this is another problem i started having with the test version, and it's still happening now -- on my gateway laptop running fully-updated f11, the cooling fan keeps spinning up and down with about a 3-second period. it's really kind of annoying. occasionally, it will stop completely for a bit, then it starts oscillating all over again. thoughts?
rday --
======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA
Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry.
Web page: http://crashcourse.ca Linked In: http://www.linkedin.com/in/rpjday Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday ========================================================================
Robert P. J. Day wrote:
this is another problem i started having with the test version, and it's still happening now -- on my gateway laptop running fully-updated f11, the cooling fan keeps spinning up and down with about a 3-second period. it's really kind of annoying. occasionally, it will stop completely for a bit, then it starts oscillating all over again. thoughts?
Just a guess here, but F11 is doing more with the CPU and is causing it to exceed the thermal threshold more often which causes the fan to kick in? Have you looked at the system temperatures while this is happening?
rday
I think there is probably a physical cause. It gets too easy to blame the operating system for physical device issues. The fan speed is controlled in part by temperature sensors on the CPU and feedback from the fan circuit itself. I think all the fan speed controls are managed by motherboard parts, not by the operating system interacting with those parts.
Bob
On 07/04/2009 08:14 PM, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
this is another problem i started having with the test version, and it's still happening now -- on my gateway laptop running fully-updated f11, the cooling fan keeps spinning up and down with about a 3-second period. it's really kind of annoying. occasionally, it will stop completely for a bit, then it starts oscillating all over again. thoughts?
rday
======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA
Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry.Web page: http://crashcourse.ca Linked In: http://www.linkedin.com/in/rpjday Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday ========================================================================
On 07/05/2009 08:07 AM, Robert L Cochran wrote:
I think there is probably a physical cause. It gets too easy to blame the operating system for physical device issues. The fan speed is controlled in part by temperature sensors on the CPU and feedback from the fan circuit itself. I think all the fan speed controls are managed by motherboard parts, not by the operating system interacting with those parts.
Bob
On 07/04/2009 08:14 PM, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
this is another problem i started having with the test version, and it's still happening now -- on my gateway laptop running fully-updated f11, the cooling fan keeps spinning up and down with about a 3-second period. it's really kind of annoying. occasionally, it will stop completely for a bit, then it starts oscillating all over again. thoughts?
rday
Actually, modern notebooks (and probably most desktops) have their fan controlled by the ACPI "thermal zone" driver - strictly software. Saves the manufacturers a few cents on every motherboard.
Regards,
John
On 07/05/2009 01:09 PM, john wendel wrote:
On 07/05/2009 08:07 AM, Robert L Cochran wrote:
I think there is probably a physical cause. It gets too easy to blame the operating system for physical device issues. The fan speed is controlled in part by temperature sensors on the CPU and feedback from the fan circuit itself. I think all the fan speed controls are managed by motherboard parts, not by the operating system interacting with those parts.
Bob
On 07/04/2009 08:14 PM, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
this is another problem i started having with the test version, and it's still happening now -- on my gateway laptop running fully-updated f11, the cooling fan keeps spinning up and down with about a 3-second period. it's really kind of annoying. occasionally, it will stop completely for a bit, then it starts oscillating all over again. thoughts?
rday
Actually, modern notebooks (and probably most desktops) have their fan controlled by the ACPI "thermal zone" driver - strictly software. Saves the manufacturers a few cents on every motherboard.
Regards,
John
I'll look into this, thanks. On the other hand I've opened up enough system cases (including laptops) and cleaned more than enough dust bunnies or coffee spills to realize fan speeds can have very physical causes indeed. Don't think of the fan as "just" controlled by operating system software. There is usually a physical reason why the speed varies and that ought to be the first thing to check before suspecting the operating system.
Bob
On Sun, 5 Jul 2009, Robert L Cochran wrote:
... snip ...
I'll look into this, thanks. On the other hand I've opened up enough system cases (including laptops) and cleaned more than enough dust bunnies or coffee spills to realize fan speeds can have very physical causes indeed. Don't think of the fan as "just" controlled by operating system software. There is usually a physical reason why the speed varies and that ought to be the first thing to check before suspecting the operating system.
this behaviour has been there since day one of installing f11 beta on this laptop, when it was new out of the box.
rday --
======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA
Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry.
Web page: http://crashcourse.ca Linked In: http://www.linkedin.com/in/rpjday Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday ========================================================================
"...new out of the box" does not mean "it works perfectly". And I don't see postings on this list from others with fan speed issues which would tend to indicate a repeatable software issue.
Bob
On 07/05/2009 02:21 PM, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
On Sun, 5 Jul 2009, Robert L Cochran wrote:
... snip ...
