Installation Question

[Ali Helmy]

Hey All,

I'm just rather new to FC4, so bare with me please if this question is
rather dumb & silly. I have a Windows XP Professional system, that boots
directly from the HDD, now I have downloaded the FC4 DVD image from the
website, and can mount it on a virtual DVD-ROM, like Daemon Tools.

Now, I do not have a DVD or CD writer, so is it possible that I can install
FC4 without having to burn those images, or is it absolutely impossible?

Thanks

--
A. Helmy

[Ankush Grover]

On 12/1/05, Ali Helmy  wrote:
> Hey All,
>
> I'm just rather new to FC4, so bare with me please if this question is
> rather dumb & silly. I have a Windows XP Professional system, that boots
> directly from the HDD, now I have downloaded the FC4 DVD image from the
> website, and can mount it on a virtual DVD-ROM, like Daemon Tools.
>
> Now, I do not have a DVD or CD writer, so is it possible that I can
> install FC4 without having to burn those images, or is it absolutely
> impossible?

Hey,

check this url

http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=fedora-list&m=111888238112836&w=2

[Anil Kumar Sharma]

This is good stuff, I mean preparing for FC n !
The boot.iso need be burned for booting? or any other possibility like USB
flashdisk?
Thanks

On 12/1/05, Ankush Grover  wrote:
> On 12/1/05, Ali Helmy  wrote:
> > Hey All,
> >
> > I'm just rather new to FC4, so bare with me please if this question is
> > rather dumb & silly. I have a Windows XP Professional system, that boots
> > directly from the HDD, now I have downloaded the FC4 DVD image from the
> > website, and can mount it on a virtual DVD-ROM, like Daemon Tools.
> >
> > Now, I do not have a DVD or CD writer, so is it possible that I can
> > install FC4 without having to burn those images, or is it absolutely
> > impossible?
>
> Hey,
>
> check this url
>
> http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=fedora-list&m=111888238112836&w=2
>
> --
> fedora-list mailing list
> [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list

--
Anil Kumar Shrama

[Markku Kolkka]

Anil Kumar Sharma kirjoitti viestissään (lähetysaika torstai, 1. 
joulukuuta 2005 13:19):
> The boot.iso need be burned for booting? or any other
> possibility like USB flashdisk?

Yes, you can boot from an USB device by using the diskboot.img 
file. It's a drive image so it must be dumped to the flashdisk 
by dd, rawrite or a similar tool, just copying the file won't 
work.

[Ali Helmy]

Hey Ankush,

So this basically means i can install it without burning the images to CDs,
but how do i get the system to boot from a CD that is actually an image
mounted by emulator software? I mean, so i mount image CD-1 on daemon tools,
then what? just install?

Can you please walk me through it? sorry if im rather dumb

--
A. Helmy

[Ankush Grover]

On 12/2/05, Ali Helmy  wrote:
> Hey Ankush,
>
> So this basically means i can install it without burning the images to
> CDs, but how do i get the system to boot from a CD that is actually an image
> mounted by emulator software? I mean, so i mount image CD-1 on daemon tools,
> then what? just install?
>
> Can you please walk me through it? sorry if im rather dumb
>
> --
> A. Helmy
>
> hey Mr.Helmy,

Actually I have never tried this thing with Virtual DVD-ROM.May be somebody
else can guide you regardin this.I will try to find out something related to
this.

Regards

Ankush Grover

[James Wilkinson]

Ali Helmy wrote:
> So this basically means i can install it without burning the images to CDs,
> but how do i get the system to boot from a CD that is actually an image
> mounted by emulator software? I mean, so i mount image CD-1 on daemon tools,
> then what? just install?

As has been mentioned, you'll need something like a boot CD, a boot USB
disk (as mentioned), or, in emergency, boot floppies (you need to
download these seperately: see http://www.fedorafaq.org/#floppyinstall ).

