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[Giorgi Shonia]

On Monday 26 November 2007, fedora-list-request(a)redhat.com wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: a paper I can't find... (Vivek J. Patankar)
>    2. RE: Installing DVD iso (Duncan Berriman)
>    3. Re: PROJECT BLACKHAT (Mikkel L. Ellertson)
>    4. Re: OT: are usb flash drives suitable archival media?
>       (Bill Davidsen)
>    5. Re: Installing DVD iso (Mikkel L. Ellertson)
>    6. Re: Installing DVD iso (Mikkel L. Ellertson)
>    7. Re: PROJECT BLACKHAT (Les Mikesell)
>    8. Re: b43: Driver keeps upping CPU % until system freezes for a
>       few seconds? (Kelly Miller)
>    9. Re: Excessive network traffic - (Les Mikesell)
>   10. Re: PROJECT BLACKHAT (Karl Larsen)
>   11. Re: how to share internet connection in fedora (Karl Larsen)
>   12. Re: PROJECT BLACKHAT (Dave Ihnat)
>   13. Re: Installing DVD iso (Todd Zullinger)
>   14. Re: Wanna give me a hand debunking this? (Jeff Spaleta)
>   15. Re: Fonts (Firefox/Windows & Firefox/Linux) (Todd Zullinger)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 00:09:44 +0530
> From: "Vivek J. Patankar" <vivek.patankar(a)gmail.com&gt;
> Subject: Re: a paper I can't find...
> To: For users of Fedora <fedora-list(a)redhat.com&gt;
> Message-ID: <474B12F0.3070701(a)gmail.com&gt;
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
> Mike Chalmers wrote:
> > Years ago there was this paper written by a man who lost his job
> > because he wrote the paper. The paper was an uproar in the Linux
> > community. I cannot remember but I think that the paper was about why
> > Microsoft is wrong, among other things concerning Microsoft.
> >
> > Can anyone tell me where I can find this paper please, it is pretty
> > important that I find it? I know this is the Fedora list, but I don't
> > know where else to post on it where I can get a good response.
>
> What you are referring to are probably the famous "Halloween Documents"
> written by Vinod Valloppillil & Josh Cohen that were leaked from
> Microsoft and ultimately wound up with Eric S Raymond who published
> them. Link below
>
> http://www.catb.org/~esr/halloween
>
> AFAIR, Vinod didn't lose his job because he wrote them. It was an
> assignment of his. He quit MS sometime after they were leaked.
>
> --
> Regards,
> विवेक ज. पाटणकर (Vivek J. Patankar)
>
> Registered Linux User #374218
> Fedora release 7 (Moonshine)
> Linux 2.6.22.4-65.fc7 x86_64
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 18:43:14 -0000
> From: "Duncan Berriman" <duncan(a)dcl.co.uk&gt;
> Subject: RE: Installing DVD iso
> To: "'For users of Fedora'" <fedora-list(a)redhat.com&gt;
> Message-ID: <048301c8305c$343433e0$0502a8c0@CPQEVO>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="US-ASCII"
>
> I installed FC8 using http as I did not have a dvd on the system.
>
> Here is how I did it (may be other ways as this was my first attempt).
>
> Download the full dvd iso.
>
> Then either burn it to a dvd and configure your web server/ftp server to
> allow access to the dvd or copy the files off the dvd to your web
> server/dvd server. Alternatively extract the files directly from the iso to
> a directory on to your web server/ftp server.
>
> Download the Fedora Core 8 Rescue Disk iso image from
> (/pub/fedora/linux/releases/8/Fedora/i386/iso) and burn this on to a CD.
>
> Boot and Install
>
> Boot the server where you want to install FC8 from the Rescue Disk.
>
> When it boots choose Install or upgrade an existing system from the menu.
>
> Select the language and keyboard type from the menu.
>
> You can then choose to install from Local CD/DVD, Hard drive, NFS
> directory, FTP or HTTP
>
> Choose HTTP or FTP as appropriate and fill in the details.
>
> In my case I used Http so I then input just the ip address of my web server
> and the directory containing the unpacked iso image. If you are using a
> service over the internet then you need to target the 'os' directory
> (/pub/fedora/linux/releases/8/Fedora/i386/os for instance). I have not
> tried this yet!
>
> You can also use boot.iso (minimal boot) or diskboot.img (usb stick) to
> boot and start the install (These can be found in
> fedora/linux/releases/8/Fedora/i386/os/images on any mirror.)
>
> Duncan
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: fedora-list-bounces(a)redhat.com
> > [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of Bill Davidsen
> > Sent: 26 November 2007 18:51
> > To: For users of Fedora
> > Subject: Re: Installing DVD iso
> >
> > Robert L Cochran wrote:
> > > Right, and you can install over NFS: put the iso image in a
> >
> > directory on
> >
> > > a different Linux machine, export that directory over NFS,
> >
> > and then use
> >
> > > the rescue CD to start the installation with. Specify "NFS
> >
> > image" as the
> >
> > > installation type when you come to that screen.
> >
> > Have you actually /done that/ with anything newser than FC6?
> > Because I
> > posted a while ago here that I couldn't make it work, had
> > verified that
> > both the http and nfs access worked, and a number of people
> > agreed that
> > it hasn't worked recently because it's still trying to find
> > stuff on CD
> > subdirectories of some such.
> >
> > I took the download URLs right from the http server log, ran them on
> > another system, and verified that they worked and gave
> > correct. I tried
> > both the live CD install and the "boot.iso" versions to be sure I had
> > valid boots.
> >
> > > You can do it over ftp too. I haven't done an ftp install
> >
> > in a while
> >
> > > though.
> > >
> > > You can also do it over VNC. I've only done that once and
> >
> > with an early
> >
> > > version of Fedora Core, probably 2 or 3. VNC-based installs seems
> > > unnecssarily complicated to me.
> > >
> > > Why bother burning DVD media, if you can do it over the
> >
> > network or on a
> >
> > > hard drive they way Jeff suggests?
> >
> > Because recently the network install only seems to work if
> > you rsync the
> > whole tree and create a repository.
> >
> > --
> > Bill Davidsen <davidsen(a)tmr.com&gt;
> >    "We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent
> > than from
> > the machinations of the wicked."  - from Slashdot
> >
> > --
> > fedora-list mailing list
> > fedora-list(a)redhat.com
> > To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
> >
> > --
> > This message has been scanned for viruses and
> > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
> > believed to be clean.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 12:54:04 -0600
> From: "Mikkel L. Ellertson" <mikkel(a)infinity-ltd.com&gt;
> Subject: Re: PROJECT BLACKHAT
> To: For users of Fedora <fedora-list(a)redhat.com&gt;
> Message-ID: <474B164C.2040809(a)infinity-ltd.com&gt;
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Craig White wrote:
> > great
> >
> > we now have Gene, Frank and Dave as list moms.
> >
> > knock yourselves out guys, you will really be performing a valuable
> > service to the fedora-list by making sure that those who misspell,
> > grammatically fracture the language, etc. are summarily dismissed - even
> > banished from the list if necessary.
> >
> > Craig
>
> Well, I guess you can add me to that list. You seem to be missing
> the point - if you don't communicate clearly, then you are going to
> have a problem getting help, or persuading people to support your
> project. There are a lot of people on this list that will just
> ignore your message if they have to struggle to understand it. By
> this, I don't mean people struggling to write in English
> when it is not their native language.
>
> But sense you feel that clear posting is not necessary, then you
> handle these types of posts. After all, there is no reason they
> should try to reach the largest possible audience, is there?
>
> Mikkel
> --
>
>   Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons,
> for thou art crunchy and taste good with Ketchup!
>
>

