wine-mono is not welcome

[Dario Lesca]

How to use wine without get mono (44Mb of wine-mono)?

Today I check update and I see this:

>  Installing for dependencies:
>   wine-filesystem  noarch 1.5.8-1.fc17 updates 68 k
>   wine-mono        noarch 0.0.4-7.fc17 updates 44 M 
I do not want MONO!
I do not use MONO (the MS's trojan horse) on my PCs and Servers, then,
I'm sorry: while this dependence exist I cannot update Wine.

(IMHO: It's time to stop this drift to MS, (UEFI, mono, ecc.), it's time
to live without MS. It's possible: just want it and do it.)

How to, and with who I can work, eliminate this dependency?

Temporarily I have update my f17 with this command:

%  sudo yum update --exclude wine\* --skip-broken

There is some other suggestions rather than "yum remove wine" to solve
this issue ?

Many thanks

-- 
Dario Lesca - sip:[e-mail]
(Inviato dal mio Fedora Linux)

[James Wilkinson]

Michael Cronenworth wrote:
>  Mono will be automatically downloaded by wine if you uninstall
> wine-mono
>  as stated in my previous reply to the OP. You cannot avoid having Mono
>  on your system with Wine. 
I’m sorry, I don’t think you are correct. A quick Google gave me
http://wiki.winehq.org/Mono, which says:
    I’m expecting that Wine 1.5.6 will install Wine Mono automatically
    as needed. It will search for the MSI in the following locations:

        * The Unix directory stored in the “MonoCabDir” value at
          HKCU\Software\Wine\Dotnet.
        * /usr/share/wine/mono, or possibly some substitution for /usr
          if Wine was installed to a different location.
        * wine_build_directory/../mono, if Wine is being run from
          a build tree.

        * Download from http://source.winehq.org/winemono.php?v=0.0.4

Note that “as needed”. If you don’t run any .NET applications, then this
document implies that yes, it is quite possible not to have Mono on your
system with Wine.

So I tried it. I installed wine-core.i686, wine-wow.i686, and ran the
Windows Firefox installer. It prompted me:
    Wine cannot find a Mono package which is needed for .NET
    applications to work correctly. Wine can automatically download and
    install it for you.

    Note: it is recommended to use your distribution’s packages instead.
    See http://wiki.winehq.org/Mono for detail
and gave me “Cancel” and “Install” buttons.

Clicking “Cancel” got me to a similar Gecko prompt. Clicking Cancel to
that started the Firefox installer (instantly: no pauses for downloads),
and if it *has* downloaded Mono, I’ve no idea where it put it.

James.

-- 
E-mail:     james@ | As Tim switched off the engine, opened the driver’s door,
aprilcottage.co.uk | undid his seat belt and fell out of the tree, he decided
                   | that perhaps he didn’t have the makings of the best
                   | minicab driver.  -- “I’m Sorry, I Haven’t A Clue”, BBC R4

[Michael Cronenworth]

It is important to read other posts in the thread prior to posting.

James Wilkinson wrote:
>  In other words, you should be able to remove just the wine package,
> keep
>  everything else, and yum won’t pull in wine-mono. 
Mono will be automatically downloaded by wine if you uninstall wine-mono
as stated in my previous reply to the OP. You cannot avoid having Mono
on your system with Wine.

Again, any complaints should be forwarded to the Wine mailing list.

http://www.winehq.org/mailman/listinfo/wine-users

[James Wilkinson]

Dario Lesca wrote:
>  How to use wine without get mono (44Mb of wine-mono)? 
$ repoquery --whatrequires wine-mono
wine-0:1.5.8-1.fc17.i686
wine-0:1.5.8-1.fc17.x86_64

So the only packages in the repo that require wine-mono are the “wine”
packages themselves.

But yum info wine says:
    In Fedora wine is a meta-package which will install everything
    needed for wine to work smoothly. Smaller setups can be achieved by
    installing some of the wine-* sub packages.

