Dell says all aboard for Linux PCs
By Stan Beer
Monday, 26 February 2007
PC maker Dell has announced that it has commenced a program that will result in the sale and distribution of a range of computers with pre-installed Linux distributions instead of Microsoft Windows. Dell has indicated that Novell's Suse Linux will be first cab off the rank.
Full article at; http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/9951/53/
taharka
Lexington, Kentucky U.S.A.
taharka wrote:
Dell says all aboard for Linux PCs
By Stan Beer
Monday, 26 February 2007
PC maker Dell has announced that it has commenced a program that will result in the sale and distribution of a range of computers with pre-installed Linux distributions instead of Microsoft Windows. Dell has indicated that Novell's Suse Linux will be first cab off the rank.
Full article at; http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/9951/53/
I wonder if you "waste" much purchase money if you immediately overlay Fedora on one.
On Mon, 2007-02-26 at 08:42 -0800, Philip Walden wrote:
taharka wrote:
Dell says all aboard for Linux PCs
By Stan Beer
Monday, 26 February 2007
PC maker Dell has announced that it has commenced a program that will result in the sale and distribution of a range of computers with pre-installed Linux distributions instead of Microsoft Windows. Dell has indicated that Novell's Suse Linux will be first cab off the rank.
Full article at; http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/9951/53/
I wonder if you "waste" much purchase money if you immediately overlay Fedora on one.
I'm sure you'll waste some, just as you would if you overlaid Fedora on a box that came with Windows preinstalled. How much, who knows? Maybe wait to see if/when Fedora/Ubuntu climb aboard, then compare prices? The article states, they're the next distributions for consideration.
taharka
Lexington, Kentucky U.S.A.
On Mon, 2007-02-26 at 12:02 -0500, taharka wrote:
I'm sure you'll waste some, just as you would if you overlaid Fedora on a box that came with Windows preinstalled. How much, who knows? Maybe wait to see if/when Fedora/Ubuntu climb aboard, then compare prices? The article states, they're the next distributions for consideration.
from what i understand, the same machine loaded with linux will cost approximately $53.00 USD more than the same machine with Vista. i can't quite figure that one out. anyone care to explain?
taharka
Lexington, Kentucky U.S.A.
jack wallen wrote:
from what i understand, the same machine loaded with linux will cost approximately $53.00 USD more than the same machine with Vista. i can't quite figure that one out. anyone care to explain?
It's their way of pushing Vista. That'd be my guess.
Quoting "Ashley M. Kirchner" ashley@pcraft.com:
jack wallen wrote:
from what i understand, the same machine loaded with linux will cost approximately $53.00 USD more than the same machine with Vista. i can't quite figure that one out. anyone care to explain?
It's their way of pushing Vista. That'd be my guess.
Probably Microsoft is subsidizing new installations of Vista. Also, it costs Dell money to get their installers "certified" and build new Ghost (or whatever) images of the linux O/S. Sure they have to do that with Vista, but since most of their installs are Vista, it's a matter of a few pennies per machine, not a few dollars per machine. Simply a matter of scale.
from what i understand, the same machine loaded with linux will cost approximately $53.00 USD more than the same machine with Vista. i can't quite figure that one out. anyone care to explain?
Well one guess is to assume they don't actually want that Linux business. That explains the distro choice, the pricing and the like. The other is that they intend to offer some level of support on the system and that does have a cost to them because they need staff who can resolve hardware bugs without windows (eg for home users they need to know how to say "try rebooting" and hang the phone up in Linux too)
I would much rather see them sell a box with no OS beyond a bootable diagnostics image (eg freedos) that can just verify the hardware is ok and tell the phone monkeys when/what needs repair if anything.
Alan
On Mon, 2007-02-26 at 12:56 -0500, jack wallen wrote:
On Mon, 2007-02-26 at 12:02 -0500, taharka wrote:
I'm sure you'll waste some, just as you would if you overlaid Fedora on a box that came with Windows preinstalled. How much, who knows? Maybe wait to see if/when Fedora/Ubuntu climb aboard, then compare prices? The article states, they're the next distributions for consideration.
from what i understand, the same machine loaded with linux will cost approximately $53.00 USD more than the same machine with Vista. i can't quite figure that one out. anyone care to explain?
