Hi,
I have a strange issue after upgrading a laptop (Dell XPS 13, 2013 edition). That is that I am connected (whether through WiFi or ethernet cable) to a university network which claims after the upgrade that the laptop is no longer registered. I went through the registration process again through the browser (and was told: why are you registering this machine again, it is registered, simply restart the network/reboot) but the problem does not go away. I upgraded a desktop on the same ethernet switch and this problem did not go show up there (I am using that to write this email).
I should mention that the network on this upgraded laptop works fine when I take the laptop home and connect.
So what could be the problem? I have not had such an issue with installations and upgrades for 40.5 versions of Fedora (the 0.5 is for RH9 that I think I used mid-2003 to late 2003 before Fedora Core 1). How do I troubleshoot this?
Many thanks in advance for any suggestions, and best wishes, Ranjan
On 5/23/24 3:32 PM, Ranjan Maitra via users wrote:
I have a strange issue after upgrading a laptop (Dell XPS 13, 2013 edition). That is that I am connected (whether through WiFi or ethernet cable) to a university network which claims after the upgrade that the laptop is no longer registered. I went through the registration process again through the browser (and was told: why are you registering this machine again, it is registered, simply restart the network/reboot) but the problem does not go away. I upgraded a desktop on the same ethernet switch and this problem did not go show up there (I am using that to write this email).
What are they using to identify the computer? What is happening with the networking that isn't working? No DHCP response, no network traffic, etc.
Thanks, Sam!
On Thu May23'24 03:42:32PM, Samuel Sieb wrote:
From: Samuel Sieb samuel@sieb.net Date: Thu, 23 May 2024 15:42:32 -0700 To: users@lists.fedoraproject.org Reply-To: Community support for Fedora users users@lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: F40: strange network issue after upgrade of laptop from F39
On 5/23/24 3:32 PM, Ranjan Maitra via users wrote:
I have a strange issue after upgrading a laptop (Dell XPS 13, 2013 edition). That is that I am connected (whether through WiFi or ethernet cable) to a university network which claims after the upgrade that the laptop is no longer registered. I went through the registration process again through the browser (and was told: why are you registering this machine again, it is registered, simply restart the network/reboot) but the problem does not go away. I upgraded a desktop on the same ethernet switch and this problem did not go show up there (I am using that to write this email).
What are they using to identify the computer?
I don't know the answer to this question. But in general, this setup is, I think, fairly common in universities. Every machine is given an IP address (I think) if and only if it is registered (either as a guest, or as an employee/student).
What is happening with the networking that isn't working? No DHCP response, no network traffic, etc.
I am able to connect to WiFi (or ethernet). I get "Open Network Login page" and am then taken to the page which is what is used to register the machine. I register (or try to) as above, but this problem does not go away upon restarting the network (or rebooting the computer).
Sorry I am not sure I am answering the question here. Please let me know what I can do to find the answers to your questions.
Many thanks again and best wishes, Ranjan
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On Thu, May 23, 2024 at 6:33 PM Ranjan Maitra via users users@lists.fedoraproject.org wrote:
[...] I am connected (whether through WiFi or ethernet cable) to a university network which claims after the upgrade that the laptop is no longer registered. I went through the registration process again through the browser (and was told: why are you registering this machine again, it is registered, simply restart the network/reboot) but the problem does not go away. I upgraded a desktop on the same ethernet switch and this problem did not go show up there (I am using that to write this email).
I should mention that the network on this upgraded laptop works fine when I take the laptop home and connect.
So what could be the problem? I have not had such an issue with installations and upgrades for 40.5 versions of Fedora (the 0.5 is for RH9 that I think I used mid-2003 to late 2003 before Fedora Core 1). How do I troubleshoot this?
Does the University use a Captive Portal?
Jeff
Thanks, Jeff!
On Thu May23'24 08:13:00PM, Jeffrey Walton wrote:
From: Jeffrey Walton noloader@gmail.com Date: Thu, 23 May 2024 20:13:00 -0400 To: Community support for Fedora users users@lists.fedoraproject.org CC: Ranjan Maitra mlmaitra@gmx.com Reply-To: noloader@gmail.com, Community support for Fedora users users@lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: F40: strange network issue after upgrade of laptop from F39
On Thu, May 23, 2024 at 6:33 PM Ranjan Maitra via users users@lists.fedoraproject.org wrote:
[...] I am connected (whether through WiFi or ethernet cable) to a university network which claims after the upgrade that the laptop is no longer registered. I went through the registration process again through the browser (and was told: why are you registering this machine again, it is registered, simply restart the network/reboot) but the problem does not go away. I upgraded a desktop on the same ethernet switch and this problem did not go show up there (I am using that to write this email).