[John Summerfield]

Tim wrote:

>  Oi!  Read the addresses quoted above very carefully.  You're
> sending
>  your unsubscribe to the wrong address.
>   
If OP was reading the mail, your reply wouldn't be needed.


-- 

Cheers
John

-- spambait
1aaaaaaa(a)coco.merseine.nu  Z1aaaaaaa(a)coco.merseine.nu
-- Advice
http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375

You cannot reply off-list:-)

[Tim]

Tim:
> > Oi!  Read the addresses quoted above very carefully.  You're
> sending
> > your unsubscribe to the wrong address.  
John Summerfield:
>  If OP was reading the mail, your reply wouldn't be needed.
You'd hope so, but I think that's three unsub messages I've seen in the
last few days.  Sometimes people don't notice that the addresses aren't
quite the same until another hint comes along.

-- 
(This computer runs FC7, my others run FC4, FC5 & FC6, in case that's
 important to the thread.)

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored.
I read messages from the public lists.

[Lamar Owen]

On Tuesday 27 November 2007, Tim wrote:
>  On Tue, 2007-11-27 at 22:35 +0800, Ed Greshko wrote:
>  > Which is why, when I see these unsubscribe messages, I reply directly
>  > to the individual and don't copy the list. 
>  But the next person trying to unsub who makes a token effort to find
> out
>  how, might just see the unsub thread, and a solution. 
Quite honestly, if someone won't read the directions on how to unsub they are 
not likely to find or use the archives.  Possible, perhaps, but not likely. 
This thread is too long already....
-- 
Lamar Owen
Chief Information Officer
Pisgah Astronomical Research Institute
1 PARI Drive
Rosman, NC  28772
[phone]
www.pari.edu

[Tim]

On Tue, 2007-11-27 at 22:35 +0800, Ed Greshko wrote:
>  Which is why, when I see these unsubscribe messages, I reply
> directly
>  to the individual and don't copy the list.  
But the next person trying to unsub who makes a token effort to find out
how, might just see the unsub thread, and a solution.

I agree that I wouldn't go doing this as a regular thing, but once in a
while can be a good thing.

-- 
(This computer runs FC7, my others run FC4, FC5 & FC6, in case that's
 important to the thread.)

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored.
I read messages from the public lists.

[Ed Greshko]

Tim wrote:

>  You'd hope so, but I think that's three unsub messages
> I've seen in the
>  last few days.  Sometimes people don't notice that the addresses aren't
>  quite the same until another hint comes along. 
Which is why, when I see these unsubscribe messages, I reply directly to the
individual and don't copy the list.