It's probably not near as sinister as others seem to think.
It's probably a simple matter of volume. They will still sell far more Vista machines than Linux, and there is a fixed cost to pick the distro, select what needs to be installed, brand it, provide some customer support, etc., etc. Divide that by the number of machines they expect to sell, and that may be where the additional cost comes from.
Dan
jack wallen wrote:
On Mon, 2007-02-26 at 12:02 -0500, taharka wrote:
I'm sure you'll waste some, just as you would if you overlaid Fedora on a box that came with Windows preinstalled. How much, who knows? Maybe wait to see if/when Fedora/Ubuntu climb aboard, then compare prices? The article states, they're the next distributions for consideration.
from what i understand, the same machine loaded with linux will cost approximately $53.00 USD more than the same machine with Vista. i can't quite figure that one out. anyone care to explain?
My guess is that they still have the OEM deal with MS that they pay a fee for *every* shipment regardless of what is actually shipped. So your bright new shiny Dell Linux box includes the cost of a Windows OS even when you don't get one.
On Mon, 2007-02-26 at 12:56 -0500, jack wallen wrote:
from what i understand, the same machine loaded with linux will cost approximately $53.00 USD more than the same machine with Vista. i can't quite figure that one out. anyone care to explain?
Dell gets money from AOL and the proprietary crippleware vendors on the Windows platform. But beyond than that, price is a function of demand, not cost. Dell will charge whatever you will pay.
When Dell first shipped Linux on servers, it was much cheaper than Windows (hundreds of $). Later, they raised the price for a server with RHEL to nearly the same and sometimes more than a Windows-based server. But you have been able to purchase Linux on Dell servers for a very long time (it's even supported). I am glad they are finally planning to offer Linux for desktops. I hope they also offer dual boot machines. For example on one project at work we needed dual boot machines but VA would ship only Linux so we purchased less of their machines and purchased Windows elsewhere (lost revenue opportunity for VA).
One observation and I hope Red Hat is reading this: Before RHL became Fedora, Dell would have most likely used RHL as they already had agreements with Red Hat for servers. Notice that the first Linux option will most likely be SuSE and that Fedora is mentioned as a possible later alternative, but no mention (so far) of Red Hat. 5 years ago, Red Hat WAS Linux to many, especially PHBs. This IS market erosion.
I think the announcements by ESR further reflect this erosion in mindshare and low-end market penetration by Red Hat. Maybe the OLPC effort and new efforts on the part of the Fedora community will reverse this trend but it may be too late.
Cheers, -- Wade Hampton
On 2/26/07, John Yanosko johgn@omsig.net wrote:
On Mon, 2007-02-26 at 12:56 -0500, jack wallen wrote:
from what i understand, the same machine loaded with linux will cost approximately $53.00 USD more than the same machine with Vista. i can't quite figure that one out. anyone care to explain?
Dell gets money from AOL and the proprietary crippleware vendors on the Windows platform. But beyond than that, price is a function of demand, not cost. Dell will charge whatever you will pay.
-- John Yanosko
-- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
On Tue, Feb 27, 2007 at 08:23:43 -0500, Wade Hampton wadehamptoniv@gmail.com wrote:
One observation and I hope Red Hat is reading this: Before RHL became Fedora, Dell would have most likely used RHL as they already had agreements with Red Hat for servers. Notice that the first Linux option will most likely be SuSE and that Fedora is mentioned as a possible later alternative, but no mention (so far) of Red Hat. 5 years ago, Red Hat WAS Linux to many, especially PHBs. This IS market erosion.
A few years ago they would have been selling the linux boxes to a different type of customer than they may be looking at today. Fedora wouldn't make much sense. They would be better off putting RHEL on them rather than Fedora if they are going to support them.
I think the announcements by ESR further reflect this erosion in mindshare and low-end market penetration by Red Hat. Maybe the OLPC effort and new efforts on the part of the Fedora community will reverse this trend but it may be too late.
