12:34 p.m.
Is there a way to combine these 2 commands to cut my time in half?
VBoxManage internalcommands converttoraw file.vdi file.raw
then I have to run
dd if=file.raw of=/dev/sdb
-thx
12:54 p.m.
Bazooka Joe wrote:
Is there a way to combine these 2 commands to cut my time in half?
VBoxManage internalcommands converttoraw file.vdi file.raw
then I have to run
dd if=file.raw of=/dev/sdb
-thx
You can can command on the same command in several ways. It depends
on what you put between the command.
; - always run the next command.
&& - run the second command only if the first command is successful.
|| - run the second command if the first one fails.
Mikkel
--
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons,
for thou art crunchy and taste good with Ketchup!
11:51 a.m.
On Sun, 2009-08-02 at 20:03 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Sun, 2009-08-02 at 17:19 -0700, Les wrote:
> On Sun, 2009-08-02 at 14:38 -0400, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
> > On Sun, 2 Aug 2009, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> >
> > > On Sun, 2009-08-02 at 12:54 -0500, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
> > > > Bazooka Joe wrote:
> > > > > Is there a way to combine these 2 commands to cut my time in
half?
> > > > >
> > > > > VBoxManage internalcommands converttoraw file.vdi file.raw
> > > > > then I have to run
> > > > > dd if=file.raw of=/dev/sdb
> > > > >
> > > > > -thx
> > > > >
> > > > You can can command on the same command in several ways. It depends
> > > > on what you put between the command.
> > > >
> > > > ; - always run the next command.
> > > > && - run the second command only if the first command is
successful.
> > > > || - run the second command if the first one fails.
> > >
> > > How is this going to reduce his total time? The commands are still
> > > running sequentially.
> >
> > i'd bump up the blocksize of that dd command. IIRC, the default
> > blocksize for dd is 512 bytes -- painfully small and resulting in lots
> > and lots of little writes. crank up the blocksize significantly and
> > that second command should speed up noticeably.
> >
> > rday
> if the vbox command can follow fully qualified paths, you should be able
> to simply say converttoraw file.vdi /pathtosda/file.raw
>
> However, going between disks may be faster or slower, depending on the
> way the command buffers the data, and/or handles disk I/O. Personally I
> think some fundamental experimentation is in order. There is a final
> issue in that some video files are protected in such a way that copying
> them is prohibited. I don't know or care about the details as I never
> do anything with video. However be aware that some driver software
> includes checks for pirating video and audio. If your driver is setup
> to prohibit copying according to the DMCA, it will not work as expected.
AFAIK the OP is trying to convert a VB virtual disk to a raw format.
Perhaps you misread vdi for dvi. I'm not sure it's even possible to do
what he's asking, but it has nothing to do with video.
poc
Sorry, and you are correct, I did read vdi for dvi.
Regards,
Les H
9:25 a.m.
On 08/03/2009 01:07 AM, Bazooka Joe wrote:
> I have set up literally hundreds of CF cards for embedded
systems.
>
> My final approach was to give the VM the usb raw device as its disk drive
> and install directly to it.
>
> All I had to do 'postinstall' was run mkinitrd and add the ide and scsi
> drivers to the command line, so it would boot in literally anything
> supported by the kernel.
>
> I used the kvm VM for this because of its simplicity for me. YMMV.
>
> Pop in the CF card and watch it mount. Verify the drive id with df, then
> unmount it.
>
> This example assumes that the CF card was mounted as /dev/sdbX.
>
> # qemu-kvm -hda /dev/sdb -cdrom CentOS-5.2-x86_64-bin-DVD.iso -net nic -net
> user -m 1024 -kernel vmlinuz -initrd initrd.img -append "text
> ks=http://10.1.10.197/ks/ks"
>
> For me, I can kickstart a small custom Fedora or Centos build in about 7
> minutes, and pop it into an embedded device and boot it.
>
>
Phil, very interesting.
What do you do to minimize writes to the cf card? Or is it not that
big of a prob?