In other words, you should be able to remove just the wine package, keep
everything else, and yum won’t pull in wine-mono.

Hope this helps,

James.

-- 
E-mail:     james@ | Just remember: 1 virus         3 viriii
aprilcottage.co.uk |                2 virii         4 viriv
                   |     -- Matt S Trout

[Ian Malone]

On 11 July 2012 12:24, Fernando Cassia <fcassia(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>  On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 7:48 AM, Mateusz Marzantowicz
>  <mmarzantowicz(a)osdf.com.pl&gt; wrote:
> > What is the difference and what is wrong in being cross-platform?
>
>  There is nothing wrong with being cross-platform.
>  You must have misread, or misunderstood what I tried to say.
>
>  I said that WINE is useful for running Windows apps that might not be
>  available on Linux.
>
>  I also said that WINE serves that niche, but doesn´t try to "infect"
>  Linux apps (ie Mono hooks in Gnome).
>  
I think you keep misunderstanding the provision of language bindings.
This is a bit like saying Python or Perl are trying to infect gnome
because they have bindings.

Major mono apps in Gnome:
F-spot - deprecated for Shotwell.
Tomboy - gone
Beagle - dead

Mono provision in Wine is a different matter altogether, that's using
Mono (open source) to provide a replacement .Net (closed source)
runtime for windows applications as part of the functionality of Wine.
There you may as well say their replacements for MFC are trying to
infect linux. MS may well have wanted to push Mono in an attempt to
gain a bit of control over the Linux sector, but if they did then that
attempt failed several years ago.

-- 
imalone
http://ibmalone.blogspot.co.uk

[Gabriele Trombini]

Inviato da iPhone

Il giorno 11/lug/2012, alle ore 16:20, Dario Lesca <d.lesca(a)solinos.it&gt; ha scritto:

>  Il giorno mer, 11/07/2012 alle 09.10 -0500, Richard Shaw ha scritto:
> > No, --orphans only lists packages that are not found in an active
> > repository. Since the old wine dependencies are in the repositories
> > they will not be listed. You need --leaves as I previously mentioned.
>  
>  Ok, thanks to all.
>  
> > 
>  -- 
>  Dario Lesca - sip:[e-mail]
>  (Inviato dal mio Fedora Linux)
>  
>  -- 
>  users mailing list
>  users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
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>  Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
>  Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org

[Dario Lesca]

Il giorno mer, 11/07/2012 alle 09.10 -0500, Richard Shaw ha scritto:
>  No, --orphans only lists packages that are not found in an active
>  repository. Since the old wine dependencies are in the repositories
>  they will not be listed. You need --leaves as I previously mentioned. 
Ok, thanks to all.

>   
-- 
Dario Lesca - sip:[e-mail]
(Inviato dal mio Fedora Linux)

[Richard Shaw]

On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 9:08 AM, Mateusz Marzantowicz
<mmarzantowicz(a)osdf.com.pl&gt; wrote:
>  To see what packages are left on your system you can type:
>  package-cleanup --orphans. I think you can combine this command with
>  yum: yum remove $(  package-cleanup --orphans  ). There is first line of
>  output from package-cleanup which will cause some errors but you can
>  ignore them. 
No, --orphans only lists packages that are not found in an active
repository. Since the old wine dependencies are in the repositories
they will not be listed. You need --leaves as I previously mentioned.