I am not sure that the mind share for Fedora has really dropped on the low end. A few years ago people buoght the boxed sets because downloading images and CD blanks were more expensive. There is more likely a lot more people using Fedora now than there were people using pre-Fedora versions of RH. They just get the software a different way now.
It may be that other distros have grown faster than Fedora for desktop use by "normal" people. This may or may not be a problem for Fedora.
The whole Dell thing doesn't make much difference to me. I buy the computers I use in parts or acquire hand me downs and I won't be buying a machine from Dell. I certainly wouldn't use any preinstalled OS of theirs, Linux or not. I trust Redhat a lot more than Dell, not to include spyware type applications on the system or misuse information obtained when getting updates from their servers.
taharka wrote:
Dell says all aboard for Linux PCs
By Stan Beer
Monday, 26 February 2007
PC maker Dell has announced that it has commenced a program that will result in the sale and distribution of a range of computers with pre-installed Linux distributions instead of Microsoft Windows. Dell has indicated that Novell's Suse Linux will be first cab off the rank.
Full article at; http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/9951/53/
Controlling the debate is a wonderful thing. Dell cherrypicked what to respond to, did not link to the actual site either on the Press Release or the article.
http://dellideastorm.com is the actual site, where this is currently #6:
''No OS Preloaded
submitted by agreer Feb 17
I have a XP Pro retail copy, will soon buy retail vista, I also like Linux: Make WINDOWS-FREE, and OS-Free an option for more than just expensive business lines...let me get that cheap-o $500 dimension without Windows...please! ''
That's one idea Dell "recommends Windows Vista™ Business" don't want to give any oxygen to. And why would any news outlet rock the boat when their boat floats on Dell and Microsoft advertising dollars.
-Andy
Andy Green wrote:
[snip]
Controlling the debate is a wonderful thing. Dell cherrypicked what to respond to, did not link to the actual site either on the Press Release or the article.
http://dellideastorm.com is the actual site, where this is currently #6:
''No OS Preloaded
submitted by agreer Feb 17
I have a XP Pro retail copy, will soon buy retail vista, I also like Linux: Make WINDOWS-FREE, and OS-Free an option for more than just expensive business lines...let me get that cheap-o $500 dimension without Windows...please! ''
Yeah, and around the 2,070 mark, we have: http://www.dellideastorm.com/article/show/63527/FREE_TV_advertising_on_new_C...
Not exactly awe-inspiring stuff, so it's not surprising Dell cherry picked.
That's one idea Dell "recommends Windows Vista™ Business" don't want to give any oxygen to. And why would any news outlet rock the boat when their boat floats on Dell and Microsoft advertising dollars.
Dell are required to "recommend" XP and Vista by virtue of the OEM agreements they sign with Microsoft. It doesn't preclude them from preinstalling other operating systems on their products. And news is news; a good news outlet won't give a damn where their advertising dollars are coming from.
William Anderson wrote:
Yeah, and around the 2,070 mark, we have: http://www.dellideastorm.com/article/show/63527/FREE_TV_advertising_on_new_C...
Not exactly awe-inspiring stuff, so it's not surprising Dell cherry picked.
That means nothing, since the Microsoft free one was up at 33,000 (the spam is 6% of that) when I looked. Also they took time to trumpet about being Carbon Neutral, or at least to drop the phrase in there, and that is much further down.
That's one idea Dell "recommends Windows Vista™ Business" don't want to give any oxygen to. And why would any news outlet rock the boat when their boat floats on Dell and Microsoft advertising dollars.
Dell are required to "recommend" XP and Vista by virtue of the OEM
They want Microsoft's money, so they agree to stuff that is only in Microsoft's interest, not their customers'. You can't say "required" as if they have no choice. They don't want to explain the way they pocket monopoly money to keep shouting Microsoft's message at the customer over and over, because that's an ugly truth their customers can understand.
-Andy
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Alan Cox -
Andy Green -
Ashley M. Kirchner -
Bruno Wolff III -
Dan Hensley -
Jack Wallen -
John Aldrich -
John Yanosko -
Philip Walden -
taharka -
Wade Hampton -
William Anderson