I should mention that the network on this upgraded laptop works fine when I take the laptop home and connect.
So what could be the problem? I have not had such an issue with installations and upgrades for 40.5 versions of Fedora (the 0.5 is for RH9 that I think I used mid-2003 to late 2003 before Fedora Core 1). How do I troubleshoot this?
Does the University use a Captive Portal?
My apologies, but what is a captive portal. Btw, I can not stress this enough, but this was not a problem before the upgrade: indeed, the upgrade itself happened on that same network (on WiFi).
Many thanks again, and best wishes, Ranjan
Jeff
users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
On Thu, 2024-05-23 at 17:32 -0500, Ranjan Maitra via users wrote:
I have a strange issue after upgrading a laptop (Dell XPS 13, 2013 edition). That is that I am connected (whether through WiFi or ethernet cable) to a university network which claims after the upgrade that the laptop is no longer registered. I went through the registration process again through the browser (and was told: why are you registering this machine again, it is registered, simply restart the network/reboot) but the problem does not go away. I upgraded a desktop on the same ethernet switch and this problem did not go show up there (I am using that to write this email).
I suppose we need to know what "registration" entails.
For some networks, it's simply going to be the DHCP server assigning you an IP to a MAC address it knows about (hardware details about your network). This will get messed up if your hardware supplies random MAC addresses each time it makes a connection.
For some networks, you login via a browser, and it does some kind of token exchange with their network that authorises you and they remember some network details about you. Again it could be the MAC or they may simply associate the token with your current IP address. This could get upset by things like your web browser not storing cookies, script blocking, or something stuck in its cache. Going through web browser settings might be a good thing (checking what's allowed) and perhaps clearing your cache (you can do that without losing stored passwords, etc). The cache just stores what you can see as web pages, so you can go back and forth through a site without redownloading each page.
Tim,
Thanks!
On Fri May24'24 01:03:08PM, Community Support for Fedora Users wrote:
From: Tim via users users@lists.fedoraproject.org Date: Fri, 24 May 2024 13:03:08 +0930 To: Community support for Fedora users users@lists.fedoraproject.org Cc: Ranjan Maitra mlmaitra@gmx.com, Tim ignored_mailbox@yahoo.com.au Reply-To: Community support for Fedora users users@lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: F40: strange network issue after upgrade of laptop from F39
On Thu, 2024-05-23 at 17:32 -0500, Ranjan Maitra via users wrote:
I have a strange issue after upgrading a laptop (Dell XPS 13, 2013 edition). That is that I am connected (whether through WiFi or ethernet cable) to a university network which claims after the upgrade that the laptop is no longer registered. I went through the registration process again through the browser (and was told: why are you registering this machine again, it is registered, simply restart the network/reboot) but the problem does not go away. I upgraded a desktop on the same ethernet switch and this problem did not go show up there (I am using that to write this email).
I suppose we need to know what "registration" entails.
For some networks, it's simply going to be the DHCP server assigning you an IP to a MAC address it knows about (hardware details about your network). This will get messed up if your hardware supplies random MAC addresses each time it makes a connection.
I suspect it is this above, since this is a one-time deal, only when a computer is set up for the first time (but done through the browser that one time). After that, it never asks for registration again unless the computer in question has not connected for months (in which case it has to be validated).
For some networks, you login via a browser, and it does some kind of token exchange with their network that authorises you and they remember some network details about you. Again it could be the MAC or they may simply associate the token with your current IP address. This could get upset by things like your web browser not storing cookies, script blocking, or something stuck in its cache. Going through web browser settings might be a good thing (checking what's allowed) and perhaps clearing your cache (you can do that without losing stored passwords, etc). The cache just stores what you can see as web pages, so you can go back and forth through a site without redownloading each page.
I don't know if this matters but I do not need to keep the browser on after that first-time registration. Also, I never store my cache so once the browser is shut down, the cache is deleted.
Thanks very much again!
Best wishes, Ranjan
Tim:
For some networks, it's simply going to be the DHCP server assigning you an IP to a MAC address it knows about (hardware details about your network). This will get messed up if your hardware supplies random MAC addresses each time it makes a connection.
Ranjan Maitra:
I suspect it is this above, since this is a one-time deal, only when a computer is set up for the first time (but done through the browser that one time). After that, it never asks for registration again unless the computer in question has not connected for months (in which case it has to be validated).