[Rick Stevens]

On Fri, 2007-11-30 at 07:49 +0900, John Summerfield wrote:
>  Rick Stevens wrote:
>  
>  > Even one "tens of decades" would make you over 100 years old, John.
>  > You sure seem spry for a centarian!  ;-)
>  
>  Whoops. I guess the rest puts it in the right timeframe.
>  
>  
>  My prospects of reaching one centenary aren't bad, my grandmother did 
>  and my parents are in their late 80s. Don't think I want two though. 
"Do you wear boxers or briefs?"  "Depends."

I just reached 1/2 of a "tens of decades".  Four score and ten.  Five
decades.  Fifty years.  Mom's 78.  I may make it...but I'm not betting
on it.  ;-)

----------------------------------------------------------------------
- Rick Stevens, Principal Engineer             rstevens(a)internap.com -
- CDN Systems, Internap, Inc.                http://www.internap.com -
-                                                                    -
-      On a scale of 1 to 10 I'd say...  oh, somewhere in there.     -
----------------------------------------------------------------------

[Rick Stevens]

On Fri, 2007-11-30 at 06:18 +0900, John Summerfield wrote:
>  Tim wrote:
>  > Craig White:
>  >>>> aussie aussie aussie
>  >>>> oy oy oy
>  > 
>  > Tim: 
>  >>> I never head that childish chant before until we had some soldiers doing
>  >>> some sort of rescue mission overseas.  It's not a part of *our*
> culture.
>  > 
>  > Alan Cox:
>  >> Its a very old part of Australian culture, one that came over with
>  >> 'cousin Jack' (the tin miners from Cornwall). So old nobody is entirely
>  >> sure of its origin although the most credible one seems to be from Oggie
>  >> (Kernowek: Hoggan) for a Cornish Pastie (Oggie oggie oggie! being shouted
>  >> down a mine to indicate lunch arriving).
>  > 
>  > Must be regional then, I've *NEVER* heard it before then, in South
>  > Australia.
>  
>  I gather it got some airing at the Sydney games. I've not been to a 
>  sporting event for some tens of decades, the last I can recall was 
>  cricket in Canberra, where I sat near John Grey Gorton. 
Even one "tens of decades" would make you over 100 years old, John.
You sure seem spry for a centarian!  ;-)

>  Nor do I watch TV, but I certainly knew of it. Seems to have become 
>  popular with the Young Generation.
>  
>  > 
>  > ... What's that skip?  He's broken a leg?  You fly the chopper and I'll
>  > drive over with the first aid kit...
>  > 
>  For the rest of the world, John Gorton was a WWII fighter pilot, got 
>  shot down and took some facial injuries, and looked like it. He was 
>  promoted to leadership of the Liberals while in the Senate when H Holt 
>  took his last swim, was deftly switched to the House of Reps and so to 
>  PM. He further distinguished himself by voting against himself in a 
>  motion of bo confidence in the party room, allowing Billy McMahon to 
>  lead the coalition to an election lost to the "It's Time" Labor lead by 
>  E G Whitlam. 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
- Rick Stevens, Principal Engineer             rstevens(a)internap.com -
- CDN Systems, Internap, Inc.                http://www.internap.com -
-                                                                    -
-               Duct Tape + Magic Marker = Label Maker!              -
----------------------------------------------------------------------

[Tim]

Tim:
> > Good grief, it's bloody obvious if you apply a tiny amount of
> thought to
> > it.  How stupid does one have to be to not realise that someone who
> > doesn't identify themselves does not want to be identified? 
John Summerfield:
>  Calm down Tim; if you didn't want to be identified, you've
> made several 
>  mistakes, the most recent biting when I suggested the localhost name. 
>  All _I_ knew for certain was where your email entered the Internet. 
I'm only mildly annoyed.  I'm more surprised, than anything else, that
you'd do something so daft.

I make a trivial effort to remain relatively anonymous, and avoid the
usual spam harvesters.  It doesn't stop those who know what they're
doing from working things out, but I'd expect that such people would
know better than to do what you did.
 
> > I do use my real name, just not all of it.  E-mail addresses, the
> user
> > account name part (left of the @ sign), are not names.  Or should we
> > call you "Debian"? 
>  Please yourself, spammers did. I actually created that address to use
> in 
>  connexion with the taroon beta, to protect my more usual email addresses 
>  from spammers. 
On other mailing lists, where I had decided to let people contact me, I
had an e-mail address beginning with "sir".  At least it forced a bit of
manners on to address harvesting spammers, such junk mail came addressed
to me as "dear sir".  ;-)  'twas nothing more than a private joke,
though.

> > Consider yourself privileged, Debby, ;-) that I let strangers
> refer to
> > me by my first name, rather than sir, or mister in front of my surname. 
>  From my viewpoint, how would you describe your attitude now? 
It's called paying someone out for doing two things as daft as you did.
Not respecting anonymity, then going on to talk to me about using
pseudonyms when I was already using my real name, and not using any
pseudonyms.  If you'd looked a bit harder, you'd have noticed those
points.

If I was going to flame you, I'd be far more scathing.

-- 
(This computer runs FC7, my others run FC4, FC5 & FC6, in case that's
 important to the thread.)