Thanks,
Richard

[Mateusz Marzantowicz]

On 11.07.2012 14:24, Dario Lesca wrote:
>  Il giorno mer, 11/07/2012 alle 12.08 +0200, Mateusz Marzantowicz ha
>  scritto:
>
> > Try to be more pragmatic not religious and hypocritical when talking
> > about software. Why are you using Wine in the first place if you hate M$
> > trojans so much? Maybe to emulate M$ trojan environment to run evil
> > Windows apps? So you condemn Mono but have no problem in running other
> > Windows software?
>  Thanks Mateusz for your correct reply to my "hypocritical" question.
>
>  In fact I do not use wine, is a package that I installed but never used.
>
>  Lately I've had no need to run MS apps with wine, and often times I've
>  tried this, the MS apps do not working properly.
>
>  My problem comes from the fact that I had inserted in yum.conf
>  "exclude=*mono*", and today the yum update does not work anymore.
>
>  So, as you suggest, the solution for me is very simple: "yum remove
>  wine".
>
>  The new question now is: how to remove also all wine dependence (some a
>  lot of i386 library)? there is a yum's flags or options for do this?
>
>  Thanks and sorry if I gave the impression to want start a religion's
>  war.
>
>  Regards 
>  
I meant no offense.

I just misunderstood the "troian horse" part of your post. Personally I
don't consider authorized system package to be a troian horse.

To see what packages are left on your system you can type:
package-cleanup --orphans. I think you can combine this command with
yum: yum remove $(  package-cleanup --orphans  ). There is first line of
output from package-cleanup which will cause some errors but you can
ignore them.


Mateusz Marzantowicz

[Michael Cronenworth]

Dario Lesca wrote:
>  How to, and with who I can work, eliminate this dependency? 
Your opinions should be brought up on the wine mailing lists. This is
not the appropriate place to discuss this.

Even if you do not install wine-mono, wine will attempt to download a
copy from the Internet similar to wine-gecko.

[Richard Shaw]

On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 7:24 AM, Dario Lesca <d.lesca(a)solinos.it&gt; wrote:
>  The new question now is: how to remove also all wine dependence (some
> a
>  lot of i386 library)? there is a yum's flags or options for do this? 
There's no "good" answer here, but in the yum-utils package there is
package-cleanup which has many options but I think the one you're
looking for is

package-cleanup --leaves

This will list all packages that are not required by any other
package. Be careful though... You may not want to remove EVERYTHING
that it finds, but it should find all the i686 packages you don't
need.

Richard

[Dario Lesca]

Il giorno mer, 11/07/2012 alle 12.08 +0200, Mateusz Marzantowicz ha
scritto:

>  Try to be more pragmatic not religious and hypocritical when talking
>  about software. Why are you using Wine in the first place if you hate M$
>  trojans so much? Maybe to emulate M$ trojan environment to run evil
>  Windows apps? So you condemn Mono but have no problem in running other
>  Windows software? 
Thanks Mateusz for your correct reply to my "hypocritical" question.

In fact I do not use wine, is a package that I installed but never used.

Lately I've had no need to run MS apps with wine, and often times I've
tried this, the MS apps do not working properly.

My problem comes from the fact that I had inserted in yum.conf
"exclude=*mono*", and today the yum update does not work anymore.

So, as you suggest, the solution for me is very simple: "yum remove
wine".

The new question now is: how to remove also all wine dependence (some a
lot of i386 library)? there is a yum's flags or options for do this?

Thanks and sorry if I gave the impression to want start a religion's
war.

Regards 

-- 
Dario Lesca - sip:[e-mail]
(Inviato dal mio Fedora Linux)

[Mateusz Marzantowicz]

On 11.07.2012 13:24, Fernando Cassia wrote:
>  On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 7:48 AM, Mateusz Marzantowicz
>  <mmarzantowicz(a)osdf.com.pl&gt; wrote:
> > What is the difference and what is wrong in being cross-platform?
>  There is nothing wrong with being cross-platform.
>  You must have misread, or misunderstood what I tried to say.
>
>  I said that WINE is useful for running Windows apps that might not be
>  available on Linux.
>
>  I also said that WINE serves that niche, but doesn´t try to "infect"
>  Linux apps (ie Mono hooks in Gnome).
>
>  FC 
Could you please explain what do you mean by: "infecting" Linux apps? Do
you refer to using C# for programming? If so, what is wrong in that?
Couldn't developers choose the language they want? Are we saying that C#
is bad only because it was designed by Microsoft? This way any other
language can be blamed because of something. What real programming
problem is solved by going into this language discrimination? Can I say
that Java is infecting Linux apps because it's now influenced by Oracle?


