Hello list,
Senior unix admin, but relatively fresh Linux admin. I run a fc8 box only for cross-compiling, as so many toolchains come pre-compiled for it.
However, today I found the need to finally upgrade. This is an account of what I went through, and not just meant as a bitch session.
I do not care about the OS, but it would be easier if all my toolchain installs and home directory contents remained.
I have a tiny /boot and the rest on a lv / system, setup by a colleague. This all runs on xen, but that is not really part of this email.
First I tried to use preupgrade, and I went through all the yum tasks to ensure I have the latest version of it and so on.
Then I ran preupgrade, I went straight for fc14. I was told that my /boot was too small. Of course it is! Still, it did say something about downloading it after reboot. Plus one for fc there.
Rebooting and it gives some obscure error about not finding previous system. Eh? Googling and crap, I finally find out how to get at the anaconda logs (it could have been mentioned by anaconda i think, instead of just 'error, click here to reboot')
In the end it said something about fc8 can not be upgraded. I still do not really know why, but google suggests I can not skip versions, I need to go to 9 first. preupgraded only lists 10 to 14. I try 10 anyway.
No difference at all. Bugger.
Right, so I download the fc14 ISO and try to do a install over the old OS, hoping to keep data. The installer does have an option to keep things, the second to last option, before custom.
It just notifies me that there are no places to install to, sorry.
I use custom, which at least gives me some clues. Apparently I can not install to a ext3 filesystem. This seems a really bad decision by someone. Essentially, it is just untaring files on an existing fs. To force a certain version seems really backwards.
I google for how to convert ext3 to ext4, and go through that. 2 hours later I am ready to try again.
I return back to the installer, the 4th option still does not work, so i go through custom. I manage to convince it to use my / and /boot. It installs, I reboot. No warnings about losing data, so I feel confident here.
Upon reboot it has no settings for network, ssh etc. So I go through the GUI to set network (I guess I am supposed to use GUI, even though I prefer to reach for ifconfig).
I look for a way to start SSH, and there do not appear to be any. Google said to use Administration/Services. But that does not exists. Huh, I actually have to start a shell to run /sbin/services sshd start. Minus one there.
Only to find that port 22 does not answer. I go through the usual checks to make sure it is running, and connects locally. I start the firewall GUI to confirm that port 22 is open, I even try without firewall. Still, no connection.
How strange. there is a cryptic message about iptables? I don't have services so I can not check using the GUI, so again I am forced to use shell to disable it. Finally I can login. minus one again.
Only to find everything has been wiped. Boo.
It was a major hassle for me, I feel sorry for fresh people trying fc14 for the first time. I feel there is room to make some improvements.
Anyway, I will zfs rollback to my fc8 and install something else.
good luck,
Just a few random comments. Dunno about preupgrade, and Fedora 8 is ancient and unlikely to be tested for system upgrades.
On Thu, 24 Feb 2011 19:13:01 +0900, Jorgen wrote:
I do not care about the OS, but it would be easier if all my toolchain installs and home directory contents remained.
Then make /home and e.g. /usr/local a separate mount. You can tell the installer about what to mount where and whether to format the mounted filesystems.
Upon reboot it has no settings for network, ssh etc. So I go through the GUI to set network (I guess I am supposed to use GUI, even though I prefer to reach for ifconfig).
If you prefer using ifconfig, feel free to use it, but be aware of services like NetworkManager, which you may need to disable first (or tell them to not control the network interfaces you want to manage yourself). This may include stopping NetworkManager completely and enabling the good old "network" service script.
I look for a way to start SSH, and there do not appear to be any. Google said to use Administration/Services. But that does not exists. Huh, I actually have to start a shell to run /sbin/services sshd start. Minus one there.
With "Administration/Services", do you refer to the GNOME menu "System > Administration > Services"?
If so, did your install add the following package?
$ rpm -q system-config-services system-config-services-0.99.47-1.fc14.noarch
Mine did.
Only to find that port 22 does not answer. I go through the usual checks to make sure it is running, and connects locally. I start the firewall GUI to confirm that port 22 is open, I even try without firewall. Still, no connection.
One usual check would have been to check what it was listening on.
Jorgen Lundman <lundman <at> lundman.net> writes:
.. Senior unix admin, but relatively fresh Linux admin. I run a fc8 box ... ... Then I ran preupgrade, I went straight for fc14. ...
I think you should know more about the OS you are dealing with. Fedora is a fast moving development distro, with frequent releases ... That would tell you your planned behaviour is "risque". And so you would not escape the wrath of Gods !