I have turned off swap.
I have cards in the field that have been running now for three years
with no errors, with a swap partition.
I have tested cards by running an intensive database (11disk/i/o per
second) for over a week, with no disk errors. Current CF cards are fine
for this stuff, but can be made to last even longer by doing a livecd to
the CF. It depends upon expected work loads.
2:07 a.m.
I have set up literally hundreds of CF cards for embedded systems.
My final approach was to give the VM the usb raw device as its disk drive
and install directly to it.
All I had to do 'postinstall' was run mkinitrd and add the ide and scsi
drivers to the command line, so it would boot in literally anything
supported by the kernel.
I used the kvm VM for this because of its simplicity for me. YMMV.
Pop in the CF card and watch it mount. Verify the drive id with df, then
unmount it.
This example assumes that the CF card was mounted as /dev/sdbX.
# qemu-kvm -hda /dev/sdb -cdrom CentOS-5.2-x86_64-bin-DVD.iso -net nic -net
user -m 1024 -kernel vmlinuz -initrd initrd.img -append "text
ks=http://10.1.10.197/ks/ks"
For me, I can kickstart a small custom Fedora or Centos build in about 7
minutes, and pop it into an embedded device and boot it.
Phil, very interesting.
What do you do to minimize writes to the cf card? Or is it not that
big of a prob?
I have turned off swap.
1:22 a.m.
On 08/02/2009 11:34 AM, Bazooka Joe wrote:
Is there a way to combine these 2 commands to cut my time in half?
VBoxManage internalcommands converttoraw file.vdi file.raw
then I have to run
dd if=file.raw of=/dev/sdb
-thx
I have set up literally hundreds of CF cards for embedded systems.
My final approach was to give the VM the usb raw device as its disk
drive and install directly to it.
All I had to do 'postinstall' was run mkinitrd and add the ide and scsi
drivers to the command line, so it would boot in literally anything
supported by the kernel.
I used the kvm VM for this because of its simplicity for me. YMMV.
Pop in the CF card and watch it mount. Verify the drive id with df,
then unmount it.
This example assumes that the CF card was mounted as /dev/sdbX.
# qemu-kvm -hda /dev/sdb -cdrom CentOS-5.2-x86_64-bin-DVD.iso -net nic
-net user -m 1024 -kernel vmlinuz -initrd initrd.img -append "text
ks=http://10.1.10.197/ks/ks"
For me, I can kickstart a small custom Fedora or Centos build in about 7
minutes, and pop it into an embedded device and boot it.
Hope this points you in the right direction.
Good luck!
1 a.m.
> What I am doing is: installing an os (first fedora but gave up
because
> of bugs then cent) in Virtualbox tweeking cpu settings. Getting it
> configured to run headless + amd geode processor + other things. then
> once it is ready I run
> VBoxManage internalcommands converttoraw
> .VirtualBox/HardDisks/cent.vdi cent.raw
> which converts the Vbox image to a raw image readable by dd. Then w/
> dd i write it to the cf card. put the cf card in my embedded appliance
> and see if it works. I have been tweaking and reinstalling for the
> last day or two. I got cent working today on this board.
> http://www.pcengines.ch/alix2d2.htm
I'm slightly surprised you can get the VM to match your hardware closely
enough, but interesting nonetheless.
> With a 4G image it took about 45 min to convert to raw then write to
> cf card. Because I kept redoing it I was looking to shorten that
> conversion time.
>
> on current ubuntu if I just type VBoxManager i am given a list of
> option one of which is converttoraw.
% VBoxManage |grep convert
VBoxManage convertfromraw <filename> <outputfile>
VBoxManage convertfromraw stdin <outputfile> <bytes>
%
So no "converttoraw" here, using
VirtualBox-3.0.2_49928_fedora11-1.x86_64
sry wrong instructions
/# VBoxManage internalcommands | grep convert
converttoraw [-format <fileformat>] <filename> <outputfile>
converthd [-srcformat VDI|VMDK|VHD|RAW]
converts hard disk images between formats
In vbox i ended up turning off all modern features in the cpu. Then
anaconda would install the appropriate kernel.