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored.
I read messages from the public lists.

[John Summerfield]

Tim wrote:
>  Tim:
> >> 'tis considered extremely bad etiquette to try un-anonymising someone.
>  
>  John Summerfield:
> > I've never heard that.
>  
>  Good grief, it's bloody obvious if you apply a tiny amount of thought to
>  it.  How stupid does one have to be to not realise that someone who
>  doesn't identify themselves does not want to be identified?  Try looking 
Calm down Tim; if you didn't want to be identified, you've made several 
mistakes, the most recent biting when I suggested the localhost name. 
All _I_ knew for certain was where your email entered the Internet.

I did nothing difficult or time-consuming, and if you seriously don't 
want to be identified, it's not hard to arrange it so that it's not so 
trivial.

You and I both manage our own mail servers, it's trivial to create an 
account (as I did), and to configure my name in 
Seamonkey/Thunderbird/Kmail/Evolution or any other email client to 
"Kevin Rudd" should I choose.


>  up general etiquette, then; never mind something specific to e-mail.
>  You've been around long enough that you ought to know that sort of
>  thing.
>  
> > I'm more bothered by those who try to hide behind ridiculous pseudonyms.
>  
>  I do use my real name, just not all of it.  E-mail addresses, the user
>  account name part (left of the @ sign), are not names.  Or should we
>  call you "Debian"? 
Please yourself, spammers did. I actually created that address to use in 
connexion with the taroon beta, to protect my more usual email addresses 
from spammers.


>  
>  Consider yourself privileged, Debby, ;-) that I let strangers refer to
>  me by my first name, rather than sir, or mister in front of my surname. 
 From my viewpoint, how would you describe your attitude now?

Calling me silly names doesn't make you look so good.

>  
> > It's true you cannot email me at this address any more, but it's done a 
> > wonderful job on the spammers;-), and the name is actually the one my 
> > parents gave me.
> >
> >
> > Cheers
> > John
> >
> > -- spambait
>  
>  Or is it "John Spambait"?  (Comment not intended to be taken seriously.)
??

Anyone writing to those addresses is, by definition, a spammer.

-- 

Cheers
John

-- spambait
1aaaaaaa(a)coco.merseine.nu  Z1aaaaaaa(a)coco.merseine.nu
-- Advice
http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375

You cannot reply off-list:-)

[Tim]

Tim:
> > 'tis considered extremely bad etiquette to try un-anonymising
> someone. 
John Summerfield:
>  I've never heard that. 
Good grief, it's bloody obvious if you apply a tiny amount of thought to
it.  How stupid does one have to be to not realise that someone who
doesn't identify themselves does not want to be identified?  Try looking
up general etiquette, then; never mind something specific to e-mail.
You've been around long enough that you ought to know that sort of
thing.

>  I'm more bothered by those who try to hide behind ridiculous
> pseudonyms. 
I do use my real name, just not all of it.  E-mail addresses, the user
account name part (left of the @ sign), are not names.  Or should we
call you "Debian"?

Consider yourself privileged, Debby, ;-) that I let strangers refer to
me by my first name, rather than sir, or mister in front of my surname.

>  It's true you cannot email me at this address any more, but
> it's done a 
>  wonderful job on the spammers;-), and the name is actually the one my 
>  parents gave me.
>
>  
>  Cheers
>  John
>  
>  -- spambait 
Or is it "John Spambait"?  (Comment not intended to be taken seriously.)

-- 
(This computer runs FC7, my others run FC4, FC5 & FC6, in case that's
 important to the thread.)

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored.
I read messages from the public lists.

[Ed Greshko]

Arthur Pemberton wrote:
>  On Nov 27, 2007 8:35 AM, Ed Greshko <Ed.Greshko(a)greshko.com&gt;
> wrote:
> > Tim wrote:
> >
> >> You'd hope so, but I think that's three unsub messages I've seen in
> the
> >> last few days.  Sometimes people don't notice that the addresses aren't
> >> quite the same until another hint comes along.
> > Which is why, when I see these unsubscribe messages, I reply directly to the
> > individual and don't copy the list.
>  
>  
>  Seems to me you're encouraging lazyness. It doesn't take much effort. 
If you like, you can think that way.  Or, you could think it is a simple
matter of avoiding more needless traffic on this mailing list.

I've no idea what you mean by "It doesn't take much effort".  It takes
me
more effort to send a private message to the induhvidual than the list and
the person still needs to unsubscribe the usual way.

These unsubscribe emails don't happen that often...but when they do they
clutter the list with more chatter...like this message...than the original
OP.  If everyone/someone would just reply directly and not get all bent out
of shape...well you know the rest of the story.

[John Summerfield]

Tim wrote:

o need, what I do works fine for me.  And 'tis considered extremely bad
>  etiquette to try un-anonymising someone. 
I've never heard that. I'm more bothered by those who try to hide behind 
ridiculous pseudonyms.

It's true you cannot email me at this address any more, but it's done a 
wonderful job on the spammers;-), and the name is actually the one my 
parents gave me.