In the end it said something about fc8 can not be upgraded. I still do not really know why, but google suggests I can not skip versions, I need to go to 9 first. preupgraded only lists 10 to 14. I try 10 anyway. ...
Upon reboot it has no settings for network, ssh etc. So I go through the GUI to set network ... ... Huh, I actually have to start a shell to run /sbin/services sshd start. Minus one there. ...
I think you are joking ... Every sysadmin is expected to know that first (the GUI is an extra pleasure, if any according to some).
... How strange. there is a cryptic message about iptables? I don't have services so I can not check using the GUI, so again I am forced to use shell to disable it.
I think you are joking ...
Finally I can login. minus one again.
Only to find everything has been wiped. Boo.
It was a major hassle for me, I feel sorry for fresh people trying fc14 for the first time. ...
I feel there is room to make some improvements. ...
Yes, Sir. I think you are not real ...
JB
JB <jb.1234abcd <at> gmail.com> writes:
...
Jorgen,
what the hell is it they are smoking there ... In Tokyo ? I would like to try some of that stuff too ...
I guess there is a global revolution, new flower generation, verbotten substances, and a lot of excitement in the air ... But I think sys admins, rational people I am told, should stay out of that ...
Because you know about this Fedora users list, I ask you to please watch it. We learn something here, every day. I can not guarantee, but after 6 months or so you will be a better person ...
In the meantime, relax and have some fun (forget GUIs ...) :-)
Antonio Vivaldi - Summer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g65oWFMSoK0
JB
Jorgen Lundman kirjoitti viestissään (lähetysaika torstai, 24. helmikuuta 2011):
I use custom, which at least gives me some clues. Apparently I can not install to a ext3 filesystem. This seems a really bad decision by someone. Essentially, it is just untaring files on an existing fs.
Are you trying to install from a LiveCD? You must use the actual install media (DVD or set of CDs) to fully customize the installation setup.
On 02/24/2011 02:13 AM, Jorgen Lundman wrote:
Then I ran preupgrade, I went straight for fc14. I was told that my /boot was too small. Of course it is! Still, it did say something about downloading it after reboot. Plus one for fc there.
If you had bothered to do your homework, you would have known that there have been so many changes since F8 that upgrading that far is almost guaranteed to fail. Your best bet, once you've let your system get so hopelessly out of date is to back up what you need, nuke your old system, install from scratch and restore your data. If you're going to use a rapidly-changing distro like Fedora you need to keep it up to date if you don't want to suffer the consequences of being several years behind the curve.
On 02/25/2011 02:54 AM, Joe Zeff wrote:
If you're going to use a rapidly-changing distro like Fedora you need to keep it up to date if you don't want to suffer the consequences of being several years behind the curve.
Actually, in his case it wouldn't have mattered what distro he was using. He just waited way too long to upgrade. It would have been like going from RHELv3 to RHELv6 and he would have run into the same issues. I also have very little (read "no") sympathy for someone that sees a message saying their /boot is too small and then proceeds to ignore it.
Jorgen Lundman wrote:
Hello list,
Senior unix admin, but relatively fresh Linux admin. I run a fc8 box only for cross-compiling, as so many toolchains come pre-compiled for it.
However, today I found the need to finally upgrade. This is an account of what I went through, and not just meant as a bitch session.
I do not care about the OS, but it would be easier if all my toolchain installs and home directory contents remained.
I have a tiny /boot and the rest on a lv / system, setup by a colleague. This all runs on xen, but that is not really part of this email.
First I tried to use preupgrade, and I went through all the yum tasks to ensure I have the latest version of it and so on.
Then I ran preupgrade, I went straight for fc14. I was told that my /boot was too small. Of course it is! Still, it did say something about downloading it after reboot. Plus one for fc there.
Rebooting and it gives some obscure error about not finding previous system. Eh? Googling and crap, I finally find out how to get at the anaconda logs (it could have been mentioned by anaconda i think, instead of just 'error, click here to reboot')
In the end it said something about fc8 can not be upgraded. I still do not really know why, but google suggests I can not skip versions, I need to go to 9 first. preupgraded only lists 10 to 14. I try 10 anyway.
No difference at all. Bugger.
Right, so I download the fc14 ISO and try to do a install over the old OS, hoping to keep data. The installer does have an option to keep things, the second to last option, before custom.
It just notifies me that there are no places to install to, sorry.
I use custom, which at least gives me some clues. Apparently I can not install to a ext3 filesystem. This seems a really bad decision by someone. Essentially, it is just untaring files on an existing fs. To force a certain version seems really backwards.