You may need to fiddle with your BIOS settings to get the system to boot
from your chosen media.

To clarify: you don't run the install from within Windows. You don't
mount the DVD image anywhere in Windows. Fedora can do that for itself.

Once you've booted, you'll find yourself answering several questions.
See http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/fedora-install-guide-en/fc4/ for the
step-by-step guide: it will show you what you will face.

At
http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/fedora-install-guide-en/fc4/ch-other-install-m...
choose "Hard Drive".
At
http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/fedora-install-guide-en/fc4/sn-installing-from...
choose the partition holding your install images, and the directory on
the partition.

So if you only have a C:\ drive in Windows, and the images are in
C:\FC4, then you'd either enter /dev/hda1 or /dev/sda1 (depending on
your hardware: choose what's available), and "/FC4".

(Tip: make the directory something that's easy to type in!)

You will, of course, need some unformatted space or an unused partition
on the hard drive into which you can install Fedora. Free space in C:\
won't do.

Hope this helps,

James.

[Ali Helmy]

Hey James,

Thanks alot for your reply, but I just wanted to ask a small question about
one thing, in the end you said *"You will, of course, need some unformatted
space or an unused partition on the hard drive into which you can install
Fedora. Free space in C:\ won't do."*
**

What does that mean? do you mean I HAVE to create a new partition? I mean i
have already around 6GBs of free memory on the C partition, and that is the
only partition I have... Do i have to re-align these 6 gigs to be a new
partition on their own? Can't linux installation just manage it and do the
work (ie: create partition, format and install) or do i have to do that
manually?
One more question, if i do have to do the above mentioned manually, any
ideas how i can do it without losing the rest of the data on the partition,
ie without losing the data other than the 6 gigs?

Thanks

--
A. Helmy

[Tim]

On Fri, 2005-12-02 at 16:33 +0200, Ali Helmy wrote:
> Thanks alot for your reply, but I just wanted to ask a small question
> about one thing, in the end you said "You will, of course, need some
> unformatted space or an unused partition on the hard drive into which
> you can install Fedora. Free space in C:\ won't do."
>
> What does that mean? do you mean I HAVE to create a new partition?

Yes.  And if your free space on that drive is already used for your
Windows C: partition, you're going to need to shrink it to leave some
unpartitioned space for Linux to use.

Linux and Windows use different file systems, they can't share the same
partition (without even more mucking around than repartitioning
involves).

Defrag the drive, this will clump all the files on the drive together.
Hopefully at the start of the drive so you can shrink the partition over
unused space on the drive.  Look for a tutorial on shrinking partitions
on the net.  It's far more detailed than I'd like to explain in and
e-mail.

[Anil Kumar Sharma]

Linux can work from with in a partition having FAT32, and swap space can as
well be a file on the same partition.
Definitely Linux will work from D:\ (fat32).
But Linux from C:\ (fat32) will depend on the capability of boot loader, you
have option of grub, lilo and wins multi-boot option among others.
Best option is to run Linux from a separate partition with native formatting
and swap on a separate dedicated partition.
There are many options to improve performance and to customize to your
needs. Google is every ones' friend.

But why ride a bicycle when U have a Ducati, except for burning the calories
within your body. C:\ Linux + Win will burn you out up to your brains along
with your calories.

In any case don't shy the why - just ask.

On 12/2/05, Ali Helmy  wrote:
> Hey James,
>
> Thanks alot for your reply, but I just wanted to ask a small question
> about one thing, in the end you said *"You will, of course, need some
> unformatted space or an unused partition on the hard drive into which you
> can install Fedora. Free space in C:\ won't do." *
> **
>
> What does that mean? do you mean I HAVE to create a new partition? I mean
> i have already around 6GBs of free memory on the C partition, and that is
> the only partition I have... Do i have to re-align these 6 gigs to be a new
> partition on their own? Can't linux installation just manage it and do the
> work (ie: create partition, format and install) or do i have to do that
> manually?
> One more question, if i do have to do the above mentioned manually, any
> ideas how i can do it without losing the rest of the data on the partition,
> ie without losing the data other than the 6 gigs?
>
> Thanks
>
> --
> A. Helmy
>
> --
> fedora-list mailing list
> [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list