Mateusz Marzantowicz

[Fernando Cassia]

On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 7:48 AM, Mateusz Marzantowicz
<mmarzantowicz(a)osdf.com.pl&gt; wrote:
>  What is the difference and what is wrong in being cross-platform?
There is nothing wrong with being cross-platform.
You must have misread, or misunderstood what I tried to say.

I said that WINE is useful for running Windows apps that might not be
available on Linux.

I also said that WINE serves that niche, but doesn´t try to "infect"
Linux apps (ie Mono hooks in Gnome).

FC

[Mateusz Marzantowicz]

On 11.07.2012 12:18, Fernando Cassia wrote:
>  On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 7:08 AM, Mateusz Marzantowicz
>  <mmarzantowicz(a)osdf.com.pl&gt; wrote:
> > So you condemn Mono but have no problem in running other
> > Windows software?
>  At least WINE is used to run Windows apps, it doesn´t claim to be an
>  independent framework to create and run cross-platform apps following
>  a MSFT spec...
>
>  FC 
What is the difference and what is wrong in being cross-platform? Java,
GTK+ and Qt also claim to be cross-platform but no one seems to raise
that against them.

Some people pretend to be great warriors of software purity but lack
basic consistency in their war.


Mateusz Marzantowicz

[Fernando Cassia]

On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 7:08 AM, Mateusz Marzantowicz
<mmarzantowicz(a)osdf.com.pl&gt; wrote:
>  So you condemn Mono but have no problem in running other
>  Windows software? 
At least WINE is used to run Windows apps, it doesn´t claim to be an
independent framework to create and run cross-platform apps following
a MSFT spec...

FC

[Reindl Harald]

Am 11.07.2012 12:08, schrieb Mateusz Marzantowicz:
>  On 11.07.2012 11:57, Dario Lesca wrote:
> > How to use wine without get mono (44Mb of wine-mono)?
> >
> > Today I check update and I see this:
> >
> >> Installing for dependencies:
> >>  wine-filesystem  noarch 1.5.8-1.fc17 updates 68 k
> >>  wine-mono        noarch 0.0.4-7.fc17 updates 44 M
> > I do not want MONO!
> > I do not use MONO (the MS's trojan horse) on my PCs and Servers, then,
> > I'm sorry: while this dependence exist I cannot update Wine.
> >
>  Try to be more pragmatic not religious and hypocritical when talking
>  about software. Why are you using Wine in the first place if you hate M$
>  trojans so much? Maybe to emulate M$ trojan environment to run evil
>  Windows apps? So you condemn Mono but have no problem in running other
>  Windows software? 
that is NOT the point

look at how large mono with it deps is!
there are people trying to hold there systems tiny

/dev/md1       ext4       30G    7,0G   23G   24% /

[Mateusz Marzantowicz]

On 11.07.2012 11:57, Dario Lesca wrote:
>  How to use wine without get mono (44Mb of wine-mono)?
>
>  Today I check update and I see this:
>
> > Installing for dependencies:
> >  wine-filesystem  noarch 1.5.8-1.fc17 updates 68 k
> >  wine-mono        noarch 0.0.4-7.fc17 updates 44 M
>  I do not want MONO!
>  I do not use MONO (the MS's trojan horse) on my PCs and Servers, then,
>  I'm sorry: while this dependence exist I cannot update Wine.
>  
Try to be more pragmatic not religious and hypocritical when talking
about software. Why are you using Wine in the first place if you hate M$
trojans so much? Maybe to emulate M$ trojan environment to run evil
Windows apps? So you condemn Mono but have no problem in running other
Windows software?


Mateusz Marzantowicz