When you connect to a network using DHCP, your device tries asking for the same IP it had last time. Their server *may* honour that. But I think you'd get a different IP each time unless they had a vast reserve of spare IPs to allocate each person the same one each time. Though this shouldn't be an authentication problem, DHCP is supposed to be able to handle changed addresses.
What the DHCP server uses to fingerprint you, to identify your device as the same device each time you connect, can be a combination of things, and they can be remembered for as long (or short) as they want their DHCP server to hold the data:
Your network interface's MAC (which will be different for cabled ethernet and wireless on the same device, and is randomly changed with some hardware, and randomised by some software configurations). Each MAC is supposed to be unique, though there have been cases of network hardware with duplicated "unique" ids. And since some devices use randomised MACs, there is a chance that it might pick the same MAC as someone else on the network. That can cause problems.
Your network configuration can also supply another kind of ID as a kind of fingerprint. A DHCP server can use that to ID you across different visits. This is an optional thing, many clients don't supply that info to the server.
Between the data of your MAC and another unique ID, your device can be recognised as previously authorised, and considered still authorised (if their system works that way, and your info stays the same each time). Various ISPs work that way, the first thing connected to them during the set-up process (your modem or router) is used to authenticate you as a valid customer. If you change your router, you may have to call customer support to get it "allowed." Likewise if you have multiple devices that directly connect to a network, at different times.
I'd look through network configuration options related to privacy or randomised MAC (same thing, different titles).
Another thing that springs to mind is IPv6.
I don't know if this matters but I do not need to keep the browser on after that first-time registration. Also, I never store my cache so once the browser is shut down, the cache is deleted.
That sounds right. Once you're authenticated into the system, that should be the end of the process. You may have to authenticate each time you login, but shouldn't have to maintain some kind of keep-alive through the browser for a session, that'd be a daft way to maintain a network (not that that stopped some early ISPs from requiring some kind of heartbeat from their clients).
You could have to do the authentication each time you connect to their network. That's a reasonable thing to expect, and normally a good security measure (it stops someone nicking a device then using it in your name). Though can be a pain with wireless hardware, connections come and go with them, even though you're intending it to be one continuous session.
On Fri, May 24, 2024 at 10:31 AM Tim via users users@lists.fedoraproject.org wrote:
Tim:
For some networks, it's simply going to be the DHCP server assigning you an IP to a MAC address it knows about (hardware details about your network). This will get messed up if your hardware supplies random MAC addresses each time it makes a connection.
Ranjan Maitra:
I suspect it is this above, since this is a one-time deal, only when a computer is set up for the first time (but done through the browser that one time). After that, it never asks for registration again unless the computer in question has not connected for months (in which case it has to be validated).
When you connect to a network using DHCP, your device tries asking for the same IP it had last time. Their server *may* honour that. But I think you'd get a different IP each time unless they had a vast reserve of spare IPs to allocate each person the same one each time. Though this shouldn't be an authentication problem, DHCP is supposed to be able to handle changed addresses.
What the DHCP server uses to fingerprint you, to identify your device as the same device each time you connect, can be a combination of things, and they can be remembered for as long (or short) as they want their DHCP server to hold the data:
Your network interface's MAC (which will be different for cabled ethernet and wireless on the same device, and is randomly changed with some hardware, and randomised by some software configurations). Each MAC is supposed to be unique, though there have been cases of network hardware with duplicated "unique" ids. And since some devices use randomised MACs, there is a chance that it might pick the same MAC as someone else on the network. That can cause problems.
Your network configuration can also supply another kind of ID as a kind of fingerprint. A DHCP server can use that to ID you across different visits. This is an optional thing, many clients don't supply that info to the server.
Between the data of your MAC and another unique ID, your device can be recognised as previously authorised, and considered still authorised (if their system works that way, and your info stays the same each time). Various ISPs work that way, the first thing connected to them during the set-up process (your modem or router) is used to authenticate you as a valid customer. If you change your router, you may have to call customer support to get it "allowed." Likewise if you have multiple devices that directly connect to a network, at different times.
I'd look through network configuration options related to privacy or randomised MAC (same thing, different titles).
Another thing that springs to mind is IPv6.
I don't know if this matters but I do not need to keep the browser on after that first-time registration. Also, I never store my cache so once the browser is shut down, the cache is deleted.
That sounds right. Once you're authenticated into the system, that should be the end of the process. You may have to authenticate each time you login, but shouldn't have to maintain some kind of keep-alive through the browser for a session, that'd be a daft way to maintain a network (not that that stopped some early ISPs from requiring some kind of heartbeat from their clients).