--
Anil Kumar Shrama

[James Wilkinson]

Anil Kumar Sharma wrote:
> Linux can work from with in a partition having FAT32, and swap space can as
> well be a file on the same partition.
> Definitely Linux will work from D:\ (fat32).
> But Linux from C:\ (fat32) will depend on the capability of boot loader, you
> have option of grub, lilo and wins multi-boot option among others.

Have you actually tried this with Fedora? Actually putting the root
partition on FAT32? I'm very dubious that it would work.

Are you talking about creating a huge file within the FAT partition, and
creating an ext3 filesystem in the large file, or are you talking about
storing the files directly in the FAT filesystem?

As FAT32 doesn't support hardlinks, user and group ownership, device
nodes, or a bunch of other things Linux expects from it's root
filesystem.

Creating an ext3 filesystem in a single large FAT32 file works (up to
the limits of FAT32 files: I think it's 4GB off-hand), but I don't
believe Fedora supports installing to such a filesystem. I understand
some other distributions do.

Linux can read and write FAT32, no problem -- just not as its main
filesystem.

James.

[Anil Kumar Sharma]

U C this is all legacy talk, no more relevant in present day world.
  Now days One can have two 160 GB HDD at the same value of money.

Even if U try it today all your files use fat32 standard including swap in
which case U may struggle getting a contagious file.

On 12/2/05, James Wilkinson  wrote:
> Anil Kumar Sharma wrote:
> > Linux can work from with in a partition having FAT32, and swap space can
>
> as
> > well be a file on the same partition.
> > Definitely Linux will work from D:\ (fat32).
> > But Linux from C:\ (fat32) will depend on the capability of boot loader,
>
> you
> > have option of grub, lilo and wins multi-boot option among others.
>
> Have you actually tried this with Fedora? Actually putting the root
> partition on FAT32? I'm very dubious that it would work.

Yes I remember having once used some very old (1996 or 1997) flavour of
Redhat on fat, because at that time HDD space was as short as 1GB or less
and playing with partitions was an illegal game.

Are you talking about creating a huge file within the FAT partition, and
> creating an ext3 filesystem in the large file, or are you talking about
> storing the files directly in the FAT filesystem?

No.

As FAT32 doesn't support hardlinks, user and group ownership, device
> nodes, or a bunch of other things Linux expects from it's root
> filesystem.

SO U C the disadvantages.

Creating an ext3 filesystem in a single large FAT32 file works (up to
> the limits of FAT32 files: I think it's 4GB off-hand), but I don't
> believe Fedora supports installing to such a filesystem. I understand
> some other distributions do.

for FAT32 it is
4GBhttp://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/Windows/XP/all/reskit/en-us/Default.asp?url=/resources/documentation/Windows/XP/all/reskit/en-us/prkc_fil_tdrn.asp
<-- this is from horse's mouth or is it ...

Linux can read and write FAT32, no problem -- just not as its main
> filesystem.
>
> James.
>
> --
> E-mail address: james | "The US Air Force is removing harmful "greenhouse"
> @westexe.demon.co.uk  | gases from the cooling systems of intercontinental
>                      | ballistic missiles. This will minimise damage to
> the
>                      | ozone layer in the event of a nuclear holocaust."
>                      |     -- The Guardian.
>
> --
> fedora-list mailing list
> [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list

--
Anil Kumar Shrama

[James Wilkinson]

Anil Kumar Sharma wrote:
> U C this is all legacy talk, no more relevant in present day world.
>   Now days One can have two 160 GB HDD at the same value of money.
>
> Even if U try it today all your files use fat32 standard including swap in
> which case U may struggle getting a contagious file.