-- 

Cheers
John

-- spambait
1aaaaaaa(a)coco.merseine.nu  Z1aaaaaaa(a)coco.merseine.nu
-- Advice
http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375

You cannot reply off-list:-)

[Tim]

Tim:
> > 'tis considered extremely bad etiquette to try un-anonymising
> someone. 
Frank Cox:
>  http://www.kidneyschool.org/mod_05/photos/m05_p01.gif 
Hahaha, love it...

-- 
(This computer runs FC7, my others run FC4, FC5 & FC6, in case that's
 important to the thread.)

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored.
I read messages from the public lists.

[Alan Cox]

On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 21:22:01 +1030
Tim <ignored_mailbox(a)yahoo.com.au&gt; wrote:

>  On Wed, 2007-11-28 at 16:36 -0700, Craig White wrote:
>  > aussie aussie aussie
>  > oy oy oy
>  
>  I never head that childish chant before until we had some soldiers doing
>  some sort of rescue mission overseas.  It's not a part of *our* culture. 
Its a very old part of Australian culture, one that came over with
'cousin Jack' (the tin miners from Cornwall). So old nobody is entirely
sure of its origin although the most credible one seems to be from Oggie
(Kernowek: Hoggan) for a Cornish Pastie (Oggie oggie oggie! being shouted
down a mine to indicate lunch arriving).

Somewhere along the way someone turned it from "Oggie" into "Aussie"
for .au spots [ab]use.

Alan

[Ed Greshko]

Tim wrote:

>  The one who missed things was you.  I wasn't using pseudonyms, I
> already
>  had an address that blocked spam, and it was a real e-mail address.  My
>  mail client was already set up exactly as you were telling me to change
>  it to ("from" addressing information, etc.).  You looked at the wrong
>  information (message IDs and mail SERVER addresses in the headers).
>  Look again... this time not quoting the information.  I'd have to stuff
>  up using proper domain names throughout my entire computer network to
>  remove that information. 
I still don't get what the *real* issue is....

Spammers don't go through hoops to get email addresses to spam to.  And they
certainly aren't interested in targeting a single individual.  The processes
that do grab email addresses do from various headers which is why I get
incoming mail addressed to 474EB1A7.3050102(a)greshko.com cause that was in a
Message-Id header.

I really don't think anyone is all that interested in finding out who you
are.  At least not the spammers.  If anyone really wanted to out you all
they would have to do is look in the headers and then do an appropriate
"whois" lookup.

If you really want to be "anonymous" then you really need to do a better job
of it...and there is no point in complaining that someone named you when the
veil you've placed around yourself is as transparent as it is.

[Tim]

Craig White:
> >> aussie aussie aussie
> >> oy oy oy 
Tim: 
> > I never head that childish chant before until we had some
> soldiers doing
> > some sort of rescue mission overseas.  It's not a part of *our* culture. 
Alan Cox:
>  Its a very old part of Australian culture, one that came over with
>  'cousin Jack' (the tin miners from Cornwall). So old nobody is entirely
>  sure of its origin although the most credible one seems to be from Oggie
>  (Kernowek: Hoggan) for a Cornish Pastie (Oggie oggie oggie! being shouted
>  down a mine to indicate lunch arriving). 
Must be regional then, I've *NEVER* heard it before then, in South
Australia.

... What's that skip?  He's broken a leg?  You fly the chopper and I'll
drive over with the first aid kit...

-- 
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 important to the thread.)

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored.
I read messages from the public lists.

[Tim]

On Wed, 2007-11-28 at 16:36 -0700, Craig White wrote:
>  aussie aussie aussie
>  oy oy oy 
I never head that childish chant before until we had some soldiers doing
some sort of rescue mission overseas.  It's not a part of *our* culture.

>  are you guys having fun?  
No, this isn't what I call fun, it's just a conversation.  Fun would be
me down at the beach in the recent weather that we've been having.

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[Tim]

Tim:
> > I make a trivial effort to remain relatively anonymous, and avoid
> the
> > usual spam harvesters.  It doesn't stop those who know what they're
> > doing from working things out, but I'd expect that such people would
> > know better than to do what you did. 
John Summerfield:
>  The email address I suggested is unusable outside your mail server.
> See 
>  what the host IP address is. That was the key point to my suggestion. 
I know, but 'twasn't anon, that's my key point against it.  If I wanted
to use my own domain name on here, I could do so, in any manner of
different ways, and still block reception of mail to it (null
sub-domains, non-existent mail boxes, etc.).  You weren't telling me
anything that I didn't already know, thought about, and rejected long
ago.

> > It's called paying someone out for doing two things as daft
> as you did.
> > Not respecting anonymity, then going on to talk to me about using
> > pseudonyms when I was already using my real name, and not using any
> > pseudonyms.  If you'd looked a bit harder, you'd have noticed those
> > points. 
>  It's perfectly possible that you've overlooked something,
> maybe that the 
>  email address I used is unusable, though it's in your power to change 
>  that when you need to receive its email to subscribe to a list. 
The one who missed things was you.  I wasn't using pseudonyms, I already
had an address that blocked spam, and it was a real e-mail address.  My
mail client was already set up exactly as you were telling me to change
it to ("from" addressing information, etc.).  You looked at the wrong
information (message IDs and mail SERVER addresses in the headers).
Look again... this time not quoting the information.  I'd have to stuff
up using proper domain names throughout my entire computer network to
remove that information.