I google for how to convert ext3 to ext4, and go through that. 2 hours later I am ready to try again.
I return back to the installer, the 4th option still does not work, so i go through custom. I manage to convince it to use my / and /boot. It installs, I reboot. No warnings about losing data, so I feel confident here.
Upon reboot it has no settings for network, ssh etc. So I go through the GUI to set network (I guess I am supposed to use GUI, even though I prefer to reach for ifconfig).
I look for a way to start SSH, and there do not appear to be any. Google said to use Administration/Services. But that does not exists. Huh, I actually have to start a shell to run /sbin/services sshd start. Minus one there.
Only to find that port 22 does not answer. I go through the usual checks to make sure it is running, and connects locally. I start the firewall GUI to confirm that port 22 is open, I even try without firewall. Still, no connection.
How strange. there is a cryptic message about iptables? I don't have services so I can not check using the GUI, so again I am forced to use shell to disable it. Finally I can login. minus one again.
Only to find everything has been wiped. Boo.
It was a major hassle for me, I feel sorry for fresh people trying fc14 for the first time. I feel there is room to make some improvements.
Anyway, I will zfs rollback to my fc8 and install something else.
If you have a toolchain which run in FC8 it's possible that it won't run on a newer system. If you hardware supports HVM so you can run KVM virtualization, I would almost think that the easiest way out is to add a drive with FC14, and run the old system in a VM just to support the toolchain.
Full disclosure: I have a RH8 (no, not FC8) in a VM, because I have an app which won't compile on recent gcc, and no time or money budget to rewrite and debug a large program which has been working for years as a static binary.
On 02/26/2011 05:18 PM, Bill Davidsen wrote:
If you have a toolchain which run in FC8 it's possible that it won't run on a newer system. If you hardware supports HVM so you can run KVM virtualization, I would almost think that the easiest way out is to add a drive with FC14, and run the old system in a VM just to support the toolchain.
Full disclosure: I have a RH8 (no, not FC8) in a VM, because I have an app which won't compile on recent gcc, and no time or money budget to rewrite and debug a large program which has been working for years as a static binary.
I see your RH8 in a VM and raise a RH7.2 in a VM. :-) For an Internet facing service, nonetheless!
The only exposed service daemon is obviously kept updated, so I rebuild the RPM for RH7.2 on a second VM.
Why am I not upgrading the distro? It has been running perfectly for years, with only 128MiB virtual RAM.
On Sunday, February 27, 2011 06:50:28 am Roberto Ragusa wrote:
I see your RH8 in a VM and raise a RH7.2 in a VM. :-) For an Internet facing service, nonetheless!
And I'll raise you an RH5.2, still running after nearly thirteen years. On physical hardware.
It's just about to be decommissioned, with the one old app migrated to a CentOS 2.1 VM (the app needs libc5). The app does what is needed; and this one is not internet facing.
On 2/24/2011 5:13 AM, Jorgen Lundman wrote:
Right, so I download the fc14 ISO and try to do a install over the old OS, hoping to keep data. The installer does have an option to keep things, the second to last option, before custom.
It just notifies me that there are no places to install to, sorry.
I use custom, which at least gives me some clues.
Even way back in Fedora 8, "custom" would be the way to do what you want.
Apparently I can not install to a ext3 filesystem. This seems a really bad decision by someone. Essentially, it is just untaring files on an existing fs. To force a certain version seems really backwards.
I don't think that's right. I did a new install to ext3, though I blew away my old partitions (actually, it was a drive formerly occupied by Windows). It would surely be fine mounting your old ext3 /home partition, and whatever else you wanted.
It was a major hassle for me, I feel sorry for fresh people trying fc14 for the first time. I feel there is room to make some improvements.
Like Ubuntu, Fedora is moving more and more to where it's intended to "just work" out of the box. How successful it is wooing new users I can't say, but it seems more newbie-friendly than in the past. But, to do more advanced things, as you desire, requires some homework. Not sure how much happier you'll be with another distro.
I agree there's room for improvement, as there is with nearly every product. Not every attempt at improvement receives universal acclaim--I've griped about a few myself-- but I think it's come a long way in usability.
Your inability to do an upgrade through eight versions is not surprising. What other software would do this without a problem?
Anyway, I will zfs rollback to my fc8 and install something else.
good luck,
Your call, but I'm sure there are people here who could help you do pretty much everything you want.
-
Bill Davidsen -
David Liguori -
Ed Greshko -
JB -
Joe Zeff -
Jorgen Lundman -
Lamar Owen -
Markku Kolkka -
Michael Schwendt -
Roberto Ragusa