Hmm. I don't think "contagious" means what you think it means. Try
"contiguous".

I don't see the point of these sentences, either. Windows won't format
partitions with FAT32 beynd 32 GB, as far as I know. More to the point,
fragmentation may affect file performace, but if you're mounting a
filesystem from a large file, it doesn't have to be contiguous: both
Windows and Linux can deal with that for you.
> Yes I remember having once used some very old (1996 or 1997) flavour of
> Redhat on fat,
> because at that time HDD space was as short as 1GB or less
> and playing with partitions was an illegal game.

Ouch! Illegal? Where on earth do you live?

I remember that time, too. Playing with partitions hasn't changed that
much...

And, to be honest, I doubt it was Red Hat itself. And I doubt the code
to put / on FAT32 has made its way into Fedora.

By the way, it's customary to trim stuff like signatures. And I don't
want to be rude, but
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#writewell would seem
to apply.

James.

[Anil Kumar Sharma]

Thanks James,
First, I apologise for wrong spell check, my mistake, no excuses.
Two, it was not Redhat but some flavour (not exactly meaning that),
something before 'slackware', was it? I really cannot recall. There was real
difficulty to squeeze selection of packages along with swap size requirement
plus working space. I remember doing lot of 'defrag' to get that swap file
in place. Yes files were on / no special big file, but more probably on d:
(bcoz, c: was not to be touched) and it was lilo. AFAIR.
Three, game was important than illegal; for us partition handling was very
very difficult to get right, so we never used to even attempt - same as
illegal. This was meant to be on the lighter side, went off and rather
became heavy!
Four, I missed shifting one full line (second one) , so the missed context
of lines, again my mistake ctrl-x, ctrl-v, no excuses.
Five, We had a Guru colleague (1995~97) who led us Linux way, made it work
for us. but we had to give it up. It was in office and there, windows was
more productive; yes, in those days, the easy way out not the best and where
*.dwg files weighed in favour of win.
Last but above all, I appreciate your telling me so politely, decisively
that I have to improve; I must, and specially thank you just for that.

On 12/3/05, James Wilkinson  wrote:
> By the way, it's customary to trim stuff like signatures. And I don't
> want to be rude, but
> http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#writewell would seem
> to apply.

PS : I hope snip / trim is OK.

[James Wilkinson]

Anil Kumar Sharma wrote:
> Two, it was not Redhat but some flavour (not exactly meaning that),
> something before 'slackware', was it?

Before Slackware? There was very little out there before Slackware, and
nothing that's around now. http://lwn.net/Articles/91371/
> Last but above all, I appreciate your telling me so politely, decisively
> that I have to improve; I must, and specially thank you just for that.

and:
> PS : I hope snip / trim is OK.

Much better. Thanks!

James.

[Markku Kolkka]

Ali Helmy kirjoitti viestissään (lähetysaika perjantai, 2. 
joulukuuta 2005 16:33):
> What does that mean? do you mean I HAVE to create a new
> partition? I mean i have already around 6GBs of free memory on
> the C partition, and that is the only partition I have.

Unused space on a Windows partition is already reserved for the 
use of Windows, it's not free to be used for Linux installation.
> Do i 
> have to re-align these 6 gigs to be a new partition on their
> own?

You must shrink your Windows partition to create free, 
unpartitioned space on the disk.
> Can't linux installation just manage it and do the work 
> (ie: create partition, format and install)

Yes, after you have manually created the space necessary for 
that. Fedora installer won't resize your existing Windows 
partition.
> One more question, if i do have to do the above mentioned
> manually, any ideas how i can do it without losing the rest of
> the data on the partition, ie without losing the data other
> than the 6 gigs?

Use commercial tools like Partition Magic or Acronis Disk 
Director, or the free NTFS Resize program: 
http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/mlf/ezaz/ntfsresize.html