Re: FC1 -> FC2 Update: DISASTER!!!

[Antti Aspinen]

I think that your problem is FC1, not FC2. See FC1 stores a lot of
configuration files that aren't usable by FC2. I upgraded FC1 to FC2
test3 and it went fine.(However upgraded FC2 didn't show the new gnome
login screen and things like that...)

However I don't usually upgrade Linuxes and this is just one example why
not. I make allways a clean installation. I suggest to you when you
install next time linux making a /home partition. When you have it your
personal stuff will remain even if you format your / (root) and install
new linux to it.

There is so much diffrence on FC1 and FC2 that making clean installation
supposed to be only option at least my mind.

-Antti-

FC1 -> FC2 Update: DISASTER!!!

[Michael P. Soulier]

On 04/06/04 Antti Aspinen said:

>  However I don't usually upgrade Linuxes and this is just one
> example why
>  not. I make allways a clean installation. I suggest to you when you 
I would just point out that Debian upgrades just fine. I think that
Fedora should strive to meet that standard. 

Mike

-- 
Michael P. Soulier <msoulier(a)digitaltorque.ca&gt;
The major advances in civilization are processes that all but wreck the
societies in which they occur.
-- Albert North Whitehead

FC1 -> FC2 Update: DISASTER!!!

[Craig White]

On Fri, 2004-06-04 at 18:55, Michael P. Soulier wrote:
>  On 04/06/04 Antti Aspinen said:
>  
>  > However I don't usually upgrade Linuxes and this is just one example why
>  > not. I make allways a clean installation. I suggest to you when you
>  
>  I would just point out that Debian upgrades just fine. I think that
>  Fedora should strive to meet that standard.  
----
In my opinion, it definitely does. When you change sources and apt-get
dist upgrade on Debian, similar things happen.

Craig

FC1 -> FC2 Update: DISASTER!!!

[Brant Katkansky]

On Sat, Jun 05, 2004 at 12:18:43AM -0700, Craig White wrote:
>  On Fri, 2004-06-04 at 18:55, Michael P. Soulier wrote:
>  > On 04/06/04 Antti Aspinen said:
>  > 
>  > > However I don't usually upgrade Linuxes and this is just one example why
>  > > not. I make allways a clean installation. I suggest to you when you
>  > 
>  > I would just point out that Debian upgrades just fine. I think that
>  > Fedora should strive to meet that standard. 
>  ----
>  In my opinion, it definitely does. When you change sources and apt-get
>  dist upgrade on Debian, similar things happen. 
Just another data point:  My primary system was upgraded from FC1 to FC2
last weekend, and although I have since rolled back to FC1, the upgrade
went very weel (the rollback was due to some issues probably unrelated
to the upgrade).

I have had very good results with upgrades - this particular machine was
originally installed with 8.0 and was upgraded through every RH and
major FC release without incident.  Other machines have upgrade histories
back to RH 6.x.

That being said, I do like to do full OS installs rather than upgrades
when the machine being updated has little or no local customization 
(e.g. it's a network client, and the customization is simple or 
resides elsewhere).

One large disclaimer on upgrades though:  I *never* do one if I cannot
roll it back to the previous known good release.  While the process that
I use it to complicated to detail in *this* email, it involves duplicating
filesystems to an alternate LVM volume group and performing the upgrade
on the copy, leaving the original installation untouched - but it requires
giving some thought to upgrade issues at the time of the original install
as well as good software and volume management practices, issues which
are often overlooked on desktop installations.  Using this technique,
rolling back to the previous release is simple.  If there's any interest, 
I'd be happy to publish a HOWTO detailing the technique (which works well 
for fresh installs too, BTW, as the old /etc et al can be mounted from
the old install and configurations copied or merged).

Experience has also taught me that mixing software management techniques
is something to be generally avoided, and managed carefully when it can't.
In other words, I use rpm/apt-get/yum to manage RPM packages from selected
trusted sources, and generally avoid building from source when I can.  When
building from source is unavoidable, care is taken to not create conflicts -
source-build software is installed outside the RPM directory space in
/usr/local or /opt.  This approach has served me well, but of course
YMMV.

It's worth pointing out that these issues are not releated to Fedora
per se, nor even specific to Linux.  Even the mighty M$ is not immune
to upgrade issues arising from poor software management, etc.  Personally,
I always do a fresh install when dealing with M$ products.  Too much
legacy cruft and potential for conflicts are left behind during upgrades.

FC1 -> FC2 Update: DISASTER!!!

[Timothy Murphy]

Brant Katkansky wrote:

>  rolling back to the previous release is simple.  If there's any
> interest,
>  I'd be happy to publish a HOWTO detailing the technique (which works well
>  for fresh installs too, BTW, as the old /etc et al can be mounted from
>  the old install and configurations copied or merged). 
Can you "roll back" from FC2 to FC1?
I'd certainly be interested to know how you can do it.

-- 
Timothy Murphy  
e-mail (<80k only): tim /at/ birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie
tel: [phone]
s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland

FC1 -> FC2 Update: DISASTER!!!

[Brant Katkansky]

On Sat, Jun 05, 2004 at 09:40:10PM +0100, Timothy Murphy wrote:
>  Brant Katkansky wrote:
>  
>  > rolling back to the previous release is simple.  If there's any interest,
>  > I'd be happy to publish a HOWTO detailing the technique (which works well
>  > for fresh installs too, BTW, as the old /etc et al can be mounted from
>  > the old install and configurations copied or merged).
>  
>  Can you "roll back" from FC2 to FC1?
>  I'd certainly be interested to know how you can do it. 
Without having good backupes, doing a fresh install or performing some advance 
preparations, not that I am aware of.

In a nutshell, the process that I use is this: the operating system and
user data is kept on separate LVM volume groups.  Prior to the FC2 upgrade,
I created a new LVM volume group for FC2, and cloned all of the OS 
logical volumes to it (/boot is shared between both environments).  Make a 
copy of the FC1 kernel (the FC2 upgrade will remove it), create a new initrd 
for the FC2 environment, update /etc/fstab to reflect the new device names
(possibly commenting out any user data filesystems), add entries to 
/boot/grub/grub.conf to reflect kernel and initrd location.  Test 
to ensure that you can boot into both environments.  Perform the upgrade on 
the new FC2 volume group.

To roll back, simply boot back into the old volume group.  Once the upgrade 
has been proven, the old volume group can be reclaimed and used for the next 
upgrade.

Performing an OS upgrade (any OS) is necessarily a very dangerous operation 
and should not be attempted without a plan for rollback should the upgrade
go south.  Not much help if you've already gone and done the upgrade without
these preparations, I'm afraid.

FC1 -> FC2 Update: DISASTER!!!

[Paul F. Johnson]

Hi,

>  > However I don't usually upgrade Linuxes and this is just one
> example why
>  > not. I make allways a clean installation. I suggest to you when you
>  
>  I would just point out that Debian upgrades just fine. I think that
>  Fedora should strive to meet that standard.  
Of course Debian upgrades fine. I mean, it's only about a year behind
every other distro under the sun....

IMO Debian represents the Win98 of the Linux distros. Sure, it's stable,
but it's so far behind the curve, it's really of not much use.

TTFN

Paul 
-- 
"Your lives are in the hands of men no smarter than you or I, many of
them incompetent boobs. I know this because I worked alongside them,
gone bowling with them, watched them pass me over for promotions time
and again. And I say ... This stinks!" - Homer Simpson