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[Frank Cox]

On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 17:31:20 +1030
Tim <ignored_mailbox(a)yahoo.com.au&gt; wrote:

>  And 'tis considered extremely bad
>  etiquette to try un-anonymising someone. 
http://www.kidneyschool.org/mod_05/photos/m05_p01.gif

-- 
MELVILLE THEATRE ~ Melville Sask ~ http://www.melvilletheatre.com

[Arthur Pemberton]

On Nov 27, 2007 8:35 AM, Ed Greshko <Ed.Greshko(a)greshko.com&gt; wrote:
>  Tim wrote:
>
>  > You'd hope so, but I think that's three unsub messages I've seen in the
>  > last few days.  Sometimes people don't notice that the addresses aren't
>  > quite the same until another hint comes along.
>
>  Which is why, when I see these unsubscribe messages, I reply directly to the
>  individual and don't copy the list. 

Seems to me you're encouraging lazyness. It doesn't take much effort.


-- 
Fedora 7 : sipping some of that moonshine
( www.pembo13.com )

[Tim]

On Wed, 2007-11-28 at 08:17 +0900, John Summerfield wrote:
>  btw try xxxxxx for an unusable address. 
No need, what I do works fine for me.  And 'tis considered extremely bad
etiquette to try un-anonymising someone.

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 important to the thread.)

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[Tim]

On Tue, 2007-11-27 at 11:22 -0500, Lamar Owen wrote:
>  This thread is too long already.... 
/me takes the scissors out of the sewing box...  snip!

How's the weather over there...?   ;-)

-- 

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored.
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[John Summerfield]

Rick Stevens wrote:

>  Even one "tens of decades" would make you over 100 years
> old, John.
>  You sure seem spry for a centarian!  ;-) 
Whoops. I guess the rest puts it in the right timeframe.


My prospects of reaching one centenary aren't bad, my grandmother did 
and my parents are in their late 80s. Don't think I want two though.



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Cheers
John

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[John Summerfield]

Tim wrote:
>  Craig White:
> >>> aussie aussie aussie
> >>> oy oy oy
>  
>  Tim: 
> >> I never head that childish chant before until we had some soldiers doing
> >> some sort of rescue mission overseas.  It's not a part of *our* culture.
>  
>  Alan Cox:
> > Its a very old part of Australian culture, one that came over with
> > 'cousin Jack' (the tin miners from Cornwall). So old nobody is entirely
> > sure of its origin although the most credible one seems to be from Oggie
> > (Kernowek: Hoggan) for a Cornish Pastie (Oggie oggie oggie! being shouted
> > down a mine to indicate lunch arriving).
>  
>  Must be regional then, I've *NEVER* heard it before then, in South
>  Australia. 
I gather it got some airing at the Sydney games. I've not been to a 
sporting event for some tens of decades, the last I can recall was 
cricket in Canberra, where I sat near John Grey Gorton.

Nor do I watch TV, but I certainly knew of it. Seems to have become 
popular with the Young Generation.

>  
>  ... What's that skip?  He's broken a leg?  You fly the chopper and I'll
>  drive over with the first aid kit...
>   
For the rest of the world, John Gorton was a WWII fighter pilot, got 
shot down and took some facial injuries, and looked like it. He was 
promoted to leadership of the Liberals while in the Senate when H Holt 
took his last swim, was deftly switched to the House of Reps and so to 
PM. He further distinguished himself by voting against himself in a 
motion of bo confidence in the party room, allowing Billy McMahon to 
lead the coalition to an election lost to the "It's Time" Labor lead by 
E G Whitlam.

-- 

Cheers
John

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[Tim]

On Thu, 2007-11-29 at 20:38 +0800, Ed Greshko wrote:
>  I still don't get what the *real* issue is.... 
Mostly from someone sticking their oar in, telling me to do something
completely unnecessary, not paying enough attention in the first place
to realise it was unnecessary, continuing to argue the point, and having
the bad manners not to respect the common courtesy of not revealing
information that was deliberately withheld.

Hell, there's even an RFC about that sort of thing for IRC, and other
systems.  That when someone goes on-line using some name/ID, you refer
to them using that name, not revealing information to others that they
kept to themselves.

>  Spammers don't go through hoops to get email addresses to spam
> to.  
I know, that's why I post from this address, and don't bother trying to
obscure headers.  Addresses in them aren't going to help spammers, they
don't lead to mailboxes.

They could even have been faked, I could have used someone else's domain
name.  I'm presuming that the lack of conversations in that direction
means that people have made a brief check, first.

>  If you really want to be "anonymous" then you really need
> to do a
>  better job of it...and there is no point in complaining that someone
>  named you when the veil you've placed around yourself is as
>  transparent as it is. 
I take enough steps to ward off the spam, or stop receiving mail from
those not able to figure out how to do so on their own.  I expressed my
displeasure at the actions of some others too stupid to think about what
they're doing, first.  I could work out the home phone numbers and
street addresses of some people on this list, and post them here, if I
were similarly rude.  But to actually do so would be a grossly
inappropriate thing to do, and I know that without people having to
write instructions to that effect.