I'll look into this, thanks. On the other hand I've opened up enough system cases (including laptops) and cleaned more than enough dust bunnies or coffee spills to realize fan speeds can have very physical causes indeed. Don't think of the fan as "just" controlled by operating system software. There is usually a physical reason why the speed varies and that ought to be the first thing to check before suspecting the operating system.
this behaviour has been there since day one of installing f11 beta on this laptop, when it was new out of the box.
rday
======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA
Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry.Web page: http://crashcourse.ca Linked In: http://www.linkedin.com/in/rpjday Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday ========================================================================
Robert L Cochran wrote:
"...new out of the box" does not mean "it works perfectly". And I don't see postings on this list from others with fan speed issues which would tend to indicate a repeatable software issue.
Bob
On 07/05/2009 02:21 PM, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
On Sun, 5 Jul 2009, Robert L Cochran wrote:
... snip ...
I'll look into this, thanks. On the other hand I've opened up enough system cases (including laptops) and cleaned more than enough dust bunnies or coffee spills to realize fan speeds can have very physical causes indeed. Don't think of the fan as "just" controlled by operating system software. There is usually a physical reason why the speed varies and that ought to be the first thing to check before suspecting the operating system.
this behaviour has been there since day one of installing f11 beta on this laptop, when it was new out of the box.
rday
======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA
Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry.Web page: http://crashcourse.ca Linked In: http://www.linkedin.com/in/rpjday Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday ========================================================================
I've noticed some strange fan behavior on my laptop after upgrading to Fedora 11. Sometimes right after Fedora loads and I log in the fan is running where it is audible, but the temperature sensors show it's cold. After a couple minutes it settles down to normal where I only hear the fan if things get warm from heavy CPU or wireless use. I've also noticed that sometimes the Gnome battery indicator stays full when I'm running on battery. So there are more than a couple hardware glitches.
Robert L Cochran wrote:
On 07/05/2009 01:09 PM, john wendel wrote:
On 07/05/2009 08:07 AM, Robert L Cochran wrote:
I think there is probably a physical cause. It gets too easy to blame the operating system for physical device issues. The fan speed is controlled in part by temperature sensors on the CPU and feedback from the fan circuit itself. I think all the fan speed controls are managed by motherboard parts, not by the operating system interacting with those parts.
Bob
On 07/04/2009 08:14 PM, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
this is another problem i started having with the test version, and it's still happening now -- on my gateway laptop running fully-updated f11, the cooling fan keeps spinning up and down with about a 3-second period. it's really kind of annoying. occasionally, it will stop completely for a bit, then it starts oscillating all over again. thoughts?
rday
Actually, modern notebooks (and probably most desktops) have their fan controlled by the ACPI "thermal zone" driver - strictly software. Saves the manufacturers a few cents on every motherboard.
Regards,
John
I'll look into this, thanks. On the other hand I've opened up enough system cases (including laptops) and cleaned more than enough dust bunnies or coffee spills to realize fan speeds can have very physical causes indeed. Don't think of the fan as "just" controlled by operating system software. There is usually a physical reason why the speed varies and that ought to be the first thing to check before suspecting the operating system.
Bob
My thoughts are that it is a physical problem, possibly clogged processor cooling fins. I once removed the heat sink (I DO NOT RECOMMEND THIS), and reapplied new heat-conducting goo and reseated the heatsink.
I'd had some fan issues in the past but most with boxes. The noise disappeared after blowing out inside the boxes. On another ocassion a rubber band (used to hold power cables broke && a little piece was tangle inside the fan, once removed the noise stopped.
If the laptop is still under warranty don't open it. It might void the warranty. Call the support (chat) && explain them the problem. They'll work with you and if it's a failing part they'll send you a replacement.
Regards,
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-----Original Message----- From: cochranb@speakeasy.net Sent: Sun, 05 Jul 2009 14:40:12 -0400 To: fedora-list@redhat.com Subject: Re: any thoughts on why cooling fan keeps spinning up and down?
"...new out of the box" does not mean "it works perfectly". And I don't see postings on this list from others with fan speed issues which would tend to indicate a repeatable software issue.
Bob
On 07/05/2009 02:21 PM, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
On Sun, 5 Jul 2009, Robert L Cochran wrote:
... snip ...
I'll look into this, thanks. On the other hand I've opened up enough system cases (including laptops) and cleaned more than enough dust bunnies or coffee spills to realize fan speeds can have very physical causes indeed. Don't think of the fan as "just" controlled by operating system software. There is usually a physical reason why the speed varies and that ought to be the first thing to check before suspecting the operating system.
this behaviour has been there since day one of installing f11 beta on this laptop, when it was new out of the box.
rday
======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA
Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry.Web page: http://crashcourse.ca Linked In: http://www.linkedin.com/in/rpjday Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday ========================================================================
-- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
____________________________________________________________ FREE 3D MARINE AQUARIUM SCREENSAVER - Watch dolphins, sharks & orcas on your desktop! Check it out at http://www.inbox.com/marineaquarium
On 07/05/2009 02:21 PM, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
On Sun, 5 Jul 2009, Robert L Cochran wrote:
... snip ...