You could have to do the authentication each time you connect to their network. That's a reasonable thing to expect, and normally a good security measure (it stops someone nicking a device then using it in your name). Though can be a pain with wireless hardware, connections come and go with them, even though you're intending it to be one continuous session.
This smells of Captive Portal and MAC Randomizations.
I think Patrick O'Callaghan was spot on: OP needs to talk to his admins because he does not know if he is in a captive portal system, and OP does not know his network manager settings. Someone with knowledge of the systems will be better positioned to help OP.
Jeff
On Fri, 2024-05-24 at 11:02 -0400, Jeffrey Walton wrote:
This smells of Captive Portal and MAC Randomizations.
I had a ISP-supplied router that behaved that way. I'd continuously have to re-authenticate my phone with it. And I don't mean while going around the house using it, you could spend hours in one spot just reading the web a few metres away from the router, and it'd drop connection on you again and again. I stopped using it, it was such a pain.
This kind of authentication thing is made worse in a home, because these days there are so many things connected via WiFi that don't have a browser, there's no way for them to re-authenticate themselves.
On Thu, 2024-05-23 at 17:32 -0500, Ranjan Maitra via users wrote:
Hi,
I have a strange issue after upgrading a laptop (Dell XPS 13, 2013 edition). That is that I am connected (whether through WiFi or ethernet cable) to a university network which claims after the upgrade that the laptop is no longer registered. I went through the registration process again through the browser (and was told: why are you registering this machine again, it is registered, simply restart the network/reboot) but the problem does not go away. I upgraded a desktop on the same ethernet switch and this problem did not go show up there (I am using that to write this email).
I should mention that the network on this upgraded laptop works fine when I take the laptop home and connect.
So what could be the problem? I have not had such an issue with installations and upgrades for 40.5 versions of Fedora (the 0.5 is for RH9 that I think I used mid-2003 to late 2003 before Fedora Core 1). How do I troubleshoot this?
I´d suggest you talk to the university network admins.
poc
On 24/05/2024 11.38, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Thu, 2024-05-23 at 17:32 -0500, Ranjan Maitra via users wrote:
Hi,
I have a strange issue after upgrading a laptop (Dell XPS 13, 2013 edition). That is that I am connected (whether through WiFi or ethernet cable) to a university network which claims after the upgrade that the laptop is no longer registered. I went through the registration process again through the browser (and was told: why are you registering this machine again, it is registered, simply restart the network/reboot) but the problem does not go away. I upgraded a desktop on the same ethernet switch and this problem did not go show up there (I am using that to write this email).
I should mention that the network on this upgraded laptop works fine when I take the laptop home and connect.
So what could be the problem? I have not had such an issue with installations and upgrades for 40.5 versions of Fedora (the 0.5 is for RH9 that I think I used mid-2003 to late 2003 before Fedora Core 1). How do I troubleshoot this?
I´d suggest you talk to the university network admins.
Probably the new way in which Fedora is handling MAC addresses. I believe it is now supposed to be random, but stable per SSID, but I do not remember any details. So it may be that you're using a different MAC address than before, and the university doesn't recognize it.
On Fri, 2024-05-24 at 11:52 +0200, Sjoerd Mullender via users wrote:
On 24/05/2024 11.38, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Thu, 2024-05-23 at 17:32 -0500, Ranjan Maitra via users wrote:
Hi,
I have a strange issue after upgrading a laptop (Dell XPS 13, 2013 edition). That is that I am connected (whether through WiFi or ethernet cable) to a university network which claims after the upgrade that the laptop is no longer registered. I went through the registration process again through the browser (and was told: why are you registering this machine again, it is registered, simply restart the network/reboot) but the problem does not go away. I upgraded a desktop on the same ethernet switch and this problem did not go show up there (I am using that to write this email).
I should mention that the network on this upgraded laptop works fine when I take the laptop home and connect.
So what could be the problem? I have not had such an issue with installations and upgrades for 40.5 versions of Fedora (the 0.5 is for RH9 that I think I used mid-2003 to late 2003 before Fedora Core 1). How do I troubleshoot this?
I´d suggest you talk to the university network admins.
Probably the new way in which Fedora is handling MAC addresses. I believe it is now supposed to be random, but stable per SSID, but I do not remember any details. So it may be that you're using a different MAC address than before, and the university doesn't recognize it.
Again, talk to the admins. They should be able to tell you. However since many mobile devices use randomised MAC addresses they must have a way of dealing with this, assuming that is indeed the problem.
poc
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Jeffrey Walton -
Patrick O'Callaghan -
Ranjan Maitra -
Samuel Sieb -
Sjoerd Mullender -
Tim