Hi,
We're releasing 0.4.12 today. See all the information at the usual places: blog [1], release notes [2] and f20 update [3].
Ales
[1] http://dnf.baseurl.org/2014/01/21/dnf-0-4-12-released/ [2] http://akozumpl.github.io/dnf/release_notes.html#id23 [3] https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/dnf-0.4.12-1.fc20
On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 8:02 AM, Ales Kozumplik akozumpl@redhat.com wrote:
We're releasing 0.4.12 today. See all the information at the usual places: blog [1], release notes [2] and f20 update [3].
Is there some specific reason this needs to be cross-posted to three different lists (none of which is the Testing list)? Presumably those using dnf will get the update anyway.
poc
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 10:07:43 +0000 "Patrick O'Callaghan" pocallaghan@gmail.com wrote:
Is there some specific reason this needs to be cross-posted to three different lists (none of which is the Testing list)? Presumably those using dnf will get the update anyway.
poc
It's on users anyway, as Ales asked "here" for widespread testing. Getting the update may not tell you what has changed unless you go looking for it. Not all @users will be on @testing @devel I can see the rationale.
Though all using Fedora should be on @announce. Therefore only one info mail would ever be needed
___ Regards, Frank www.frankly3d.com
On 21.01.2014 11:13, Frank Murphy wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 10:07:43 +0000 "Patrick O'Callaghan" pocallaghan@gmail.com wrote:
Is there some specific reason this needs to be cross-posted to three different lists (none of which is the Testing list)? Presumably those using dnf will get the update anyway.
poc
It's on users anyway, as Ales asked "here" for widespread testing. Getting the update may not tell you what has changed unless you go looking for it. Not all @users will be on @testing @devel I can see the rationale.
Rather than rational, it's more opportune. PO'C got a point. ;)
Though all using Fedora should be on @announce.
All!? :)
Therefore only one info mail would ever be needed
One!? :)
poma
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 11:42:52 +0100 poma pomidorabelisima@gmail.com wrote:
Rather than rational, it's more opportune. PO'C got a point. ;)
I don't believe so, I received only one copy ot the dnf mail, though on all 4 lists. dnf has got quite a lot more testting as a result of Ales OP: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/users/2013-December/443694.html
Though all using Fedora should be on @announce.
All!? :)
I would make it mandatory if I could.
Therefore only one info mail would ever be needed
One!? :)
One per Subject, you're too literal.
___ Regards, Frank www.frankly3d.com
On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 11:07 AM, Frank Murphy frankly3d@gmail.com wrote:
I don't believe so, I received only one copy ot the dnf mail, though on all 4 lists.
The point about not cross-posting is not so much that you get multiple copies (it depends on the list-management software) but that anyone who replies on one list won't see the replies on the other lists. This is a recipe for confusion.
I don't accept the argument that as dnf has been discussed there's a justification for a point-release announcement. If we follow that line, the list will be inundated with such announcements. If the post had said something directly related to the discussion about dnf it might have made sense to add it *to the discussion thread*, but it doesn't.
poc
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 13:22:19 +0000 "Patrick O'Callaghan" pocallaghan@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 11:07 AM, Frank Murphy frankly3d@gmail.com wrote:
I don't believe so, I received only one copy ot the dnf mail, though on all 4 lists.
The point about not cross-posting is not so much that you get multiple copies (it depends on the list-management software) but that anyone who replies on one list won't see the replies on the other lists. This is a recipe for confusion.
The replies on one list or the other may depend on your knowledge of what is going on. In @devl replies my invoke Huh? from some at @users. So If op gets a reply from @users he will reply to @users as he has done previously.
I don't accept the argument that as dnf has been discussed there's a justification for a point-release announcement. If we follow that line, the list will be inundated with such announcements. If the post had said something directly related to the discussion
The discussion is over, it's going to happen. It's now got to has my "concern" been entertained. about dnf it
might have made sense to add it *to the discussion thread*, but it doesn't.
I's no longer being discussed.