10 p.m.
On Sun, 2009-08-02 at 18:55 -0700, Bazooka Joe wrote:
On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 6:01 PM, Patrick
O'Callaghan<pocallaghan(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 2009-08-02 at 20:49 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
>> >/dev/sdb is not a directory. Unless your setup is *very* nonstandard,
>> >it's a device, in fact a disk drive. In the worst case the app might
>> >want to seek on it, but there's no reason it shouldn't be able to
do
>> >that.
>>
>> Another item that has blown on by is that /dev/sdb is the whole
>> device. One
>> must have at least one mountable partition setup on the device, and
>> the
>> filesystem suitably initialized and mounted before the file can be
>> written.
>> There are some exceptions to that rule, generally involving either
>> an .iso
>> image, or 'dd' which can make an identical image on any writable
>> device at
>> least big enough to hold the image.
>
> I was assuming the latter, given that the OP's version uses dd. However
> it's starting to look like he may not be entirely sure of what he's
> doing.
>
What I am doing is: installing an os (first fedora but gave up because
of bugs then cent) in Virtualbox tweeking cpu settings. Getting it
configured to run headless + amd geode processor + other things. then
once it is ready I run
VBoxManage internalcommands converttoraw
.VirtualBox/HardDisks/cent.vdi cent.raw
which converts the Vbox image to a raw image readable by dd. Then w/
dd i write it to the cf card. put the cf card in my embedded appliance
and see if it works. I have been tweaking and reinstalling for the
last day or two. I got cent working today on this board.
http://www.pcengines.ch/alix2d2.htm
I'm slightly surprised you can get the VM to match your hardware closely
enough, but interesting nonetheless.
With a 4G image it took about 45 min to convert to raw then write to
cf card. Because I kept redoing it I was looking to shorten that
conversion time.
on current ubuntu if I just type VBoxManager i am given a list of
option one of which is converttoraw.
% VBoxManage |grep convert
VBoxManage convertfromraw <filename> <outputfile>
VBoxManage convertfromraw stdin <outputfile> <bytes>
%
So no "converttoraw" here, using
VirtualBox-3.0.2_49928_fedora11-1.x86_64
poc
7:33 p.m.
On Sun, 2009-08-02 at 15:10 -0700, Bazooka Joe wrote:
On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 10:41 AM, Patrick
O'Callaghan<pocallaghan(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 2009-08-02 at 10:34 -0700, Bazooka Joe wrote:
>> Is there a way to combine these 2 commands to cut my time in half?
>>
>> VBoxManage internalcommands converttoraw file.vdi file.raw
>> then I have to run
>> dd if=file.raw of=/dev/sdb
>
> Assuming the second line is correct (i.e. you really want to copy
> file.raw bit-for-bit to a physical device), why not do it directly:
>
> VBoxManage internalcommands converttoraw file.vdi /dev/sdb
>
Looks like VBoxManage won't write to a directory, darn.
/dev/sdb is not a directory. Unless your setup is *very* nonstandard,
it's a device, in fact a disk drive. In the worst case the app might
want to seek on it, but there's no reason it shouldn't be able to do
that.
BTW I don't see a convertoraw option in my copy of VBoxManage. Are you
quite sure of what you're doing?
poc
8:01 p.m.
On Sun, 2009-08-02 at 20:49 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
>/dev/sdb is not a directory. Unless your setup is *very*
nonstandard,
>it's a device, in fact a disk drive. In the worst case the app might
>want to seek on it, but there's no reason it shouldn't be able to do
>that.
Another item that has blown on by is that /dev/sdb is the whole
device. One
must have at least one mountable partition setup on the device, and
the
filesystem suitably initialized and mounted before the file can be
written.
There are some exceptions to that rule, generally involving either
an .iso
image, or 'dd' which can make an identical image on any writable
device at
least big enough to hold the image.
