If they are not supposed to be watching the videos on the school computers, then block them at the firewall as our business does. When they cannot watch them on Windows it won't make any difference.
I think the point is that if Linux is to make a bigger dent in the Windows desktop, more things have to "just work". In a similar experiment to the one which started this thread, I slowly converted a non-technical family with three computers from windows to Linux and recorded the issues which came up. (http://www.swlink.net/~styma/LinuxForTheMasses.shtml) The current distributions of Linux still need a technical person to get things working. The technical person would still have no clue as to how to get these things working. Many of them require a fair amount of research on the web. I understand the reasons mp3's and wmv's don't play right out of the box, but to get "Joe Sixpack" using Linux requires an update process simple enough for "Joe Sixpack" to use to get this functionality working.
If making Linux really simple is not working out, another model might be to have pay subscriptions to remote maintenance services. The FC3 and FC4 boxes I maintain for my friends I can access remotely via SSH and VNC. On a Windows box, if tech support cannot talk you through the problem, the user ends up taking the box in and paying big bucks. ssh, /etc/hosts.allow, and iptables could provide a very effective support mechanism. On my friends boxes, I am the only one with the root password, not that they would understand what root was anyway.
Just my 2 cents worth. My point is that Linux needs to be simple in addition to being better.
Bob Styma
On Mon, 2005-10-31 at 10:21 -0600, STYMA, ROBERT E (ROBERT) wrote:
If they are not supposed to be watching the videos on the school computers, then block them at the firewall as our business does. When they cannot watch them on Windows it won't make any difference.
I think the point is that if Linux is to make a bigger dent in the Windows desktop, more things have to "just work". In a similar experiment to the one which started this thread, I slowly converted a non-technical family with three computers from windows to Linux and recorded the issues which came up. (http://www.swlink.net/~styma/LinuxForTheMasses.shtml) The current distributions of Linux still need a technical person to get things working. The technical person would still have no clue as to how to get these things working. Many of them require a fair amount of research on the web. I understand the reasons mp3's and wmv's don't play right out of the box, but to get "Joe Sixpack" using Linux requires an update process simple enough for "Joe Sixpack" to use to get this functionality working.
If making Linux really simple is not working out, another model might be to have pay subscriptions to remote maintenance services. The FC3 and FC4 boxes I maintain for my friends I can access remotely via SSH and VNC. On a Windows box, if tech support cannot talk you through the problem, the user ends up taking the box in and paying big bucks. ssh, /etc/hosts.allow, and iptables could provide a very effective support mechanism. On my friends boxes, I am the only one with the root password, not that they would understand what root was anyway.
Just my 2 cents worth. My point is that Linux needs to be simple in addition to being better.
---- Anticipation that a Linux Desktop is a easy swap replacement for Windows Desktop is simply a matter of expectations. It is what it is and where it is any given place in time. Railing here on this list is the equivalent to pissing in the wind.
The thread began with issues relating to proprietary software using proprietary codecs and if more people were using Linux, there would be more pressure to adopt codecs that Linux users could utilize without doing technical tango.
Then there are the issues with things like udev which changed with 2.6 kernel and now have changed again but things are getting worse in the effort to make them better but there is a lot of effort targeted towards users ability to load devices and I have faith that it will all come around.
Craig
--- "STYMA, ROBERT E (ROBERT)" stymar@lucent.com wrote:
If they are not supposed to be watching the videos
on the school
computers, then block them at the firewall as our
business
does. When they cannot watch them on Windows it won't make
any difference.
I think the point is that if Linux is to make a bigger dent in the Windows desktop, more things have to "just work". In a similar experiment to the one which started this thread, I slowly converted a non-technical family with three computers from windows to Linux and recorded the issues which came up.
(http://www.swlink.net/~styma/LinuxForTheMasses.shtml)
The current distributions of Linux still need a technical person to get things working. The technical person would still have no clue as to how to get these things working. Many of them require a fair amount of research on the web. I understand the reasons mp3's and wmv's don't play right out of the box, but to get "Joe Sixpack" using Linux requires an update process simple enough for "Joe Sixpack" to use to get this functionality working.
If making Linux really simple is not working out, another model might be to have pay subscriptions to remote maintenance services. The FC3 and FC4 boxes I maintain for my friends I can access remotely via SSH and VNC. On a Windows box, if tech support cannot talk you through the problem, the user ends up taking the box in and paying big bucks. ssh, /etc/hosts.allow, and iptables could provide a very effective support mechanism. On my friends boxes, I am the only one with the root password, not that they would understand what root was anyway.
Just my 2 cents worth. My point is that Linux needs to be simple in addition to being better.
Agreed, but like the quote from Euclid "There is no royal path in Mathematics", I would also compare this to linux "There is no royal path to Linux". Make it Fedora, Mandrake, Mepis, Debian, Knoppix, Kanotix, etc., There is a learning curve and actually, the more you learn the better and more technical you become. I have switched some of my friends to Linux, but actually they do not care how things work, they just want to hear mp3's and watch videos. With Mplayer + mplayer plugin, we have been very successful with the exception of yahoo music. However, I tell my friends and my students to just listen to streaming video from shoutcast.com, and bypass yahoo music and yahoo music videos.
Best Regards,
Antonio
Bob Styma
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Unattributed authors wrote:
If they are not supposed to be watching the videos on the school computers, then block them at the firewall as our business does. When they cannot watch them on Windows it won't make any difference.
STYMA, ROBERT E (ROBERT):
I think the point is that if Linux is to make a bigger dent in the Windows desktop, more things have to "just work".
Though there are cases, and this seems like one of them, where this is next to impossible. Not because Linux can't do the task, but because the server deliberately excludes clients. There's any number of internet services which are deliberately designed to only work with Windows, for no good reason. Not *just* because they can't figure out how to support everyone, but sometimes because they want to be deliberately obstructive.
Having said that, yes it's better if things work. The computer should be doing all of the if/then/else grunt work of making things work. The users shouldn't have to be configuring things to the nitty gritty detail, if they're not writing their own programs. Though this seems to be a problem with most personal computers, whatever OS is on them.
I'm not so sure that Linux even wants to be a direct replacement for Windows, just a viable alternative for those who want it. For those who want Windows, there is Windows.
In a similar experiment to the one which started this thread, I slowly converted a non-technical family with three computers from windows to Linux and recorded the issues which came up. (http://www.swlink.net/~styma/LinuxForTheMasses.shtml) The current distributions of Linux still need a technical person to get things working. The technical person would still have no clue as to how to get these things working. Many of them require a fair amount of research on the web.
I think this applies to Windows, too. There's an awful lot of really weird stuff that needs doing to keep Windows running. It takes someone quite techy to keep either system running smoothly, even more so to resolve some fault. But they're both usable, when working, by those who don't really know much about their computer.
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Antonio Olivares -
Craig White -
Styma, Robert E (Robert) -
Tim