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 important to the thread.)

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored.
I read messages from the public lists.

[John Summerfield]

Tim wrote:
>  On Tue, 2007-11-27 at 11:22 -0500, Lamar Owen wrote:
> > This thread is too long already....
>  
>  /me takes the scissors out of the sewing box...  snip!
>  
>  How's the weather over there...?   ;-)
>   
According to The West, California's on fire, again. Like we will be soon.

btw try tim(a)localhost.cameratim.com for an unusable address.

-- 

Cheers
John

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[Craig White]

On Thu, 2007-11-29 at 08:23 +0900, John Summerfield wrote:
>  Tim wrote:
>  > Tim:
>  >>> Good grief, it's bloody obvious if you apply a tiny amount of thought
> to
>  >>> it.  How stupid does one have to be to not realise that someone who
>  >>> doesn't identify themselves does not want to be identified?
>  > 
>  > John Summerfield:
>  >> Calm down Tim; if you didn't want to be identified, you've made several
>
>  >> mistakes, the most recent biting when I suggested the localhost name. 
>  >> All _I_ knew for certain was where your email entered the Internet.
>  > 
>  > I'm only mildly annoyed.  I'm more surprised, than anything else, that
>  > you'd do something so daft.
>  > 
>  > I make a trivial effort to remain relatively anonymous, and avoid the
>  > usual spam harvesters.  It doesn't stop those who know what they're
>  > doing from working things out, but I'd expect that such people would
>  > know better than to do what you did.
>  
>  The email address I suggested is unusable outside your mail server. See 
>  what the host IP address is. That was the key point to my suggestion.
>  
>  
>  >  
>  >>> I do use my real name, just not all of it.  E-mail addresses, the user
>  >>> account name part (left of the @ sign), are not names.  Or should we
>  >>> call you "Debian"?
>  > 
>  >> Please yourself, spammers did. I actually created that address to use in 
>  >> connexion with the taroon beta, to protect my more usual email addresses 
>  >> from spammers.
>  > 
>  > On other mailing lists, where I had decided to let people contact me, I
>  > had an e-mail address beginning with "sir".  At least it forced a bit of
>  > manners on to address harvesting spammers, such junk mail came addressed
>  > to me as "dear sir".  ;-)  'twas nothing more than a private joke,
>  > though.
>  
>  <->
>  
>  > 
>  >>> Consider yourself privileged, Debby, ;-) that I let strangers refer to
>  >>> me by my first name, rather than sir, or mister in front of my surname.
>  > 
>  >> From my viewpoint, how would you describe your attitude now?
>  > 
>  > It's called paying someone out for doing two things as daft as you did.
>  > Not respecting anonymity, then going on to talk to me about using
>  > pseudonyms when I was already using my real name, and not using any
>  > pseudonyms.  If you'd looked a bit harder, you'd have noticed those
>  > points.
>  
>  It's perfectly possible that you've overlooked something, maybe that the 
>  email address I used is unusable, though it's in your power to change 
>  that when you need to receive its email to subscribe to a list.
>  
>  > If I was going to flame you, I'd be far more scathing. 
----
aussie aussie aussie
oy oy oy

are you guys having fun?

Craig

[John Summerfield]

Tim wrote:
>  Tim:
> >> Good grief, it's bloody obvious if you apply a tiny amount of thought to
> >> it.  How stupid does one have to be to not realise that someone who
> >> doesn't identify themselves does not want to be identified?
>  
>  John Summerfield:
> > Calm down Tim; if you didn't want to be identified, you've made several 
> > mistakes, the most recent biting when I suggested the localhost name. 
> > All _I_ knew for certain was where your email entered the Internet.
>  
>  I'm only mildly annoyed.  I'm more surprised, than anything else, that
>  you'd do something so daft.
>  
>  I make a trivial effort to remain relatively anonymous, and avoid the
>  usual spam harvesters.  It doesn't stop those who know what they're
>  doing from working things out, but I'd expect that such people would
>  know better than to do what you did. 
The email address I suggested is unusable outside your mail server. See 
what the host IP address is. That was the key point to my suggestion.


>   
> >> I do use my real name, just not all of it.  E-mail addresses, the user
> >> account name part (left of the @ sign), are not names.  Or should we
> >> call you "Debian"?
>  
> > Please yourself, spammers did. I actually created that address to use in 
> > connexion with the taroon beta, to protect my more usual email addresses 
> > from spammers.
>  
>  On other mailing lists, where I had decided to let people contact me, I
>  had an e-mail address beginning with "sir".  At least it forced a bit of
>  manners on to address harvesting spammers, such junk mail came addressed
>  to me as "dear sir".  ;-)  'twas nothing more than a private joke,
>  though. 
<->

>  
> >> Consider yourself privileged, Debby, ;-) that I let strangers refer to
> >> me by my first name, rather than sir, or mister in front of my surname.
>  
> > From my viewpoint, how would you describe your attitude now?
>  
>  It's called paying someone out for doing two things as daft as you did.
>  Not respecting anonymity, then going on to talk to me about using
>  pseudonyms when I was already using my real name, and not using any
>  pseudonyms.  If you'd looked a bit harder, you'd have noticed those
>  points. 
It's perfectly possible that you've overlooked something, maybe that the 
email address I used is unusable, though it's in your power to change 
that when you need to receive its email to subscribe to a list.