I was assuming the latter, given that the OP's version uses dd. However
it's starting to look like he may not be entirely sure of what he's
doing.
poc
7:49 p.m.
On Sunday 02 August 2009, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Sun, 2009-08-02 at 15:10 -0700, Bazooka Joe wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 10:41 AM, Patrick
>
> O'Callaghan<pocallaghan(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Sun, 2009-08-02 at 10:34 -0700, Bazooka Joe wrote:
> >> Is there a way to combine these 2 commands to cut my time in half?
> >>
> >> VBoxManage internalcommands converttoraw file.vdi file.raw
> >> then I have to run
> >> dd if=file.raw of=/dev/sdb
> >
> > Assuming the second line is correct (i.e. you really want to copy
> > file.raw bit-for-bit to a physical device), why not do it directly:
> >
> > VBoxManage internalcommands converttoraw file.vdi /dev/sdb
>
> Looks like VBoxManage won't write to a directory, darn.
/dev/sdb is not a directory. Unless your setup is *very* nonstandard,
it's a device, in fact a disk drive. In the worst case the app might
want to seek on it, but there's no reason it shouldn't be able to do
that.
Another item that has blown on by is that /dev/sdb is the whole device. One
must have at least one mountable partition setup on the device, and the
filesystem suitably initialized and mounted before the file can be written.
There are some exceptions to that rule, generally involving either an .iso
image, or 'dd' which can make an identical image on any writable device at
least big enough to hold the image. Otherwise you must name the partition on
the device and mount it. Example /dev/sdb3, mounted to /media/sdb3 for
instance.
BTW I don't see a convertoraw option in my copy of VBoxManage. Are you
quite sure of what you're doing?
poc
--
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them.
<https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp>
Where's the man could ease a heart
Like a satin gown?
-- Dorothy Parker, "The Satin Dress"
7:33 p.m.
On Sun, 2009-08-02 at 17:19 -0700, Les wrote:
On Sun, 2009-08-02 at 14:38 -0400, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
> On Sun, 2 Aug 2009, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 2009-08-02 at 12:54 -0500, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
> > > Bazooka Joe wrote:
> > > > Is there a way to combine these 2 commands to cut my time in half?
> > > >
> > > > VBoxManage internalcommands converttoraw file.vdi file.raw
> > > > then I have to run
> > > > dd if=file.raw of=/dev/sdb
> > > >
> > > > -thx
> > > >
> > > You can can command on the same command in several ways. It depends
> > > on what you put between the command.
> > >
> > > ; - always run the next command.
> > > && - run the second command only if the first command is
successful.
> > > || - run the second command if the first one fails.
> >
> > How is this going to reduce his total time? The commands are still
> > running sequentially.
>
> i'd bump up the blocksize of that dd command. IIRC, the default
> blocksize for dd is 512 bytes -- painfully small and resulting in lots
> and lots of little writes. crank up the blocksize significantly and
> that second command should speed up noticeably.
>
> rday
if the vbox command can follow fully qualified paths, you should be able
to simply say converttoraw file.vdi /pathtosda/file.raw
However, going between disks may be faster or slower, depending on the
way the command buffers the data, and/or handles disk I/O. Personally I
think some fundamental experimentation is in order. There is a final
issue in that some video files are protected in such a way that copying
them is prohibited. I don't know or care about the details as I never
do anything with video. However be aware that some driver software
includes checks for pirating video and audio. If your driver is setup
to prohibit copying according to the DMCA, it will not work as expected.
AFAIK the OP is trying to convert a VB virtual disk to a raw format.
Perhaps you misread vdi for dvi. I'm not sure it's even possible to do
what he's asking, but it has nothing to do with video.
poc
7:19 p.m.
On Sun, 2009-08-02 at 14:38 -0400, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
On Sun, 2 Aug 2009, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> On Sun, 2009-08-02 at 12:54 -0500, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
> > Bazooka Joe wrote:
> > > Is there a way to combine these 2 commands to cut my time in half?