___ Regards, Frank www.frankly3d.com
On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 1:30 PM, Frank Murphy frankly3d@gmail.com wrote:
The point about not cross-posting is not so much that you get multiple copies (it depends on the list-management software) but that anyone who replies on one list won't see the replies on the other lists. This is a recipe for confusion.
The replies on one list or the other may depend on your knowledge of what is going on. In @devl replies my invoke Huh? from some at @users. So If op gets a reply from @users he will reply to @users as he has done previously.
So you think the Guideline about cross-posting is irrelevant or should be revoked? Why do you think this exists in the first place?
I don't accept the argument that as dnf has been discussed there's a justification for a point-release announcement. If we follow that line, the list will be inundated with such announcements. If the post had said something directly related to the discussion
The discussion is over, it's going to happen. It's now got to has my "concern" been entertained. about dnf it
might have made sense to add it *to the discussion thread*, but it doesn't.
I's no longer being discussed.
All the more reason to not post an announcement about a version release.
poc
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 13:35:39 +0000 "Patrick O'Callaghan" pocallaghan@gmail.com wrote:
So you think the Guideline about cross-posting is irrelevant or should be revoked? Why do you think this exists in the first place?
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines " Before Posting to the List
There are a number of ways you can find help within your system. If you don't find the answer there, try to look into the list archives before posting a question."
Do you think that guideline really is talking about a dev in a dev let distro.
___ Regards, Frank www.frankly3d.com
On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 1:39 PM, Frank Murphy frankly3d@gmail.com wrote:
Do you think that guideline really is talking about a dev in a dev let distro.
You've lost me completely now. I've no idea what you're talking about.
poc
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 14:03:47 +0000 "Patrick O'Callaghan" pocallaghan@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 1:39 PM, Frank Murphy frankly3d@gmail.com wrote:
Do you think that guideline really is talking about a dev in a dev let distro.
You've lost me completely now. I've no idea what you're talking about.
poc
Those guidelines are there, to me, after reading them to prevent @users cross-posting to @devel & @test with "How do I.." questions Not to prevent devs posting to where they feel appropriate.
___ Regards, Frank www.frankly3d.com
On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 2:07 PM, Frank Murphy frankly3d@gmail.com wrote:
Those guidelines are there, to me, after reading them to prevent @users cross-posting to @devel & @test with "How do I.." questions Not to prevent devs posting to where they feel appropriate.
I'd say that was a rather creative interpretation. There's no wording in the Guideline to support that position. See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines#Do_not_Cross_Post (it's only a few lines and says nothing whatever about devels or about specific rules for certain lists).
That said, I'd agree that there can be a limited number of exceptions. One such is the common practice of announcing the release of a new version of Fedora. However these are very few and far between, and certainly don't cover the announcement of a new point release of a package.
poc
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 14:22:05 +0000 "Patrick O'Callaghan" pocallaghan@gmail.com wrote:
I'd say that was a rather creative interpretation. There's no wording in the Guideline to support that position. See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines#Do_not_Cross_Post (it's only a few lines and says nothing whatever about devels or about specific rules for certain lists).
But this does the very top line: "Before Posting to the List "
Which being placed on top of the guideline, gives the direction of the guidlines "People looking for help"
Similar to: "This book is for.."
___ Regards, Frank www.frankly3d.com
On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 2:42 PM, Frank Murphy frankly3d@gmail.com wrote:
"Patrick O'Callaghan" pocallaghan@gmail.com wrote:
I'd say that was a rather creative interpretation. There's no wording in the Guideline to support that position. See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines#Do_not_Cross_Post (it's only a few lines and says nothing whatever about devels or about specific rules for certain lists).
But this does the very top line: "Before Posting to the List "
Which being placed on top of the guideline, gives the direction of the guidlines "People looking for help"
Similar to: "This book is for.."
Oh I see. If I'm not looking for help then I can just ignore the Guidelines and do what I want. That just makes so much sense.
poc
On 21 January 2014 10:07, Patrick O'Callaghan pocallaghan@gmail.com wrote:
Is there some specific reason this needs to be cross-posted to three different lists (none of which is the Testing list)? Presumably those using dnf will get the update anyway.
