of a few standard
dots-per-inch measures (and the information is recorded in the drivers),
so that's not so much of an issue. (Old daisy-wheel printers were another
matter entirely.) The issue is how typefaces are translated from their
vector descriptions to their pixel representations.
With screens, fonts are measured in points, but when they are drawn, they
are drawn using pixels. The font-drawing systems need to know the true
number of pixels per inch (ppi) in order to get the point size true. If a
system can't detect the ppi and the user doesn't set it, then the font
sizes on screens are likely to be (a) wrong and (b) different from screen
to screen--even when using the same software.
--
Matthew Saltzman
Clemson University Math Sciences
mjs AT clemson DOT edu
http://www.math.clemson.edu/~mjs
10:23 a.m.
On Tue, 2006-08-29 at 08:30 -0400, Matthew Saltzman wrote:
Modern printers usually have controllable margins and one of a few
standard dots-per-inch measures (and the information is recorded in
the drivers), so that's not so much of an issue.
I beg to differ that it's still a problem. I've come across quite a few
printers, that I'd still call modern, with differing abilities to print
close to the edge of the page, especially the tops and bottoms. I've
had the unpleasant task of having to reformat some very intricate pages
made up of tables inside of tables that were too big for the page.
Of course, if you do this in the Windows world, you've got even more to
worry about with files from another computer, than layout...
--
(Currently running FC4, in case that's important to the thread)
Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored.
I read messages from the public lists.
4:38 p.m.
Matthew Saltzman wrote:
On Tue, 29 Aug 2006, Tim wrote:
> Tim:
>>> Are the lines the same widths? Point sizing generally refers to
>>> characters per inch across the page.
>
> Richard England:
>> I don't believe that is true unless it has changed since my days in
>> actual printing. The character size in points refers to the size from
>> the highest to the lowest extent of the letters of a given type face
>> size.
>
> While the "size" of a font is, indeed, the entire size of the font,
> points used in typing, generally, were just used as a measure of how
> many would fit across a given width (10pt being the common one, 12pt
> being the more compact, usually).
A point is 1/72 of an inch, and typface sizes are measured vertically.
Ten-point type is smaller than 12-point type.
Manual and electric typewriters of old usually came with one of two
fixed-width typefaces: Pica (10 chars per inch) and the more compact
Elite (12 cpi). (High-school students liked Pica typewriters better
than Elite because fewer words were needed to fill up that five-page
essay. Today's high-school students use the same trick.) (Adding to
the confusion, a pica is a measure equal to 1/6 of an inch.)
It doesn't make much sense with a variable-width font to talk about
measuring its size in terms of horizontal cpi.
>
>> You also have to consider the display medium. DPI and aspect ratio of
>> the display device can wreak havoc on any document transfered across
>> systems.
>
> Another consideration that word processor document files are just
> storage of something on a particular PC (for later printing, etc.).
> They really are not a portable document format. A different PC might
> have different fonts, and will probably have a different printer (with
> different minimum margins).
The problem of documents looking different on different systems is
indeed due to fonts, at least in large part. The different fonts
usually differ in terms of appearance (of course) and in terms of
average width. Modern printers usually have controllable margins and
one of a few standard dots-per-inch measures (and the information is
recorded in the drivers), so that's not so much of an issue. (Old
daisy-wheel printers were another matter entirely.) The issue is how
typefaces are translated from their vector descriptions to their pixel
representations.
With screens, fonts are measured in points, but when they are drawn,
they are drawn using pixels. The font-drawing systems need to know
the true number of pixels per inch (ppi) in order to get the point
size true. If a system can't detect the ppi and the user doesn't set
it, then the font sizes on screens are likely to be (a) wrong and (b)
different from screen to screen--even when using the same software.
Ok. so explain this ....
Everyone else at work uses StarOffice, I've just been using OpenOffice
on my own machines as it get installed as standard on FC5. I've just
installed StarOffice on FC5, and with StarOffice the documents look and
print the same as every one at work. So it appears to be the Office
software and not OS/X related.
If I print the same document from OpenOffice and StarOffice and hold the
pages on top of each other and up to a light I can see the gradual creep
as one document goes out of sync with the other - but its very slight on
a line by line basis.
Now I thought StarOffice and OpenOffice had the same code base ? So I
would expect the font rendering to be the same.
Andy
5:13 p.m.
On Tue, 29 Aug 2006, Andy Campbell wrote:
Ok. so explain this ....
Everyone else at work uses StarOffice, I've just been using OpenOffice on my
own machines as it get installed as standard on FC5. I've just installed
StarOffice on FC5, and with StarOffice the documents look and print the same
as every one at work. So it appears to be the Office software and not OS/X
related.
If I print the same document from OpenOffice and StarOffice and hold the
pages on top of each other and up to a light I can see the gradual creep as
one document goes out of sync with the other - but its very slight on a line
by line basis.
Now I thought StarOffice and OpenOffice had the same code base ? So I would
expect the font rendering to be the same.
Some possibilities:
(At least it used to be that) one of the things you pay for when you buy
StarOffice is a library of fonts that are not included with OOo.
Some new features listed in SO8 relate to font rendering. These may be
enhancements to the OOo codebase, and there may be others.
Andy
--
Matthew Saltzman
Clemson University Math Sciences
mjs AT clemson DOT edu
http://www.math.clemson.edu/~mjs
10:34 p.m.
Tim <ignored_mailbox(a)yahoo.com.au> writes:
While the "size" of a font is, indeed, the entire size of
the font,
points used in typing, generally, were just used as a measure of how
many would fit across a given width (10pt being the common one, 12pt
being the more compact, usually).
You are mis-remembering the word "pitch" as "points". A 10 pitch
font is 10 characters per inch, and is larger than a 12-pitch font
(12 cpi).
--
Donald Arseneau asnd(a)triumf.ca
6478
days inactive
6480
days old
10 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
-
Andy Campbell -
Brian Mury -
Donald Arseneau -
Matthew Saltzman -
Richard England -
Tim