> > >
> > > VBoxManage internalcommands converttoraw file.vdi file.raw
> > > then I have to run
> > > dd if=file.raw of=/dev/sdb
> > >
> > > -thx
> > >
> > You can can command on the same command in several ways. It depends
> > on what you put between the command.
> >
> > ; - always run the next command.
> > && - run the second command only if the first command is successful.
> > || - run the second command if the first one fails.
>
> How is this going to reduce his total time? The commands are still
> running sequentially.
i'd bump up the blocksize of that dd command. IIRC, the default
blocksize for dd is 512 bytes -- painfully small and resulting in lots
and lots of little writes. crank up the blocksize significantly and
that second command should speed up noticeably.
rday
if the vbox command can follow fully qualified paths, you should be able
to simply say converttoraw file.vdi /pathtosda/file.raw
However, going between disks may be faster or slower, depending on the
way the command buffers the data, and/or handles disk I/O. Personally I
think some fundamental experimentation is in order. There is a final
issue in that some video files are protected in such a way that copying
them is prohibited. I don't know or care about the details as I never
do anything with video. However be aware that some driver software
includes checks for pirating video and audio. If your driver is setup
to prohibit copying according to the DMCA, it will not work as expected.
dd may manage to copy the raw data, but again there may be information
encoded that will prevent the copy from playing.
Regards,
Les H
5:10 p.m.
On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 10:41 AM, Patrick
O'Callaghan<pocallaghan(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, 2009-08-02 at 10:34 -0700, Bazooka Joe wrote:
> Is there a way to combine these 2 commands to cut my time in half?
>
> VBoxManage internalcommands converttoraw file.vdi file.raw
> then I have to run
> dd if=file.raw of=/dev/sdb
Assuming the second line is correct (i.e. you really want to copy
file.raw bit-for-bit to a physical device), why not do it directly:
VBoxManage internalcommands converttoraw file.vdi /dev/sdb
Looks like VBoxManage won't write to a directory, darn.
1:30 p.m.
On Sun, 2009-08-02 at 12:54 -0500, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
Bazooka Joe wrote:
> Is there a way to combine these 2 commands to cut my time in half?
>
> VBoxManage internalcommands converttoraw file.vdi file.raw
> then I have to run
> dd if=file.raw of=/dev/sdb
>
> -thx
>
You can can command on the same command in several ways. It depends
on what you put between the command.
; - always run the next command.
&& - run the second command only if the first command is successful.
|| - run the second command if the first one fails.
How is this going to reduce his total time? The commands are still
running sequentially.
poc
2:26 p.m.
On Sun, 2009-08-02 at 14:38 -0400, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
On Sun, 2 Aug 2009, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> On Sun, 2009-08-02 at 12:54 -0500, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
> > Bazooka Joe wrote:
> > > Is there a way to combine these 2 commands to cut my time in half?
> > >
> > > VBoxManage internalcommands converttoraw file.vdi file.raw
> > > then I have to run
> > > dd if=file.raw of=/dev/sdb
> > >
> > > -thx
> > >
> > You can can command on the same command in several ways. It depends
> > on what you put between the command.
> >
> > ; - always run the next command.
> > && - run the second command only if the first command is successful.
> > || - run the second command if the first one fails.
>
> How is this going to reduce his total time? The commands are still
> running sequentially.
i'd bump up the blocksize of that dd command. IIRC, the default
blocksize for dd is 512 bytes -- painfully small and resulting in lots
and lots of little writes. crank up the blocksize significantly and
that second command should speed up noticeably.
That's often true, but it depends a lot on the natural blocksize of the
target device. Also, if it's something like a pendrive it doesn't seem
to make any difference, given as most of the time is spent in kernel
buffers anyway (even the fastest are a lot slower than RAM and they
don't use DMA).
poc
1:38 p.m.
On Sun, 2 Aug 2009, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Sun, 2009-08-02 at 12:54 -0500, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
> Bazooka Joe wrote:
> > Is there a way to combine these 2 commands to cut my time in half?