It seems to me, Ales is damned if he does publicize the release, and damned if he doesn't. Are you people not the same people that were demanding exact feature parity before dnf could replace yum? The alternative is he doesn't post these messages, you don't engage with him and the various other people pushing dnf+hawkey; F22 comes without yum and then everyone is angry because they weren't involved earlier.
I don't think one of these mails has actually thanked Ales for working on dnf, and from someone who's intimately familiar with the yum code-base, you probably should rather than lecture him on mailing list etiquette.
Richard
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 14:46:06 +0000 "Patrick O'Callaghan" pocallaghan@gmail.com wrote:
Oh I see. If I'm not looking for help then I can just ignore the Guidelines and do what I want. That just makes so much sense.
poc
Whether agreed with or not Fedora is a Dev let distro, and in the main Devs will get all the support they need. Fedora.next Primary audience for Fedora will be: 1: Devs 2: SysAdmins 3: Others
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/desktop/2014-January/008644.html check attachment ___ Regards, Frank www.frankly3d.com
On 01/21/14 22:49, Richard Hughes wrote:
On 21 January 2014 10:07, Patrick O'Callaghan pocallaghan@gmail.com wrote:
Is there some specific reason this needs to be cross-posted to three different lists (none of which is the Testing list)? Presumably those using dnf will get the update anyway.
It seems to me, Ales is damned if he does publicize the release, and damned if he doesn't. Are you people not the same people that were demanding exact feature parity before dnf could replace yum? The alternative is he doesn't post these messages, you don't engage with him and the various other people pushing dnf+hawkey; F22 comes without yum and then everyone is angry because they weren't involved earlier.
I don't think one of these mails has actually thanked Ales for working on dnf, and from someone who's intimately familiar with the yum code-base, you probably should rather than lecture him on mailing list etiquette.
Richard
Totally agree.....
It didn't trouble me in the least that the message was posted to multiple lists.
I guess some folks would have been happier if Ales would have sent individual messages to each of the mailing lists.
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 14:46:06 +0000 "Patrick O'Callaghan" pocallaghan@gmail.com wrote:
Oh I see. If I'm not looking for help then I can just ignore the Guidelines and do what I want. That just makes so much sense.
poc
Forgot the most compelling piece of my argument: This is the sig from @test. @ devel is similar Notice any guidelines.
On 21.01.2014 15:57, Frank Murphy wrote:
Whether agreed with or not Fedora is a Dev let distro, and in the main Devs will get all the support they need. Fedora.next Primary audience for Fedora will be: 1: Devs 2: SysAdmins 3: Others
WTF are "Others"!?
True priority list: 1. Users 2. Users 3. Users 4. Users 5. Users …
poma
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 17:06:23 +0100 poma pomidorabelisima@gmail.com wrote:
On 21.01.2014 15:57, Frank Murphy wrote:
Whether agreed with or not Fedora is a Dev let distro, and in the main Devs will get all the support they need. Fedora.next Primary audience for Fedora will be: 1: Devs 2: SysAdmins 3: Others
WTF are "Others"!?
Don't ask me I just read the stuff.
___ Regards, Frank www.frankly3d.com
Around 04:06pm on Tuesday, January 21, 2014 (UK time), poma wrote:
On 21.01.2014 15:57, Frank Murphy wrote:
Whether agreed with or not Fedora is a Dev let distro, and in the main Devs will get all the support they need. Fedora.next Primary audience for Fedora will be: 1: Devs 2: SysAdmins 3: Others
WTF are "Others"!?
In this context it's anyone who is not a Dev or a SysAdmin.
Steve
True priority list:
- Users
- Users
- Users
- Users
- Users
In your list, how would you ensure the first entry is prioritised ahead of the last?
Steve
On 21.01.2014 15:57, Ed Greshko wrote:
Totally agree.....
It didn't trouble me in the least that the message was posted to multiple lists.