I'll look into this, thanks. On the other hand I've opened up enough system cases (including laptops) and cleaned more than enough dust bunnies or coffee spills to realize fan speeds can have very physical causes indeed. Don't think of the fan as "just" controlled by operating system software. There is usually a physical reason why the speed varies and that ought to be the first thing to check before suspecting the operating system.
this behaviour has been there since day one of installing f11 beta on this laptop, when it was new out of the box.
rday
======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA
Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry.Web page:
Linked In:
http://www.linkedin.com/in/rpjday
Twitter:
========================================================================
I've noticed some strange fan behavior on my laptop after upgrading to Fedora 11. Sometimes right after Fedora loads and I log in the fan is running where it is audible, but the temperature sensors show it's cold. After a couple minutes it settles down to normal where I only hear the fan if things get warm from heavy CPU or wireless use. I've also noticed that sometimes the Gnome battery indicator stays full when I'm running on battery. So there are more than a couple hardware glitches.
-- Jason Turning
-- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
hm, I think I've actually noticed the same thing as jason on my hp pavillion laptop-- both with the fan (being loud) and the battery indicator since upgrading to F11
On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 12:33 AM, Kevin J. Cummings < cummings@kjchome.homeip.net> wrote:
Robert P. J. Day wrote:
this is another problem i started having with the test version, and it's still happening now -- on my gateway laptop running fully-updated f11, the cooling fan keeps spinning up and down with about a 3-second period. it's really kind of annoying. occasionally, it will stop completely for a bit, then it starts oscillating all over again. thoughts?
Just a guess here, but F11 is doing more with the CPU and is causing it to exceed the thermal threshold more often which causes the fan to kick in? Have you looked at the system temperatures while this is happening?
I noticed this here too, on a desktop, Sun w1100z with 2.0Ghz AMD Opteron.
The system is totally idle, and sometimes fan speed jumps up and down. No keyboard activity, nothing, just the machine being idle.
It seems to me that sudden spikes in cpu activity (ie, calling the screen saver -still uses less than 10% CPU), causes some algorithm to increase fan speed.And then after the initial spike in cpu activity, it goes back to normal, so the fan speed is lowered as well.
It *sounds* to me like "pre-emptive" fan enabling. As if a sudden spike in cpu activity triggers the bios fan controls. Maybe this is related to AMD´s PowerNow stuff?
FC
On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 3:40 PM, Robert L Cochran cochranb@speakeasy.netwrote:
"...new out of the box" does not mean "it works perfectly". And I don't see postings on this list from others with fan speed issues which would tend to indicate a repeatable software issue.
Bob
Don´t jump to conclusions Bob, I just did.
FC
On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 4:07 PM, Leslie Satenstein < leslie.satenstein@gmail.com> wrote:
My thoughts are that it is a physical problem, possibly clogged processor
cooling fins. I once removed the heat sink (I DO NOT RECOMMEND THIS), and reapplied new heat-conducting goo and reseated the heatsink.
The same system does NOT exhibir the fan up-and-down when booted with XP64, but does with F11...
I think it might be related to AMD´s Powernow (is it supported in Linux?) where the CPU adapts power consumption due to cpu load, and interaction with the BIOS.
The Sun w1100z for instance once had a BIOS bug that made it loud during the whole boot process and the internal fans (not CPU fans but case fans) only slowed after WinXP fully booted.. A BIOS update from Sun Micro fixed it.
So I´d GUESS there´s some relation between bios, temperature sensors (CPU and CASE internal temp sensors), and maybe AMD powernow - cpu load as well. It´d be interesting for me to know how the Linux kernel interacts with all this...
FC
On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 7:53 PM, Fernando Cassia fcassia@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 4:07 PM, Leslie Satenstein < leslie.satenstein@gmail.com> wrote:
My thoughts are that it is a physical problem, possibly clogged
processor cooling fins. I once removed the heat sink (I DO NOT RECOMMEND THIS), and reapplied new heat-conducting goo and reseated the heatsink.
The same system does NOT exhibir the fan up-and-down when booted with XP64, but does with F11...
I think it might be related to AMD´s Powernow (is it supported in Linux?) where the CPU adapts power consumption due to cpu load, and interaction with the BIOS.
The Sun w1100z for instance once had a BIOS bug that made it loud during the whole boot process and the internal fans (not CPU fans but case fans) only slowed after WinXP fully booted.. A BIOS update from Sun Micro fixed it.
So I´d GUESS there´s some relation between bios, temperature sensors (CPU and CASE internal temp sensors), and maybe AMD powernow - cpu load as well. It´d be interesting for me to know how the Linux kernel interacts with all this...
Shooting in the dark here... and this tech note doesn´t show any dates...
http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/servers/linux/powernow-notes.html
In any case, I see here https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/packages/name/cpuspeed#Fedora11 that CPUspeed is included. I must check next time I boot the box if it´s installed and enabled, and if there´s anything which can be tweaked.
FC
-
David Lam -
Ed Landaveri -
Fernando Cassia -
Jason Turning -
John Wendel -
Kevin Cummings -
Leslie -
Robert L Cochran -
Robert P. J. Day