> >
> > VBoxManage internalcommands converttoraw file.vdi file.raw
> > then I have to run
> > dd if=file.raw of=/dev/sdb
> >
> > -thx
> >
> You can can command on the same command in several ways. It depends
> on what you put between the command.
>
> ; - always run the next command.
> && - run the second command only if the first command is successful.
> || - run the second command if the first one fails.
How is this going to reduce his total time? The commands are still
running sequentially.
i'd bump up the blocksize of that dd command. IIRC, the default
blocksize for dd is 512 bytes -- painfully small and resulting in lots
and lots of little writes. crank up the blocksize significantly and
that second command should speed up noticeably.
rday
--
========================================================================
Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA
Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry.
Web page: http://crashcourse.ca
Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday
"Kernel Newbie Corner" column @ linux.com: http://cli.gs/WG6WYX
========================================================================
12:56 p.m.
Ha ha - didn't think of that one. I will try it.
thx
On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 10:41 AM, Patrick
O'Callaghan<pocallaghan(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, 2009-08-02 at 10:34 -0700, Bazooka Joe wrote:
> Is there a way to combine these 2 commands to cut my time in half?
>
> VBoxManage internalcommands converttoraw file.vdi file.raw
> then I have to run
> dd if=file.raw of=/dev/sdb
Assuming the second line is correct (i.e. you really want to copy
file.raw bit-for-bit to a physical device), why not do it directly:
VBoxManage internalcommands converttoraw file.vdi /dev/sdb
poc
--
fedora-list mailing list
fedora-list(a)redhat.com
To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
12:41 p.m.
On Sun, 2009-08-02 at 10:34 -0700, Bazooka Joe wrote:
Is there a way to combine these 2 commands to cut my time in half?
VBoxManage internalcommands converttoraw file.vdi file.raw
then I have to run
dd if=file.raw of=/dev/sdb
Assuming the second line is correct (i.e. you really want to copy
file.raw bit-for-bit to a physical device), why not do it directly:
VBoxManage internalcommands converttoraw file.vdi /dev/sdb
poc
8:55 p.m.
On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 6:01 PM, Patrick
O'Callaghan<pocallaghan(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, 2009-08-02 at 20:49 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> >/dev/sdb is not a directory. Unless your setup is *very* nonstandard,
> >it's a device, in fact a disk drive. In the worst case the app might
> >want to seek on it, but there's no reason it shouldn't be able to do
> >that.
>
> Another item that has blown on by is that /dev/sdb is the whole
> device. One
> must have at least one mountable partition setup on the device, and
> the
> filesystem suitably initialized and mounted before the file can be
> written.
> There are some exceptions to that rule, generally involving either
> an .iso
> image, or 'dd' which can make an identical image on any writable
> device at
> least big enough to hold the image.
I was assuming the latter, given that the OP's version uses dd. However
it's starting to look like he may not be entirely sure of what he's
doing.
What I am doing is: installing an os (first fedora but gave up because
of bugs then cent) in Virtualbox tweeking cpu settings. Getting it
configured to run headless + amd geode processor + other things. then
once it is ready I run
VBoxManage internalcommands converttoraw
.VirtualBox/HardDisks/cent.vdi cent.raw
which converts the Vbox image to a raw image readable by dd. Then w/
dd i write it to the cf card. put the cf card in my embedded appliance
and see if it works. I have been tweaking and reinstalling for the
last day or two. I got cent working today on this board.
http://www.pcengines.ch/alix2d2.htm
With a 4G image it took about 45 min to convert to raw then write to
cf card. Because I kept redoing it I was looking to shorten that
conversion time.
on current ubuntu if I just type VBoxManager i am given a list of
option one of which is converttoraw.
thx for all your help but it looks like I am over the reinstalling
writing to cf card hump. Now to make it a wireless access point.
-bazooka
5395
days inactive
5396
days old
19 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
Bazooka Joe -
Gene Heskett -
Howard Howell -
Mikkel -
Patrick O'Callaghan -
Phil Meyer -
Robert P. J. Day