>  If I was going to flame you, I'd be far more scathing. 
That would reflect more on you than on me. To illustrate, Malcolm 
Turnbull's assertion we should have signed the Kyoto agreement has, I'm 
sure, offended more people than it's pleased. Assuming he wins today's 
vote, he could subsequently agree with the new government's decision to 
sign it, there's no need for any particular comment or criticism on 
previous leadership.



-- 

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John

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[Tim]

> > Send fedora-list mailing list submissions to
> >       fedora-list(a)redhat.com
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >       https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >       fedora-list-request(a)redhat.com  
Oi!  Read the addresses quoted above very carefully.  You're sending
your unsubscribe to the wrong address.

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Using FC 4, 5, 6 & 7, plus CentOS 5.  Today, it's FC7.

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored.
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unsubscribe (not really, but...)

[Rick Stevens]

On Thu, 2007-11-29 at 21:33 -0500, Carroll Grigsby wrote:
>  On Thursday 29 November 2007 6:39:32 pm Rick Stevens wrote:
>  > On Fri, 2007-11-30 at 07:49 +0900, John Summerfield wrote:
>  > > Rick Stevens wrote:
>  > > > Even one "tens of decades" would make you over 100 years old,
> John.
>  > > > You sure seem spry for a centarian!  ;-)
>  > >
>  > > Whoops. I guess the rest puts it in the right timeframe.
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > My prospects of reaching one centenary aren't bad, my grandmother did
>  > > and my parents are in their late 80s. Don't think I want two though.
>  >
>  > "Do you wear boxers or briefs?"  "Depends."
>  >
>  > I just reached 1/2 of a "tens of decades".  Four score and ten.  Five
>  > decades.  Fifty years.  Mom's 78.  I may make it...but I'm not betting
>  > on it.  ;-)
>  
>  A minor point, but in this context a score is twenty. Being four score and ten 
>  would make you 12 years older than your mother. Or has she spent a lot of 
>  time traveling at the speed of light? 
Aw, sh**!  Right.  Two score and ten.  Jeeze!  Hoist by my own petard!

There was a quantum mechanic named Breen
Who had the fastest machine on the scene
He drove fast as light
And with no cops in sight
He'd blueshift the red lights to green

----------------------------------------------------------------------
- Rick Stevens, Principal Engineer             rstevens(a)internap.com -
- CDN Systems, Internap, Inc.                http://www.internap.com -
-                                                                    -
-        God is real...........unless declared integer or long       -
----------------------------------------------------------------------

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[Ric Moore]

On Thu, 2007-11-29 at 21:33 -0500, Carroll Grigsby wrote:
>  On Thursday 29 November 2007 6:39:32 pm Rick Stevens wrote:
>  > On Fri, 2007-11-30 at 07:49 +0900, John Summerfield wrote:
>  > > Rick Stevens wrote:
>  > > > Even one "tens of decades" would make you over 100 years old,
> John.
>  > > > You sure seem spry for a centarian!  ;-)
>  > >
>  > > Whoops. I guess the rest puts it in the right timeframe.
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > My prospects of reaching one centenary aren't bad, my grandmother did
>  > > and my parents are in their late 80s. Don't think I want two though.
>  >
>  > "Do you wear boxers or briefs?"  "Depends."
>  >
>  > I just reached 1/2 of a "tens of decades".  Four score and ten.  Five
>  > decades.  Fifty years.  Mom's 78.  I may make it...but I'm not betting
>  > on it.  ;-)
>  
>  A minor point, but in this context a score is twenty. Being four score and ten 
>  would make you 12 years older than your mother. Or has she spent a lot of 
>  time traveling at the speed of light? 
Ha! I would call that a major point! I'm at the boxers stage myself. I
wonder why that happens?? Gotta think about that one and just when it
happened? Ric

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================================================
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================================================

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[Carroll Grigsby]

On Thursday 29 November 2007 6:39:32 pm Rick Stevens wrote:
>  On Fri, 2007-11-30 at 07:49 +0900, John Summerfield wrote:
>  > Rick Stevens wrote:
>  > > Even one "tens of decades" would make you over 100 years old, John.
>  > > You sure seem spry for a centarian!  ;-)
>  >
>  > Whoops. I guess the rest puts it in the right timeframe.
>  >
>  >
>  > My prospects of reaching one centenary aren't bad, my grandmother did
>  > and my parents are in their late 80s. Don't think I want two though.
>
>  "Do you wear boxers or briefs?"  "Depends."
>
>  I just reached 1/2 of a "tens of decades".  Four score and ten.  Five
>  decades.  Fifty years.  Mom's 78.  I may make it...but I'm not betting
>  on it.  ;-) 
A minor point, but in this context a score is twenty. Being four score and ten 
would make you 12 years older than your mother. Or has she spent a lot of 
time traveling at the speed of light?

-- cmg