I guess some folks would have been happier if Ales would have sent individual messages to each of the mailing lists.
Yeah I see when someone bends too much. :)
poma
On 21.01.2014 17:08, Frank Murphy wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 17:06:23 +0100 poma pomidorabelisima@gmail.com wrote:
On 21.01.2014 15:57, Frank Murphy wrote:
Whether agreed with or not Fedora is a Dev let distro, and in the main Devs will get all the support they need. Fedora.next Primary audience for Fedora will be: 1: Devs 2: SysAdmins 3: Others
WTF are "Others"!?
Don't ask me I just read the stuff.
Are you the "Others"? :)
poma
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 17:14:54 +0100 poma pomidorabelisima@gmail.com wrote:
Don't ask me I just read the stuff.
Are you the "Others"? :)
I learned Java, now Swing is out Java FX is back in. Can't they leave an old dog with his ways.
___ Regards, Frank www.frankly3d.com
On 21.01.2014 17:10, Steve Searle wrote:
Around 04:06pm on Tuesday, January 21, 2014 (UK time), poma wrote:
On 21.01.2014 15:57, Frank Murphy wrote:
Whether agreed with or not Fedora is a Dev let distro, and in the main Devs will get all the support they need. Fedora.next Primary audience for Fedora will be: 1: Devs 2: SysAdmins 3: Others
WTF are "Others"!?
In this context it's anyone who is not a Dev or a SysAdmin.
Steve
True priority list:
- Users
- Users
- Users
- Users
- Users
In your list, how would you ensure the first entry is prioritised ahead of the last?
Steve
Steve, Steve, everyone is user. ;)
poma
On 21.01.2014 17:17, Frank Murphy wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 17:14:54 +0100 poma pomidorabelisima@gmail.com wrote:
Don't ask me I just read the stuff.
Are you the "Others"? :)
I learned Java, now Swing is out Java FX is back in. Can't they leave an old dog with his ways.
:)
poma
On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 2:57 PM, Frank Murphy frankly3d@gmail.com wrote:
Whether agreed with or not Fedora is a Dev let distro, and in the main Devs will get all the support they need.
Once again, I've no idea what "dev let distro" means or if it has any bearing on the question of cross-posting. I presume it's an abbreviation of some sort.
I for one have had enough. I thought I was making a very simple point, without wishing to hurt anyone's feelings or going off at a tangent about Fedora's project goals. In particular, my comment was in no way a reflection of dnf. I don't use it at present but no doubt we all will in the future. This is entirely beside the point.
Let's just leave it at that.
poc
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 18:30:06 +0000 "Patrick O'Callaghan" pocallaghan@gmail.com wrote:
"dev let distro"
^^^ apologies typo Dev (Developer) led distro. Users don't get to tell devs' what to mail
That's the truth of it.
___ Regards, Frank www.frankly3d.com
On 21.01.2014 19:54, Frank Murphy wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 18:30:06 +0000 "Patrick O'Callaghan" pocallaghan@gmail.com wrote:
"dev let distro"
^^^apologies typo Dev (Developer) led distro. Users don't get to tell devs' what to mail
That's the truth of it.
Regards, Frank www.frankly3d.com
Aleš, do get what to mail!
poma
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 20:08:25 +0100 poma pomidorabelisima@gmail.com wrote:
Aleš, do get what to mail!
Pictures of snowy topped mountains in Spring import Java.Util.* Where's my picture gone.
___ Regards, Frank www.frankly3d.com
On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 6:54 PM, Frank Murphy frankly3d@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 18:30:06 +0000 "Patrick O'Callaghan" pocallaghan@gmail.com wrote:
"dev let distro"
^^^apologies typo Dev (Developer) led distro. Users don't get to tell devs' what to mail
That's the truth of it.
This list is for Fedora Users. That's the end of my part in this discussion.
poc
-
Ales Kozumplik -
Ed Greshko -
Frank Murphy -
Patrick O'Callaghan -
poma -
Richard Hughes -
Steve Searle